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(Denver Channel)   DMV tells woman the 2006 Chevy Impala she bought from a dealership is stolen. Surprisingly they weren't just trying to get out of doing their job   (thedenverchannel.com) divider line 30
    More: Misc, DMV, DMV tells, stolen vehicles, used cars  
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6106 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2014 at 3:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



30 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-01 12:25:31 PM  
The old "it's in the computer and we can't remove it" excuse. There was a house in northern Massachusetts that kept getting raided by cops. The address was in the computer because a criminal who didn't live there had given it as his home address. Police couldn't take it out because the computer insisted the address field had to be filled in.

The approach I like is one taken by the federal judge in the recent "no fly list" case. He told the government to fix all the databases contaminated by the incorrect record. If they don't do it in 90 days they can be jailed for contempt. I bet the data processing problems will solve themselves.
 
2014-03-01 03:12:35 PM  
Repo companies are supposed to call the police after they repo a car so it can get entered in the computer as being repossessed so it doesn't later get put in as stolen. Somebody screwed up here and didn't notify the cops.
 
2014-03-01 03:35:20 PM  
The dealership should give her a loaner car until this get straightened out.
 
2014-03-01 03:37:34 PM  

InternetSecurityGuard: The dealership should give her a loaner car until this get straightened out.


Or at least steal another car for her.
 
2014-03-01 03:38:38 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Somebody screwed up here and didn't notify the cops.


Sounds like a whole bunch of screwups. The woman who bought the car seems to be the only one who didn't fark things up.

1) The screwup who couldn't pay for his own car and reported it stolen when it was repo'd.
2) The police either weren't informed about the repo or didn't pull it from the system.
3) The dealership had the title but didn't bother to pass it along to the buyer.
4) The DMV is recovering stolen cars? Really? Even if they have a title?

She'll end up with a loaner or something until it gets sorted, but it sounds like the person who had it repo'd should be charged with filing a false police report.
 
2014-03-01 03:41:07 PM  

akula: The woman who bought the car seems to be the only one who didn't fark things up.


That's the most amazing thing about this story.

/window seat please
 
2014-03-01 03:42:45 PM  
I've never had a car repo'd.  Do they leave paperwork behind or does the car just disappear?  I the car just disappears I can see filing a stolen vehicle report on it.

And sure, if you try to get tags for a stolen vehicle the DMV should intervene and try to get the car back.  Why wouldn't they?  They certainly shouldn't issue tags for it.
 
2014-03-01 03:44:30 PM  

akula: CruiserTwelve: Somebody screwed up here and didn't notify the cops.

Sounds like a whole bunch of screwups. The woman who bought the car seems to be the only one who didn't fark things up.

1) The screwup who couldn't pay for his own car and reported it stolen when it was repo'd.
2) The police either weren't informed about the repo or didn't pull it from the system.
3) The dealership had the title but didn't bother to pass it along to the buyer.
4) The DMV is recovering stolen cars? Really? Even if they have a title?

She'll end up with a loaner or something until it gets sorted, but it sounds like the person who had it repo'd should be charged with filing a false police report.


Assuming she financed it, title belongs to the lender... If that's the dealer then they keep the title.
 
2014-03-01 03:46:20 PM  
Somebody is not doing their job. Something like this should be easy to clear up. Either the car was repossessed and NOT stolen or it was stolen.
 
2014-03-01 03:47:41 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I've never had a car repo'd.  Do they leave paperwork behind or does the car just disappear?  I the car just disappears I can see filing a stolen vehicle report on it.

And sure, if you try to get tags for a stolen vehicle the DMV should intervene and try to get the car back.  Why wouldn't they?  They certainly shouldn't issue tags for it.


Never had a car repo'd either, but I'd figure the folks who have know darn well it's coming. Don't pay on a car loan and there's going to be a lot of official notifications that they want their money.

As for the DMV intervening, I'd expect the police to have made arrangements, not the DMV. I can understand saying "uh, this shows as stolen, so I can't issue plates, you'll need to talk to the dealership and/or the police on this one" instead of saying "Bring it here and we'll have it impounded for you."
 
2014-03-01 03:49:13 PM  

minuslars: Assuming she financed it, title belongs to the lender... If that's the dealer then they keep the title.


Depends on the state. Here in MO the title goes with the owner of the car, even if financed. The title will show a lien on the vehicle, so when it's paid off you either need to keep the paperwork showing that or just go get a title issued without the lien.

But either way, I imagine there should have been some kind of paperwork showing she was the legit owner of the car for titling/registration purposes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-01 04:02:32 PM  
Around here you need to call police if you do a non-consensual tow. I'm not sure if that rule applies to repos. It's aimed at parking lot vultures.
 
