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(Fox Sports)   The amount of strikeouts is too damn high   (msn.foxsports.com) divider line 118
    More: Asinine, punch-out, Adam Dunn, Frank Deford, Baseball Prospectus, winning strategy, strike zone  
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2005 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Feb 2014 at 12:27 PM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-28 09:47:42 AM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-02-28 09:48:37 AM
Really? I watched so many hackers at the plate last year. They swing at everything.

I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.
 
2014-02-28 09:55:13 AM

Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.


The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.
 
2014-02-28 10:06:04 AM
Yeah... more walks would be thrilling, too
 
2014-02-28 10:17:02 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Yeah... more walks would be thrilling, too


And longer games. That's what baseball needs, longer games.
 
2014-02-28 10:51:09 AM

czetie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Yeah... more walks would be thrilling, too

And longer games. That's what baseball needs, longer games.


This just in:  "New slower drying paint now available to the public"...
 
2014-02-28 11:45:12 AM

czetie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Yeah... more walks would be thrilling, too

And longer games. That's what baseball needs, longer games.


It's a plot to get America to switch to cricket
 
2014-02-28 12:05:46 PM

czetie: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Yeah... more walks would be thrilling, too

And longer games. That's what baseball needs, longer games.


Needs more Joe Buck
 
2014-02-28 12:21:05 PM
How about we standardize the strike zone via automation? Maybe if the strike zone didn't fluctuate wildly depending on pitch count then the balance between pitching and hitting could be methodically evaluated.
 
2014-02-28 12:30:17 PM

nmrsnr: How about we standardize the strike zone via automation? Maybe if the strike zone didn't fluctuate wildly depending on pitch count then the balance between pitching and hitting could be methodically evaluated.


That was a really awesome read. This being Fark, I am sure someone will waltz in and tell me how wrong all the graphs are and how wrong every bit of math he does is, but regardless....thanks for the link. Good stuff.
 
2014-02-28 12:31:12 PM
Time to lower the mound again.
 
2014-02-28 12:32:33 PM
Just let them hit off a tee already, you know you want to.
 
2014-02-28 12:41:06 PM

Crewmannumber6: Just let them hit off a tee already, you know you want to.


I was going to say soft pitch underhand, but some of the hackmeisters might still find a way to strike out... so you win.
 
2014-02-28 12:41:14 PM

nmrsnr: How about we standardize the strike zone via automation? Maybe if the strike zone didn't fluctuate wildly depending on pitch count then the balance between pitching and hitting could be methodically evaluated.


This, absolutely
 
2014-02-28 12:42:20 PM
1. Automated ball and strike calls.
2. Enforce rule 8.04

That starts to fix things.
 
2014-02-28 12:44:17 PM
Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.
 
2014-02-28 12:44:50 PM

kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.


If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.
 
2014-02-28 12:49:36 PM

Uzzah: Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.


Yeah, but for that the small, round bat won't be any good, so you'd need to change the bat shape so that it's broader and flatter.
Plus, with bouncing pitches, it's way to unpredictable and dangerous for a catcher back there, so we should probably replace him with some sort of backstop.
 
2014-02-28 12:50:00 PM

Uzzah: Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.


What you did there, I see it.
 
2014-02-28 12:50:20 PM

nmrsnr: How about we standardize the strike zone via automation? Maybe if the strike zone didn't fluctuate wildly depending on pitch count then the balance between pitching and hitting could be methodically evaluated.


Why not just print some spreadsheets or have robots do everything?

Taking out the human part of balls & strikes just doesnt seem very much like baseball.

/kicks clay in your direction
 
2014-02-28 12:50:59 PM
I have two suggestions:

1. No one is allowed to use gloves
2. You know how if you have a weird number of people in a pickup game, one guy just pitches to both teams? Just make the Twins pitch every game.
 
2014-02-28 12:54:09 PM
Considering runs per game is still pretty high historically, I don't think we need to eliminate strike outs.

People are hitting HRs or King more often instead of base hits and grounding out.
 
2014-02-28 01:00:50 PM

Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.


I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
 
2014-02-28 01:02:55 PM

Guelph35: Uzzah: Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.

What you did there, I see it.


*crickets*
 
2014-02-28 01:05:54 PM

DeWayne Mann: I have two suggestions:

1. No one is allowed to use gloves
2. You know how if you have a weird number of people in a pickup game, one guy just pitches to both teams? Just make the Twins pitch every game.


Don't be like that, the Twins shouldn't make me binge-drink until the season starts!
 
2014-02-28 01:06:43 PM

Unoriginal_Username: Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.

I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.


You would be 100% correct if all 'roids did was build strength and endurance. But then why was Clemons such a big fan? The other part of the equation is that they help you recover from soreness and mild injury much more quickly. But yeah, if you can't hit a ball for shiat and start lifting weights it sure as hell isn't going to improve your accuracy, but the recovery stuff helps you practice better and longer.
 
