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(MSN) NewsFlash Russian troops invade the Crimean region of Ukraine. This will not end well   (news.msn.com ) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, Crimean, Carnegie Moscow Center, Russians, Ukraine, Vladimir Putin, South Ossetia, Russian troops, Yulia Tymoshenko  
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9529 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2014 at 5:59 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2014-03-01 08:02:59 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: IronTom:

A-10 Warthog?  We are cancelling them all and getting rid of them so EBT users can have more lobster.

Ignoring the jab at social services, does the A-10 still serve a purpose today? Legitimate question, I have no idea.


There are few systems more adept at killing ground armor and providing CAS than the A-10.

Too slow to do much else, but damn good at what it does.
 
2014-03-01 08:03:31 PM  

CanisNoir: Two different times, and two different power structures in Europe. The US is no longer a the solitary giant straddling the globe and this particular brawl is between Russia and the European Union. I don't know why so many people are bagging on President Obama; there's really very little aside from Saber rattling, suggestions and threatening trade embargos that he can do. The European Union needs to lead on this one and I think Putin is reacting more because of his impression on what *they* will do, not so much what Obama will do.

I disagree with most, if not all of Obama's domestic policies, but aside from a few mis-steps here and there, I have to say, he's done well on the foriegn policy front.

We do have a vested interest in this, but only so much as America has always had a vested interest in Eastern Europe and the balance of power accross the pond. I'm curious to see Europes reaction now that International Forces have been offered to protect Ukrainian Russians and Putin said no thanks; that's the more telling signal than the fact that Russian troops crossed the border.


Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.
 
2014-03-01 08:04:18 PM  
Obama will meet with Putin,and come back waving a treaty and say something about "peace in our time...."
 
2014-03-01 08:05:18 PM  
theflickcast.com
WHO HAS THE CON?

/grabbing popcorn
//and vodka
///and possibly a flak jacket
 
2014-03-01 08:05:21 PM  
thenypost.files.wordpress.com
It used to be so funny
 
2014-03-01 08:05:33 PM  
Cry me a Crimean River
 
2014-03-01 08:06:44 PM  

StickyBunBandit: Obama will meet with Putin,and come back waving a treaty and say something about "peace in our time...."


Is there a word for hyperbole that is so hyperbolic that it almost tears a rift in the space-time continuum?
 
2014-03-01 08:07:12 PM  

SlothB77: To lord_baull shiat. I'd rather have the guy with the unoriginal comeback line than the guy who was right too.



Good thing this isn't middle school.
 
2014-03-01 08:07:39 PM  

iron_city_ap: LordJiro: You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.

As long as they respect the sovereignty of the region, I can't complain. If they try to claim it as Russian soil, then I have an issue.


At that point, it's too late
 
2014-03-01 08:07:55 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So for Sarah Palin.... do we start calling calling her "Nostradumbass"... or is just a blind squirrel thing?


Well, since she actually got something right (out of the several hundred times she's been wrong), the Republitrolls are hailing her as the new Henry Kissinger.
 
2014-03-01 08:08:22 PM  

Keith Dudemeister: StickyBunBandit: Obama will meet with Putin,and come back waving a treaty and say something about "peace in our time...."

Is there a word for hyperbole that is so hyperbolic that it almost tears a rift in the space-time continuum?


What happens when the devil loses?
 
2014-03-01 08:08:36 PM  

Tarl3k: LordJiro: You mean like the mostly-Russian populace of Crimea asked them to?

And really, you're surprised that the Russians want to make sure they don't lose their main port on the Black Sea?

I'm no fan of Pooty-Poot, but this is not nearly as big an issue as people are whining about.

 Exactly.  When they invade Kiev, then shiat goes down.  Until then, let's keep our noses out of this one...


By then there'll be no point to putting our noses in.
They've got boots on the ground in all the major ports and outer cities. Its a matter of hours, if it isn't over already.

/The cameras go out, the parlement and protesters disappear.
/You'll see nothing but nervously smiling Ukrainians waving Russian flags by monday.
 
