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(BBC)   Crimea river   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 266
    More: News, Crimean, Russians, Ukraine, combat readiness, territorial integrity, Russian Navy, President Vladimir Putin, Secretary of State John Kerry  
•       •       •

15594 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 2:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



266 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-28 02:49:23 AM  
Time to storm some Russian consulates it seems
 
2014-02-28 02:50:36 AM  
Someone said the other day they tried to use this headline. I hope it was this submitter and somebody else didn't just steal their joke.
 
2014-02-28 02:51:51 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 02:52:21 AM  
Ukraine is weak!
 
2014-02-28 02:52:47 AM  
Welp, that didn't take long.

I expect Putin to get all putiny about this whole ordeal by Sunday.
 
2014-02-28 02:52:48 AM  
Cannon to right of them
Cannon to left of them
Cannon in front of them
Vollyed and thunder'd
 
2014-02-28 02:55:33 AM  
 
2014-02-28 02:55:53 AM  
F*ck you Putin you shirtless bear-fighting bastard. F*ck you.
 
2014-02-28 02:57:14 AM  
If you can't do the timea, don't do the crimea.
 
2014-02-28 02:58:19 AM  
So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?
 
2014-02-28 02:58:42 AM  
A man called Vladimir told Reuters he was a volunteer helping the group, though he said he did not know where they came from.

He was shirtless and riding a tiger.

/Wait, I think I've confused Putin and He-Man again.
 
2014-02-28 02:58:46 AM  
Obligatory
 
2014-02-28 02:59:27 AM  
In Soviet Union, airport blockades Russians.
 
2014-02-28 02:59:53 AM  
He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.
 
2014-02-28 03:00:15 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-28 03:02:23 AM  
Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?
 
2014-02-28 03:04:46 AM  

Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?


No you're not understanding it correctly.  The airport is operating normally.
 
2014-02-28 03:04:48 AM  
Don't worry folks, it's OK, Putin would never order the Russian military to invade a sovereign nation that used to be a Soviet satellite, in order to lay claim by Russia to a small border region that is ethnically different from the Western-leaning majority of the nation.

Oh I'm sorry, Georgia, did you have something to add?
 
2014-02-28 03:06:35 AM  

Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?


TFA was poorly worded. Russian didn't send in its own military, they provided weapons to a small group of local idiots and told them to storm the airport and parliament while flying the Russian flag.
 
2014-02-28 03:06:36 AM  
Forced headline is forced.

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?


Are you sure that the magazine just isn't in backwards?

/here all week, the veal is delicious
 
2014-02-28 03:07:04 AM  

whither_apophis: Cannon to right of them
Cannon to left of them
Cannon in front of them
Vollyed and thunder'd


i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-28 03:07:29 AM  
Did anyone rtfa? Headline doesn't match the content. Waiting for more info personally
 
2014-02-28 03:08:21 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?


Looks that way to me.
 
2014-02-28 03:08:40 AM  
This happens here in Indiana. Every now and then, the town is patrolled by hundreds of stony faced armed men in riot gear and gas masks with no insignias and brandishing automatic rifles who will not speak of their identities or intentions. They just stand around and look intimidating for a few days, and then they disappear as mysteriously and quickly as they arrived.
Is this not normal?
 
2014-02-28 03:08:49 AM  
sounds like things could get real sketchy real fast.
 
2014-02-28 03:08:51 AM  
I thought Eastern Europe was a haven of peace, political stability, and human rights.
 
2014-02-28 03:08:59 AM  
 
2014-02-28 03:11:25 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?


Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784
 
2014-02-28 03:11:27 AM  
 
2014-02-28 03:13:20 AM  
Wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg
 
2014-02-28 03:14:55 AM  
And there is nothing the west can do.
 
2014-02-28 03:15:16 AM  
FTA Meanwhile, in a further challenge to Kiev, Mr Yanukovich is preparing to give a press conference on Friday, after resurfacing in Russia on Thursday, asserting that he is still Ukraine's lawful president.


Sigh.
 
2014-02-28 03:15:47 AM  
From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296
 
2014-02-28 03:16:19 AM  

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.


World War III is a thing
 
2014-02-28 03:18:59 AM  
I think the Ukraine used to have a whole bunch of nukes back in the Cold War days.
I'm sure they were all accounted for.
 
2014-02-28 03:20:52 AM  

Boojum2k: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Looks that way to me.


The rifle intimidates. Keeping the magazines in their pounches minimizes accidents. 'scuze me, "accidents".
 
2014-02-28 03:23:46 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

World War III is a thing


Short of that.
 
2014-02-28 03:24:46 AM  

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.


Now that's not true. The U.N. can make plans to schedule a phone call to discuss calling a meeting to vote on a resolution to form a committee to draft a strongly worded letter.

Which Russia will veto.
 
2014-02-28 03:25:03 AM  

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.


Maybe we'll just sit this one out for a change.
 
2014-02-28 03:26:40 AM  

wildcardjack: Boojum2k: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Looks that way to me.

The rifle intimidates. Keeping the magazines in their pounches minimizes accidents. 'scuze me, "accidents".


Which is fairly smart. Putin is a thug, but if he's behind this he's being a smart thug.

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then.
 
2014-02-28 03:26:46 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

No you're not understanding it correctly.  The airport is operating normally.


HotWingAgenda: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

TFA was poorly worded. Russian didn't send in its own military, they provided weapons to a small group of local idiots and told them to storm the airport and parliament while flying the Russian flag.

www.tntmagazine.com

Dis' stuff'es confusin.

 
2014-02-28 03:27:24 AM  
Oh FARK, you sonofabiatch.
 
2014-02-28 03:27:37 AM  

Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then


Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 03:30:32 AM  

Errk: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

Maybe we'll just sit this one out for a change.


Gawd I hope so.
 
2014-02-28 03:32:02 AM  

lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296


If that's actually true and not just an excuse, that is very interesting.
 
2014-02-28 03:34:15 AM  

lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784


I was not aware that rifle existed.  So, they replaced the AK47 with a smaller more accurate caliber in the AK74, only to put out a new rifle based on the 74 that's in the OLD caliber of the 47 but not actually a 47.

The More You Knooooowww!!!
 
2014-02-28 03:39:06 AM  

Errk: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

Maybe we'll just sit this one out for a change.


Oh, we will. Please don't think I'm welcome to another war, cold or hot.
 
2014-02-28 03:41:24 AM  
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071877/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"there is a uniform, there must have been a man in it..."

cheers to anthony perkins
lauren bacall
wendy hiller
albert finney
sean connery
michael york
john gielgud
ingrid bergman
jaqueline bissette
vanessa redgrave
martin balsam
richard widmark
 
2014-02-28 03:43:19 AM  

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 03:45:43 AM  
Thought west was started as west of the berlin wall... may be wrong
 
2014-02-28 03:47:31 AM  

cynicalminion: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071877/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"there is a uniform, there must have been a man in it..."

cheers to anthony perkins
lauren bacall
wendy hiller
albert finney
sean connery
michael york
john gielgud
ingrid bergman
jaqueline bissette
vanessa redgrave
martin balsam
richard widmark


Holy shiat. Thanks to you, I just learned that Lauren Bacall is not only still alive, but still acting.
 
2014-02-28 03:50:57 AM  
The west did nothing in the partition of Georgia.  What makes anyone think that the west will do anything if a few regions are plucked from Ukraine? Who is going to oppose Russia?  Germany, France, Poland, UK? They may have some soldiers but they are mostly reliant on heavy support from the US in many key areas such as logistics, intelligence, and supplying the advanced weapons in useful quantities.  So even if there was the will by several of these countries to act, they lack the means to effectively do so unless the US goes along with it and there is almost zero US interest in applying anything beyond moral support to Ukraine.  I suspect the same with the rest of the NATO countries that, while they may talk a good game, when the rubber meets the road, no one wants to risk a shooting war over the Ukraine with Russia.
 
2014-02-28 03:51:13 AM  

Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.


That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.
 
2014-02-28 03:51:34 AM  
Flights canceled
Guess operating normally was a bit off.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26380336
 
2014-02-28 03:55:56 AM  
well shiat
 
2014-02-28 03:56:48 AM  

jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.


Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.
 
2014-02-28 03:57:02 AM  

jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.


Tell it to the Netherlands, New England and West Virginia.
 
2014-02-28 03:58:47 AM  

RINO: lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296

If that's actually true and not just an excuse, that is very interesting.


You know what Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."  Especially when it involves Russia.

White_Scarf_Syndrome: lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784

I was not aware that rifle existed.  So, they replaced the AK47 with a smaller more accurate caliber in the AK74, only to put out a new rifle based on the 74 that's in the OLD caliber of the 47 but not actually a 47.

The More You Knooooowww!!!


You know us Texans, if we can't recognize a gun, we'll find one who can.

cynicalminion: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

[img.fark.net image 565x348]


Not to detract from the topic at hand, but, I'll throw another monkey wrench in the works:

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 03:58:57 AM  
The Ohio state University
 
2014-02-28 04:03:35 AM  

HotWingAgenda: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Tell it to the Netherlands, New England and West Virginia.


The Netherlands has made the "the" an official part of its name (also strange that they have one the few cities in the world with an article in its name as well). That is different in that as far as I know, the officially supported English translation of the country name is simply Ukraine without an article. As Slavic languages generally lack articles, the preposition thing is how they make the difference, and it serves the same purpose with this..
 
2014-02-28 04:04:11 AM  
Oh, goddamnit.
 
