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(Mother Jones)   The squirrelliest Snowden theory yet is "The Snowden Operation" and involves Snowden being recruited by the Russians to leak the NSA documents   (motherjones.com) divider line 91
    More: Unlikely, NSA, Russians, NSA documents, Jacob Appelbaum, Russian intelligence, documents  
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442 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Feb 2014 at 1:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-28 01:16:20 PM  
That's stupid.   It was Obama that recruited him.
 
2014-02-28 01:24:36 PM  
Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?
 
2014-02-28 01:25:34 PM  
Thanks Putin!
 
2014-02-28 01:26:18 PM  
Snowden.
 
2014-02-28 01:27:09 PM  

qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?



Maybe Snowden is the kind of guy who doesn't always do what he's told?
 
2014-02-28 01:27:28 PM  
Lots of nations have a lot to gain by the US government's dirty laundry aired.  But one of those nations is the US, so I don't need a conspiracy to explain it.
 
2014-02-28 01:28:01 PM  
Snowdengazi!
 
2014-02-28 01:33:56 PM  
Nah, he's just a traitor.
 
2014-02-28 01:37:30 PM  

voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.


yep, and same with anyone who was against the Iraq war.
 
2014-02-28 01:37:31 PM  

voran: Nah, he's just a traitor Paultard.

 
2014-02-28 01:39:14 PM  

qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?


Maybe he screwed it up?
 
2014-02-28 01:39:49 PM  
Wait, I had something for this....

...Operation Snowed In.
 
2014-02-28 01:40:33 PM  

voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.


Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?
 
2014-02-28 01:41:09 PM  
The alarming truth: Snowden was janitorial level IT and made off with all of our secrets because our security sucks, our technology is junk, and our government is run by idiots.
 
2014-02-28 01:42:54 PM  

qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?


If you look at the timeline, Snowden was being investigated by the Feds before he was publicly named as Greenwald's source. The plan might have been for him to "whistleblow" for longer than he did but because the heat was on, he had to flee in a hurry.

The Manning case proved that you can muddy the waters if your spy decides to proclaim themselves a heroic whistleblower martyr being persecuted by totalitarian United States Government Imperialism, lots of gullible tech guys will come out of the woodwork to defend it no matter how damaging because INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE. Also too Obama=Bush.

I mean, you'd think out of all the documents that Snowden grabbed, there's got to be *something* remotely embarrassing to Russia, right? Instead, Greenwald is fluffing Putin and the technolibertarian crowd is screeching that Russia's "anti-gay" laws are being misportrayed by "western propaganda".

Ames and Hansen should be putting up whitehouse.gov petitions calling for a pardon for exposing illegal American intelligence activities overseas. God knows there's enough suckers that will eat that narrative up nowadays.
 
2014-02-28 01:43:23 PM  
Its Putin's benghazi
 
2014-02-28 01:44:51 PM  
It's very hard not to believe that there is a secret cabal of the most powerful men in the world running things, when there is a semi-secret cabal of the most powerful men in the world running things.

The only difference is that in the tinfoil conspiracies, these men are ruthless, cold, and calculating. In reality, they're not gods. Not giants. Just men. They're just as petty, as angry, as envious, as drunk, addicted, sick, and horny like the rest of us.

And we can overcome that.
 
2014-02-28 01:45:20 PM  
Seems far fetched.  But the very notion that Snowden is a Russian spy does fill me with disgust, and moves my Overton window slightly towards disliking him more.

Almost to the point where I give the NSA a pass for their spying!
 
2014-02-28 01:49:27 PM  

Headso: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

yep, and same with anyone who was against the Iraq war.


If someone enlisted in the Army was against the Iraq War, and demonstrated that belief by shooting his fellow soldiers or sabotaging their operations, then yes, that person would be a traitor.
 
2014-02-28 01:52:46 PM  
The people calling Snowden a traitor or a spy are about as rational as the truthers and the birthers.

It doesn't matter how much you slap them in the face with facts, they live in their own little world of unreality and nothing will change it.
 
