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(Orlando Sentinel)   SeaWorld sues OSHA investigator for daring to expose their horrifying, unsafe workplace to the public   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 66
    More: Florida, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, SeaWorld, Dawn Brancheau, researchers, Tilikum, U.S. Department of Labor  
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7934 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 10:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-28 09:22:57 AM  
It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,
 
2014-02-28 09:42:27 AM  
They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.
 
2014-02-28 09:50:59 AM  

Prey4reign: Free Willie and the rest of them.


Weren't there like 4 movies and a tv show about Free Willie? If the dumbass fish keeps getting caught maybe he likes it there and things aren't so bad after all.

While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?
 
2014-02-28 10:15:11 AM  

Mugato: Prey4reign: Free Willie and the rest of them.

Weren't there like 4 movies and a tv show about Free Willie? If the dumbass fish keeps getting caught maybe he likes it there and things aren't so bad after all.

While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?


It's either a case of Stockholm Syndrome or the producers were milking that cow/whale for all it was worth.
 
2014-02-28 10:27:52 AM  

Mugato: Prey4reign: Free Willie and the rest of them.

Weren't there like 4 movies and a tv show about Free Willie? If the dumbass fish keeps getting caught maybe he likes it there and things aren't so bad after all.

While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?


Maybe he likes Fish Sticks...
 
2014-02-28 10:31:24 AM  

Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.



 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.
 
2014-02-28 10:32:12 AM  

macross87: Maybe he likes Fish Sticks...


So... He's a gay fish?
 
2014-02-28 10:38:24 AM  

Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.


If they can prove the OSHA investigator provided confidential company documents to a third party in violation of the law, they'd absolutely have a case.
 
2014-02-28 10:38:45 AM  

Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,


That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.
 
2014-02-28 10:40:05 AM  

netcentric: Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.


 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.


Zoos usually operate as educational centers, and have a high standard of animal care. Animal-based theme parks and circuses, not so much.
 
2014-02-28 10:41:32 AM  
SeaWorld Entertainment Inc. on Thursday filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Labor, asking the agency to examine the conduct of an investigator who led the probe into SeaWorld's safety practices following the death of an Orlando trainer killed by a park killer whale in 2010.

I dunno. You see "Killer Whale" you should be prepared for a killing. Huggy Whale? No. Unless they hug you to death. I guess that I would go to Sea World to watch a Hug You to Death Whale.
 
2014-02-28 10:42:47 AM  

netcentric: Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.


 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.


Personally, I just have a hard time believing anybody can have enough space to keep a whale happy.  I mean, look how much space they are required to give elephants, zebras, giraffes...freaking acres.  They also tend to be allowed to stay with their young, grow old with them, etc, because space is generally available.

With whales, not so much.  A whale is given significantly less space, proportionally to their body, to exercise and move around.  They are very, very rarely allowed to keep their young for long, and "pods" are really little more than mismatched bits of broken families.  The whales are also being forced to do tricks, unlike say, the sea anemones, jellyfish, and other creatures being kept.

It's one thing to profit off the view and exploration of a creature, and quite another to enslave it to do tricks for its food.  I'll go to zoos, and i'll criticize the hell out of them if I feel the animals aren't being provided enough space or stimulation (though I do believe that yes, they BELONG in the wild), but I'll not step foot in a place like Sea World.
 
2014-02-28 10:43:25 AM  
ORCA investigator?
 
2014-02-28 10:44:46 AM  

kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.


That's the smartest thing I've ever heard anyone say about anything
 
2014-02-28 10:44:56 AM  

kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.


Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.
 
2014-02-28 10:44:58 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: SeaWorld Entertainment Inc. on Thursday filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Labor, asking the agency to examine the conduct of an investigator who led the probe into SeaWorld's safety practices following the death of an Orlando trainer killed by a park killer whale in 2010.

I dunno. You see "Killer Whale" you should be prepared for a killing. Huggy Whale? No. Unless they hug you to death. I guess that I would go to Sea World to watch a Hug You to Death Whale.


There's some property in Greenland you may be interested in.
 
2014-02-28 10:45:46 AM  
If a bunch of Orcas out in the ocean came across a bunch of other Orcas who were white where the other Orcas were black, would they all fight to the death or did they learn something from that Star Trek TOS episode.
 
