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(Orlando Sentinel)   SeaWorld sues OSHA investigator for daring to expose their horrifying, unsafe workplace to the public   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 66
    More: Florida, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, SeaWorld, Dawn Brancheau, researchers, Tilikum, U.S. Department of Labor  
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7919 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 10:22 AM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-28 01:03:21 PM

netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical

I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.

....and yet you replied.


And yet you're trollin'
 
2014-02-28 01:08:07 PM
Im getting a vibe that some people would rather whole species go extinct rather than have a zoo/wild animal park/whatever keep an animal in captivity.

/yes I realize theres a world of difference between Seaworld and your average Zoo
 
2014-02-28 01:17:45 PM
Watched Blackfish last week.  I realize it's a haigography, yet I find it impossible to dismiss the movies message entirely.  I guess the question really becomes this:  For whose benefit are these animals, be them Killer Whales in tanks or lions in the most progressive zoos, kept in their artifical environments?

When you consider the range that a KW has in the wild, having a tank, no matter how generously sized, is going to be like living in a hot-tub.  That all of them don't go nuts is a surprise, I'd say.

In the case of zoos, some are better, some are worse - I will say that the most popular event at the SF zoo was lion feeding time, done in an old fashioned 'cage' actually their sleeping pen building.  so popular that when they stopped it, attendance took a measurable dive.

There is, I suppose an arguement to be made for captive breeding programs, but somehow, no matter how nice the habitat, they are still animals in cages and I don't really like seeing that so much any more.
 
2014-02-28 01:22:21 PM

netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical

I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.

....and yet you replied.


I reply to provide a safe line of reasoning for lurkers and other readers, just as this response is a notification of intent.

As for the follow-up posts concerning 'and yet you're trolling', Netcentric isn't a troll, they're incapable of properly constructing a reasonable foundation that stands up against any measure of scrutiny, thereby signalling a lack of capability with regards to trolling.  Typical 4chan/Reddit generation behavior.  They're not trolls, but they love to think of themselves as one.
 
2014-02-28 01:48:29 PM
Blackfish was good, but definitely very emotional. There is a good Frontline documentary released in the 90s or early 2000s (it's on youtube) covering the same issues but more factual. I definitely agree that there is an ethical issue with keeping animals (like orcas, elephants, great apes) with near-human intelligence and complex social structures in captivity like that. The OSHA investigation worries me though.  There have been 4 or 5 deaths and a few score injuries in ~30 years? This to OSHA means that working with the Orcas is fundamentally unsafe and can't continue.

I work with horses. You probably see 4 or 5 jockey deaths worldwide every year, as well as several deaths in 3 day eventing and showjumping. Not to mention the things that go on "behind the scenes," I knew of a woman who was leading a horse and got struck right in the chest and died of a heart attack. I myself have had 6 concussions due to riding or handling, a hip injury, and carpal tunnel in both wrists partially due to landing on my hands. I don't know of any professional riders or trainers that haven't broken at least one bone in their career. Yes horses are fundamentally dangerous but people that have made their careers in this business know that and do it anyway. I fear an OSHA ruling against Seaworld would really set a bad precedent.
 
2014-02-28 01:52:38 PM
Expected Sea Parks pic, did not deliver.

27.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-28 03:37:25 PM

People_are_Idiots: Mugato: While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?

As long as I can sue Universal to release it on Blu-Ray 3D, since NONE of the companies seem to wanna release the true 3D films in 3D.


I saw it in the theater when I was 5 and you're not missing anything.
 
2014-02-28 03:39:34 PM

kbronsito: That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.


They are part black, and part "white-hispanic". And the shouldn't have been wearing a hoodie.
 
2014-02-28 05:07:16 PM

netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]


40% of Americans never leave the place they are born.  Animals of all kinds don't like moving.  They only move when they run out of resources in the place they are living.  As long as an animal is provided for, treated well, has enough space and is cared for by competent people, then I have no problem with Zoos or Sanctuaries.  Most of these places run education programs so that they can help the wild animal populations grow, as well.  Zoos in the US aren't the houses of horror they used to be.
 
2014-02-28 07:15:54 PM

bborchar: 40% of Americans never leave the place they are born. Animals of all kinds don't like moving. They only move when they run out of resources in the place they are living. As long as an animal is provided for, treated well, has enough space and is cared for by competent people, then I have no problem with Zoos or Sanctuaries. Most of these places run education programs so that they can help the wild animal populations grow, as well. Zoos in the US aren't the houses of horror they used to be.