2014-03-01 08:12:02 PM  

Boojum2k: rkiller1: Fun fact: the Ural mountains, which are west of (The) Ukraine, divide Europe and Asia.One of the few things I recall from sixth grade.

Go back to 6th grade. They are in fact East of Ukraine.
http://www.freeworldmaps.net/europe/index.html
http://www.freeworldmaps.net/russia/ural-mountains/map.html

They run roughly north-south through Russia, ending south in Kazakhstan.



Good job 'Spainin' to him...... the Moor you know!
:-)
 
2014-03-01 08:13:00 PM  

mongbiohazard: I don't know if they're going to bother with the rest of the Ukraine, but I know they aren't going to be giving up their naval and air assets in the Black Sea fleet. Not without a fight, and they have more military might than the Ukraine does, especially if it's in turmoil right now.

What are the Europeans going to do about it? They should certainly make sure Putin doesn't pull another Georgia, but I don't know if they really want to escalate militarily and risk global or regional war. But they certainly shouldn't just stand by and watch poor Ukraine get stomped on. Maybe they support Ukraine's military with European forces in the rest of the country while staying out of Crimea and offering Putin a bit of a diplomatic olive branch in the meantime. Like, "Hey, we understand this mess has you nervous about your bases in Crimea. We know they're very important to you, so how about you keep peace there, we keep peace here - just until the Ukrainians get their shiat together with their new government and reaffirm their commitment to you in regard to their bases there. Then once everything's settled we all pull our forces out, deal?"


I believe they will try to annex the rest of Ukraine unless more forceful measures are threaten. Yes Crimea is the immediate goal however russia wil NOT allow Ukraine to become a EU state nevermind NATO say 10-15 yrs the road. I can guarantee you Putin will NEVER allow the US to say put an  ABM shield or have NATO bases in Ukraine. It's akin to Russia putting something similar in Mexico. Even the most liberal and pacifist POTUS will not allow that.

For some reason no one here has brought those points up.
 
2014-03-01 08:13:41 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So for Sarah Palin.... do we start calling calling her "Nostradumbass"... or is just a blind squirrel thing?

Well, since she actually got something right (out of the several hundred times she's been wrong), the Republitrolls are hailing her as the new Henry Kissinger.


actually, we should find whoever fed her that line and bring him or her into the war room.

Still wondering what people think Messrs McCain and Romney would have done differently.

/I already know the answer - it will be some bullshiat about being clearly tougher so Putin would have toed the line
 
2014-03-01 08:15:10 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: mongbiohazard: I don't know if they're going to bother with the rest of the Ukraine, but I know they aren't going to be giving up their naval and air assets in the Black Sea fleet. Not without a fight, and they have more military might than the Ukraine does, especially if it's in turmoil right now.

What are the Europeans going to do about it? They should certainly make sure Putin doesn't pull another Georgia, but I don't know if they really want to escalate militarily and risk global or regional war. But they certainly shouldn't just stand by and watch poor Ukraine get stomped on. Maybe they support Ukraine's military with European forces in the rest of the country while staying out of Crimea and offering Putin a bit of a diplomatic olive branch in the meantime. Like, "Hey, we understand this mess has you nervous about your bases in Crimea. We know they're very important to you, so how about you keep peace there, we keep peace here - just until the Ukrainians get their shiat together with their new government and reaffirm their commitment to you in regard to their bases there. Then once everything's settled we all pull our forces out, deal?"

I believe they will try to annex the rest of Ukraine unless more forceful measures are threaten. Yes Crimea is the immediate goal however russia wil NOT allow Ukraine to become a EU state nevermind NATO say 10-15 yrs the road. I can guarantee you Putin will NEVER allow the US to say put an  ABM shield or have NATO bases in Ukraine. It's akin to Russia putting something similar in Mexico. Even the most liberal and pacifist POTUS will not allow that.

For some reason no one here has brought those points up.