2014-02-28 04:04:20 AM  

cynicalminion: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

[img.fark.net image 565x348]


Small error: the bracket for "the West" needs to encompass both Western Europe and all of the Americas. The concept of East and West is based on projecting the Mediterranean as the center of the world.
 
2014-02-28 04:04:59 AM  
Tom Clancy is jerking off in his grave.
 
2014-02-28 04:09:04 AM  

HotWingAgenda: cynicalminion: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071877/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"there is a uniform, there must have been a man in it..."

cheers to anthony perkins
lauren bacall
wendy hiller
albert finney
sean connery
michael york
john gielgud
ingrid bergman
jaqueline bissette
vanessa redgrave
martin balsam
richard widmark

Holy shiat. Thanks to you, I just learned that Lauren Bacall is not only still alive, but still acting.


do you know how to whistle?
 
2014-02-28 04:10:26 AM  
Russian missle boat now reportedly blocking entrance to balaclava bay
 
2014-02-28 04:11:35 AM  

Rev.Killjoy: Russian missle boat now reportedly blocking entrance to balaclava bay


Link?
 
2014-02-28 04:13:00 AM  

Kittypie070: well shiat


"please madame, if you must go woof-woof, go woof-woof not to windward but to leeward, help her pierre..."
 
2014-02-28 04:13:22 AM  
Im going off bbc feed

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26380336

Moving fast
 
2014-02-28 04:14:44 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

World War III is a thing


The Crimean War was a thing too. We're setting the stage for WWI all over again.
 
2014-02-28 04:17:19 AM  

Rev.Killjoy: Russian missle boat now reportedly blocking entrance to balaclava bay


www.bestmastersprograms.org

 
2014-02-28 04:17:58 AM  
From the article:
"Russia, along with the US, UK and France, pledged to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in a memorandum signed in 1994."
Wonder if anyone is waving that piece of paper at the populace of the Ukraine saying "We will have peace in our time."
 
2014-02-28 04:18:26 AM  

lumiere: RINO: lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296

If that's actually true and not just an excuse, that is very interesting.

You know what Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."  Especially when it involves Russia.

White_Scarf_Syndrome: lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784

I was not aware that rifle existed.  So, they replaced the AK47 with a smaller more accurate caliber in the AK74, only to put out a new rifle based on the 74 that's in the OLD caliber of the 47 but not actually a 47.

The More You Knooooowww!!!

You know us Texans, if we can't recognize a gun, we'll find one who can.

cynicalminion: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

[img.fark.net image 565x348]

Not to detract from the topic at hand, but, I'll throw another monkey wrench in the works:


Why is that Saudi drinking whisky?
 
2014-02-28 04:21:20 AM  

HotWingAgenda: cynicalminion: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

[img.fark.net image 565x348]

Small error: the bracket for "the West" needs to encompass both Western Europe and all of the Americas. The concept of East and West is based on projecting the Mediterranean as the center of the world.


um, no.  from the midwest, "east" is over there where sun comes up and history comes from. sometimes with biblical hate.  "west" is where cool things happen like sunsets and oommmnomnomnomincensestuff

ohh. definitely down with the patron saint of hibachi scallops.  so your small error can get bracketed.
 
2014-02-28 04:21:28 AM  
Cliffnotes bro style

Ukraine: dood Russia.. why you at our party bro?

Russia: uhh those guys aren't with us. Probably followed someone else in.

Ukraine: d00d.. isnt that your boat?

Russia: bro swear. We totally didnt invite those doods.
 
2014-02-28 04:30:49 AM  

cynicalminion: Kittypie070: well shiat

"please madame, if you must go woof-woof, go woof-woof not to windward but to leeward, help her pierre..."


Well if it's that kinda party I may as well take a steaming dump in Pooty's bowl of taters.
 
2014-02-28 04:35:31 AM  
ransack.: [redacted]

Why is that Saudi drinking whisky?

Why do you assume he is Saudi?
 
2014-02-28 04:36:32 AM  


upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.org
upload.wikimedia.org

 
2014-02-28 04:38:44 AM  

Rev.Killjoy: Cliffnotes bro style

Ukraine: dood Russia.. why you at our party bro?

Russia: uhh those guys aren't with us. Probably followed someone else in.

Ukraine: d00d.. isnt that your boat?

Russia: bro swear. We totally didnt invite those doods.


Go on...
 
2014-02-28 04:41:30 AM  

lumiere: ransack.: [redacted]

Why is that Saudi drinking whisky?

Why do you assume he is Saudi?


I'm not particularly on the ball and I don't consider myself bigoted or prejudiced, and I admit a level of ignorance and a willingness to be educated, and I hope nobody attacks me for this, but it's because every time I see a rich Saudi on TV or the internet, they always wear bright white head to toe with a headband like the guy in the cartoon, and most importantly, no moustache. Saudi Arabians have Amish-like beards that frame their face but they seem to never have moustaches. If I had to list groups of people who wear beards and not moustaches, I would say married Amish men, Saudi Arabian oligarchy, and then I would have to think about it for a while for any further examples.
 
2014-02-28 04:53:32 AM  
Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.
 
2014-02-28 04:55:05 AM  

NobleHam: Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.


Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view.  Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.
 
2014-02-28 04:55:27 AM  

ransack.: lumiere: RINO: lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296

If that's actually true and not just an excuse, that is very interesting.

You know what Mark Twain said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."  Especially when it involves Russia.

White_Scarf_Syndrome: lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784

I was not aware that rifle existed.  So, they replaced the AK47 with a smaller more accurate caliber in the AK74, only to put out a new rifle based on the 74 that's in the OLD caliber of the 47 but not actually a 47.

The More You Knooooowww!!!

You know us Texans, if we can't recognize a gun, we'll find one who can.

cynicalminion: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

[img.fark.net image 565x348]

Not to detract from the topic at hand, but, I'll throw another monkey wrench in the works:

Why is that Saudi drinking whisky?


He's got Affluenza, he can't help it.
 
2014-02-28 04:59:10 AM  

Ishkur: He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.


Of course he did...However, the real funny thing is that it probably cost him Ukraine. Had the Olympics been somewhere else or not happening, he would have been able to send forces in to break up the protests and prop up the Ukraine President. Hell, had it been outside of Russia, he could have gone in strong and let the Olympics divert some of the attention.

 But with all the international attention, he didn't want "his" games to become about the Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 05:00:01 AM  

Fail in Human Form: Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view. Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.


Nothing supports that view either. Why not just take the Crimea if that's their goal? Or at least openly declare that Russian forces will secure Crimean ports until stability is reached? This isn't permanent and it's not meant to be, because Russia knows they can't take Crimea. They want things back to the way they were six months ago, not a new unstable conflict in the region. They'll use what leverage and threats they have to get back to that position of being a favored, dominant power in Ukraine, but they won't risk armed conflict or sanctions over a new province they could do without. This isn't Abkhazia, it's farking Crimea. They can't have it.
 
2014-02-28 05:02:26 AM  
FTA: "I'm with the People's Militia of Crimea. We're simple people, volunteers," he said.

At least they're not from the Judean People's Front .... those wankers...
 
2014-02-28 05:04:20 AM  

NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view. Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.

Nothing supports that view either. Why not just take the Crimea if that's their goal? Or at least openly declare that Russian forces will secure Crimean ports until stability is reached? This isn't permanent and it's not meant to be, because Russia knows they can't take Crimea. They want things back to the way they were six months ago, not a new unstable conflict in the region. They'll use what leverage and threats they have to get back to that position of being a favored, dominant power in Ukraine, but they won't risk armed conflict or sanctions over a new province they could do without. This isn't Abkhazia, it's farking Crimea. They can't have it.


They ARE taking it and doing so in a very calculated way.  Look into what they did in Afghanistan.  It's the same playbook.  By doing it this way they can essentially seize the area before they "officially" move in troops on a "humanitarian mission."
 
2014-02-28 05:06:01 AM  
Isn't it kind of a bad idea to piss off Tatars!?
 
2014-02-28 05:09:20 AM  

Kittypie070: Isn't it kind of a bad idea to piss off Tatars!?


I would guess that they're necessary from Russia's POV.  Seize the airports, the sea ports, the parliament, setup roving military patrols, and setup checkpoints on the roads leaving the region.  All of which have been done.  Then when they get attacked use it as a pretense to be "invited" in by the pro Russian groups to deal with the terrorists.  Look at what happened in Georgia.
 
2014-02-28 05:13:38 AM  

Public Savant: FTA: "I'm with the People's Militia of Crimea. We're simple people, volunteers," he said.

At least they're not from the Judean People's Front .... those wankers...


"Simple people, volunteers, the common clay of the new East...."
 
2014-02-28 05:16:35 AM  
NobleHam: ....

From the BBC to give more support for my assertion.

10:11:
Ukraine's interim President, Olexander Turchynov, has accused Russia of aggravating the crisis. He told parliament in Kiev: "Unfortunately... the armed forces of the Russian Federation are becoming directly involved in the escalation of this conflict and... are moving around the Autonomous Republic of Crimea with arms in areas which were not agreed with Ukraine."
 
2014-02-28 05:17:58 AM  

ransack.: Rev.Killjoy: Russian missle boat now reportedly blocking entrance to balaclava bay

[www.bestmastersprograms.org image 500x340]


img.fark.net

i just wanted to be the one with the plan for once...
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 05:19:40 AM  

Kittypie070: Isn't it kind of a bad idea to piss off Tatars!?


no i think pissing ON something is step one for "something" tatar recipes...
 
