If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Telegraph)   Rome is days away from going bankrupt. The city has endured the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, Nero's burning and two world wars only to end up just like Detroit   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 89
    More: Fail, Italian capital, Nero, Holy Roman Empire, Matteo Renzi, days away, draft law, Prime Minister of Italy  
•       •       •

1628 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Mar 2014 at 9:45 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



89 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-03-01 09:52:58 AM  
Meh, we'll send the Goths in to tidy the place up.
 
2014-03-01 10:04:01 AM  
I'm sure those barbarians in the North will lend a hand. Or, they could just grant me citizenship and I'll help their tax base.

/romanphile
 
2014-03-01 10:10:02 AM  
This is sad. Rome is an amazing city.

At least to visit.
 
2014-03-01 11:19:10 AM  
Maybe the Vatican could chip some of that gold off of all it's buildings and give it to the city? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
 
2014-03-01 11:26:27 AM  

Vertdang: Maybe the Vatican could chip some of that gold off of all it's buildings and give it to the city? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


The Pope is probably biding his time.  Going to wait until the last minute and come in and buy the whole damn city at deep deep discount prices.
 
2014-03-01 11:33:07 AM  
There may be yet another connection between Rome and Detroit - one other than urban blight caused
by negligence...it was once proposed to have the Detroit Lions play the New Orleans Saints in the
Coliseum; a kind of "Nero Bowl" preseason NFL game....it never came to pass, probably because the
Lions would have been fed to the Saints instead of the other way around. (Back then, though, both
the Lions and Saints were sucky, now, only one of them is - and it's not the Saints.)
 
2014-03-01 11:44:03 AM  

BizarreMan: Vertdang: Maybe the Vatican could chip some of that gold off of all it's buildings and give it to the city? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

The Pope is probably biding his time.  Going to wait until the last minute and come in and buy the whole damn city at deep deep discount prices.


Holy Roman Empire, Electric Boogaloo
 
2014-03-01 12:17:09 PM  
Interesting. Can I pick up some of the extras from Spartacus cheap?
 
2014-03-01 12:37:03 PM  
Marino said that Renzi, a centre-left leader

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" Margaret Thatcher
 
2014-03-01 12:43:18 PM  
Rome wasn't in the Holy Roman Empire when it fell, so I don't see how that was relevant. It survived the fall of lots of stuff it wasn't in.
 
2014-03-01 12:51:36 PM  

Shostie: This is sad. Rome is an amazing city.

At least to visit.


To be fair, it'd be better with fewer greaseball Romans.

Kick them all out, and turn the whole place into a theme park.
 
2014-03-01 12:57:33 PM  
Both cities are being gutted by terrible business leadership?
 
2014-03-01 01:21:13 PM  
Welcome to the period of Corruptus Romana. Maybe they can find sponsorship somewhere, or sell it to an oligarch.
 
2014-03-01 01:36:55 PM  
This time it really IS the Christians fault.
 
2014-03-01 01:38:01 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Welcome to the period of Corruptus Romana. Maybe they can find sponsorship somewhere, or sell it to an oligarch.


"Welcome"??
 
2014-03-01 01:51:17 PM  
The City of Rome is like life itself.

Every time you look another dagos by.
 
2014-03-01 02:42:07 PM  
Omnia Romae venalia sunt
 
2014-03-01 02:43:14 PM  

Poopy MacPoop: Rome wasn't in the Holy Roman Empire when it fell, so I don't see how that was relevant. It survived the fall of lots of stuff it wasn't in.


Came here to say that. Subby fails at history, geography.

Unless there was a joke I missed.
 
2014-03-01 02:45:36 PM  
Rome's got better, more valuable art to sell off.  Trevi fountain, for instance. That's gotta be worth, what, 50-60 grand?
 
2014-03-01 03:12:54 PM  

Poopy MacPoop: Rome wasn't in the Holy Roman Empire when it fell, so I don't see how that was relevant. It survived the fall of lots of stuff it wasn't in.