On the other hand, we haven't tried repeatedly in the previous 200 years to wipe the Mexican people off the face of the earth. Sure, we had a couple wars, but we didn't try to go all Final Solution on them like Russia has tried to do repeatedly with both the Crimean Tatars and Ukrainian people.
 
2014-03-01 08:18:07 PM  
 
2014-03-01 08:19:07 PM  

Keith Dudemeister: Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.


Sorry, but the narcassim of Superpower Hangover combined with pure partisan hackery really bothers me. I guess part of the problem is that us Americans have not had a form of "Ethnic Nationalism" since the Civil War so it's difficult for a lot of us to wrap our noggins around the way Europe sees itself.
Russia crossing the border to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine is not an anomoly in world history, in fact, that kind of action is fairly common. I though Obama's offer of International Forces was a smart choice; it makes Putin rightly look like "the bad guy" for refusing the help in favor of increasing tensions and looking like an aggressor.
Now we just need to take a step back, a little breather and see which way our allies are going to move and then do what we can to assist them. I'm far from an expert in that region, but from where I'm sitting, I don't see any reason why the US should be taking a "leadership" role in trying to solve this problem.
 
2014-03-01 08:20:14 PM  

sleeps in trees: shower_in_my_socks: We have about as much control over Russia invading Crimea as Russia would have over us invading Juarez, Mexico. And about as much of an interest in stopping it as they would, too.

I know the chicken hawk neocons in this country go absolutely apeshiat whenever another country does something militarily because in their world America must ALWAYS do something to stop it. But most of those nutjobs couldn't point Crimea out on a map, so they can eff off as always.


Can I just say this was probably the most balanced comment I've read all day.  The US has enough on it's plate.  Let someone on the other side of the pond deal with it.  If it really is offensive, sanctions would be in order.  Stop being the world police and look after your own country.  We need a strong, united US that does not have its politicians willing to let it burn to make a point.


SOMUCHTHIS. We don't need to deploy troops and act like the World Police every time Putin waves his penis around - let's concentrate on our own sh*t for the time being.
 
2014-03-01 08:22:32 PM  

OgreMagi: stratagos: OgreMagi: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

We have a treaty obligation to help the Ukraine protect their border.  I personally don't want us involved in another war, but if we don't do something our international standing will be turned to shiat (more than it is now).

We could start by immediately declaring an embargo on all business with Russia.  If we can get the other NATO members involved, it might actually get Putin's attention.  What to do next, I don't know.  But I'm a system administrator, not a diplomat who is supposed to know what to do.  I do know, however, that doing nothing is not going to help.

Wait, what? We have a treaty with them? They're in NATO?

In 1994 the US and the UK, as part of NATO, signed a treaty with the Ukraine to help them defend their borders.  In exchange, the Ukraine gave up all their nukes.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.  That treaty is still valid.


Yes it's still valid but it's not a treaty.  It's a memorandum, but it still caries the weight international law.   Not that that caries much actual weight.
 
2014-03-01 08:27:13 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Yes Crimea is the immediate goal however russia wil NOT allow Ukraine to become a EU state


Exactly the issue. It's up in the air what happens to Ukraine 'proper', but that warm port at Sevastopol and the navy presence in the Black Sea are...how you say in American?...not negotiable.
 
2014-03-01 08:27:29 PM  
I always wake up first thing and wonder 'Whats Happening in Crimea?'
 
2014-03-01 08:31:49 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.

If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.

Conversely, it could be said that you've just made an argument for marginalizing the problem.

I wonder how the women in Bosnia would have appreciated your indifference.


I''m not marginalizing anything.  If bullets, shells, and bombs start flying in the middle of Europe there will be more lethal threats to worry about and I assure you it will be gender indiscriminate.
 
2014-03-01 08:33:10 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: sleeps in trees: shower_in_my_socks: We have about as much control over Russia invading Crimea as Russia would have over us invading Juarez, Mexico. And about as much of an interest in stopping it as they would, too.

I know the chicken hawk neocons in this country go absolutely apeshiat whenever another country does something militarily because in their world America must ALWAYS do something to stop it. But most of those nutjobs couldn't point Crimea out on a map, so they can eff off as always.