2014-02-28 05:22:20 AM  

cynicalminion: Kittypie070: Isn't it kind of a bad idea to piss off Tatars!?

no i think pissing ON something is step one for "something" tatar recipes...


although, i could be wrong, by that reasoning, "szechuan" is engrish for rinzy rohan... with a side of right lice...
 
2014-02-28 05:27:17 AM  
...urm...
 
2014-02-28 05:28:21 AM  

Kittypie070: cynicalminion: Kittypie070: well shiat

"please madame, if you must go woof-woof, go woof-woof not to windward but to leeward, help her pierre..."

Well if it's that kinda party I may as well take a steaming dump in Pooty's bowl of taters.


i was not aware i was keeping my hands ON miss debonham, but if you think the princess dragomirov's puppies don't need their NEW potatoes while she has her POACHED sole (her soul's already jerky, don't try it) then we'll all be stuck listening to the farking good ship lollipop again. CURSE YOU SHIRLEY TEMPLE HARLOT!
 
2014-02-28 05:28:46 AM  

Kittypie070: Isn't it kind of a bad idea to piss off Tatars!?


The tatars ARE pissed off

Euromaidan PR @EuromaidanPR  1m
#Kyiv reaction on #Crimea situation is too soft - representative of Crimean Tatars in Kyiv Suleyman Mamutov. @radiosvoboda |PR News
 
2014-02-28 05:31:57 AM  

Kittypie070: ...urm...


oh, please... no horking on the carpet, imelda just vacuumed... there's a teabag waiting for your contribution off to the right, no need to encourage the help to beg for tips... after all, what WOULD the neighbors think...
 
2014-02-28 05:40:12 AM  

ransack.: lumiere: ransack.: [redacted]

Why is that Saudi drinking whisky?

Why do you assume he is Saudi?

I'm not particularly on the ball and I don't consider myself bigoted or prejudiced, and I admit a level of ignorance and a willingness to be educated, and I hope nobody attacks me for this, but it's because every time I see a rich Saudi on TV or the internet, they always wear bright white head to toe with a headband like the guy in the cartoon, and most importantly, no moustache. Saudi Arabians have Amish-like beards that frame their face but they seem to never have moustaches. If I had to list groups of people who wear beards and not moustaches, I would say married Amish men, Saudi Arabian oligarchy, and then I would have to think about it for a while for any further examples.


I did not mean to imply any prejudice or bigotry on your end. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised by your reply. You may very well be right, the cartoon guy could be Saudi based on the attire.  But he could also be from anywhere else on the Arabian peninsula (where drinking is more or less accepted).

Going back to Saudi facial hair, the last six Saudi kings have all had moustaches. The current king, Abdullah, has a distinct one:

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

The Amish look you describe among Saudis may more likely be attributed to the extremist religious leaders. They tend to frame their face exactly as you mentioned. I'd post a picture but those are some ugly Luddites. And I'm allowed to say so because the Islam they preach and the sheer bullshiat they spread makes my skin crawl.

As far as drinking is concerned, it may not be allowed in Saudi Arabia, but it still happens, especially among the wealthy. And for the not so wealthy, a bottle of good whiskey is just a friend with diplomatic immunity plus a bridge away (Bahrain allows alcohol and the causeway between the two is 16 miles long).

Hope that helps.

/I speak from firsthand experience
 
2014-02-28 05:45:48 AM  
 
2014-02-28 05:49:26 AM  

Fail in Human Form: NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view. Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.

Nothing supports that view either. Why not just take the Crimea if that's their goal? Or at least openly declare that Russian forces will secure Crimean ports until stability is reached? This isn't permanent and it's not meant to be, because Russia knows they can't take Crimea. They want things back to the way they were six months ago, not a new unstable conflict in the region. They'll use what leverage and threats they have to get back to that position of being a favored, dominant power in Ukraine, but they won't risk armed conflict or sanctions over a new province they could do without. This isn't Abkhazia, it's farking Crimea. They can't have it.

They ARE taking it and doing so in a very calculated way.  Look into what they did in Afghanistan.  It's the same playbook.  By doing it this way they can essentially seize the area before they "officially" move in troops on a "humanitarian mission."


No, what they're doing is establishing their power and threat. Their goal is probably to restore Yanukovych to power, or if not to get someone equally favorable to them put in his place. They have repeatedly shown a strong interest in opposing uprisings and revolutions as a means of regime change. Their goal isn't to take Crimea, it's to put enough pressure on Ukraine that they bend to Russia's will. They aren't asserting a claim to Crimean territory, they aren't controlling anything but entry and exit points (and maybe the parliament, there's as yet no evidence they're directly involved in that though), they're just flexing their muscles. They're not stupid enough to incite what would likely be a very bloody civil war or to so directly oppose Western interests as to actually forcibly seize Ukrainian sovereign territory which they have been obliged by treaty for sixty years to respect. The very worst case scenario here is that, like with the Georgian provinces, they withdraw but Ukraine tacitly acknowledges greater autonomy for Crimea, and/or Yanukovych or someone similarly aligned regains power.
 
2014-02-28 05:51:35 AM  
"What's Tatars, precious?"
 
2014-02-28 05:51:53 AM  

NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view. Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.

Nothing supports that view either. Why not just take the Crimea if that's their goal? Or at least openly declare that Russian forces will secure Crimean ports until stability is reached? This isn't permanent and it's not meant to be, because Russia knows they can't take Crimea. They want things back to the way they were six months ago, not a new unstable conflict in the region. They'll use what leverage and threats they have to get back to that position of being a favored, dominant power in Ukraine, but they won't risk armed conflict or sanctions over a new province they could do without. This isn't Abkhazia, it's farking Crimea. They can't have it.

They ARE taking it and doing so in a very calculated way.  Look into what they did in Afghanistan.  It's the same playbook.  By doing it this way they can essentially seize the area before they "officially" move in troops on a "humanitarian mission."

No, what they're doing is establishing their power and threat. Their goal is probably to restore Yanukovych to power, or if not to get someone equally favorable to them put in his place. They have repeatedly shown a strong interest in opposing uprisings and revolutions as a means of regime change. Their goal isn't to take Crimea, it's to put enough pressure on Ukraine that they bend to Russia's will. They aren't asserting a claim to Crimean territory, they aren't controlling anything but entry and exit points (and maybe the parliament, there's as yet no evidence they're directly involved in that though), they're just flexing their muscles. They're not stupid enough to incite what would likely be a very bloody civil war or to so directly oppose Western interests as to actually forcibly seize Ukrainian sovereign territory which they have been obliged by treaty for sixty years to res ...


I think that's foolish given the evidence.

Euromaidan PR ?@EuromaidanPR 3m 
#Russian marines has captured in #Balaclava (#Crimea) military unit No 2382, our maritime border guards - #Lyashko FB |PR News #Ukraine
 
2014-02-28 06:07:49 AM  
I can't farking read this Twitter bullshiat hashtag language.  What the fark.  Just stop with the farking POUND symbol.  PLEASTOP!
 
2014-02-28 06:08:56 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I can't farking read this Twitter bullshiat hashtag language.  What the fark.  Just stop with the farking POUND symbol.  PLEASTOP!


Watch the BBC live feed
 
2014-02-28 06:14:09 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I can't farking read this Twitter bullshiat hashtag language.  What the fark.  Just stop with the farking POUND symbol.  PLEASTOP! #canttakeitanymore #nohashtag #angryfark

 
2014-02-28 06:19:35 AM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-28 06:21:11 AM  

lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784


That's most likely an AK-74M. Those and the AK-100 series have identical flash suppressors and polymer furniture, right down to the groove in the stock used to differentiate the 5.45-caliber rifes from the 7.62s.
 
2014-02-28 06:24:36 AM  
So tag them as terrorists and snipe the fark out of them.
Don't pussyfoot around, kill em.
 
2014-02-28 06:27:49 AM  
For those panicking, remember we have options. Kiev can threaten Moscow by seeking NATO membership if Putin doesn't withdraw his forces. Plus their are Gazprom's pipelines which can be struck. Major source of Russian revenue. At the end of the day, Putin is losing something.
 
2014-02-28 06:29:26 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I can't farking read this Twitter bullshiat hashtag language.  What the fark.  Just stop with the farking POUND symbol.  PLEASTOP!


Heh, wait until you see whatever the next iteration is...it'll probably be about as comprehensible to older fogies like me as heiroglyphics.
 
2014-02-28 06:30:05 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I can't farking read this Twitter bullshiat hashtag language.  What the fark.  Just stop with the farking POUND symbol.  PLEASTOP!


img.fark.net

/have fun with that.
//or...
//|\#\///
\\|\/\/\/|
|\\#.?./
26485
 
2014-02-28 06:31:57 AM  

prjindigo: So tag them as terrorists and snipe the fark out of them.
Don't pussyfoot around, kill em.


so, you know what snipe hunting is, right?
or don't girly scoutings make real men outta them brownies?
 
2014-02-28 06:36:32 AM  

Rev.Killjoy: Thought west was started as west of the berlin wall... may be wrong


I always assumed it was started by Constantine the Great.
 
2014-02-28 06:38:20 AM  

Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?


No. Putin "did not" send in "not Russian" forces to take the air and sea ports of Crimea, because Russia "never needed" a warm-water passage to the seas in either Russian or pro-Russian hands.
 
2014-02-28 06:41:28 AM  

ransack.: This happens here in Indiana. Every now and then, the town is patrolled by hundreds of stony faced armed men in riot gear and gas masks with no insignias and brandishing automatic rifles who will not speak of their identities or intentions. They just stand around and look intimidating for a few days, and then they disappear as mysteriously and quickly as they arrived.
Is this not normal?