Glad to see I wasn't the only one scratching my head at that headline.
 
2014-03-01 03:24:57 PM  
Rome is a dump. Have you seen the Colosseum? It hasn't even got a floor and it's full of stray cats.

The Forum needs a complete rebuild.

Oh, well. It will survive. It survived being used as a pasture for a few hundred years.
 
2014-03-01 04:11:26 PM  
SPQR: Sono pazzi quelli romani
 
2014-03-01 04:14:04 PM  
Oh please.

The city survived the Gothic War of the 550s (where it was sacked four times and its population reduced by probably up to 90%), I'm sure it can survive this.
 
2014-03-01 04:16:24 PM  
Oh, and subby:

The Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Holy Roman Empire which was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.
 
2014-03-01 04:21:03 PM  

Ishkur: Oh, and subby:

The Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Holy Roman Empire which was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.


I could be wrong, but for a time I don't think it had anything to do with Rome, either.
 
2014-03-01 04:33:34 PM  

H31N0US: but for a time I don't think it had anything to do with Rome, either.


It was until the treacherous French schweinhunds stole Lombardy and Bologna
 
2014-03-01 04:33:48 PM  

H31N0US: Ishkur: Oh, and subby:

The Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Holy Roman Empire which was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.

I could be wrong, but for a time I don't think it had anything to do with Rome, either.


Correct. The Holy Roman Empire could more accurately be called the Secular German Elective Monarchy.
 
2014-03-01 05:03:12 PM  
Rome's run out of other people's money before. That's why there's no longer a Roman empire.

That's also why they pioneered printing-press finance--and price controls to try to stop the inflation that followed.

/but I suppose "this is not a repeat from 400AD" was too obvious a headline
 
2014-03-01 05:12:11 PM  
 
2014-03-01 05:45:13 PM  

H31N0US: Ishkur: Oh, and subby:

The Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Holy Roman Empire which was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.

I could be wrong, but for a time I don't think it had anything to do with Rome, either.


They did control Rome for about a hundred years or so during the early stages of their empire.  However the Holy Roman Empire lasted for centuries after they lost control of the city and was more of a German endeavor anyways (so the headline still fails).
 
2014-03-01 05:58:08 PM  
The city has endured the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, Nero's burning and two world wars only to end up just like Detroit

The UAW has even more to answer for than I thought.
 
2014-03-01 06:29:16 PM  
No, subby. The Holy Roman Empire never fell, the Roman Empire fell; Francis II the last Holy Roman Emperor AKA Francis I of Austria, dissolved the Holy Roman Empire to appease Napoleon I.
 
2014-03-01 06:37:04 PM  

Ishkur: Oh, and subby:

The Roman Empire had nothing to do with the Holy Roman Empire which was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.


Wrong, right, and wrong.

The HRE's were basically appointed and approved by the Pope, but as someone else mentioned, it got turned into a German endeavor, and it was most certainly an empire.
 
2014-03-01 07:20:40 PM  

farkeruk: Marino said that Renzi, a centre-left leader

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" Margaret Thatcher


Riiiiiiiiight.

/there is no shortage of people with too much money, even in socialist countries.
 
2014-03-01 07:49:29 PM  

walktoanarcade: The HRE's were basically appointed and approved by the Pope, but as someone else mentioned, it got turned into a German endeavor, and it was most certainly an empire.


Not all the time, not everywhere, and never at once.
 
2014-03-01 08:00:58 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: The HRE's were basically appointed and approved by the Pope, but as someone else mentioned, it got turned into a German endeavor, and it was most certainly an empire.

Not all the time, not everywhere, and never at once.


Ehmm I respectfully disagree in that as a technicality it was "Holy", although certainly some unholiness occurred, nevertheless, Francis II and the rest of the Habsburg-Lorraine's(not the extinct Habsburg's) seem OK overall, some flaws aside, one can argue (and I am) that at least towards the end of the HRE, it was all three.

Without Francis II fighting and finally putting a stop to Napoleon(with the help of essentially all of what is now Europe and beyond) who knows what could have been. And I doubt allowing a warmonger to continue for the rest of his life could have been good.
 