2014-02-28 01:54:22 PM  

Aexia: The Manning case proved that you can muddy the waters if your spy decides to proclaim themselves a heroic whistleblower martyr being persecuted by totalitarian United States Government Imperialism, lots of gullible tech guys will come out of the woodwork to defend it no matter how damaging because INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE. Also too Obama=Bush.


Not quite.  I think the primary objection in Manning's case was that as taxpaying American citizens, we are funding indiscriminate violence (against an AP reporter in the Collateral damage video) and other instances inappropriate military actions that breach the rules of engagement.  And that the military is covering them up as "top secret" protecting the perpetrators from prosecution.  As an American taxpayer I have a right to know if my hard earned money is being used to perform crimes against humanity.
 
2014-02-28 01:54:36 PM  

Arkanaut: Headso: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

yep, and same with anyone who was against the Iraq war.

If someone enlisted in the Army was against the Iraq War, and demonstrated that belief by shooting his fellow soldiers or sabotaging their operations, then yes, that person would be a traitor.


What if he gave everyone the heads up on a illegal or borderline illegal operation?  Like, say, us in Pakistan when we got Bin Laden?  That was an illegal raid.

We shouldn't have been there.  We compromised our principles for our interests.  Fark that.

I think it'd take a hero to say "our principles of truth and law must outweigh our fear, go tell Bin Laden that we are here."
 
2014-02-28 01:58:21 PM  
So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.
 
2014-02-28 02:02:25 PM  

Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.


He ran to foreign countries to escape persecution at home.  The laptops full of classified information were shared with the free press, not with any foreign government.  Are the editorial staff of the New York Times also traitors?  After all, it was the press that ultimately shared that information with foreign governments.
 
2014-02-28 02:04:06 PM  

Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.


Why do I even bother...

1. He didn't run to Russia with classified info, he already had handed it over to Greenwald before going to Russia.

2. He didn't even run to Russia, his flight had a layover in Russia when the U.S. pulled his passport and stranded Snowden there.
 
2014-02-28 02:08:44 PM  
Uh, the guy who wrote this is the editor of MichaelMoore.com, and therefore a commie stooge (yay General Turgidson!) So of course he'd dismiss this hard-hitting expose of the dastardly reds.

/ hope nobody thinks that was serious
 
2014-02-28 02:10:44 PM  
Under what circumstances is one justified in making the decision to ignore their contract with whatever authority gave them access to classified data and spill the beans?  Never?  When it involves murder?  How about genocide?  What if it involves clear beaches of a nations' constitution?

Sometimes "I was just following orders" is not good enough and you have to grow a pair and take a moral stand, even if it means betraying other commitments you have made.
 
2014-02-28 02:15:37 PM  

sendtodave: Seems far fetched.  But the very notion that Snowden is a Russian spy does fill me with disgust, and moves my Overton window slightly towards disliking him more.

Almost to the point where I give the NSA a pass for their spying!


Well, you moved my Overton window on you.
 
2014-02-28 02:21:44 PM  

wesmon: Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.

Why do I even bother...

1. He didn't run to Russia with classified info, he already had handed it over to Greenwald before going to Russia.

2. He didn't even run to Russia, his flight had a layover in Russia when the U.S. pulled his passport and stranded Snowden there.


So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money?
Are they doing it out of the crunchy goodness of Putin's heart?

I haven't trusted Snowden since I read his comments about Manning... you know, how he should be hung up by his balls and all.
He didn't seem to have a problem with anything the NSA was doing when G.W. Bush was in office.
And truly he didn't "reveal" anything I didn't assume the US was doing already, 'cause, you know, Terrorism.
He comes off as extremely pompous and self righteous in every interview I hear yet seems to have no interest making anything better, just blackening the eye of the USA. Hope he likes Russia, because I seriously doubt he will ever, ever be coming back here.
 
