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(The New York Times)   Former Ukrainian President Yanukovych does his best Baghdad Bob impression, says "Nobody deposed me"   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Baghdad Bob, Ukrainian President, Ukrainian President Yanukovych, Mr. Yanukovych, Ukrainian, Russia, Subdivisions of Russia, bank secrecy  
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2006 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 3:36 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-28 05:03:40 PM  

durbnpoisn: greentea1985: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: This sounds suspiciously like an opportunity to portray himself as the legitimate government of Ukraine, establish a Russian-backed alternative to that in Kiev and ... well, partition the country.

Exactly. He is saying what needs to be said to give Russia a fig leaf under which to act. Yanukovich was never deposed and if he was, it was illegal. He just went on a surprise trip to visit Ukraine's ally, Russia while at home someone decided to illegally take over the country. Russia should thwart the illegal activities and over-throw the illegal government. This is what Russia and Yanukovich are planning on.

Who exactly is he trying to sell that story to?  Because that's clearly not the truth.
I'm guessing the answer to that question is "the rest of the world".  Because if, and when, the Russian's move in, there has to be some support from the rest of the world.  Common sense would dictate, anyway.


The story is for Putin, so Putin can justify seizing part or all of Ukraine and installing his buddy Yanukovich as governor/president/PM. No one buys it, but it provides Russia with a convenient excuse.
 
2014-02-28 05:04:51 PM  
Pretty sure that if your own people force you to abandon your elected position that you're no longer their leader.
 
2014-02-28 05:06:24 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: This sounds suspiciously like an opportunity to portray himself as the legitimate government of Ukraine, establish a Russian-backed alternative to that in Kiev and ... well, partition the country.

if you can't be president of Ukraine you can at least be governor of a Russian Crimea.


Except that even the Crimeans don't want him because he's a coward... and even Pooty-poot is pretty much ignoring him now that he is of no use to him.
 
2014-02-28 05:18:42 PM  

IronOcelot: greentea1985: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: This sounds suspiciously like an opportunity to portray himself as the legitimate government of Ukraine, establish a Russian-backed alternative to that in Kiev and ... well, partition the country.

Exactly. He is saying what needs to be said to give Russia a fig leaf under which to act. Yanukovich was never deposed and if he was, it was illegal. He just went on a surprise trip to visit Ukraine's ally, Russia while at home someone decided to illegally take over the country. Russia should thwart the illegal activities and over-throw the illegal government. This is what Russia and Yanukovich are planning on.

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 625x435]

And is what the hairsplitters at the UN will use to keep the EU and US out of it except for humanitarian aid and covert stuff.

Not that I think we should be getting involved anyway as we got enough on the table as is.


I think we are still paying off the loan for the table.
 
2014-02-28 05:19:28 PM  
 
2014-02-28 05:20:36 PM  
/www.standbyformindcontrol.com
 
2014-02-28 05:22:06 PM  

LewDux: Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny has been placed under house arrest and forbidden from using the internet or receiving visitors.


OH NOEZ!  He can't get his porn!
 
2014-02-28 05:23:56 PM  

JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: Well, Baghdad Bob turned out to be right in the end, so this might not be the comparison you're looking for.

Indeed - there were no Americans in Baghdad and all was well.

There were no WMDs.
Iraq will not be easy to capture. "They do not know in what mud they are wading."
The US are foreign invaders and civilians will resist them.

But, hey, he was such a funny character!



He also promised to equip American troops with new shoes, and I don't think that happened now did it, Mr. Smarty Pants?

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes." -- Baghdad Bob

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfoministe r. htm
 
2014-02-28 05:26:26 PM  
shiat just hit the fan even worse, if the news is correct.

Russia moved it's troops into Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 05:30:51 PM  

meat0918: shiat just hit the fan even worse, if the news is correct.

Russia moved it's troops into Ukraine.


jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-28 05:33:22 PM  

meat0918: shiat just hit the fan even worse, if the news is correct.

Russia moved it's troops into Ukraine.


img.fark.net
Those Russians just need some elbow room...
 