Ok, I'm missing the joke, if there is one. What are you talking about?
 
2014-02-28 06:41:49 AM  

brimed03: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

No. Putin "did not" send in "not Russian" forces to take the air and sea ports of Crimea, because Russia "never needed" a warm-water passage to the seas in either Russian or pro-Russian hands.


files.abovetopsecret.com
 
2014-02-28 06:45:38 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

No you're not understanding it correctly.  The airport is operating normally.


That's good, I am planning on visiting later this year. It's bad enough that I'm not allowed back in Egypt anymore .
 
2014-02-28 06:47:10 AM  

Errk: violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.

Maybe we'll just sit this one out for a change.


For a change? Eastern Europe would consider this anything but a change.
 
2014-02-28 06:48:16 AM  

Testiclaw: brimed03: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

No. Putin "did not" send in "not Russian" forces to take the air and sea ports of Crimea, because Russia "never needed" a warm-water passage to the seas in either Russian or pro-Russian hands.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 512x288]

 
2014-02-28 06:49:15 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: lumiere: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Resident gun nut here.

Is it just me or are every single one of those AK-74's (yes 74) being carried with no magazine in the rifle?

Someone on Twitter said one of the armed men looked like he was carrying an AK-103.

https://twitter.com/alessaprentice/status/439309361593462784

I was not aware that rifle existed.  So, they replaced the AK47 with a smaller more accurate caliber in the AK74, only to put out a new rifle based on the 74 that's in the OLD caliber of the 47 but not actually a 47.

The More You Knooooowww!!!


While the new caliber had some interesting ballistic qualities, like the tendancy to wobble in flight and spoon/split in two when impacting a soft target, it was all but worthless against any barrier.
 
2014-02-28 06:58:22 AM  

NobleHam: Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.


Or it'll get out of hand. It'll get out of hand and we'll be lucky if we're not all killed.

/been covered but a refresh never hurts
//first time I saw Owen Wilson was that movie. My reaction was: decent actor, he'll do okay, but that *nose* is... distinctive. Totally called it.
 
2014-02-28 07:08:26 AM  
Boojum2k:

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.
If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then.


Obtaining EU membership is a long process, and Ukraine is a poor and corrupt nation without a chance to join the EU.

Russia is doing this the correct way, they're simply "providing monitoring forces", for the upcomming elections for independence of the autonomous republic of Crimea. They might even provide "peace keeping forces" should the situation in Crimea escalate.

By the general acceptance of self determination, there's not much Ukraine can do if Crimea votes to leave Ukraine IMHO. Unless they want to provoke an millitary conflict by rolling in tanks about now.
 
2014-02-28 07:11:41 AM  

RINO: lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296

If that's actually true and not just an excuse, that is very interesting.


Why not. It's going Russias was right now, with Crimea to vote on independence.

They'd want to keep the peace, and not have all kinds of armed groups with various motives shiatting the place up. Thus as I referred to theese troops earlier to be "monitoring the situation". Perhaps they should be upgraded to "protecting the democraticly elected institutions of Crimea"?
 
2014-02-28 07:14:14 AM  
If dubya was still president for life, he and his BFF Putin would smooth things right on over.

/got nothin' really
 
2014-02-28 07:15:01 AM  
Just a guess, but I'm betting that if you asked a dozen of those guys in unmarked uniforms to take off their shirts, you'd see rather a lot of tattoos that would indicate that they "used to" serve in the Russian military.

/Plus, shirtless men with guns, so the Republicans will be happy.
//NTTAWWT.
 
2014-02-28 07:15:06 AM  

NobleHam: Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.


The parliament of Crimea has announced that they're voting for independence in May, so, there.
 
2014-02-28 07:18:37 AM  
Fail in Human Form:

They ARE taking it and doing so in a very calculated way.  Look into what they did in Afghanistan.  It's the same playbook.  By doing it this way they can essentially seize the area before they "officially" move in troops on a "humanitarian mission."

The legitimate and recognised government of Afghanistan asked for the Soviet Union to send troops. You don't need quotation marks, that's what happened, unless you're perhaps reading some American history books twisting the truth.

I don't know if the government of Crimea has asked for the Russian troops to do this, in light of their upcomming election for indendence from Ukraine. But that does sound plausible.
 
2014-02-28 07:20:03 AM  

spawn73: Boojum2k:

violentsalvation: And there is nothing the west can do.
If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then.

Obtaining EU membership is a long process, and Ukraine is a poor and corrupt nation without a chance to join the EU.

Russia is doing this the correct way, they're simply "providing monitoring forces", for the upcomming elections for independence of the autonomous republic of Crimea. They might even provide "peace keeping forces" should the situation in Crimea escalate.

By the general acceptance of self determination, there's not much Ukraine can do if Crimea votes to leave Ukraine IMHO. Unless they want to provoke an millitary conflict by rolling in tanks about now.


Meanwhile, in Grozny, this newfound respect for self-determination is welcome news...
 
2014-02-28 07:20:47 AM  

jchuffyman: The Netherlands has made the "the" an official part of its name (also strange that they have one the few cities in the world with an article in its name as well).


Funnily enough, there's no definite article in the Dutch name (Nederland). And France has a large number of places with names like La Rochelle, Le Havre, Les Ulis, and Le Mans.

As for Russia and (the) Ukraine, I say let the Scandinavians bring some order like in the old days.
 
2014-02-28 07:21:50 AM  

NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: NobleHam: Fail in Human Form: Nothing that's been happening so far supports that view. Russia sees a chance to move in to the Crimea and by all indications they're taking it.

Nothing supports that view either. Why not just take the Crimea if that's their goal? Or at least openly declare that Russian forces will secure Crimean ports until stability is reached? This isn't permanent and it's not meant to be, because Russia knows they can't take Crimea. They want things back to the way they were six months ago, not a new unstable conflict in the region. They'll use what leverage and threats they have to get back to that position of being a favored, dominant power in Ukraine, but they won't risk armed conflict or sanctions over a new province they could do without. This isn't Abkhazia, it's farking Crimea. They can't have it.

They ARE taking it and doing so in a very calculated way.  Look into what they did in Afghanistan.  It's the same playbook.  By doing it this way they can essentially seize the area before they "officially" move in troops on a "humanitarian mission."

No, what they're doing is establishing their power and threat. Their goal is probably to restore Yanukovych to power, or if not to get someone equally favorable to them put in his place. They have repeatedly shown a strong interest in opposing uprisings and revolutions as a means of regime change. Their goal isn't to take Crimea, it's to put enough pressure on Ukraine that they bend to Russia's will. They aren't asserting a claim to Crimean territory, they aren't controlling anything but entry and exit points (and maybe the parliament, there's as yet no evidence they're directly involved in that though), they're just flexing their muscles. They're not stupid enough to incite what would likely be a very bloody civil war or to so directly oppose Western interests as to actually forcibly seize Ukrainian sovereign territory which they have been obliged by treaty for sixty years to respect. The very worst case scenario here is that, like with the Georgian provinces, they withdraw but Ukraine tacitly acknowledges greater autonomy for Crimea, and/or Yanukovych or someone similarly aligned regains power.


Nope.

I admit to being fairly ignorant on these geopolitics, but your scenario doesn't even sound right.

After all the protests, no *way* the people of western (and pro-Western) Ukraine are letting Yanukovych back into Kiev, much less the presidency. And don't make the mistake of thinking the politicians are in charge there. The people are too fresh off the barricades.

I might concede your idea about "reminding" Ukraine about keeping Crimean waters and ports friendly to Russian interests. But otoh I wouldn't put it past Putin to encourage a civil war, splitting the country and *then* installing Yanukovych as president of Eastern Ukraine. Taking the Crimea might be a start, a military tactic to ensure an air and naval foothold for Russian forces.

Honestly, I think that, as in Georgia, Putin is also testing world world reaction to see what he can annex if the old empire-- er, Republic.
 
2014-02-28 07:22:50 AM  

spawn73: NobleHam: Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.

The parliament of Crimea has announced that they're voting for independence in May, so, there.


One benefit of Crimea declaring independence would that it would make Russia's claims on Ukraine that much more transparently bullshiat the next time Russia takes it over.

Not that it matters much.
 
2014-02-28 07:24:13 AM  

spawn73: NobleHam: Russia's just trying to remind Ukraine what it could do. It doesn't want an anti-Russian government revoking its leases in Sevastopol, so it's asserting that it could just take the whole Peninsula if it really wanted to. Obviously, of course, it couldn't. The Tatars wouldn't allow it, and the Russians don't do that well in hostile occupations, not to mention the international consequences. Russia likes to play tough enough to get what it wants, but it doesn't step over lines that could hurt it economically or its leaders financially.

Ukraine will gain control over Crimea again before long, but Russia will push for a unity government to ensure its interests are looked after and it will likely seek concessions from Ukraine, such as continued favorable trade agreements and an agreement not to seek further integration with the EU and continuing to abstain from NATO.

The parliament of Crimea has announced that they're voting for independence in May, so, there.


The parliament of Crimea controlled by a group of armed separatists. No international or national body would recognize that as the legitimate will of the people of Crimea, nor is there any realistic reason to expect that those who made that announcement will have any semblance of power by May.
 
2014-02-28 07:24:21 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: "What's Tatars, precious?"


Win.

/I would also have accepted a Ron White reference
 
2014-02-28 07:25:20 AM  

brimed03: Nope.