2014-02-28 10:47:35 AM  
Dumb of the OSHA person to be seen anywhere near the filmmakers for exactly this reason.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-28 10:48:41 AM  
Prey4reign:

It's either a case of Stockholm Syndrome or the producers were milking that cow/whale for all it was worth.

Well, whales are mammals so I guess you could milk one.

You could even make whale cheese!
 
2014-02-28 10:52:40 AM  
vicioushobbit: "...It's one thing to profit off the view and exploration of a creature, and quite another to enslave it to do tricks for its food.  I'll go to zoos, and i'll criticize the hell out of them if I feel the animals aren't being provided enough space or stimulation (though I do believe that yes, they BELONG in the wild), but I'll not step foot in a place like Sea World."


I honestly don't care about tricks.

 And I don't disagree with your opinion.   But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO.   If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

I don't care if you dress it up like at Steve Erwins Zoo in Australia or some sleazy back woods zoo in the Ukraine.     Ain't gonna go there.    They ain't happy.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-28 10:53:34 AM  

jjorsett: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If they can prove the OSHA investigator provided confidential company documents to a third party in violation of the law, they'd absolutely have a case.


Depends on how much of that was truly confidential and whether the company declared any of it to be confidential. I can't say for certain for the labor department, but I work for an environmental agency and everything that goes into the inspection and enforcement reports is public record. If the company wants something confidential they have to declare it so upfront. You also can't just do a blanket confidential declaration on everything relevant to the case. If the violation centers around workcase practices, then some documentation of those practices has to go in the record.

My guess is this is a PR stunt to create doubt about the violations and the film. Nope, no problem here. Just an overzealous inspector and film crew out to make a name. Hey, get away from that curtain.
 
2014-02-28 10:56:30 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Animal-based theme parks and circuses, not so much.


Actually I've never heard a bad thing about Busch Gardens, ironically owned by Sea World. They rescue animals, take good care of them from what I've seen and they don't have animal shows anymore (there might still be a bird show). Of course they're in captivity but they have pretty decent habitats and no one is poaching them. They also have a fully staffed vet hospital.

I don't know much about Disney's Animal Kingdom. I doubt they're as rescue oriented but they have an open Serengeti type area where the animals can go wherever they want (within the habit of course, they can't ride Space Mountain but it's a large open area). On the "safaris", you ride around and whatever animals happen to be there you get to see, they don't cattle prod them so the guests can look at them or anything.

So not all theme parks are bad. Sea World just happen to be assholes.

Oh and circuses are crimes against (whatever the animal equivalent of "humanity" is). My grandfather took me to one when I was like four and I demanded to get TF out. My mom was pissed he took me.
 
2014-02-28 10:58:06 AM  

vicioushobbit: Personally, I just have a hard time believing anybody can have enough space to keep a whale happy.


Fun fact: Orcas are dolphins, not whales.
/The more you know
//Not being snarky
 
2014-02-28 10:59:05 AM  

vicioushobbit: netcentric: Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.


 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.

Personally, I just have a hard time believing anybody can have enough space to keep a whale happy.  I mean, look how much space they are required to give elephants, zebras, giraffes...freaking acres.  They also tend to be allowed to stay with their young, grow old with them, etc, because space is generally available.

With whales, not so much.  A whale is given significantly less space, proportionally to their body, to exercise and move around.  They are very, very rarely allowed to keep their young for long, and "pods" are really little more than mismatched bits of broken families.  The whales are also being forced to do tricks, unlike say, the sea anemones, jellyfish, and other creatures being kept.

It's one thing to profit off the view and exploration of a creature, and quite another to enslave it to do tricks for its food.  I'll go to zoos, and i'll criticize the hell out of them if I feel the animals aren't being provided enough space or stimulation (though I do believe that yes, they BELONG in the wild), but I'll not step foot in a place like Sea World.


Two things:
1 - Zoos also function as 're-population' facilities for dying or endangered species.  They are protected and mated to increase the populations so hopefully they can be released back in to the wild.  The US has a pretty good system in place for this where zoos share males to mate with the females in different zoos across the country.  There are habitats in Africa that do this as well with less success but still offer protection for the increaed hunting, especially of animals that offer something other than meat, like ivory.