2014-02-28 05:33:33 PM  
I'll take "Abdications" for $100, Alex.
 
2014-02-28 05:35:14 PM  

LewDux: Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny has been placed under house arrest and forbidden from using the internet or receiving visitors.


With the Olympics done ol' Pooty-Poot can get back to what Russians do best.
Purge.
 
2014-02-28 05:35:27 PM  

meat0918: shiat just hit the fan even worse, if the news is correct.

Russia moved it's troops into Ukraine.


I'm following several international news agencies on Twitter, and no one is reporting this yet.
 
2014-02-28 05:42:32 PM  

cgraves67: I'm following several international news agencies on Twitter, and no one is reporting this yet.


Well, there's this:  http://news.yahoo.com/2-000-russian-soldiers-land-armed-invasion-crim e a-202159123.html;_ylt=AwrBJR.i8BBTI2MA9wXQtDMD

But that's really based on one report that's been circulating all day, along with more credible reports of smaller number of Russians in the areas around their naval base. Plus the speculation that those who took the airports and tv/telephone stations are really Russians or Russian-supported. Either way, it's nothing that is just breaking news, and it's not really a massive overland invasion -- more like just slowly taking control of an area while trying to provoke the Ukrainians to attack them.
 
2014-02-28 05:44:09 PM  

jshine: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: Well, Baghdad Bob turned out to be right in the end, so this might not be the comparison you're looking for.

Indeed - there were no Americans in Baghdad and all was well.

There were no WMDs.
Iraq will not be easy to capture. "They do not know in what mud they are wading."
The US are foreign invaders and civilians will resist them.

But, hey, he was such a funny character!

He also promised to equip American troops with new shoes, and I don't think that happened now did it, Mr. Smarty Pants?

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes." -- Baghdad Bob

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfoministe r. htm



www.indybay.org
 
2014-02-28 05:49:29 PM  

JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: Well, Baghdad Bob turned out to be right in the end, so this might not be the comparison you're looking for.

Indeed - there were no Americans in Baghdad and all was well.

There were no WMDs.
Iraq will not be easy to capture. "They do not know in what mud they are wading."
The US are foreign invaders and civilians will resist them.

But, hey, he was such a funny character!

He also promised to equip American troops with new shoes, and I don't think that happened now did it, Mr. Smarty Pants?

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes." -- Baghdad Bob

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfoministe r. htm


[www.indybay.org image 473x347]


It would have been a thing of beauty had the guy connected.
 
2014-02-28 06:12:33 PM  
img.fark.net

"Never talk to me like that again! No one deported me! I am Dictator. Dictator existed long before democracy. I exiled myself. I cannot be repatriated. I am all powerful! And so very lonely without all my stuff."
 
2014-02-28 06:18:05 PM  
"Completely unfounded. I'm just enjoying a change of scenery in tahiti. Oh, and that's not a backdrop!" <as 'margaritaville' starts to play in the background..>
 
2014-02-28 06:35:27 PM  

vygramul: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: Well, Baghdad Bob turned out to be right in the end, so this might not be the comparison you're looking for.

Indeed - there were no Americans in Baghdad and all was well.

There were no WMDs.
Iraq will not be easy to capture. "They do not know in what mud they are wading."
The US are foreign invaders and civilians will resist them.

But, hey, he was such a funny character!

He also promised to equip American troops with new shoes, and I don't think that happened now did it, Mr. Smarty Pants?

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes." -- Baghdad Bob

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfoministe r. htm


[www.indybay.org image 473x347]

It would have been a thing of beauty had the guy connected.


Please.  Bush is a grand master of ducking things.
 
2014-02-28 06:41:30 PM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: vygramul: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: jshine: JerseyTim: Well, Baghdad Bob turned out to be right in the end, so this might not be the comparison you're looking for.

Indeed - there were no Americans in Baghdad and all was well.

There were no WMDs.
Iraq will not be easy to capture. "They do not know in what mud they are wading."
The US are foreign invaders and civilians will resist them.

But, hey, he was such a funny character!

He also promised to equip American troops with new shoes, and I don't think that happened now did it, Mr. Smarty Pants?