I admit to being fairly ignorant on these geopolitics, but your scenario doesn't even sound right.

After all the protests, no *way* the people of western (and pro-Western) Ukraine are letting Yanukovych back into Kiev, much less the presidency. And don't make the mistake of thinking the politicians are in charge there. The people are too fresh off the barricades.

I might concede your idea about "reminding" Ukraine about keeping Crimean waters and ports friendly to Russian interests. But otoh I wouldn't put it past Putin to encourage a civil war, splitting the country and *then* installing Yanukovych as president of Eastern Ukraine. Taking the Crimea might be a start, a military tactic to ensure an air and naval foothold for Russian forces.

Honestly, I think that, as in Georgia, Putin is also testing world world reaction to see what he can annex if the old empire-- er, Republic.


Keep in mind the current state of the Russian military is not particularly admirable. Most of anything useful is deployed South and anything left over isn't really capable of offensive ops.
 
2014-02-28 07:25:59 AM  
President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.
 
Esn
2014-02-28 07:28:15 AM  
All the Western news channels are now complaining about armed groups "taking over" parliament buildings and airports in Crimea - but were saying NOTHING back when the pro-Maidan armed groups were doing the same thing in Western Ukraine. Like always with the West, it's only a problem when the OTHER side uses those tactics.

I am reluctantly beginning to think now that the West's consistently slanted coverage and actions have nothing to do with human rights or ideology, but are motivated by ethnic hatred of Russians, pure and simple. I live here, so I really don't WANT to think that, but I really don't have many options.

There's a really good summary of all the background and history to this current conflict over here. There are also other good recent articles on that blog about the recent events.

Here's a particularly nice quote from the end of that article:

...as I recently wrote, the US and the EU have very different objective in the Ukraine: the EU wants a market for its goods and services, the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

And then, there is the "S factor": stupidity, plain and simple.  What often seems to be the result of some Machiavellian plan cooked up in a deep basement of the White House, the CIA or the Pentagon is often a mind-blowing example of the truly phenomenal stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of our leaders.  They believe themselves to be so powerful as to be free from the need to understand a culture, a history or even a single foreign language.  After all, if a US policy was to fail somewhere, the response could always be the same: f*ck them!  F*ck the Yugoslavs! F*ck the Serbs!  F*ck the Iraqis!  F*ck the Afghans!  F*ck the Pakistanis!  F*ck the Libyans, and the Egyptians, and the Palestinians, and f*ck the Somalis, the Koreans, the Colombians and the Venezuelans and, of course, f*ck the Canadians, the Mexicans, and the Africans, and, of course, f*ck the Russians, f*ck the Chinese, and f*ck everybody else with it!   No matter how stupid or how destructive a US policy towards another party is - it either works, or f*ck them!  Ms. Nuland's words could really become the State Department's or the CIA's official motto.
 
2014-02-28 07:28:54 AM  

RottenEggs: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Testiclaw: So Putin sent in Russian forces to blockade airports and means to leave the country?  Am I understanding this correctly?

No you're not understanding it correctly.  The airport is operating normally.

That's good, I am planning on visiting later this year. It's bad enough that I'm not allowed back in Egypt anymore .


Oh yeah. *That's* why I have you tagged as "camel-f*cker."

/I kid
 
2014-02-28 07:29:58 AM  

vygramul: spawn73:

By the general acceptance of self determination, there's not much Ukraine can do if Crimea votes to leave Ukraine IMHO. Unless they want to provoke an millitary conflict by rolling in tanks about now.

Meanwhile, in Grozny, this newfound respect for self-determination is welcome news...


Don't they have oil or something. ;)

Looking it up on Wikipedia, it seems the argumentative difference is that Chechnya weren't ever an independent entity within the Soviet Union, unlike the Baltic states for instance. And thus they couldn't cesede as per the Soviet/Russian constitution.

Crimea is however an independent entity within Ukraine, in that it is an autonomous region. So, hypocracy perhaps. But not quite similar.
 
2014-02-28 07:30:30 AM  

Ilmarinen: jchuffyman: The Netherlands has made the "the" an official part of its name (also strange that they have one the few cities in the world with an article in its name as well).

Funnily enough, there's no definite article in the Dutch name (Nederland). And France has a large number of places with names like La Rochelle, Le Havre, Les Ulis, and Le Mans.

As for Russia and (the) Ukraine, I say let the Scandinavians bring some order like in the old days.


I know that, but at some point they decided that the official English name of their country would include it. Why? I don't know
 
2014-02-28 07:33:12 AM  

grchunt: Just a guess, but I'm betting that if you asked a dozen of those guys in unmarked uniforms to take off their shirts, you'd see rather a lot of tattoos that would indicate that they "used to" serve in the Russian military.

/Plus, shirtless men with guns, so the Republicans will be happy.
//NTTAWWT.


I don't think Republicans are allowed to get "happy" for that.

/except in Log Cabins
 
2014-02-28 07:33:52 AM  

Esn: All the Western news channels are now complaining about armed groups "taking over" parliament buildings and airports in Crimea - but were saying NOTHING back when the pro-Maidan armed groups were doing the same thing in Western Ukraine. Like always with the West, it's only a problem when the OTHER side uses those tactics.


I found that quite remarkable as well. The EU did broker a deal, which both the protesters and the president signed.

The protesters then violated it, and the Western media celebrated it like it was a major victory.
 
2014-02-28 07:34:29 AM  
Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.
 
2014-02-28 07:36:07 AM  

whither_apophis: Cannon to right of them
Cannon to left of them
Cannon in front of them
Vollyed and thunder'd


You are my hero!

If anyone is interested in a history lesson.  Weird transitions, decent movie.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-28 07:36:42 AM  

Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...


Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.
 
2014-02-28 07:37:38 AM  

brimed03: After all the protests, no *way* the people of western (and pro-Western) Ukraine are letting Yanukovych back into Kiev, much less the presidency. And don't make the mistake of thinking the politicians are in charge there. The people are too fresh off the barricades.


I said that's an absolute worst case scenario, I don't think it's likely, but that's probably Russia's ideal goal.

I might concede your idea about "reminding" Ukraine about keeping Crimean waters and ports friendly to Russian interests. But otoh I wouldn't put it past Putin to encourage a civil war, splitting the country and *then* installing Yanukovych as president of Eastern Ukraine. Taking the Crimea might be a start, a military tactic to ensure an air and naval foothold for Russian forces.

Putin is self-interested. It would be in Russia's (and therefore his) interests to have substantial influence over Ukraine. But I don't think you understand the sort of backlash that would result from actually claiming the Crimean peninsula as Russian territory. The economic and military gains of having Crimea as a Russian province would pale in comparison to the economic sanctions from the West and the potential devastating bloodshed across Ukraine caused by Russia asserting a territorial claim to a part of Ukraine. That's not even to mention the fact that, as I've mentioned, Russia agreed in treaty to respect the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine 60 years ago. Even disregarding the numerous other breaches of international law they would have to make to gain Crimea and integral territory of Russia, there are multiple parties, not least the U.S., who would be obliged to respond to a breech of that particular treaty.

There is far too much trouble to be had from inciting or causing a civil war in Ukraine, and all nations, including Russia, will want to avoid that. Russia is by far the most realpolitik nation in the world, and Russia has no interest in turning the West overtly against it. They will go as far as they think they safely can in order to seek and/or secure advantages for Russia, but they won't do anything that could damage their position, and I think encouraging any sort of division in Ukraine would be very unwise for them. They're not idiots. They're possibly the most brilliant realist actors in international relations today. They have no logical reason to seek instability.
 
2014-02-28 07:39:38 AM  

rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.


Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.
 
2014-02-28 07:41:25 AM  

Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.


Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!
 
2014-02-28 07:41:47 AM  

AngryDragon: whither_apophis: Cannon to right of them
Cannon to left of them
Cannon in front of them
Vollyed and thunder'd

You are my hero!

If anyone is interested in a history lesson.  Weird transitions, decent movie.

[i.imgur.com image 327x477]


Delightfully weird transitions. Not a movie I'd rush to see again, but I didn't feel I wasted my time watching it. It would be possible to remake it and create a gem of a movie.
 
2014-02-28 07:43:00 AM  
So no one else, huh. Ok, I'll do it:

WOLVERIIIIINNNES!!!
 
2014-02-28 07:44:37 AM  

way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!


We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.
 
Esn
2014-02-28 07:53:22 AM  

vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.


To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they are doing very well (not that this is all their fault, not by a long shot).

Again, just because you are unaware of your leaders' strategy, doesn't mean that it's not their strategy.

Did the Western media mention the phoned threats that were made to opposition lawmakers? Or the opposition leader's house that was blown up? Or the police officers who were killed by "peaceful protesters" before those police finally fired back? (I wonder how the American police would've reacted if a crowd began to kill some of them?) Or the very strong neo-Nazi presence in the new security forces? Or that Yanukovich (the imbecile) had ALREADY signed a surrender agreement, but the armed crowd (which is not really controlled by the "official" political leaders) reneged on the agreement? They did not, because those sorts of things ruin their story.
 
2014-02-28 07:54:05 AM  

mikaloyd: The Ohio state University


I've just learned that we are a region.
 
2014-02-28 07:54:15 AM  

vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.


You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.
 
2014-02-28 07:58:57 AM  

NobleHam: But I don't think you understand the sort of backlash that would result from actually claiming the Crimean peninsula as Russian territory.


Or maybe we do, and you will end up being wrong about every assurance you give that Putin will be happy with just the territory he has now.