2 - I was working in the IT department for Seaworld when the trainer was killed (in Saint Louis because they were still owned by AB at the time).  Within an hour of her death we received an email telling us not to comment or talk to the press at all.  It was weird because it had to be a form letter due to it being so detailed as to where to refer questions and what we could and could not say.  So, with my access to database records and under the excuse of working on an issue for another park, I started looking and the animal care application had a full list of incidents with all the animals and the Orcas were, by far, the longest list.  After seeing Blackfish and what I knew from working there, I was amazed that Seaworld tried to deny that there were any issues with the whales.  It makes me wonder if OSHA has subpoena powers to get those records.
 
2014-02-28 10:59:24 AM  
GOOD.
 
2014-02-28 11:07:19 AM  

vpb: Prey4reign:

It's either a case of Stockholm Syndrome or the producers were milking that cow/whale for all it was worth.

Well, whales are mammals so I guess you could milk one.

You could even make whale cheese!


You can milk anything with nipples.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-28 11:09:13 AM  

ChaosStar: vicioushobbit: Personally, I just have a hard time believing anybody can have enough space to keep a whale happy.

Fun fact: Orcas are dolphins, not whales.


Well, they taste the same on rye bread with mayonnaise.
 
2014-02-28 11:09:35 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: jjorsett: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If they can prove the OSHA investigator provided confidential company documents to a third party in violation of the law, they'd absolutely have a case.

Depends on how much of that was truly confidential and whether the company declared any of it to be confidential. I can't say for certain for the labor department, but I work for an environmental agency and everything that goes into the inspection and enforcement reports is public record. If the company wants something confidential they have to declare it so upfront. You also can't just do a blanket confidential declaration on everything relevant to the case. If the violation centers around workcase practices, then some documentation of those practices has to go in the record.

My guess is this is a PR stunt to create doubt about the violations and the film. Nope, no problem here. Just an overzealous inspector and film crew out to make a name. Hey, get away from that curtain.


Maybe, the burden of proof that Seaworld would face as a public figure in any defamation suit would be huge, they may be trying to shift focus to proving that the inspector had a ulterior motive for the scathing report, that she was colluding with the producers to pump a agenda. I don't know enough to have an opinion but it wasn't intelligent of the inspector to appear with the film crew in any capacity as it opens the door to such charges.
 
2014-02-28 11:16:12 AM  
I think this is just a red herring.  The OSHA inspector is there to look into the DEATH of a worker - it's an automatic, and no doubt at least some of that report is public record.  I don't know about the behavior or motivations (if any) of the investigator, but it really looks like this suit is a straw-grasping attempt to mitigate their losses from a possible employers liability suit.  There's a cost to having your employees work in unnecessarily unsafe conditions for the benefit of "show biz".
 
2014-02-28 11:19:23 AM  
Billy Liar: "... There's a cost to having your employees work in unnecessarily unsafe conditions for the benefit of "show biz".


 i.imgur.com

      Tell me about it....    I used to be free
 
2014-02-28 11:24:24 AM  

kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.


Finally, we get a scientician to explain things.

Thank you!
 
2014-02-28 11:24:31 AM  
If only orcas had hands.  Those trainers would all be dead!

daveintexas.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-28 11:26:16 AM  

Mugato: I don't know much about Disney's Animal Kingdom. I doubt they're as rescue oriented but they have an open Serengeti type area where the animals can go wherever they want (within the habit of course, they can't ride Space Mountain but it's a large open area). On the "safaris", you ride around and whatever animals happen to be there you get to see, they don't cattle prod them so the guests can look at them or anything.


They herd them into small pens at night.  Also, they rotate the animals around the animal kingdom lodge, so when you stay there there are animals in a smaller area for the people in the hotel to view.  (It's still a large area, and they aren't there every day, just some days.)

They do encourage animals to be where they can be seen.  The lion, for instance, has a perch that is highly visible from the safari vehicles.  Under the dirt, they pump heated or chilled water to keep that one spot hot or cold so the lion is more likely to stay in sight instead of looking for someplace more comfortable..  He doesn't have to sit there, but the hidden incentive is there.
 
2014-02-28 11:36:16 AM  

Hickory-smoked: netcentric: Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.


 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.

Zoos usually operate as educational centers, and have a high standard of animal care. Animal-based theme parks and circuses, not so much.