2014-03-01 08:04:50 PM  

whither_apophis: BizarreMan: Vertdang: Maybe the Vatican could chip some of that gold off of all it's buildings and give it to the city? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

The Pope is probably biding his time.  Going to wait until the last minute and come in and buy the whole damn city at deep deep discount prices.

Holy Roman Empire, Electric Boogaloo


Good to know Fark is educated in world history enough to know this is far from the first time Rome's had this issue, too bad for them the old ways of conquering another tribe of barbarians is no longer a valid option to refill their coffers.
 
2014-03-01 08:07:15 PM  
"Roman" as a technicality, but I grant anyone regardless because I cannot with a straight face argue that they were true "Romans" at the end, unless I wanted to make the argument that because they came out of the Roman Catholic Church, they were Roman, but I am not, so I kind of take back that statement that it was all three.

How about, two out of three.

It would be like someone arguing that they were Roman because of the Church today-nah. Rome as a county and Empire was dead for a long time before recent histories of the last few hundred years to say the least.
 
2014-03-01 08:39:38 PM  

walktoanarcade: Ehmm I respectfully disagree in that as a technicality it was "Holy", although certainly some unholiness occurred, nevertheless, Francis II and the rest of the Habsburg-Lorraine's(not the extinct Habsburg's) seem OK overall, some flaws aside, one can argue (and I am) that at least towards the end of the HRE, it was all three.


"Holy" as in Catholic? Not in the post-Reformation period. German? The only part I would consider that is Brandenburg-Prussia. Empire? It needs a centralized authority to qualify and it was anything but for its entire existence.

/And now here's David Mitchell explaining what made the Holy Roman Empire neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire
 
2014-03-01 08:46:40 PM  

walktoanarcade: "Roman" as a technicality, but I grant anyone regardless because I cannot with a straight face argue that they were true "Romans" at the end


The problem is that the Roman Empire lasted so long and was so powerful and stable that rump states and other Empires that emerged in former Roman territories had a tendency to call themselves Roman for the prestige. The Byzantines Empire is a modern demarcation -- at the time it was still considered the contiguous Roman Empire even though it had nothing to do with Rome for over 1000 years. And when the Turks took over Byzantine lands, they continued the tradition, stylizing themselves the "Sultans of Rum" (the Arab word for Rome).
 
2014-03-01 08:47:48 PM  
IIRC it was 'Roman' because they were supposedly the revitilization of the 400 year old defunct Western half of the Roman Empire, a Catholic Christian Empire as opposed to the Eastern Greek Orthodox Roman Empire (The Byzantines).
 
2014-03-01 08:53:41 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: Ehmm I respectfully disagree in that as a technicality it was "Holy", although certainly some unholiness occurred, nevertheless, Francis II and the rest of the Habsburg-Lorraine's(not the extinct Habsburg's) seem OK overall, some flaws aside, one can argue (and I am) that at least towards the end of the HRE, it was all three.

"Holy" as in Catholic? Not in the post-Reformation period. German? The only part I would consider that is Brandenburg-Prussia. Empire? It needs a centralized authority to qualify and it was anything but for its entire existence.

/And now here's David Mitchell explaining what made the Holy Roman Empire neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire


The central authority of the HRE was Rome under the Papacy and its governmental seat was in Vienna. For some time before and during the Napoleonic era, the Holy Roman Empire was technically all three, but I admit that the "Roman" part is hard to argue in the sense that "Rome" as an empire had been dead for a long time, as you know.

And yes, Francis II, the last Holy Roman Emperor(Kaiser) was titled such because he ruled the Empire until he abolished it and became the first president of the German Confederation.

Look at the old maps of the HRE during the time of Napoleon and tell me that's not an empire by any definition, although I may grant you it was not truly Roman.


