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(Special Broadcasting Service)   Ukraine: Hey there NATO. Say, you guys remember that wacky treaty we signed in 1994 where you promised to defend us if we were attacked in exchange for us giving up our nukes? Yeah, funny thing, never thought we actually need that, but   (sbs.com.au) divider line 291
    More: Scary, NATO, Ukraine, interim leader, Viktor Yanukovych, Russian forces  
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15715 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 1:50 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



291 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-28 12:51:45 PM
Defend? That's a typo. We probably meant defund. Give us a few weeks to review the conference notes, and access to all your banking information.
 
2014-02-28 12:54:16 PM
Let's ask Georgia how that worked out.
 
2014-02-28 12:54:58 PM
  In 1879 Bismarck concluded the Dual Alliance, a mutual defense pact with Austria-Hungary. He expanded this agreement in 1882 to include Italy, forming the Triple Alliance.
Bismarck realized that an alliance between France and Russia would be a fundamental threat to German security because in the event of war with either power Germany would be forced to fight on two fronts. Bismarck arranged the Emperors' Alliance (1881) and the Reinsurance Treaty (1887) with Russia, agreements that guaranteed Russian neutrality in the event of a Franco-German conflict.

To offset the threat of the Triple Alliance, France and Russia formed their own Dual Alliance in 1894. France also improved relations with Great Britain by entering into an informal understanding with the British known as the Entente Cordiale (1904). This was expanded into the Triple Entente in 1907 with the inclusion of Russia.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-02-28 12:55:14 PM
I forgot about that in the thread the other day. If you'll excuse me I need to pack up to take a vacation farther away from Boston than the 5 PSI overpressure radius.
 
2014-02-28 01:00:40 PM
Wow, that's kind of a pickle. On the one hand, no WAY we'll get involved in that. On the other hand, that's it for credibility in treaties...
 
2014-02-28 01:04:29 PM
Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.
 
2014-02-28 01:07:46 PM

DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.


Civil war until the Russians cross the border
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-28 01:09:21 PM
It didn't specify what methods we would use to protect them from aggression.  I think that Ukraine would have to commit it's own armed forces before they would plausible demand that anyone send them military help.

Besides, the Crimea seceding from Ukraine is probably not what most people would regard as "outer aggression", even if Ukraine sends in troops to hold on to it.
 
2014-02-28 01:09:58 PM

netizencain: DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.

Civil war until the Russians cross the border


Meh, once you call it a civil war, you can sit it out. If Russians then cross the border, you can just say they are assisting one side of a civil war, not invading Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 01:15:18 PM
Well, boys, I reckon this is it - nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies
 
2014-02-28 01:22:46 PM

netizencain: DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.

Civil war until the Russians cross the border


which they did yesterday in military helicopters

and the "People mIlitia of Crimea" the so called "ordinary people" who seized Crimea's Airports yesterday?

they all just happened to be dressed exactly alike in the latest Russian Military-issued full battle kit:
cdn.theatlantic.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-28 01:27:51 PM
DamnYankees:
Meh, once you call it a civil war, you can sit it out. If Russians then cross the border, you can just say they are assisting one side of a civil war, not invading Ukraine.

Russia has a military base there so crossing the border doesn't mean much by itself.  They likely have transit rights to and from the base.

They could even claim that they are helping the legitimate government of Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 01:34:35 PM
Hey, we sent in Putin. You're welcome
 
2014-02-28 01:52:40 PM

DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.


There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.
 
IP
2014-02-28 01:54:04 PM
Well that's an interesting complication...
 
2014-02-28 01:54:13 PM

Voiceofreason01: DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.

There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.


Not sure it does. If there's a civil war, it's hard to make the argument that Russia is 'invading' Ukraine, since they could just as plausible claim they are invited.
 
2014-02-28 01:54:50 PM
Shoulda kept the nukes.
 
2014-02-28 01:55:32 PM
Wait... you guys actually fell for that one?
 
2014-02-28 01:55:50 PM
We'll at least Harold Ramis can save them!

www.morethings.com
 
2014-02-28 01:55:56 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 01:56:09 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-28 01:57:41 PM
The scary part was seeing Biden making commentary in a link below the article.