Zoos also kill their animals to prevent hot incest like in that movie Taboo with Kay Parker.  Then, they chop up the animals and feed them to lions.  I read that somewhere
 
2014-02-28 11:36:59 AM  

Billy Liar: I think this is just a red herring.  The OSHA inspector is there to look into the DEATH of a worker - it's an automatic, and no doubt at least some of that report is public record.  I don't know about the behavior or motivations (if any) of the investigator, but it really looks like this suit is a straw-grasping attempt to mitigate their losses from a possible employers liability suit.  There's a cost to having your employees work in unnecessarily unsafe conditions for the benefit of "show biz".


OSHA records are covered under the Freedom Of Information Act, so all it takes is a written request in order to see them.
 
2014-02-28 11:39:37 AM  

netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.


Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.
 
2014-02-28 11:44:51 AM  

netcentric: Prey4reign: They belong in a museum.  The owners of Sea World, that is, not the killer whales; the killer whales belong in the wild.  Free Willie and the rest of them.


 Not disagreeing with you... but why did you not at least throw a bone to the 1,000 other animals being held in SeaWorld as captives ?

There is definitely something disgusting about ZOO's profiting off of caged animals.  Sea World is not much better.    But I don't care any more for that stupid whale than I would about the other animals and fish.


A fair point to think of all the other animals, but fark everyone who thinks zoos are just prisons for animals.  Modern zoos do a great deal to care for their animals and give them a good environment and aren't run for profit.


A while back I started going out with this girl and I suggested we go to the zoo.  Her reaction was bad.  She said she didn't want to see animals in cages.  I knew our relationship was doomed right then and there.


That's just one brick more than thinking that dogs and cats shouldn't be called pets because they're "companions".  Well, of course they're companions.  "Pet" means animal companion.  And I own pets.  They're chattel.

Dolphins don't need human rights
So Shamu wants a bigger tank to swim in. I'd like a bigger house. Your mom wishes she had bigger tits. You wish you had a bigger dick. Sometimes life just isn't fair.
 
2014-02-28 11:47:05 AM  
It saddens me to see so many people calling 'Blackfish' a documentary.  It was a propaganda piece done by Anti-Captivity activists.  Yes, activists, that's the label they've given themselves.  All of the trainers featured for any length of time are members of the anti-captivity movement, two of them continue working together.  None of them had long term exposure to the training environments for Tillikum, and the two trainers that did, denounced the film immediately upon release.  The family of the latest worker killed sided against the film.  The primary producer is a known anti-captivity activist.

I watched Blackfish, and then I watched Eco PirateEco Pirate is a documentary by a recognized documentary filmmaker that examines the life and impact of Paul Watson.  It actually provides facts, promotes discussion, and shows multiple viewpoints of Paul from people who know him and have been involved in his life.  It documents the information so you, the viewer, can be educated.  It doesn't carefully edit footage to invoke false impressions, or rely on emotional appeals.  It doesn't attempt to sway the audience in a specific direction, and it actually provides more information about the 'early years' of whale capture and captivity than Blackfish does...
 
2014-02-28 11:51:59 AM  

labman: They herd them into small pens at night.  Also, they rotate the animals around the animal kingdom lodge, so when you stay there there are animals in a smaller area for the people in the hotel to view.  (It's still a large area, and they aren't there every day, just some days.)

They do encourage animals to be where they can be seen.  The lion, for instance, has a perch that is highly visible from the safari vehicles.  Under the dirt, they pump heated or chilled water to keep that one spot hot or cold so the lion is more likely to stay in sight instead of looking for someplace more comfortable..  He doesn't have to sit there, but the hidden incentive is there.


Okay, well like I said I don't know that much about AK and I wouldn't doubt it if Disney has less than ethical practices. But I know a little more about Busch Gardens and I never heard anything like that about them.
 
2014-02-28 11:57:16 AM  

CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.



If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

i.imgur.com


 
2014-02-28 12:00:50 PM  

Mugato: While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?


As long as I can sue Universal to release it on Blu-Ray 3D, since NONE of the companies seem to wanna release the true 3D films in 3D.
 
2014-02-28 12:01:17 PM  

netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]


Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.
 
2014-02-28 12:04:09 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.


Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical
 
2014-02-28 12:10:35 PM  

netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical


I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.
 
2014-02-28 12:11:11 PM  

Click Click D'oh: macross87: Maybe he likes Fish Sticks...

So... He's a gay fish?


That depends if he likes fish sticks in his mouth. Just liking fish sticks doesn't necessarily make him a gay fish.
 
2014-02-28 12:14:46 PM  

vicioushobbit: kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.

Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.


wut?

notsureifserious.jpq

that applies to both you farkers.

/eyeroll
 
2014-02-28 12:15:03 PM  
I love drinking beer while watching captured animals perform for my amusement.

AM I NOT ENTERTAINED? AND DRUNK?
 
2014-02-28 12:16:03 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical

I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.


....and yet you replied.
 
2014-02-28 12:40:47 PM  
Blackfish was a good movie.  It's streaming on Netflix now.
 
2014-02-28 12:45:41 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: It saddens me to see so many people calling 'Blackfish' a documentary.  It was a propaganda piece done by Anti-Captivity activists.  Yes, activists, that's the label they've given themselves.  All of the trainers featured for any length of time are members of the anti-captivity movement, two of them continue working together.  None of them had long term exposure to the training environments for Tillikum, and the two trainers that did, denounced the film immediately upon release.  The family of the latest worker killed sided against the film.  The primary producer is a known anti-captivity activist.

I watched Blackfish, and then I watched Eco Pirate.  Eco Pirate is a documentary by a recognized documentary filmmaker that examines the life and impact of Paul Watson.  It actually provides facts, promotes discussion, and shows multiple viewpoints of Paul from people who know him and have been involved in his life.  It documents the information so you, the viewer, can be educated.  It doesn't carefully edit footage to invoke false impressions, or rely on emotional appeals.  It doesn't attempt to sway the audience in a specific direction, and it actually provides more information about the 'early years' of whale capture and captivity than Blackfish does...


Dude, Tillicum is not going to let you fark him in the blow hole
 
2014-02-28 01:03:21 PM  

netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical

I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.

....and yet you replied.


And yet you're trollin'
 
2014-02-28 01:08:07 PM  
Im getting a vibe that some people would rather whole species go extinct rather than have a zoo/wild animal park/whatever keep an animal in captivity.

/yes I realize theres a world of difference between Seaworld and your average Zoo
 
2014-02-28 01:17:45 PM  
Watched Blackfish last week.  I realize it's a haigography, yet I find it impossible to dismiss the movies message entirely.  I guess the question really becomes this:  For whose benefit are these animals, be them Killer Whales in tanks or lions in the most progressive zoos, kept in their artifical environments?

When you consider the range that a KW has in the wild, having a tank, no matter how generously sized, is going to be like living in a hot-tub.  That all of them don't go nuts is a surprise, I'd say.

In the case of zoos, some are better, some are worse - I will say that the most popular event at the SF zoo was lion feeding time, done in an old fashioned 'cage' actually their sleeping pen building.  so popular that when they stopped it, attendance took a measurable dive.

There is, I suppose an arguement to be made for captive breeding programs, but somehow, no matter how nice the habitat, they are still animals in cages and I don't really like seeing that so much any more.
 
2014-02-28 01:22:21 PM  

netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: DeathByGeekSquad: netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]

Let's go find an animal, in the wild, place it on a porch.  Hell, we could use a Raccoon.  On the other side of that glass patio door, let's put some delicious looking food.

You know who will be attempting to get into that enclosed, boxed dwelling?  That Raccoon, despite living free and having the world at it's fingertips, it'll be reaching through the proverbial fence to snatch that tasty morsel before kicking over all of your farking trash cans and playing with the refuse.

Do you you feel better now?


/rhetorical

I felt just fine viewing the image you're throwing around because emotional appeals don't work with me.  The perks of being an INTP, I'm not an irrational sopping mess when someone tries to sway me with an image.

....and yet you replied.


I reply to provide a safe line of reasoning for lurkers and other readers, just as this response is a notification of intent.

As for the follow-up posts concerning 'and yet you're trolling', Netcentric isn't a troll, they're incapable of properly constructing a reasonable foundation that stands up against any measure of scrutiny, thereby signalling a lack of capability with regards to trolling.  Typical 4chan/Reddit generation behavior.  They're not trolls, but they love to think of themselves as one.
 