2014-02-28 02:23:33 PM  

yakmans_dad: sendtodave: Seems far fetched.  But the very notion that Snowden is a Russian spy does fill me with disgust, and moves my Overton window slightly towards disliking him more.

Almost to the point where I give the NSA a pass for their spying!

Well, you moved my Overton window on you.


That's a unfortunately byproduct of good propaganda.

People might believe it.
 
2014-02-28 02:34:39 PM  

illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?


That's classified.
 
2014-02-28 02:46:34 PM  

voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.


Oxford New Newer English Dictionary:

TRAITOR; noun: heroic individual sacrificing personal safety to fulfill a patriotic obligation to undermine corporatist authoritarian violations of a constitutional democracy's enumerated and inalienable individual rights.
 
2014-02-28 02:50:19 PM  

Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.


And there's a name for those espousing the above sentiments. "Nutless coward apologists for grievous abuse of state power".

Or twatwaffles. Take your pick.
 
2014-02-28 04:15:55 PM  
Everybody knows that Snowden is a CIA double agent giving our enemies false information.
 
2014-02-28 04:37:50 PM  

illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?


After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.
 
2014-02-28 04:44:10 PM  

Captain Darling: qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?


Maybe Snowden is the kind of guy who doesn't always do what he's told?


He would've been dead already.
 
2014-02-28 04:44:33 PM  

Boo Radley: illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?

After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.


That was one of the reasons Snowden turned em over to journalists instead of just dumping the documents online Ala Wikileaks. So they could be gone through and vetted.

But feel free to keep manufacturing outrage at something that didn't happen.
 
2014-02-28 04:45:51 PM  
It appears as if the New York Times, in its latest publication of leaked NSA documents, failed to properly redact the PDF it uploaded, exposing the name of the NSA agent who composed the presentation as well as the name of a targeted network.

People should stop maintaining the fiction that Snowden has made any effort to redact names from the document troves he's given to various media sources. Those names are out there in the wild, only a fool would keep lying to themselves and pretending that certain hostile foreign intelligence agencies don't have them as a result of his actions.
 
2014-02-28 04:46:04 PM  

qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?


Because he didn't capture a snippet of data, he took huge swaths. Leaving him in place would accomplish little as far as additional data. Additionally, someone had to disseminate the information and the Russian government certainly wouldn't do it. Better to let the asset do it and take the heat.

And would snow den really leave a cushy six figure salary job to be an international fugitive because his conscience was bothering him, or did he have assurances of a soft landing if he did? Maybe snowdens version is all there is to it, but we will likely never really know.
 
2014-02-28 04:51:01 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.

And there's a name for those espousing the above sentiments. "Nutless coward apologists for grievous abuse of state power".

Or twatwaffles. Take your pick.


LOL random insults I can get anywhere on the web, Fark I come to for a something a bit more thought out.

Look, I'm not personally looking to hang the guy... I do question his motives though, in a big way.
 
2014-02-28 04:54:29 PM  

illogic: Under what circumstances is one justified in making the decision to ignore their contract with whatever authority gave them access to classified data and spill the beans?  Never?  When it involves murder?  How about genocide?  What if it involves clear beaches of a nations' constitution?

Sometimes "I was just following orders" is not good enough and you have to grow a pair and take a moral stand, even if it means betraying other commitments you have made.


i5.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-28 04:55:09 PM  

wesmon: Boo Radley: illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?

After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

That was one of the reasons Snowden turned em over to journalists instead of just dumping the documents online Ala Wikileaks. So they could be gone through and vetted.

But feel free to keep manufacturing outrage at something that didn't happen.


You are amazingly credulous of the ability of an untold number of journalists to keep needed data secure. Snowden has put American lives at risk, your weird faith in every single journalist who's received his documents notwithstanding.
 
2014-02-28 04:55:57 PM  
Well you can question his motives and I can question your intelligence since you keep parroting lies about the Snowden case while ignoring facts.
 
2014-02-28 04:59:58 PM  

Boo Radley: SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.