I did not click the link to see what it said or if it was legit.

Just the threat of Biden shooting off his mouth qualifies for a [Holy shiat] tag.
 
2014-02-28 01:58:25 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Let's ask Georgia how that worked out.


Georgia had nukes?
 
2014-02-28 01:58:33 PM
It sounds to me like Russia is helping out the Ukraine by stopping a civil war.

They're just not helping out like the West wants them to help.
 
2014-02-28 01:59:06 PM

Magorn: netizencain: DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.

Civil war until the Russians cross the border

which they did yesterday in military helicopters

and the "People mIlitia of Crimea" the so called "ordinary people" who seized Crimea's Airports yesterday?

they all just happened to be dressed exactly alike in the latest Russian Military-issued full battle kit:
[cdn.theatlantic.com image 675x474]


Plus, Honda apparently sent at least one of their soldiers which is pretty unnerving.
 
2014-02-28 02:00:28 PM

DamnYankees: Voiceofreason01: DamnYankees: Seems like it'd be pretty easy for us to sit this out on the basis that this is basically a civil war.

There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.

Not sure it does. If there's a civil war, it's hard to make the argument that Russia is 'invading' Ukraine, since they could just as plausible claim they are invited.


true, although the Ukrainian government is claiming that the initial coup was Russian troops.
 
2014-02-28 02:00:50 PM
Hey, Putin. Maybe we need to stand down now?

/I have very little sympathy for the aggressor, and promising to defend them means we need to act on that promise.
//Hopefully there's a way to solve this behind the scenes before war starts, but now we actually  need to intervene, and this phrase will never again be uttered by myself in this context.
 
2014-02-28 02:02:12 PM
Belgium and Slovenia can take this one.      The US is kind of in a stand down right now.

Get back to us later
 
2014-02-28 02:03:20 PM

Kuta: It sounds to me like Russia is helping out the Ukraine by stopping a civil war.

They're just not helping out like the West wants them to help.


Still dreaming about civil war?
 
2014-02-28 02:03:30 PM
Pooty-poot will visit the front lines
russianreport.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-28 02:04:54 PM

Voiceofreason01: There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.


[citation needed]

/I can't find anything about this on the net
 
2014-02-28 02:05:31 PM
Might as well play this in the streets.

upload.wikimedia.org

/This game nearly killed my chances to go to college
 
2014-02-28 02:05:47 PM
What would be the downside be if the nation simply split?  The southeastern Ukranians pretty much consider themselves Russian anyway.  Is there a national resources reason, a la Iraq, that they couldn't just splinter off?  Apart from all the tradgedy of divided families and the death of the velvet revolution and all that.
 
2014-02-28 02:06:17 PM

LewDux: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Let's ask Georgia how that worked out.

Georgia had nukes?


Well, sure.
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-28 02:06:40 PM
Everyone from Serbia to Ukraine should put "Inciting World Wars" as a skill on their LinkedIn.
 
2014-02-28 02:06:54 PM

Odoriferous Queef: Voiceofreason01: There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.

[citation needed]

/I can't find anything about this on the net


I agree.  That kind of statement at least warrants a link.
 
2014-02-28 02:07:27 PM

Publikwerks: [i.imgur.com image 800x495]


I'd piss on a sparkplug if I thought it would do any good
 
2014-02-28 02:08:28 PM
I'm sure Russian has no further territorial demands in Europe.  What could possibly go wrong...
 
2014-02-28 02:08:41 PM
We should have sent troops there the moment Russia started holding invasion drills.

Russia wouldn't have invaded if we were there because they don't want war with us any more than we do with them.

This could escalate into a war because we were too pussy to stand our ground.
 
2014-02-28 02:09:01 PM

PsiChick: Hey, Putin. Maybe we need to stand down now?

/I have very little sympathy for the aggressor, and promising to defend them means we need to act on that promise.
//Hopefully there's a way to solve this behind the scenes before war starts, but now we actually  need to intervene, and this phrase will never again be uttered by myself in this context.