2014-02-28 01:48:29 PM  
Blackfish was good, but definitely very emotional. There is a good Frontline documentary released in the 90s or early 2000s (it's on youtube) covering the same issues but more factual. I definitely agree that there is an ethical issue with keeping animals (like orcas, elephants, great apes) with near-human intelligence and complex social structures in captivity like that. The OSHA investigation worries me though.  There have been 4 or 5 deaths and a few score injuries in ~30 years? This to OSHA means that working with the Orcas is fundamentally unsafe and can't continue.

I work with horses. You probably see 4 or 5 jockey deaths worldwide every year, as well as several deaths in 3 day eventing and showjumping. Not to mention the things that go on "behind the scenes," I knew of a woman who was leading a horse and got struck right in the chest and died of a heart attack. I myself have had 6 concussions due to riding or handling, a hip injury, and carpal tunnel in both wrists partially due to landing on my hands. I don't know of any professional riders or trainers that haven't broken at least one bone in their career. Yes horses are fundamentally dangerous but people that have made their careers in this business know that and do it anyway. I fear an OSHA ruling against Seaworld would really set a bad precedent.
 
2014-02-28 01:52:38 PM  
Expected Sea Parks pic, did not deliver.

27.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-28 03:37:25 PM  

People_are_Idiots: Mugato: While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?

As long as I can sue Universal to release it on Blu-Ray 3D, since NONE of the companies seem to wanna release the true 3D films in 3D.


I saw it in the theater when I was 5 and you're not missing anything.
 
2014-02-28 03:39:34 PM  

kbronsito: That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.


They are part black, and part "white-hispanic". And the shouldn't have been wearing a hoodie.
 
2014-02-28 05:07:16 PM  

netcentric: CraicBaby: netcentric: And I don't disagree with your opinion. But I would never again pay to go to a ZOO. If they charge you money and profit off of caging wild animals....I'm not into it.

Most zoo animals were born in captivity, so it's not like they're taking animals from the wild and sticking them in cages.


If that helps you sleep at night... more power to ya'

I don't really find a lot of solace in knowing that an animal born in a zoo is going to spend the next 13 years trapped in a cage.

[i.imgur.com image 300x200]


40% of Americans never leave the place they are born.  Animals of all kinds don't like moving.  They only move when they run out of resources in the place they are living.  As long as an animal is provided for, treated well, has enough space and is cared for by competent people, then I have no problem with Zoos or Sanctuaries.  Most of these places run education programs so that they can help the wild animal populations grow, as well.  Zoos in the US aren't the houses of horror they used to be.
 
2014-02-28 07:15:54 PM  

bborchar: 40% of Americans never leave the place they are born. Animals of all kinds don't like moving. They only move when they run out of resources in the place they are living. As long as an animal is provided for, treated well, has enough space and is cared for by competent people, then I have no problem with Zoos or Sanctuaries. Most of these places run education programs so that they can help the wild animal populations grow, as well. Zoos in the US aren't the houses of horror they used to be.


This.  As to who profits or benefits from zoos, zoos around the world have two important functions these days.  First, they help educate the public about the natural history and vulnerability of wildlife from around the world to human impacts.  In doing so, they allow many people to see the semi-natural behaviors of many animal species that they would not otherwise be able to understand.  The motivation for this is summed up nicely by the Senegalese conservationist, Baba Dioum:

"In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught."

By presenting these animals to folks who would otherwise not be familiar with them (and TV specials aren't enough), zoos help those people want to care about the well being of those animals.  That contributes directly to their conservation and preservation in the wild.

Second, as has already been stated, zoos form a genetic repository, where endangered species can be bred in captivity for the goal of repopulation.  Right now, this isn't done so much with the big charismatic species like mammals because simply releasing a few zoo captives won't do any good for the population, at least not until poachers and deforestation are brought under control.  It is done to great effect with small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians.  The St. Louis Zoo for example recently has begun breeding Ozark Hellbenders in captivity for the first time, which may be essential for their continued survival because they are almost totally extinct in the wild.  Taronga Zoo in Sydney, Australia has a number of similar projects for several Australian frog species that have almost totally disappeared from the wild due to humans spreading chytrid fungus.  Many other zoos are working on similar efforts to preserve captive populations of frogs from the Amazon and Central American cloud forests that have gone completely extinct in the wild.