/you know who else kept being appeased by people making the same promises you're making?
 
2014-02-28 08:02:35 AM  
blogossus.files.wordpress.com
 
Esn
2014-02-28 08:02:41 AM  

vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.


I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.
 
2014-02-28 08:05:43 AM  
"/you know who else kept being appeased by people making the same promises you're making?"

and.... we're done.

www.cyburbia.org
 
2014-02-28 08:06:05 AM  
According to arms experts looking at the recent photos, the unidentified men at Simferopol Airport are carrying guns that are equipped with special plugs that are used at trainings, and their guns can fire only blanks.

WTF
 
2014-02-28 08:11:15 AM  

way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!


That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!
 
2014-02-28 08:12:32 AM  
Well, at least he waited until after the Olympics.   Would hated to have any sort of politics ruin the games.
 
2014-02-28 08:12:33 AM  

traylor: According to arms experts looking at the recent photos, the unidentified men at Simferopol Airport are carrying guns that are equipped with special plugs that are used at trainings, and their guns can fire only blanks.

WTF


Sochi Limited Editions!
 
2014-02-28 08:15:31 AM  

brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!


You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.
 
2014-02-28 08:22:03 AM  

Esn: All the Western news channels are now complaining about armed groups "taking over" parliament buildings and airports in Crimea - but were saying NOTHING back when the pro-Maidan armed groups were doing the same thing in Western Ukraine. Like always with the West, it's only a problem when the OTHER side uses those tactics.

I am reluctantly beginning to think now that the West's consistently slanted coverage and actions have nothing to do with human rights or ideology, but are motivated by ethnic hatred of Russians, pure and simple. I live here, so I really don't WANT to think that, but I really don't have many options.

There's a really good summary of all the background and history to this current conflict over here. There are also other good recent articles on that blog about the recent events.

Here's a particularly nice quote from the end of that article:

...as I recently wrote, the US and the EU have very different objective in the Ukraine: the EU wants a market for its goods and services, the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

And then, there is the "S factor": stupidity, plain and simple.  What often seems to be the result of some Machiavellian plan cooked up in a deep basement of the White House, the CIA or the Pentagon is often a mind-blowing example of the truly phenomenal stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of our leaders.  They believe themselves to be so powerful as to be free from the need to u ...


Oh, get a f*cking grip. You and everybody else biatching about the "western media". The western media as opposed to what? The Russian media, which has a long history of destroying any dissenting voices and routinely imprisons or murders journalists? The Chinese media, who will avoid at all costs showing a successful people's revolution in case some one at home suddenly thinks "hey, that looks like a good idea"? Al-Jazeera? Well, OK but are they saying anything different than anybody else?

Not to mention the fact that  there is a vast difference between an angry populace taking government buildings and a heavily armed military force not wearing any insignia (by the way, if these guys are Russian military then unmarked uniforms are whooping breach of the Geneva Convention) who are also refusing to disclose their objectives, orders or affiliation.

I lived in Moscow for two years. I have nothing against the Russian people. Putin however is a megalomaniacal thug, playing on Russian people's long-held and deep-rooted (and historically not without cause) fear of invasion and subjugation.
 
2014-02-28 08:23:50 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 08:30:25 AM  

Esn: vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.

To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they ar ...


There's a difference between predicting what Russia will eventually do and feeling any particular need to do about it. In addition, to say that proves we want to hurt them as much as not giving in on a Polish corridor is proof people wanted to hurt Germany.

And please, the media is in the business of what will make money, not what the truth is or what the government wants. Russians as poor, innocent victims doesn't sell. And no non-Russian East of Danzig sure as heck buys it.
 
2014-02-28 08:31:26 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.


Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.
 
2014-02-28 08:31:27 AM  

brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!


If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect
 
2014-02-28 08:33:45 AM  

Esn: vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.

I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.


The Holodomor was intentional. The proof is in the process in other Soviet Republics, including the Russian SSR. It was a genocide, clear to anyone who actually looks at the actions of the Russian government.
 
2014-02-28 08:37:11 AM  

jchuffyman: Ilmarinen: jchuffyman: The Netherlands has made the "the" an official part of its name (also strange that they have one the few cities in the world with an article in its name as well).

Funnily enough, there's no definite article in the Dutch name (Nederland). And France has a large number of places with names like La Rochelle, Le Havre, Les Ulis, and Le Mans.

As for Russia and (the) Ukraine, I say let the Scandinavians bring some order like in the old days.

I know that, but at some point they decided that the official English name of their country would include it. Why? I don't know



The older Dutch, French (les Pays-Bas), and German (die Niederlande) names include it as well. The reason for that is that until 1795 it wasn't a single country, but a confederation of 7 sovereign provinces (hence the plural).
 
2014-02-28 08:37:36 AM  
i'm getting a bayonet for my horse. i'll mount it on his nose. it's the only way I can defend my binder full of women.
 
2014-02-28 08:38:47 AM  

mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.


+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.
 
2014-02-28 08:39:02 AM  

Esn: vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.

I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.


"Holodomor" sounds like the greeting you'd get at the Mordor Wal-Mart from servant-cum-greeter Hodor.

/huh huh, "cum"
//Anyone else think Martin's trying to subtly compare himself to Tolkein with the whole G.R.R./T.R.R. thing?
 
2014-02-28 08:44:15 AM  

Medic Zero: mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.

+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.


It certainly fits into sentences better that way.
 
2014-02-28 08:48:03 AM  

AngryDragon: brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.


Why? Because I mirrored back the same politiderp that Obama haters regularly spew? Where's your indignation when that stuff gets posted?
 
2014-02-28 08:49:07 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Can't send an aircraft carrier through the Dardanelles by treaty.

Some actual action by the west to back up its words would be good, though it is possible that this entire thing is a local power grab by the pro-Russian politicians in the Crimea. Too big an action would escalate the crisis unnecessarily.
 
2014-02-28 08:51:59 AM  

Esn: vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.

To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they are doing very well (not that this is all their fault, not by a long shot).

Again, just because you are unaware of your leaders' strategy, doesn't mean that it's not their strategy.

Did the Western media mention the phoned threats that were made to opposition lawmakers? Or the opposition leader's house that was blown up? Or the police officers who were killed by "peaceful protesters" before those police finally fired back? (I wonder how the American police would've reacted if a crowd began to kill some of them?) Or the very strong neo-Nazi presence in the new security forces? Or that Yanukovich (the imbecile) had ALREADY signed a surrender agreement, but the armed crowd (which is not really controlled by the "official" political leaders) reneged on the agreement? They did not, because those sorts of things ruin their story.


Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.
 
2014-02-28 08:55:19 AM  

vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.


No we won't. We reset our relations with Russia, don't you remember? The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.

It's just too bad that Hilldog isn't still in the saddle. When asked questions about Ukraine she could reply with a quick, "What difference does it make?" and every one will forget about it.
 
2014-02-28 08:56:59 AM  

vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.


If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.


Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.
 
2014-02-28 09:03:31 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Sure you want to refer to "Ronnie" and "crazy" in the same post? Me, I just wouldn't want to risk giving people the reminder.

It's a much different world than the simple black hat/white hat days painted in the Reagan era. Mittens would not have realized that any better than Dubya.

And Putin would have shrugged at your carrier; neither Mittens nor Dubya would have pulled the trigger, and he knows it. A threat is not a threat if you're not willing to follow through on it. In fact, it just makes you look weaker. Obama knows all these things.

/you know how they say the Chinese see everything as a nail to be hammered down? Republicans see everything as a problem to bomb. Which is how we go from mujahideen killing Russians in Afghanistan to Taliban killing Americans in Afghanistan.
 
2014-02-28 09:06:38 AM  
Have something to do with the "ex" president being in Russia? Ensuring he can return? Are those troops really Russian? I read about these flags, but I don't see them.
 
2014-02-28 09:06:40 AM  
I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.
 
2014-02-28 09:10:32 AM  

Ishkur: He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.


You know who has no fingers, no thumbs, no hands, no arms and a string in his teeth but can still manage to say "I'm gonna farking shoot your ass you insensitive prick"?

This guy!

arthurkade.com
 
2014-02-28 09:10:57 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Also: there's a difference between a president inept enough to publicly call Putin "a danger" and a President who recognizes it privately but doesn't close off half his options for dealing with the crazy.

Pandering for votes versus being Presidential (aka thinking ahead).
 
2014-02-28 09:14:14 AM  

p4p3rm4t3: Have something to do with the "ex" president being in Russia? Ensuring he can return? Are those troops really Russian? I read about these flags, but I don't see them.


Indeed SOMETHINNGS FARKY RICKY

LINK
 
2014-02-28 09:15:12 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.

If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.


Clearly, you've never been around my dog when we're trying to put her on a new brand of kibble.
 
2014-02-28 09:17:54 AM  
This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.
 
Esn
2014-02-28 09:18:29 AM  

MinkeyMan: Oh, get a f*cking grip. You and everybody else biatching about the "western media". The western media as opposed to what? The Russian media, which has a long history of destroying any dissenting voices and routinely imprisons or murders journalists? The Chinese media, who will avoid at all costs showing a successful people's revolution in case some one at home suddenly thinks "hey, that looks like a good idea"? Al-Jazeera? Well, OK but are they saying anything different than anybody else?