Can I just say this was probably the most balanced comment I've read all day.  The US has enough on it's plate.  Let someone on the other side of the pond deal with it.  If it really is offensive, sanctions would be in order.  Stop being the world police and look after your own country.  We need a strong, united US that does not have its politicians willing to let it burn to make a point.

SOMUCHTHIS. We don't need to deploy troops and act like the World Police every time Putin waves his penis around - let's concentrate on our own sh*t for the time being.


And it'll die down soon.  I guarantee 100% that Russia has ZERO interest in invading or annexing Ukraine, they'll keep them at arm's length.  Ukraine has the Tatars, who are Russia-hating Muslims, and about 12% of the population.  The last thing Russia wants is another Muslim group causing as many headaches as the Chechens.
 
2014-03-01 08:33:47 PM  
I still think we should send in the Light Brigade.
 
2014-03-01 08:35:56 PM  
Place you bottlecaps on the table!
upload.wikimedia.org
VS
upload.wikimedia.org
Winner takes all!
 
2014-03-01 08:35:58 PM  

AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.

If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.

Conversely, it could be said that you've just made an argument for marginalizing the problem.

I wonder how the women in Bosnia would have appreciated your indifference.

I''m not marginalizing anything.  If bullets, shells, and bombs start flying in the middle of Europe there will be more lethal threats to worry about and I assure you it will be gender indiscriminate.


Couldn't possibly hit the fan that hard could it?
I have only been half paying attention...
No shots fired yet?
Are you expecting bloodshed?
 
2014-03-01 08:41:52 PM  

tallen702: Subby, and for that matter, most of the US and US news outlets don't seem to realize that Russia did not in fact invade the Crimea, it's hard to invade something when, you know, your military has been there for almost 100 years or so. The treaties between Russia and Ukraine actually allow for free movement of Russian forces within the Crimean peninsula, legally, these guys are just out taking a stroll and loitering until they forcibly wrest control of something from the Ukrainian gov't, which they haven't. Pro-Russian Ukrainians haven't resisted, shots haven't been fired, they're essentially "occupying" the space by loitering.

Now, where things will get interesting is if they move OUT of the Crimea and into areas where they aren't allowed. Then, and only then, is there reason to expect shiat to go down in a bad way.


It's primarily about influence over resource streams and pricing - natural gas:   http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42405.pdf  (2013 precis)  Ukraine owes the Russians at least 7 billion (take-or-pay contracts for nat gas).  Ukraine has aging nat gas pipeline infrastructure and the Russians have already completed one line directly to Germany and are planning another to the South (both bypass Ukraine).  Ukraine needs the money to keep their pipelines up to snuff -but Russia pretty much will have them begging (don't think the West will pony up - do you?).  And, let's say, the longer the tension goes on, the more money there is to be made by `speculators' who knew when the Crimea would be occupied (probably Vlad & friends are playing with the market). Think of Russia's Gazprom standing in relation to several of our NATO allies, as OPEC was to the U.S. in the early`70's.

If I was Putin, I'd take a page from Adolph's Czech trick and arrange for Spetsnaz, posing as rabid Ukranian Nationalists, to damage gas pipelines passing through Western Ukraine, that move Russian Gas directly to their Western European customers (unhappy EU rate payers & savior Russians, eh?).
 
2014-03-01 08:43:15 PM  

Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.



It's not much, but how about keeping our $70 million in Foreign Aid we give Russia? How about playing hardball with ANYTHING Russia wants at the UN? This should also be about Russia's human rights record and their anti homosexual bigotry.Let's do something. Saying Russia is gonna make people upset in a speech is utterly useless...
 
2014-03-01 08:43:25 PM  

johnny_vegas: Meanwhile

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 800x448]


Mother of God.  It's Beautiful.
 