This.  As to who profits or benefits from zoos, zoos around the world have two important functions these days.  First, they help educate the public about the natural history and vulnerability of wildlife from around the world to human impacts.  In doing so, they allow many people to see the semi-natural behaviors of many animal species that they would not otherwise be able to understand.  The motivation for this is summed up nicely by the Senegalese conservationist, Baba Dioum:

"In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught."

By presenting these animals to folks who would otherwise not be familiar with them (and TV specials aren't enough), zoos help those people want to care about the well being of those animals.  That contributes directly to their conservation and preservation in the wild.

Second, as has already been stated, zoos form a genetic repository, where endangered species can be bred in captivity for the goal of repopulation.  Right now, this isn't done so much with the big charismatic species like mammals because simply releasing a few zoo captives won't do any good for the population, at least not until poachers and deforestation are brought under control.  It is done to great effect with small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians.  The St. Louis Zoo for example recently has begun breeding Ozark Hellbenders in captivity for the first time, which may be essential for their continued survival because they are almost totally extinct in the wild.  Taronga Zoo in Sydney, Australia has a number of similar projects for several Australian frog species that have almost totally disappeared from the wild due to humans spreading chytrid fungus.  Many other zoos are working on similar efforts to preserve captive populations of frogs from the Amazon and Central American cloud forests that have gone completely extinct in the wild.

Aquaria are also getting into the act.  The Chattanooga aquarium in Tennessee has a massive collection of turtle species from around the world, some of which are down to less than 100 individuals in the wild and are likely to go extinct in the next decade.  Captive breeding may be the only way to preserve these species.

These are the goals that are paid for by the profits made by zoos.  They aren't just animals in cages.  It's also worth pointing out that reproduction is often the first behavior that animals won't do if they are stressed in captivity.  Thus, for a zoo/aquarium to promote the captive breeding of endangered species, they must go to very great lengths indeed to ensure that the species they are working with are healthy and happy enough to be willing to make babies.
 
2014-02-28 09:38:28 PM

shazbotuh: vicioushobbit kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.

Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.

wut?

notsureifserious.jpq

that applies to both you farkers.

/eyeroll


I was trying a new method, where I respond to a troll in a troll-like language.  My attempt to communicate.

The bit I bolded is true, though.  Best as I can remember, it's been a while since I saw Blackfish.
 
2014-02-28 09:46:52 PM

vicioushobbit: shazbotuh: vicioushobbit kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.

Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.

wut?

notsureifserious.jpq

that applies to both you farkers.

/eyeroll

I was trying a new method, where I respond to a troll in a troll-like language.  My attempt to communicate.

The bit I bolded is true, though.  Best as I can remember, it's been a while since I saw Blackfish.


I think I need to recalibrate my troll/sarcasm readers. They're on the fritz.

Point taken though- you're right about the origin of the blackfish title.
 
2014-02-28 11:40:01 PM
All it took me to take Blackfish's word over Sea World's was seeing a collapsed fin (shiat you never see in the wild) and how Sea World gets it's orca (I always thought it sought orphaned orca, injured/abandoned orca, or naturally bred them rather than basically destroy orca families or rape them).

My parents took me to see Shamu every year in Aurora OH as a kid growing up and loving animals dearly, Sea World was a place I had a huge love for and donated to as I got older. Sadly it seems I've been lied to the whole time and that angers me.
 
2014-02-28 11:45:25 PM

JDJoeE: Im getting a vibe that some people would rather whole species go extinct rather than have a zoo/wild animal park/whatever keep an animal in captivity.

/yes I realize theres a world of difference between Seaworld and your average Zoo


You make it seem like there's only these two options, when in reality, there's more than enough orca in the world that these aren't even really options at all, which just makes me wonder if you're an idiot or something.

When you can breed and clone, there's really no reason to ever relegate an entire species to captivity. Not that orca are even close to that sort of endangerment yet.
 
2014-02-28 11:52:41 PM

Mugato: People_are_Idiots: Mugato: While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?

As long as I can sue Universal to release it on Blu-Ray 3D, since NONE of the companies seem to wanna release the true 3D films in 3D.

I saw it in the theater when I was 5 and you're not missing anything.


I saw it when I was 8, and I loved the 3D. Movie sucks, but the 3D was great.
 
2014-03-01 01:26:09 AM
Wow, I just tried to watch the Blackfish movie on Netflix but couldn't get past the 13:00-minute mark, where the show the footage of the capture of the young orcas, even after the parents tried to outsmart the humans.

I'm such a sap.
 
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