Interesting, certainly the first I've heard of any such thing.  I'm still not convinced that Snowden can simply be dismissed as a "traitor".  Much of what was released was concerned with domestic surveillance which is something I strongly believe the government should be honest about with it's constituents.
 
2014-02-28 05:00:23 PM  

Print'sNotDead: Serious Post on Serious Thread: Print'sNotDead: So as of now who is paying for his room and board and providing him with spending money? They didn't need to recruit him, he came to them... and there is a name for people that run to foreign governments with laptops full of classified information, and that name is traitor.

And there's a name for those espousing the above sentiments. "Nutless coward apologists for grievous abuse of state power".

Or twatwaffles. Take your pick.

LOL random insults I can get anywhere on the web, Fark I come to for a something a bit more thought out.

Look, I'm not personally looking to hang the guy... I do question his motives though, in a big way.


Wait wait wait...you come to fark for what now?
 
2014-02-28 05:01:13 PM  

Boo Radley: wesmon: Boo Radley: illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?

After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

That was one of the reasons Snowden turned em over to journalists instead of just dumping the documents online Ala Wikileaks. So they could be gone through and vetted.

But feel free to keep manufacturing outrage at something that didn't happen.

You are amazingly credulous of the ability of an untold number of journalists to keep needed data secure. Snowden has put American lives at risk, your weird faith in every single journalist who's received his documents notwithstanding.


Some journalists are routinely privy to information that can be damaging to government. In this case he didn't hand it over to untold number of journalists, just a select few.

It is interesting to see how the Guardian has handled the information. They basically have set up a secure location with no cell phones or outside electronic devices for the journalists involved to go over the documents because they want there to be no chance of something harmful leaking.
 
2014-02-28 05:02:37 PM  
This latest round has created a new term in the conspiracy community that is the "cool" meme: Limited Hangout.

That's the group that believes Snowden and Greenwald are in on it, but releasing just enough information that you suckers think you know what's going on.

Funny stuff. Look around any of the conspiracy forums and that's the hot new term that everyone is using.

And they call other people sheep...
 
2014-02-28 05:03:47 PM  

wesmon: Boo Radley: illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?

After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

That was one of the reasons Snowden turned em over to journalists instead of just dumping the documents online Ala Wikileaks. So they could be gone through and vetted.

But feel free to keep manufacturing outrage at something that didn't happen.


Have a citation where Snowden makes this assertion?
 
2014-02-28 05:06:03 PM  

Captain Darling: qorkfiend: Oh, for god's sake. The Russians are not morons, especially when it comes to espionage. If you think the Russians went through all that trouble, why the fark would they have him out himself and throw away a perfectly good asset?


Maybe Snowden is the kind of guy who doesn't always do what he's told?


Perhaps he fulfilled his usefulness as an intelligence gathering asset and then became expendable, or maybe more valuable as an embarrassment to the US?

Personally I find these ideas silly, and given that Snowden goes and hides out in the two nations the NSA has basically been taking inspiration from he's no idealist. Dude's just a troll, and a dumb shortsighted one at that.
 
2014-02-28 05:08:44 PM  

mediablitz: wesmon: Boo Radley: illogic: voran: Nah, he's just a traitor.

Oh please do explain.  Did Snowden put any American lives or military operations at risk?

After seeing Snowden docs supplied to them by Laura Poitras, Der Spiegel sure seems to think so:

SPIEGEL has decided not to publish details it has seen about secret operations that could endanger the lives of NSA workers. Nor is it publishing the related internal code words.

That was one of the reasons Snowden turned em over to journalists instead of just dumping the documents online Ala Wikileaks. So they could be gone through and vetted.

But feel free to keep manufacturing outrage at something that didn't happen.

Have a citation where Snowden makes this assertion?


No link cause it was a live interview with Greenwald where he said Snowden specifically wanted to find a journalist to turn the info over to so they could go through it and pick out what to publish and what to not reveal.

But it only makes sense since he could have gone the Wikileaks route and just dumped all the data into the public domain if he had wanted to.
 
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