"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes." -- Baghdad Bob

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljoke-iraqinfoministe r. htm


[www.indybay.org image 473x347]

It would have been a thing of beauty had the guy connected.

Please.  Bush is a grand master of ducking things.


Well played, masked hero.
 
2014-02-28 07:21:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Everything is fine
[assets.sbnation.com image 400x300]


How I miss him!  The M-1's could have been pulling up in the background and Baghdad Bob would be shaking his head, with that little smile, "No, that's not the Americans.  It must be somebody else, but, for sure, it's not the Americans."   What a pro!  I was so sure that he would have been picked up, to be a corporate flack by someone.  "Just tell me what you want me to say. It makes no difference to me. It could be noon and I'll tell them it's actually midnight and that's not the Sun that they see up there. It really makes no difference."  Whatever happened to him?
 
2014-02-28 07:50:47 PM  

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: This sounds suspiciously like an opportunity to portray himself as the legitimate government of Ukraine, establish a Russian-backed alternative to that in Kiev and ... well, partition the country.


Will there be a big issue with this? I mean, from the rest of the Ukraine.

I know that Russia gave Crimea to the Ukraine, but it isn't enough to say 'no backsies' they have to defend / take it. By the time that NATO is able to get a sufficient force there to threaten it, Russia could easily hold 'elections' for them to declare sovereignty from the rest.

This isn't Iraq, Russia's on the security council at the UN. They'd veto anything that threatened their move, if they can.

I admit, I'm out of my depth here...
 
2014-02-28 08:54:41 PM  

zimbomba63: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Everything is fine
[assets.sbnation.com image 400x300]

How I miss him!  The M-1's could have been pulling up in the background and Baghdad Bob would be shaking his head, with that little smile, "No, that's not the Americans.  It must be somebody else, but, for sure, it's not the Americans."   What a pro!  I was so sure that he would have been picked up, to be a corporate flack by someone.  "Just tell me what you want me to say. It makes no difference to me. It could be noon and I'll tell them it's actually midnight and that's not the Sun that they see up there. It really makes no difference."  Whatever happened to him?


i was thinking he could make a living doing product placement commercials using his old uniform.
 
2014-02-28 09:13:51 PM  
Easy way to solve this problem let the russians in the Crimea move back to Russia and Putin can provide them with housing and employment and get the russian ships the fark out,
 
Esn
2014-02-28 11:45:05 PM  

durbnpoisn: greentea1985: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: This sounds suspiciously like an opportunity to portray himself as the legitimate government of Ukraine, establish a Russian-backed alternative to that in Kiev and ... well, partition the country.

Exactly. He is saying what needs to be said to give Russia a fig leaf under which to act. Yanukovich was never deposed and if he was, it was illegal. He just went on a surprise trip to visit Ukraine's ally, Russia while at home someone decided to illegally take over the country. Russia should thwart the illegal activities and over-throw the illegal government. This is what Russia and Yanukovich are planning on.

Who exactly is he trying to sell that story to?  Because that's clearly not the truth.
I'm guessing the answer to that question is "the rest of the world".  Because if, and when, the Russian's move in, there has to be some support from the rest of the world.  Common sense would dictate, anyway.



Statement by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the events in Ukraine (released 27 February 2014):


The agreement on the settlement of the Ukrainian crisis, which was signed on the 21 February and certified by the German, Polish and French Foreign Ministers, is still not being fulfilled. Militants have still not laid down arms, they have not freed administrative buildings, or announced their intention to "make order" in all the Ukrainian regions. There are threats of physical reprisals, as the President Viktor Yanukovych emphasised in his statement today.

The agreement to jointly investigate acts of violence and the obligation to create a national unity government, have been forgotten. Instead, as Maidan puts it, a "government of champions", which includes representatives of national extremists, is being created.

The agreements about constitutional reform, which should precede presidential elections according to the Agreement of the 21 February, have been forgotten. We are convinced that only a constitutional framework, ensuring the interests of all responsible political forces and all regions of Ukraine, corresponds to the interests of national peace and stability in the long term.