2014-03-01 08:44:18 PM  
Deny them our precious bodily fluids
static.yts.re
 
2014-03-01 08:46:59 PM  

Crazy Lee: tallen702: Subby, and for that matter, most of the US and US news outlets don't seem to realize that Russia did not in fact invade the Crimea, it's hard to invade something when, you know, your military has been there for almost 100 years or so. The treaties between Russia and Ukraine actually allow for free movement of Russian forces within the Crimean peninsula, legally, these guys are just out taking a stroll and loitering until they forcibly wrest control of something from the Ukrainian gov't, which they haven't. Pro-Russian Ukrainians haven't resisted, shots haven't been fired, they're essentially "occupying" the space by loitering.

Now, where things will get interesting is if they move OUT of the Crimea and into areas where they aren't allowed. Then, and only then, is there reason to expect shiat to go down in a bad way.

It's primarily about influence over resource streams and pricing - natural gas:   http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42405.pdf  (2013 precis)  Ukraine owes the Russians at least 7 billion (take-or-pay contracts for nat gas).  Ukraine has aging nat gas pipeline infrastructure and the Russians have already completed one line directly to Germany and are planning another to the South (both bypass Ukraine).  Ukraine needs the money to keep their pipelines up to snuff -but Russia pretty much will have them begging (don't think the West will pony up - do you?).  And, let's say, the longer the tension goes on, the more money there is to be made by `speculators' who knew when the Crimea would be occupied (probably Vlad & friends are playing with the market). Think of Russia's Gazprom standing in relation to several of our NATO allies, as OPEC was to the U.S. in the early`70's.

If I was Putin, I'd take a page from Adolph's Czech trick and arrange for Spetsnaz, posing as rabid Ukranian Nationalists, to damage gas pipelines passing through Western Ukraine, that move Russian Gas directly to their Western European customers (unhappy EU rate payers & savior ...


+1 tin foil
 
2014-03-01 08:47:27 PM  

p4p3rm4t3: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.

If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.

Conversely, it could be said that you've just made an argument for marginalizing the problem.

I wonder how the women in Bosnia would have appreciated your indifference.

I''m not marginalizing anything.  If bullets, shells, and bombs start flying in the middle of Europe there will be more lethal threats to worry about and I assure you it will be gender indiscriminate.

Couldn't possibly hit the fan that hard could it?
I have only been half paying attention...
No shots fired yet?
Are you expecting bloodshed?


Russia has occupied Crimea without provocation
Ukraine has appealed to NATO to honor its 94 treaty guaranteeing their borders
UN, EU, and NATO have denounced Russia
Russian presence has increased to 6,000 troops
Ukraine has mobilized
Russian "wargames" are being conducted on the Ukraine border with 150,000 troops
Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia have invoked article 4 of the NATO treaty only invoked 4 times in history.

It's pretty bad.  Any match in this powderkeg could lead to very nasty outcomes.
 
2014-03-01 08:50:11 PM  
If only Sarah Palin were President, this wouldn't be happening!
 
2014-03-01 08:51:06 PM  
Attempt no landing on Europa.
 
2014-03-01 08:51:10 PM  

Nabb1: Lord_Baull: Nabb1: Lord_Baull: Hobodeluxe: ksdanj: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Yes, please elaborate Nabb1...

I'm going to guess he wants exactly the opposite of whatever Obama does.

they're reactionary. they don't take positions before Obama does.


Nabb1: ManateeGag: Nabb1: I guess the speech didn't work.

What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

I don't know, yet. Did you expect the speech to work?


Lolz. "I don't know what Obama should do, I'm just against everything he's done so far."

That's what you got out of that? Man, you guys are too sensitive about that guy.

Numerous calls for you to explain post. No response. I'm open ears.

I was eating dinner with my wife and kids. Do you really expect me to drop that to meet your demand for me to explain myself? Who the f*ck do you think you are? You think you're so goddamned special that you DEMAND an explanation for every little sarcastic remark that offends your delicate political sensibilities and then feign indignation because they don't immediately drop everything and cater to your whims? Here's my explanation: get over yourself.



i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-01 08:52:52 PM  

AngryDragon: Russia has occupied Crimea without provocationUkraine has appealed to NATO to honor its 94 treaty guaranteeing their bordersUN, EU, and NATO have denounced RussiaRussian presence has increased to 6,000 troopsUkraine has mobilizedRussian "wargames" are being conducted on the Ukraine border with 150,000 troopsLatvia, Lithuania, Estonia have invoked article 4 of the NATO treaty only invoked 4 times in history.It's pretty bad. Any match in this powderkeg could lead to very nasty outcomes.