2014-02-28 01:06:58 PM

legion_of_doo: Why not just print some spreadsheets or have robots do everything?


Because administration of the rules should not be capricious or arbitrary. The fact that Galarraga doesn't have a perfect game because Joyce had a bad day is not a feature, it's a bug.

Play, on the other hand, should be about the players and their abilities, the rules provide a framework, but should never insinuate themselves as a participant.

The concept that bad calls are somehow part of the "tradition" of baseball has always confused me. The calls should be made correctly, anything that aids that is a good thing.
 
2014-02-28 01:08:21 PM

Unoriginal_Username: Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.

I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.


This is one of the main reason for me that steroid use want that big of a deal. You still have to hit the ball.
Maybe we can have mandatory steroid injections like blernsball
 
2014-02-28 01:09:40 PM

regindyn: DeWayne Mann: I have two suggestions:

1. No one is allowed to use gloves
2. You know how if you have a weird number of people in a pickup game, one guy just pitches to both teams? Just make the Twins pitch every game.

Don't be like that, the Twins shouldn't make me binge-drink until the season starts!


Hey, look on the bright side: at least their batters had the second most Ks last year.

Wait
 
2014-02-28 01:13:16 PM

Unoriginal_Username: Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.

I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.


I hate when I listen to sports talk radio and roids are brought. There is a school of thought that believe exactly what you stated above. "Roids doesn't help with contact." False, it does help with contact because of the increased bat speed meaning you can sit on pitches longer.
 
2014-02-28 01:13:28 PM

Uzzah: Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.


I might be missing the joke, but... isn't this cricket?
 
2014-02-28 01:17:04 PM

mjones71822: Unoriginal_Username: Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.

I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

This is one of the main reason for me that steroid use want that big of a deal. You still have to hit the ball.
Maybe we can have mandatory steroid injections like blernsball


Pitches are drastically slower when taking roids because of increased bat speed. Roided batters can sit on pitches longer thus making contact more achievable.
 
2014-02-28 01:20:11 PM
Unoriginal_Username:  Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?

I'll be honest, I've seen this line of reasoning before and it makes zero sense to me.
 
2014-02-28 01:20:59 PM
So this article writer talks about Three True Outcomes. I did a bit of Googling, but I can't figure out what he's getting at with maintaining a balance. Is he saying there's been a study that suggests the amount of walks, dingers, and k's should be about equal? Like, the fans have spoken and they like a balanced TTO? I'd never seen TTO before so I'm not at all familiar. Anyone wanna chime in?
 
2014-02-28 01:22:57 PM
Expand the strike zone but limit the number of pitches a batter can take.

Instead of the batter watching the first two pitches 'to make the pitcher throw more and tire him out' the batter will have to swing more.

The strike zone would have to be expanded but not so large as the batter has no chance to make contact.
 
2014-02-28 01:23:04 PM

Super Chronic: Unoriginal_Username:  Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?

I'll be honest, I've seen this line of reasoning before and it makes zero sense to me.


If your hands are stronger and your bat speed is faster, a shot off the end of the bat that is a can of corn to left is now in the seats.
 
2014-02-28 01:24:39 PM

Uzzah: Some more ideas:

-Lower the strike zone. Make it from ground level to about the batter's waist. Line drives and fly balls (the result of swinging up at the ball) are more exciting than ground balls (the result of swinging down).
-Eliminate the pitcher's mound entirely. Instead, let the pitcher get a running start and deliver the ball on the fly. Puts athleticism back into pitching.
-Let pitches that bounce off the ground still be in play. Allowing some bouncing into the mix opens up pitch options beyond the existing fastball/curveball/offspeed boredom.
-Widen the foul lines dramatically. Put more balls in play.


Replace the plate with a 3-D "strike zone" perhaps made out of wooden stakes or similar
 
2014-02-28 01:31:29 PM
I don't know if there's any real data that shows park size over the years, but the impression is they are getting smaller.

Also fielders are getting better, more athletic, and cover more ground.

Both of these would lead to lower numbers of singles and lower numbers of triples, which has happened significantly on a steady basis.

This would lead to the most effective way to score runs is to hit HRs.. which have increased at an inverse rate.

If you're trying to hit more HRs, you'll probably strike out more... very similar increase to HRs.
 
2014-02-28 01:32:27 PM
I'm all about reducing the number of strikeouts in baseball... at least until the Phillies get rid of Ryan Howard.
 
2014-02-28 01:33:36 PM

nmrsnr: How about we standardize the strike zone via automation? Maybe if the strike zone didn't fluctuate wildly depending on pitch count then the balance between pitching and hitting could be methodically evaluated.