It'd be really cool if, in the event of civil war, the UN could come in and stabilize the situation.  Then, a Swiss elections team could come in, administer a democratic election for a temporary government, and then everyone packs up and goes home.  No disputing the results (democracy, and all that).  No accusations of bias (Switzerland is a paragon of neutrality).  And very little bloodshed.
 
2014-02-28 02:09:12 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Pooty-poot will visit the front lines
[russianreport.files.wordpress.com image 604x350]


Much like Chuck Norris "visits" a bar-fight?
 
2014-02-28 02:09:43 PM

fireclown: What would be the downside be if the nation simply split?  The southeastern Ukranians pretty much consider themselves Russian anyway.


I thought half of Ukraine loves Putin?
 
2014-02-28 02:10:00 PM

CleanAndPure: We should have sent troops there the moment Russia started holding invasion drills.

Russia wouldn't have invaded if we were there because they don't want war with us any more than we do with them.

This could escalate into a war because we were too pussy to stand our ground.


See?  This is what happens when liberals demonize "stand your ground."
 
2014-02-28 02:10:35 PM

Makh: Everyone from Serbia to Ukraine should put "Inciting World Wars" as a skill on their LinkedIn.


Serbia?  Spark a World War?  Nah, that's crazy-talk.
 
2014-02-28 02:11:00 PM

Tomahawk513: PsiChick: Hey, Putin. Maybe we need to stand down now?

/I have very little sympathy for the aggressor, and promising to defend them means we need to act on that promise.
//Hopefully there's a way to solve this behind the scenes before war starts, but now we actually  need to intervene, and this phrase will never again be uttered by myself in this context.

It'd be really cool if, in the event of civil war, the UN could come in and stabilize the situation.  Then, a Swiss elections team could come in, administer a democratic election for a temporary government, and then everyone packs up and goes home.  No disputing the results (democracy, and all that).  No accusations of bias (Switzerland is a paragon of neutrality).  And very little bloodshed.


This would never happen because there's simply too much at stake for Russia to lose the Crimea.  Lose that, they lose their access to their warm water ports and navy.
 
2014-02-28 02:11:14 PM
Hey, Dave. What do we have in the bag for Russia in The Ukraine?

Looks like we drew 'issue platitude'.

Nobody seriously thinks we were going to do anything other than mouth off and stir up the shiat covertly.
 
2014-02-28 02:13:37 PM

Infernalist: This would never happen because there's simply too much at stake for Russia to lose the Crimea.  Lose that, they lose their access to their warm water ports and navy.


You know that they had access to all of that through all those 20+ years of Ukrainian independence, right?
 
2014-02-28 02:13:59 PM

Tomahawk513: PsiChick: Hey, Putin. Maybe we need to stand down now?

/I have very little sympathy for the aggressor, and promising to defend them means we need to act on that promise.
//Hopefully there's a way to solve this behind the scenes before war starts, but now we actually  need to intervene, and this phrase will never again be uttered by myself in this context.

It'd be really cool if, in the event of civil war, the UN could come in and stabilize the situation.  Then, a Swiss elections team could come in, administer a democratic election for a temporary government, and then everyone packs up and goes home.  No disputing the results (democracy, and all that).  No accusations of bias (Switzerland is a paragon of neutrality).  And very little bloodshed.


That would be a  really awesome solution.
 
2014-02-28 02:14:00 PM

FarkingReading:


All that picture needs is a shirtless Putin.

BBC this morning said that the route to Simferopol airport was blocked by troops wearing no insignia and they wouldn't respond when asked who they "belonged" to. The Ukrainians are claiming it's Russian naval forces.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26 379722

/sorry, mo-bile farking
//slava ukraini
 
2014-02-28 02:14:28 PM

fireclown: Odoriferous Queef: Voiceofreason01: There are reports that Russian tanks are rolling into Crimea, which makes this a very different situation.

[citation needed]

/I can't find anything about this on the net

I agree.  That kind of statement at least warrants a link.


eh, I may have jumped the gun. It looks like it's just the one Washington Post article and the Russians are saying they're just moving forces in to secure their naval base.
 
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