Aquaria are also getting into the act.  The Chattanooga aquarium in Tennessee has a massive collection of turtle species from around the world, some of which are down to less than 100 individuals in the wild and are likely to go extinct in the next decade.  Captive breeding may be the only way to preserve these species.

These are the goals that are paid for by the profits made by zoos.  They aren't just animals in cages.  It's also worth pointing out that reproduction is often the first behavior that animals won't do if they are stressed in captivity.  Thus, for a zoo/aquarium to promote the captive breeding of endangered species, they must go to very great lengths indeed to ensure that the species they are working with are healthy and happy enough to be willing to make babies.
 
2014-02-28 09:38:28 PM  

shazbotuh: vicioushobbit kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.

Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.

wut?

notsureifserious.jpq

that applies to both you farkers.

/eyeroll


I was trying a new method, where I respond to a troll in a troll-like language.  My attempt to communicate.

The bit I bolded is true, though.  Best as I can remember, it's been a while since I saw Blackfish.
 
2014-02-28 09:46:52 PM  

vicioushobbit: shazbotuh: vicioushobbit kbronsito: Mugato: It says that they're filing a complaint with the dept of labor. My GED in Law got lost in the mail but I don't think that's the same as suing them outright. If they did they wouldn't have a fin to stand on.

If anything in the documentary was a lie they'd be suing for slander (or is it libel) so if anything, this move by Sea World indicates that it's all true,

That Blackfish documentary has got to be full of lies... for one thing, whales are mammals not fish. Orcas are also part white and part black... so calling them blackfish would also not be accurate. I guess orcas are black and white when they are good but as soon as they kill a trainer, they are just black. So the documentary is also racist.

Totes true.

In fact, in the documentary, they only even use the word once, if I recall, to explain that a Native tribe calls the orca Blackfish as more of a dark warning, that this is a fish you don't want to fark with.  Not all the natives were hip to the mammal thing, so you know it's just their attempt to make them look bad by using the word as a title.

wut?

notsureifserious.jpq

that applies to both you farkers.

/eyeroll

I was trying a new method, where I respond to a troll in a troll-like language.  My attempt to communicate.

The bit I bolded is true, though.  Best as I can remember, it's been a while since I saw Blackfish.


I think I need to recalibrate my troll/sarcasm readers. They're on the fritz.

Point taken though- you're right about the origin of the blackfish title.
 
2014-02-28 11:40:01 PM  
All it took me to take Blackfish's word over Sea World's was seeing a collapsed fin (shiat you never see in the wild) and how Sea World gets it's orca (I always thought it sought orphaned orca, injured/abandoned orca, or naturally bred them rather than basically destroy orca families or rape them).

My parents took me to see Shamu every year in Aurora OH as a kid growing up and loving animals dearly, Sea World was a place I had a huge love for and donated to as I got older. Sadly it seems I've been lied to the whole time and that angers me.
 
2014-02-28 11:45:25 PM  

JDJoeE: Im getting a vibe that some people would rather whole species go extinct rather than have a zoo/wild animal park/whatever keep an animal in captivity.

/yes I realize theres a world of difference between Seaworld and your average Zoo


You make it seem like there's only these two options, when in reality, there's more than enough orca in the world that these aren't even really options at all, which just makes me wonder if you're an idiot or something.

When you can breed and clone, there's really no reason to ever relegate an entire species to captivity. Not that orca are even close to that sort of endangerment yet.
 
2014-02-28 11:52:41 PM  

Mugato: People_are_Idiots: Mugato: While we're suing, can I sue Sea World for Jaws 3D?

As long as I can sue Universal to release it on Blu-Ray 3D, since NONE of the companies seem to wanna release the true 3D films in 3D.

I saw it in the theater when I was 5 and you're not missing anything.


I saw it when I was 8, and I loved the 3D. Movie sucks, but the 3D was great.
 
2014-03-01 01:26:09 AM  
Wow, I just tried to watch the Blackfish movie on Netflix but couldn't get past the 13:00-minute mark, where the show the footage of the capture of the young orcas, even after the parents tried to outsmart the humans.

I'm such a sap.
 
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