2014-03-01 04:06:15 PM  

minuslars: akula: CruiserTwelve: Somebody screwed up here and didn't notify the cops.

Sounds like a whole bunch of screwups. The woman who bought the car seems to be the only one who didn't fark things up.

1) The screwup who couldn't pay for his own car and reported it stolen when it was repo'd.
2) The police either weren't informed about the repo or didn't pull it from the system.
3) The dealership had the title but didn't bother to pass it along to the buyer.
4) The DMV is recovering stolen cars? Really? Even if they have a title?

She'll end up with a loaner or something until it gets sorted, but it sounds like the person who had it repo'd should be charged with filing a false police report.

Assuming she financed it, title belongs to the lender... If that's the dealer then they keep the title.


I financed my car and I have a title, it just says there is a Lein on it with the finance company listed.
 
2014-03-01 04:06:50 PM  

akula: Never had a car repo'd either, but I'd figure the folks who have know darn well it's coming. Don't pay on a car loan and there's going to be a lot of official notifications that they want their money.

As for the DMV intervening, I'd expect the police to have made arrangements, not the DMV. I can understand saying "uh, this shows as stolen, so I can't issue plates, you'll need to talk to the dealership and/or the police on this one" instead of saying "Bring it here and we'll have it impounded for you."


This.  I'm guessing you have to be pretty far underwater for your car to get repossessed.  I can't imagine it's cheap to file the legal paperwork necessary and hire someone to do it.  Beyond that, I'm guessing the consumer has to be a certain amount behind on their payments (i.e. if I miss my payment on March 1, I doubt the repo-man is showing up on March 2).  So after all that, the car has to be worth enough that the lien-holder still wants the car despite these other costs.

I can't imagine anybody is surprised when their cars/boats get repossessed.  Of course, I'm sure Bank of America can provide us a counter-example.
 
2014-03-01 04:12:21 PM  

akula: Depends on the state.


In Colorado the lender keeps the title. It sounds like the original lender had the vehicle repossessed then sold it to the dealership. The title should have followed, otherwise the dealer wouldn't have bought and sold the car and the buyer wouldn't have been able to find a lender.

I'm guessing it is exactly what it sounds like. The repo company didn't notify the cops so it never got entered as repossessed. When the owner reported it stolen the cops assumed it was, in fact, stolen since they hadn't been told otherwise. The owner, according to the article, knew it was repossessed and didn't tell the cops either.
 
2014-03-01 04:22:17 PM  
Dealers buy and sell cars with contingent titles (i.e. titles not in hand) all the time. Often they take delivery of the actual vehicle and often even have it sold long before physically getting the title from the seller. That's why dealers here in Colorado issue their own temporary tags. It gives then 30 days to get the paperwork straightened out while still giving the buyer 15-30 days to apply for license.
 
2014-03-01 04:33:36 PM  
This sort of thing is why you need title insurance on your house (and if you don't get it you are an idiot) so that issues with the title don't end up biting you in the butt.  I would hate to think that we need to go and get title insurance for everything.  This dealer better be giving the woman a loaner while she doesn't have her car as any sort of review on their part would have shown that there wasn't a clean title as it had been reported stolen. For a dealer even if you purchase it from the nominal lender you still have to check to be sure there is nothing else on it like a lien from one of those sleazy title loan places.  Most people getting their property repossessed are not going to be shy about taking out other loans using it as collateral.  I knew my old neighborhood had gone down the toilet when one of those title loan places opened 5 blocks away.
 
2014-03-01 04:43:53 PM  
In the meantime, Wilkerson is out $2,400 for a down payment and without a car.

"I went to try and buy a car today, no one will sell me a car because it shows an open loan of a car that I don't even have," said Wilkerson. "I just want my down payment back."


This is the farked-up part the whole thing: until this gets sorted out, she's in limbo.  Her down-payment money is tied-up, her credit report shows her as having just taken out a car loan so she can't get another one and the vehicle she supposedly bought is presently sitting in an impound lot.

The dealership told 7NEWS that it would do whatever it could to make Wilkerson happy, whether that meant finding her a new car or refunding her money.

*cough*bullshiat*cough*  The lady has already stated that she wants her money back so that she can, you know, buy a car somewhere.
 
2014-03-01 04:45:24 PM  
Typical cops. Kinda the same thing happened to me. They never bothered to close the case. Almost got arrested for driving my own car. (...wait, what?!) Guess they were too busy counting all that OT money from sitting at DOT repair sites to actually do their jobs.
 