NATO made no agreement with Ukraine that's applicable in this situation.  Contrary to popular news sites neither has any country in the west.  The only thing that is applicable is the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., Britain and Russia promised to not mess with Ukraine in trade for denuclearizing.  That ship has sailed, Russia broke the agreement.  Now Ukraine has legal right to re-arm.

If they make it through this rotation, it would be stupid not to.
 
2014-03-01 08:53:14 PM  

rwhamann: Still wondering what people think Messrs McCain and Romney would have done differently.


Cut taxes and invaded Syria.
 
2014-03-01 08:55:22 PM  
This is the end.

Not because of this. Because some dumbass god left people in charge. The planet would have been better off left to llamas.

I honestly don't know why people bother fighting. Human stupidity is universal. Hug it out until you suffocate.
 
2014-03-01 08:55:52 PM  

AngryDragon: p4p3rm4t3: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.

If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.

Conversely, it could be said that you've just made an argument for marginalizing the problem.

I wonder how the women in Bosnia would have appreciated your indifference.

I''m not marginalizing anything.  If bullets, shells, and bombs start flying in the middle of Europe there will be more lethal threats to worry about and I assure you it will be gender indiscriminate.

Couldn't possibly hit the fan that hard could it?
I have only been half paying attention...
No shots fired yet?
Are you expecting bloodshed?

Russia has occupied Crimea without provocation
Ukraine has appealed to NATO to honor its 94 treaty guaranteeing their borders
UN, EU, and NATO have denounced Russia
Russian presence has increased to 6,000 troops
Ukraine has mobilized
Russian "wargames" are being conducted on the Ukraine border with 150,000 troops
Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia have invoked article 4 of the NATO treaty only invoked 4 times in history.

It's pretty bad.  Any match in this powderkeg could lead to very nasty outcomes.

A few 20 year old signatures... Nice...
Does Russia have any treaties with Ukraine?

 
2014-03-01 08:56:49 PM  
Now that I reflect, actually Romney would have cut taxes and gone yachting while his "blind" trusts gutted a few more companies and laid off a few hundred thousand more people, and his gang of Viziers ran the Syria invasion in his name.
 
2014-03-01 09:00:03 PM  
Place your napkins on the table

i.telegraph.co.uk
vs
www.sargento.com

Winner takes all!!
 
2014-03-01 09:12:00 PM  

oxnard_montalvo: Place your napkins on the table

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]
vs
[www.sargento.com image 525x350]

Winner takes all!!


My bet's on the one on the bottom.  It's definitely more dangerous and harder to detect.
 
2014-03-01 09:12:25 PM  
Oh boy the same thread morning and evening. Is this one filled weal Farbama,s weak and we should totes go to war with Russia over this.
 
2014-03-01 09:12:46 PM  

p4p3rm4t3: AngryDragon: p4p3rm4t3: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: Agent Smiths Laugh: Nope, and it'll be the women who suffer the most. As usual.

There will be international outrage over all the rape and murder that will ensue.

And not a damn thing will change or be done about it.

If this is your biggest concern in this particular scenario, you may want to widen your blinders just a tad.

Conversely, it could be said that you've just made an argument for marginalizing the problem.

I wonder how the women in Bosnia would have appreciated your indifference.

I''m not marginalizing anything.  If bullets, shells, and bombs start flying in the middle of Europe there will be more lethal threats to worry about and I assure you it will be gender indiscriminate.

Couldn't possibly hit the fan that hard could it?
I have only been half paying attention...
No shots fired yet?
Are you expecting bloodshed?