All of those are good choices. You will NOT FIND a media source that is neutral about everything - EVERY MEDIA SOURCE is compromised - the trick is understanding what subjects they are compromised on.  If you live in the West:

The mainstream Western news channels are, as Glenn Greenwald said, "courtiers to power". They represent "the path of least resistance": good for understanding the official state, military and financial elites' positions about what you should think. They will be neutral about subjects that those elites have no interest in. They represent different internal political factions, but there are nevertheless many things that none of them will question, and people (especially academics) that they will not bring on.

RT is the channel for Western dissidents - it's like what Voice of America was to the Soviet Union. It gives lots of airtime to Western Solzhenitsyns (the restless intelligentsia) with the aim of destabilizing the present Western power structure. RT doesn't care if those dissidents' ideology is not Putin-friendly as long as they talk about the West and not Russia. (RT's coverage about Russia and allied states is friendly and tends to omit embarrassing details. It also mentions positive details that the Western stations don't)

Al Jazeera's blind spot has been demonstrated by the crises in Syria and Egypt: any group ideologically tied to the Muslim Brotherhood or its allies (including Islamist militant groups, and obviously Qatar) will be treated kindly, while its enemies will be treated poorly. On other topics, Al Jazeera is a serious and sane news station, whose main worth lies in a greater breadth of covered topics, compared to the U.S. media, which is mostly preoccupied with things that don't matter (celebrities, human interest stories, political kabuki theatre).

CCTV News is Chinese. They're not revolution-stirring like RT; they try to be a general-purpose international news station but are not quite as good as Al Jazeera. They have a different blind spot: China instead of Islamists. They also sometimes show quite interesting China-centric perspectives (I particularly remember the live physics class from the Chinese space station...).
 
2014-02-28 09:18:41 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.

If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.


I've been meaning to ask ITT: didn't I just read-- on a Fark link I believe-- that the Russians had suddenly massed troops on their western (i.e., Ukraine) border "for training exercises?"
 
2014-02-28 09:18:42 AM  

lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296


Only some militants?  Not all the militants?
 
2014-02-28 09:21:14 AM  

zimbomba63: I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.


You know how I know you're *not* talking about me?

Because I didn't pass the exam.
 
2014-02-28 09:22:35 AM  

Prevailing Wind: Ishkur: He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.

You know who has no fingers, no thumbs, no hands, no arms and a string in his teeth but can still manage to say "I'm gonna farking shoot your ass you insensitive prick"?

This guy!


Farking. Amazing.

That dude rocks.
 
2014-02-28 09:25:02 AM  

SlothB77: This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.


You know it is only the Army being reduced to pre-ww2 levels?  And pre-ww2 the Army included the Air Force?  And if you combine the Army and the Air Force proposed troop strengths they would still far exceed pre-ww2 Army troop strength?  And the Navy and USMC are both far larger than their pre-ww2 sizes?  Right?
 
Esn
2014-02-28 09:30:43 AM  

danzak: Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.


Here's a source.
Here's a recent video.
Here's a Western Ukrainian priest calling for a campaign of assassination and terror. (yes, this was a while ago - but many of the armed people on the streets are directly inspired by this ideology)

And I was mistaken, the house (belonging to the Communist Party leader) was not blown up; it was destroyed by fire.
 
2014-02-28 09:31:32 AM  

brimed03: zimbomba63: I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.

You know how I know you're *not* talking about me?

Because I didn't pass the exam.


I'm studying for my Geopolitics Certification through my penitentiary courses.
 
2014-02-28 09:38:34 AM  

jaybeezey: The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.


What an odd slur.
 
2014-02-28 09:44:01 AM  

SlothB77: This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.




Because what we clearly need at this time is to become entangled in a civil war half way around the world. That has worked well for us in the last 13 years.
 
2014-02-28 09:45:24 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: jaybeezey: The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.

What an odd slur.


Yeah, we may be soap-dodging dairy-products eating cowards but we look 10 times better than this guy.

/off to read the actual thread now.
 
2014-02-28 09:47:50 AM  

Esn: danzak: Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.

Here's a source.
Here's a recent video.
Here's a Western Ukrainian priest calling for a campaign of assassination and terror. (yes, this was a while ago - but many of the armed people on the streets are directly inspired by this ideology)

And I was mistaken, the house (belonging to the Communist Party leader) was not blown up; it was destroyed by fire.


RT is a Russian news source, used to called Russia Today. Not exactly a neutral source
The video of the priest is from 2010, not sure what that has to do with your points
The guy telling biatch to shut up is again, from RT.  Still, one pissed off guy telling someone who has been part of of the problem to shut up does not back up your claims

what about the protesters shooting at police?
Don't pick and choose and try not using Russian media sources
 
2014-02-28 10:05:31 AM  
Anyone else notice none of the guns are loaded?

pixel.nymag.com
Why are the police not rounding them up.  No national insignia,  no reason they cannot be armed terrorists and the police are acting in public interest.

Smells fishy to me....
 
2014-02-28 10:06:09 AM  

brimed03: Sure you want to refer to "Ronnie" and "crazy" in the same post? Me, I just wouldn't want to risk giving people the reminder.


Well, that's because you're a humorless moron who can't understand how anybody could call their leaders "crazy" and expect to get away with it unpunished. Thanks for providing yet another example of how the left can't comprehend the right.

/you may be right
//we may be crazy
///but it just might be a lunatic we're looking for
 
2014-02-28 10:12:55 AM  

brimed03: AngryDragon: brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.

Why? Because I mirrored back the same politiderp that Obama haters regularly spew? Where's your indignation when that stuff gets posted?


Actually I was addressing both of you.
 
2014-02-28 10:36:12 AM  
A defense advisor the Telegraph talked to says these guys are wearing Spetsnaz equipment
 
2014-02-28 10:39:22 AM  
I knew the Obama administration was hot under the collar after the Russians denied the military-industrial complex's next profit source, but I had no idea just how far the Fedcoats would go for payback.

There was the Olympics, in which terrorists would run amok that didn't pan out (remember the big scene of moving Navy ships in to evacuate Americans? LOL), no one cared that the hotels asked you to place paper in a basket rather than flush it, and instead of Russian failures we got Americans acting like assholes again. Insinuating that everyone else was cheating (ice skating), that failures on the slopes was course design (downhill events), and the creme de la creme, blame-the-tech-you-didn't-win-we-just-lost (speed skating). Then the Russians took the medal count, and the Russian-bashing hit a fever pitch.

NBC's oh-so-clever use of 'former Soviet Union' as if that is analogous to Russia is misleading and just plain wrong. Fox News has picked up on this propaganda device, as well.

Then there's the Ukraine. If this seems to popped up out of nowhere, that's because it has. Suddenly, after last summer's denial of a Syrian War, the issue of joining the EU was suddenly pushed even after the Georgia fiasco. It's payback.
 
2014-02-28 10:42:13 AM  

airish: You know it is only the Army being reduced to pre-ww2 levels?  And pre-ww2 the Army included the Air Force?  And if you combine the Army and the Air Force proposed troop strengths they would still far exceed pre-ww2 Army troop strength?  And the Navy and USMC are both far larger than their pre-ww2 sizes?  Right?


... and a lot of jobs the Army used to do internally are now handled by civilian contractors so you should include them too. I too am annoyed by the way these cuts are portrayed as "the smallest army since pre-WWII". The fighting ability, and especially the deployability/logistics, of the 1939 army versus the 2014 army are not even comparable.

If we have to fight the Russians or the Chinese we'll need a hell of a lot bigger army either way. Having 450,000 troops instead of 520,000 isn't exactly going to be the deciding factor. On the other hand, being able to keep the Navy at full strength might actually BE worth it.
 
2014-02-28 10:45:55 AM  

Medic Zero: mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.

+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.


Well, we say "the Universe" not "Universe", and we say "the Urals" not "Urals", so it would seem that prefixing "the" to the beginning of proper place names that start with a "you" sound is standard in English, but then we don't do it for "Uganda" or "Uruguay", so perhaps not.

Maybe we can just say that English is inconsistent on the matter, and leave it at that.
 
2014-02-28 10:47:03 AM  

ransack.: Someone said the other day they tried to use this headline. I hope it was this submitter and somebody else didn't just steal their joke.


That would be the real tragedy here.
 
2014-02-28 10:48:34 AM  

dittybopper: Maybe we can just say that English is inconsistent on the matter, and leave it at that.


IIRC, the English use the "the" in "The Sudan" as well.
 
2014-02-28 10:52:08 AM  

gmoney101: Anyone else notice none of the guns are loaded?


I'm sure that they have a few clips in their pockets, just in case.  The main goal here is to present a show of force, not ignite a full on kerfuffle.
 
2014-02-28 11:06:34 AM  

dukeblue219: airish: You know it is only the Army being reduced to pre-ww2 levels?  And pre-ww2 the Army included the Air Force?  And if you combine the Army and the Air Force proposed troop strengths they would still far exceed pre-ww2 Army troop strength?  And the Navy and USMC are both far larger than their pre-ww2 sizes?  Right?

... and a lot of jobs the Army used to do internally are now handled by civilian contractors so you should include them too. I too am annoyed by the way these cuts are portrayed as "the smallest army since pre-WWII". The fighting ability, and especially the deployability/logistics, of the 1939 army versus the 2014 army are not even comparable.

If we have to fight the Russians or the Chinese we'll need a hell of a lot bigger army either way. Having 450,000 troops instead of 520,000 isn't exactly going to be the deciding factor. On the other hand, being able to keep the Navy at full strength might actually BE worth it.


Excellent point, by the way.