2014-03-01 04:55:22 PM  

balki1867: akula: Never had a car repo'd either, but I'd figure the folks who have know darn well it's coming. Don't pay on a car loan and there's going to be a lot of official notifications that they want their money.

As for the DMV intervening, I'd expect the police to have made arrangements, not the DMV. I can understand saying "uh, this shows as stolen, so I can't issue plates, you'll need to talk to the dealership and/or the police on this one" instead of saying "Bring it here and we'll have it impounded for you."

This.  I'm guessing you have to be pretty far underwater for your car to get repossessed.  I can't imagine it's cheap to file the legal paperwork necessary and hire someone to do it.  Beyond that, I'm guessing the consumer has to be a certain amount behind on their payments (i.e. if I miss my payment on March 1, I doubt the repo-man is showing up on March 2).  So after all that, the car has to be worth enough that the lien-holder still wants the car despite these other costs.

I can't imagine anybody is surprised when their cars/boats get repossessed.  Of course, I'm sure Bank of America can provide us a counter-example.


The lender will repossess pretty much anything. They then sell the car at auction, and if they don't get enough to cover their costs- meaning, the amount owed on the car+ costs associated with the repossession, the balance goes to collections.

Now, I've heard of buy here/pay here places, when there's not much left to pay and the car is worth very little letting the buyer keep the car, but they just don't get the actual title/lien removal, so when it comes time to sell or scrap the car, they either have to pay or give the car to the dealer.
 
2014-03-01 05:00:55 PM  

algrant33: Dealers buy and sell cars with contingent titles (i.e. titles not in hand) all the time. Often they take delivery of the actual vehicle and often even have it sold long before physically getting the title from the seller. That's why dealers here in Colorado issue their own temporary tags. It gives then 30 days to get the paperwork straightened out while still giving the buyer 15-30 days to apply for license.


Really this is legal?  I mean this just seems like it is completely set up for abuse like happened here, have the damn title or don't sell the car.  This "we will work it out later" attitude just means the consumer gets shafted.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I know who legislators care about (and it ain't you or me).
 
2014-03-01 05:05:38 PM  

minuslars: akula: CruiserTwelve: Somebody screwed up here and didn't notify the cops.

Sounds like a whole bunch of screwups. The woman who bought the car seems to be the only one who didn't fark things up.

1) The screwup who couldn't pay for his own car and reported it stolen when it was repo'd.
2) The police either weren't informed about the repo or didn't pull it from the system.
3) The dealership had the title but didn't bother to pass it along to the buyer.
4) The DMV is recovering stolen cars? Really? Even if they have a title?

She'll end up with a loaner or something until it gets sorted, but it sounds like the person who had it repo'd should be charged with filing a false police report.

Assuming she financed it, title belongs to the lender... If that's the dealer then they keep the title.


Not in MI, we get the title with a lien printed on title. Once paid off, you get a new clean title.
 
2014-03-01 05:11:14 PM  

interstellar_tedium: algrant33: Dealers buy and sell cars with contingent titles (i.e. titles not in hand) all the time. Often they take delivery of the actual vehicle and often even have it sold long before physically getting the title from the seller. That's why dealers here in Colorado issue their own temporary tags. It gives then 30 days to get the paperwork straightened out while still giving the buyer 15-30 days to apply for license.

Really this is legal?  I mean this just seems like it is completely set up for abuse like happened here, have the damn title or don't sell the car.  This "we will work it out later" attitude just means the consumer gets shafted.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I know who legislators care about (and it ain't you or me).


Yeah, can't say I'd be handing over one thin dime for a car that isn't title in hand. I know Craigslist has a lot of cars for sale with a "No Title" disclaimer, but those are nearly certain stolen or otherwise not something anybody with half a brain wants to get involved with.

Greek: Now, I've heard of buy here/pay here places, when there's not much left to pay and the car is worth very little letting the buyer keep the car, but they just don't get the actual title/lien removal, so when it comes time to sell or scrap the car, they either have to pay or give the car to the dealer.


This I can understand. You owe the money, and until it's paid off, the lien stays.
 
2014-03-01 05:43:52 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I've never had a car repo'd.  Do they leave paperwork behind or does the car just disappear?  I the car just disappears I can see filing a stolen vehicle report on it.

And sure, if you try to get tags for a stolen vehicle the DMV should intervene and try to get the car back.  Why wouldn't they?  They certainly shouldn't issue tags for it.