Russia has occupied Crimea without provocation
Ukraine has appealed to NATO to honor its 94 treaty guaranteeing their borders
UN, EU, and NATO have denounced Russia
Russian presence has increased to 6,000 troops
Ukraine has mobilized
Russian "wargames" are being conducted on the Ukraine border with 150,000 troops
Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia have invoked article 4 of the NATO treaty only invoked 4 times in history.

It's pretty bad.  Any match in this powderkeg could lead to very nasty outcomes.

A few 20 year old signatures... Nice...
Does Russia have any treaties with Ukraine?


Not as of two days ago.
 
2014-03-01 09:16:32 PM  

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: So for Sarah Palin.... do we start calling calling her "Nostradumbass"... or is just a blind squirrel thing?


Well a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
2014-03-01 09:18:14 PM  
We need to stay out of this. Let them sort it out.
 
2014-03-01 09:19:43 PM  

iq_in_binary: ongbok: jvl: ManateeGag: What, exactly, do you want the US to do about it?

Difficulty: As a condition for Ukraine giving up its Nukes, the US promised to do something about it.

The Russians wouldn't be invading a nuke-armed Ukraine. This is our fault, so hand-wringing won't cut it.

The Russians will probably try to play this as "the old gov't is legit, so the US should invade the rest of the Ukraine and force them to unify with the legitimate Ukraine."  Motherbearfarkers.

No it didn't. The agreement was that the U.S, UK and Russia would respect its borders and stay out of its business. As far as I know there isn't any provision saying the U.S has to be Captain Save a Hoe, especially when it seems that an area of the country is cozying up to Russia

Then what do we tell all the other non-nuclear signatories of the NPT? Ukraine had the third largest stockpile in the world. Russia would NOT have done this had Ukraine decided to accede as a nuclear power. We promised them autonomy and secure borders in exchange for surrender of their stockpile.

If we back out of that agreement, we're basically telling all the other signatories in the ex bloc that the treaty isn't worth the toilet paper they wipe their asses with. What leg would we have to stand on if other ex-bloc countries decide it's not worth it and backs out of the NPT and starts developing arms to stave off aggression?


That may be the most reasonable argument I've heard all day promoting a strong US response but Russia is not threatening the integrity of Ukrain., and truthfully they brook that treaety way back when they cut of the oil to Ukraine and hence Europe to influence politics but the US was occupoed and didn't notice but we don't want our insurgancy buget to go to waste do we US? or Russia? Because on this all sides are full of shiat.
 
2014-03-01 09:19:53 PM  

CanisNoir: Keith Dudemeister: Dude, stop being reasonable and realistic about this whole thing. You rational summary is ruining it for everyone.

Sorry, but the narcassim of Superpower Hangover combined with pure partisan hackery really bothers me. I guess part of the problem is that us Americans have not had a form of "Ethnic Nationalism" since the Civil War so it's difficult for a lot of us to wrap our noggins around the way Europe sees itself.
Russia crossing the border to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine is not an anomoly in world history, in fact, that kind of action is fairly common. I though Obama's offer of International Forces was a smart choice; it makes Putin rightly look like "the bad guy" for refusing the help in favor of increasing tensions and looking like an aggressor.
Now we just need to take a step back, a little breather and see which way our allies are going to move and then do what we can to assist them. I'm far from an expert in that region, but from where I'm sitting, I don't see any reason why the US should be taking a "leadership" role in trying to solve this problem.


Yep, there's a huge question that no one seems to be asking, which, in Fark terms, is "WHAR EUROPE?" The silence from Western Europe is deafening. There are lots of fingers being pointed at Obama but it seems like Germany (one country away from Ukraine), for example, has a much more vested interest in resolving this peacefully.
 
2014-03-01 09:21:03 PM  

rohar: oxnard_montalvo: Place your napkins on the table

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]
vs
[www.sargento.com image 525x350]

Winner takes all!!

My bet's on the one on the bottom.  It's definitely more dangerous and harder to detect.


I've been told it's the bottom that is in control.
/Wait wut?
: )
 
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