/caesar is really pronounced kaiser
 
2014-03-01 08:57:28 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: "Roman" as a technicality, but I grant anyone regardless because I cannot with a straight face argue that they were true "Romans" at the end

The problem is that the Roman Empire lasted so long and was so powerful and stable that rump states and other Empires that emerged in former Roman territories had a tendency to call themselves Roman for the prestige

. The Byzantines Empire is a modern demarcation -- at the time it was still considered the contiguous Roman Empire even though it had nothing to do with Rome for over 1000 years. And when the Turks took over Byzantine lands, they continued the tradition, stylizing themselves the "Sultans of Rum" (the Arab word for Rome).


I hadn't considered that; that's an interesting nugget of history unto itself.
 
2014-03-01 09:22:11 PM  

walktoanarcade: The central authority of the HRE was Rome under the Papacy and its governmental seat was in Vienna.


Not according to Charlemagne it wasn't.

walktoanarcade: Look at the old maps of the HRE during the time of Napoleon


What, this?

www.geocurrents.info

Yes, that certainly looks like a unified empire.
 
2014-03-01 09:29:55 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: The central authority of the HRE was Rome under the Papacy and its governmental seat was in Vienna.

Not according to Charlemagne it wasn't.

walktoanarcade: Look at the old maps of the HRE during the time of Napoleon

What, this?

[www.geocurrents.info image 850x584]

Yes, that certainly looks like a unified empire.


Whoa, Charlemagne?  I was talking about the Holy Roman Empire at the time of Napoleon I, not almost a thousand years earlier. ;)

Funny you should mention Karl der Großße AKA Charlemagne, though, as Francis II was directly related to him.
 
2014-03-01 09:36:03 PM  
Whoops, too many Eszetts.

Anyway, if you want to talk Charles the Great, then at that time, yea I'd agree it wasn't the HRE, it was the Roman Empire, yes.

Say for about.....650 years it was actually The Holy Roman Empire, but Charles the Great was already dead.
 
2014-03-01 09:37:12 PM  

walktoanarcade: Whoa, Charlemagne? I was talking about the Holy Roman Empire at the time of Napoleon I, not almost a thousand years earlier. ;)


I'm talking about the HRE in its contiguous existence, founded by the Carolingians. Hence my initial argument that you objected to: Not all the time, not everywhere, and never at once. It was such a clusterfark of states that it's quite easy to support these assertions. The Reformation alone does it quite easily.
 
2014-03-01 09:38:10 PM  

walktoanarcade: Say for about.....650 years it was actually The Holy Roman Empire, but Charles the Great was already dead.


Not even that.
 
2014-03-01 09:50:19 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: Whoa, Charlemagne? I was talking about the Holy Roman Empire at the time of Napoleon I, not almost a thousand years earlier. ;)

I'm talking about the HRE in its contiguous existence, founded by the Carolingians. Hence my initial argument that you objected to: Not all the time, not everywhere, and never at once. It was such a clusterfark of states that it's quite easy to support these assertions. The Reformation alone does it quite easily.


I feel I understand you now, simple misunderstanding. OK, yeah I agree to that in the sense that many in the Holy Roman Empire wanted out, but I still assert that the HRE definitely was two out of three of those things at its moribund stage.

Francis II was more of a president than an emperor, but he did have dictatorial power and sometimes used it.  Can't say I agree with everything he did either, although the point is that there were lands of peoples' separated by many languages "united" as it were by Rome via the Kaiser and the "realm", respectively.

That's the thing, right? Part of it was many people were like, yes, we're in your realm, but we want none of your empire. To which they were told "LOL too bad!"

Later on the Germans would continue the "tradition" by having an emperor and a king at the same time in the same man(William II, King of Prussia Emperor of Germany) rule over different realms in the Reich. (!)

/why do those words mean the same
//no really asking
 
2014-03-01 09:52:31 PM  

Ishkur: walktoanarcade: Say for about.....650 years it was actually The Holy Roman Empire, but Charles the Great was already dead.

Not even that.


All right, 552 years exactly, sheesh. ;)  I said "about."
 
Displayed 50 of 89 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report