We appeal to those western partners, who initially supported the opposition and who supported the Agreement of the 21 February, to become fully aware of their responsibility for its implementation. The statements that this document has already played its role are not serious. All the taskslisted and agreed on the 21 February, have not lost their meaning, in fact they have become even more topical to prevent further polarisation of the community as a result of radical actions.

We must stop interference in church affairs, the besmearing of Orthodox temples, memorials in honour of the heroes of the Great Patriotic War, who freed Ukraine from fascism, and other monuments.

We are seriously concerned about the cancellation of the Law on the Foundations of the State Language Policy in violation of Ukraine's international obligations, which leads to further deprivation of the rights of minorities, restriction of the freedom of mass media, bans on the activities of individual political parties.

We currently note frequent appeals to Russia,by western countries, for cooperation about issues related to the situation in Ukraine. We proposed this long ago, long before this crisis ever entered its hot phase, however, at the time our colleagues were not disposed towards this.


Nevertheless, we are ready to interact, understanding clearly that it must be done honestly, based on the ability not only to agree, but also to fulfill the agreements, which should take into account the interests of all the Ukrainian people, as well as all partners of Ukraine. The implementation of obligations under the Agreement of the 21 February would become an important step along this path.
The attempts to replay agreed actions unilaterally every time, the lack of any wish to perceive the real situation as it is, never leads to any good. When NATO starts reviewing the situation in Ukraine, it sends the wrong signal. It even seemed appropriate for the NATO Secretary General to mention that "Ukraine's membership of NATO is not an urgent priority of the Ukrainian leadership". Does this mean that membership should be a priority, but not an urgent one? They are attempting to decide for the Ukrainian people again.

We insistently recommend that everybody should refuse provocative statements and respect the out-of-bloc status of Ukraine, which is formalised in its Law on the Foundations of Domestic and Foreign Policy.


---

So, yeah, in case you were wondering what Russia's strategy is (at least the political one), it's laid out pretty clearly here.
 
rpl
2014-03-01 06:23:59 AM  

Pattuq: Pretty sure that if your own people force you to abandon your elected position that you're no longer their leader.


Imagine the tea party* picnics from a few years ago as a series of massive violent riots all over Washington with barricades, rocks, molotovs and firearms that somehow grow to such an extent that a group of TP-affiliated congressmen (accompanied by grumpy armed guys who for some reason refuse to remove their masks despite the 'hostilities' being 'over') announce that Obama is no longer president (as mobs of people raid his and other democrats' properties). Also 'Jesus" is now the official language and the constitution is rolled back because fark the amendments.

Coup or "will of the people"?
Is Obama still president?
What do you imagine the actions of the blue states will be?
How many USs will there be in a year, how many of them will be "independent" and how many will be Canadian/Mexican protectorates?

* feel free to replace Obama with Bush and the TP with OWS if the above doesn't fit your political position
 
2014-03-01 07:21:53 AM  

rpl: Pattuq: Pretty sure that if your own people force you to abandon your elected position that you're no longer their leader.

Imagine the tea party* picnics from a few years ago as a series of massive violent riots all over Washington with barricades, rocks, molotovs and firearms that somehow grow to such an extent that a group of TP-affiliated congressmen (accompanied by grumpy armed guys who for some reason refuse to remove their masks despite the 'hostilities' being 'over') announce that Obama is no longer president (as mobs of people raid his and other democrats' properties). Also 'Jesus" is now the official language and the constitution is rolled back because fark the amendments.

Coup or "will of the people"?
Is Obama still president?
What do you imagine the actions of the blue states will be?
How many USs will there be in a year, how many of them will be "independent" and how many will be Canadian/Mexican protectorates?

* feel free to replace Obama with Bush and the TP with OWS if the above doesn't fit your political position


It should be obvious by now that successful revolutions are legitimate and unsuccessful revolutions illegal. If Crimea splits off and manages to stay split-off, it will be a legitimate secession.
 
2014-03-01 11:34:20 AM  
The Ukraine might still hang together, if nobody does anything stupid.
 
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