Dealer goes and gets it - or more appropriately, gets someone like me to sneak in and get the damned thing so he stays safe and sound in his car - and takes it back to the lot (BUY HERE, PAY HERE, years back). And, YES, they damned well know it is going to be repossessed when they are 5 months late on payments and have already switched rims (from nice custom to damned spare steel) and stereo is gone. Went after one and there was nothing left but the body... literally stripped like you left it in Harlem from a few weeks. Apparently bought it because they needed parts for another one LOL!!

"According to a DMV spokeswoman, the car would remain listed as stolen until that law enforcement agency closes the case."  Also known as, it will forever be listed as stolen since they're the laziest bastards on the planet, unless it is something to do with writing a ticket.
 
2014-03-01 06:17:13 PM  

CruiserTwelve: akula: Depends on the state.

In Colorado the lender keeps the title. It sounds like the original lender had the vehicle repossessed then sold it to the dealership. The title should have followed, otherwise the dealer wouldn't have bought and sold the car and the buyer wouldn't have been able to find a lender.

I'm guessing it is exactly what it sounds like. The repo company didn't notify the cops so it never got entered as repossessed. When the owner reported it stolen the cops assumed it was, in fact, stolen since they hadn't been told otherwise. The owner, according to the article, knew it was repossessed and didn't tell the cops either.


Would that not constitute filing a false police report?  I've never had a car repossessed, but the paperwork i signed (only one car financed so far) went into quite a bit of details about the process.
 
2014-03-01 07:09:38 PM  

akula: As for the DMV intervening, I'd expect the police to have made arrangements, not the DMV. I can understand saying "uh, this shows as stolen, so I can't issue plates, you'll need to talk to the dealership and/or the police on this one" instead of saying "Bring it here and we'll have it impounded for you."


You'd think a police detective would make a few phone calls. First to the guy who reported it stolen. If he admits it was repo'd then the detective can knock off early for some donuts. My old boss the hard ass, if it happened to him would have called the dealer and tell them he's renting a car until they sort out their mess.

Actually saw a guy have this happen to at the DMV. Car comes up stolen. DMV called the cops. Cops behavior reeked of 'not this shait again'. Sounded like party B bought a car with a rubber check from party A. Party A reported it stolen. Party B then gave the car back and Party A sold it to party C, who then had to spend twenty very confused minutes talking to two cops in front of everyone waiting at the DMV.
 
2014-03-01 07:21:59 PM  

docilej: Typical cops. Kinda the same thing happened to me. They never bothered to close the case. Almost got arrested for driving my own car. (...wait, what?!) Guess they were too busy counting all that OT money from sitting at DOT repair sites to actually do their jobs.


Point of order: cops don't get OT for working those construction sites. They get off-duty pay from the contractor which is almost always less than their regular pay.
 
2014-03-01 08:05:30 PM  
I feel very sorry for that lady. A friend's son was in the same situation, but had luck on his side. After moving to a new state and trying to register his car, the DMV there told him it was stolen. He drove directly to the nearest police station and showed them that it ad already been registered in a prior state. Rather than impound it the police trusted him and allowed him to call the dealer. He called the dealer who acted like they didn't know anything, but then one of the officers got on the line said "if we have to take possession of the car, he can sue you for not verifying the title was clear when you sold it to him, and you might be liable for trafficking in stolen goods". Suddenly the dealer became very cooperative and helped tracked down the finance company they had bought it from. The finance company also was reluctant to cooperate and said it would take days to resolve and a court order was needed, until both the police and my friend's brother (a lawyer) told them they would be taken to court for any loss of use of the car and more if it turned out they hadn't done the proper paperwork and reporting on the repossession.   Suddenly paperwork they had showing they had repossessed the car and that it was not stolen was found and faxed to the police in 24 hours to clear everything up.

My friend's son was very lucky in finding police that took an "innocent until proven guilty" view of him, and having lawyers in the family.
 
2014-03-01 09:17:38 PM  
The dealership told 7NEWS that it would do whatever it could to make Wilkerson happy, whether that meant finding her a new car or refunding her money.

Then whats taking you so long, get off your fat ass and do it.
 
2014-03-01 11:21:29 PM  
 

CruiserTwelve: Point of order: cops don't get OT for working those construction sites. They get off-duty pay from the contractor which is almost always less than their regular pay


You work in the wrong State then, in  AZ  if a place wants a uniformed cop on site, they pay the  Agency for it, the  Cop gets paid O.T, since the Department is not allowed to take away from  regular patrol hours to play security guard at some private business.  It  costs the business about 70.00 and hour to Rent a real Cop.  now some cops work for private security our of uniform but there are issues with that since if they go all "official police" on someone while playing security guard it creates a huge liability issue for their department.

I have friends whose Special Duty OT is more than their base pay
 
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