Maybe they could institute some sort of wooden marker, about waist high, designating when a pitch is on-target and hittable? And put a couple of small pieces on that wood so if the batter swings and misses, it's immediately clear that it was a strike when the small wood pieces fall off?

sites.psu.edu
 
2014-02-28 01:35:58 PM
Idea: it's fine as it is
 
2014-02-28 01:37:24 PM

This Looks Fun: So this article writer talks about Three True Outcomes. I did a bit of Googling, but I can't figure out what he's getting at with maintaining a balance. Is he saying there's been a study that suggests the amount of walks, dingers, and k's should be about equal? Like, the fans have spoken and they like a balanced TTO? I'd never seen TTO before so I'm not at all familiar. Anyone wanna chime in?


He's talking about the balance between TTO and non-TTO. The idea being that too many TTOs would be boring to watch, but not enough would basically be deadball-era baseball (with fewer errors).
 
2014-02-28 01:43:43 PM

MugzyBrown: Super Chronic: Unoriginal_Username:  Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?

I'll be honest, I've seen this line of reasoning before and it makes zero sense to me.

If your hands are stronger and your bat speed is faster, a shot off the end of the bat that is a can of corn to left is now in the seats.


I agree. The line of reasoning that makes zero sense to me is, in essence, "it doesn't help in one aspect of the game, ergo it's completely irrelevant."
 
2014-02-28 01:46:47 PM

show me: Unoriginal_Username: Shtetl G: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: I also saw a lot of hitting. This has been a hitter's league in recent memory.

The league batting average is at its lowest point in 25 years.

If only there was some type of medication available to make players bigger, stronger, and faster.

I'm curious about something. The other day while listening to sports radio, they mentioned Bonds. Now, we all know he allegedly juiced which helped his HR record. They also mentioned how he was incredible in that he could hit anything sent his way. I'm assuming that 'roids only helped with the power behind the swing, not being able to line it up and actually make contact with the ball. Is that what the big grievance is? His being able to hit the ball harder then most? If it is, then it wouldn't matter what guys were taking. If you can't hit the ball, it doesn't matter how hard you swing right?
I ask this as someone who isn't a fan of baseball.

anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

You would be 100% correct if all 'roids did was build strength and endurance. But then why was Clemons such a big fan? The other part of the equation is that they help you recover from soreness and mild injury much more quickly. But yeah, if you can't hit a ball for shiat and start lifting weights it sure as hell isn't going to improve your accuracy, but the recovery stuff helps you practice better and longer.


It also keeps you sharp throughout the season. Fatigue can be a problem when the season is half the year.
 
2014-02-28 01:47:18 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed the cricket threadjacking.  Way more fun to watch that than a baseball game.
 
2014-02-28 01:48:07 PM

legion_of_doo: Crewmannumber6: Just let them hit off a tee already, you know you want to.

I was going to say soft pitch underhand, but some of the hackmeisters might still find a way to strike out... so you win.


Um, I've seen people strike out on tees before, as well. Foul ball, foul ball, mighty swing and miss.  Granted, these were the same kids who would go on to have .300 batting averages in coach/machine pitch leagues (league averages were usually closer to .500) and even lower in actual pitching leagues.

/Can't talk too much shiat, I batted .000 one season in kid pitch.
//With an OBP of .842-ish (16/19, all walks with about 8 HBP, 2 SO, 1 fielder's choice)
///Finished with over 40 steals, though, despite getting only 2 at bats in a game if I was lucky
 
2014-02-28 01:58:02 PM
Meh, I'm not easily bored with dominant pitching. It's part of the game and when a pitcher is truly *on*, it's a sight to see. Like when Doug Fister struck out 9 batters in a row in 2012, and then his wheels completely came off a couple innings later. It's just baseball.
 
2014-02-28 01:58:23 PM

DeWayne Mann: This Looks Fun: So this article writer talks about Three True Outcomes. I did a bit of Googling, but I can't figure out what he's getting at with maintaining a balance. Is he saying there's been a study that suggests the amount of walks, dingers, and k's should be about equal? Like, the fans have spoken and they like a balanced TTO? I'd never seen TTO before so I'm not at all familiar. Anyone wanna chime in?

He's talking about the balance between TTO and non-TTO. The idea being that too many TTOs would be boring to watch, but not enough would basically be deadball-era baseball (with fewer errors).


I've always wanted to go back in time and see a deadball game. Bunts, squeezes, lots of stolen bases, racist banter, fisticuffs, players charging into the stands...what's not to like?  Plus you'd be done in an hour and a half.
 
2014-02-28 02:00:57 PM
Clicked the link and saw Adam Dunn as his poster boy and quit reading it. As long as umps call inconsistent balls/strikes what's the point of fixing anything else? I like to think myself a traditionalist but I'm ready for an electronic strike zone, it's no worse than having different rules for each league.
 
2014-02-28 02:07:25 PM
A) It's the NUMBER of strikeouts, subby.  Not the "amount."

B) This is the natural result since teams started valuing pitcher strikeouts above pretty much everything else while also realizing that strikeouts aren't as big of a deal for hitters as we always thought.  They're not bad for the game, we're just valuing them differently now.
 
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