The 'troop strength' argument rests on the number of active-duty, uniformed members. The USG realized long ago that the easiest way to expand the Armed Forces - conversely, make 'cuts' without actually reducing overall strength - is to shift more responsibility to other agencies not in the respective military budgets. How to 'cut' the Air Force? Move the Military Police functions to private contractors, which 'cuts' the Air Force but is balanced by an increase somewhere else. Preferably somewhere completely off the 'defense' budget like the Authorizations for the various and sundry wars.

Similarly, moving military functions to so-called 'black' budgets is helpful. No one knows the true size of these budgets. That's why the Drone War is operated by the CIA and not the military.

In no way, shape, or form, has the Offense Budget been cut since World War 2.
 
2014-02-28 11:07:28 AM  

gmoney101: Anyone else notice none of the guns are loaded?

[pixel.nymag.com image 850x575]
Why are the police not rounding them up.  No national insignia,  no reason they cannot be armed terrorists and the police are acting in public interest.

Smells fishy to me....


Yes, and in the end of their barrels there is a special plug which makes the guns capable to fire only blanks.

Their uniform pattern is common in the Russian Army, maybe it is also adopted in the Ukrainian forces, but not commonly used. You can buy this kind of uniform in many shops on the Internet.

The men do not wear any insignia, their truck had no license plates.

If you ask me, they are civilians on a trolling roll.
 
2014-02-28 11:12:59 AM  
Nice touch not having any patches or anything to identify who these "militas" are.
 
2014-02-28 11:21:08 AM  
This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)
 
2014-02-28 11:23:27 AM  

traylor: You can buy this kind of uniform in many shops on the Internet.


An internet shop, eh, comrade?
 
2014-02-28 11:25:39 AM  

dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)


Oh ffs.
 
2014-02-28 11:34:07 AM  

dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)


I don't automatically believe this. News outfits have enormous pressure to report rumors and be first.
 
2014-02-28 11:38:49 AM  

vygramul: dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)

I don't automatically believe this. News outfits have enormous pressure to report rumors and be first.


I can believe it, but just because I don't see anything extraordinary in Russian planes landing at international airports and APC's moving around military camps. I bet they did that every day in the last ten years.
 
2014-02-28 11:39:24 AM  

vygramul: dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)

I don't automatically believe this. News outfits have enormous pressure to report rumors and be first.


There is many confusing reports out there right now.
 
2014-02-28 11:44:33 AM  

traylor: vygramul: dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)

I don't automatically believe this. News outfits have enormous pressure to report rumors and be first.

I can believe it, but just because I don't see anything extraordinary in Russian planes landing at international airports and APC's moving around military camps. I bet they did that every day in the last ten years.


16:39: A convoy of nine Russian armoured personnel carriers and a truck have been seen by AP journalists on a road between the Crimean port city of Sevastopol and the regional capital, Sinferopol, the news agency says.

That's a bit different.  Especially since:

16:19: Mr Lavrov [Russian Foreign Minister] says Russia has no intention of violating Ukraine's sovereignty, Reuters quotes him a saying.

I understand that The Russians have permission from Ukraine to have russian troops in and around the  navy base in Sevastopol, but armed convoys going to the state capital sounds likes they're pushing it...
 
2014-02-28 11:52:47 AM  

traylor: gmoney101: Anyone else notice none of the guns are loaded?

[pixel.nymag.com image 850x575]
Why are the police not rounding them up.  No national insignia,  no reason they cannot be armed terrorists and the police are acting in public interest.

Smells fishy to me....

Yes, and in the end of their barrels there is a special plug which makes the guns capable to fire only blanks.

Their uniform pattern is common in the Russian Army, maybe it is also adopted in the Ukrainian forces, but not commonly used. You can buy this kind of uniform in many shops on the Internet.

The men do not wear any insignia, their truck had no license plates.

If you ask me, they are civilians on a trolling roll.


No that is just the regular muzzle device/brake.
 
2014-02-28 11:57:35 AM  

Esn: danzak: Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.

Here's a source.
Here's a recent video.
Here's a Western Ukrainian priest calling for a campaign of assassination and terror. (yes, this was a while ago - but many of the armed people on the streets are directly inspired by this ideology)

And I was mistaken, the house (belonging to the Communist Party leader) was not blown up; it was destroyed by fire.


RT? Really? Ahaha ahahaha!... oh my that's adorable.

That's like Fox reporting something done by someone who's not a Republican: "non-Republican does something somewhere... it's an outrage!!!!111"

You're a dumb ass.
 
2014-02-28 12:07:46 PM  

nullptr: No that is just the regular muzzle device/brake.


img.fark.net


Here's a closer pic.

I don't know if it is real, but an expert on my local news site commented that the plug is well visible in the barrel.
 
2014-02-28 12:12:34 PM  
I'm still amazed at how the internet has changed coverage of a developing conflict. To read up-to-the-minute updates is, in a perverse way, fascinating.

17:05:
All aircraft movements at Sevastopol's Belbek airfield are stopped after unidentified individuals seized the runway, a military source tells the Interfax-Ukraine news agency (BBC Monitoring).


The British are also evacuating their citizens from Crimea...
 
2014-02-28 12:13:17 PM  
"Blank Firing Adapter" is the proper name I think.
 
2014-02-28 12:15:51 PM  

vygramul: dukeblue219: This is from the BBC's live updates feed (time in GMT, so 11:03 EST):

16:03:
Russian planes are landing in Crimea and a column of armoured personnel carriers is approaching Simferopol, Ukrainska Pravda website is reporting (BBC Monitoring)

I don't automatically believe this. News outfits have enormous pressure to report rumors and be first.



Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine
 
2014-02-28 12:16:36 PM  

dukeblue219: I'm still amazed at how the internet has changed coverage of a developing conflict. To read up-to-the-minute updates is, in a perverse way, fascinating.


To elaborate, I grew up with cable news coverage like we saw in Desert Storm -- the reporter perched on a hotel roof showing live video of AAA fire and explosions in the distance. It was a step up from news feel footage of WWII and Vietnam, but still distanced from the events actually happening and described by a third party. It's a whole different ballgame to see the live twitter updates and pictures from Iran, Syria, Ukraine, etc, especially those from ordinary people on the ground.
 
2014-02-28 12:20:56 PM  

traylor: I don't know if it is real, but an expert on my local news site commented that the plug is well visible in the barrel.


Because magic barrel plugs that prevent rifles from firing anything but blanks just have to be real.

/I'm an expert in UFOs, and that is no streetlight
 
2014-02-28 12:21:46 PM  

traylor: nullptr: No that is just the regular muzzle device/brake.


[img.fark.net image 755x794]

Here's a closer pic.

I don't know if it is real, but an expert on my local news site commented that the plug is well visible in the barrel.


Hmm... doesn't look quite right. Here is the AK-74m blank adapter:

img.fark.net

The thing on the muzzle that you pointed out is a non-blued (in the white) Muzzle Brake like this:

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Example on muzzle:

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com


Example in the white:

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2014-02-28 12:25:09 PM  

Tatterdemalian: traylor: I don't know if it is real, but an expert on my local news site commented that the plug is well visible in the barrel.

Because magic barrel plugs that prevent rifles from firing anything but blanks just have to be real.

/I'm an expert in UFOs, and that is no streetlight


Most of Russia's army are virtually useless 1-year conscripts, and most of their good troops aren't normally anywhere near Ukraine. It wouldn't surprise me if they deployed exercising conscripts to provide presence.
 
2014-02-28 12:29:31 PM  
Found a good up-to-date live feed about all the news coming out:  http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi
 
2014-02-28 12:51:24 PM  

washington-babylon: Hmm... doesn't look quite right. Here is the AK-74m blank adapter:


Indeed, it looks like a standard in-the-white muzzle break was mistaken for a blank adapter. Thank you for the images.

And sorry for the confusion, I just repeated what I read elsewhere.
 
2014-02-28 01:05:14 PM  

traylor: washington-babylon: Hmm... doesn't look quite right. Here is the AK-74m blank adapter:

Indeed, it looks like a standard in-the-white muzzle break was mistaken for a blank adapter. Thank you for the images.

And sorry for the confusion, I just repeated what I read elsewhere.


No confusion, just figured I would post to avoid the ensuing debate. I was a bit surprised that anyone besides dittybopper was familiar with the term "In the white", but I guess since this is fark... Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event. A major destabilization of Asia is something we can't afford, so we will continue to throw strongly worded letters at Putin and sit on our thumbs.
 
2014-02-28 01:47:02 PM  

lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296


Putin.  No. Not f*cking yours. Stop interfering. Holy shiat, I don't know why the internet is so obsessed with this guy, but he needs to get the f*ck out.
 
2014-02-28 02:07:54 PM  

dittybopper: Medic Zero: mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.

+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.

Well, we say "the Universe" not "Universe", and we say "the Urals" not "Urals", so it would seem that prefixing "the" to the beginning of proper place names that start with a "you" sound is standard in English, but then we don't do it for "Uganda" or "Uruguay", so perhaps not.

Maybe we can just say that English is inconsistent on the matter, and leave it at that.


English is inconsistent on the matter somewhat, but mountain ranges in English have "the" as a standard rule, hence The Urals. Rivers, also. "The Ukraine" in English is simply a translated Russian practice. Do I care that much? No, I was just explaining why to the original guy who said the Ukraine and then corrected it to simple Ukraine.
 
2014-02-28 02:52:31 PM  
Supposedly 2000 Russian troops armed have invaded Crimea
 
2014-02-28 03:37:51 PM  
F*CK.

I hate it when my job gets interesting like this.

Where's the guy from the thread yesterday telling me that Ukraine was united and this would never happen?

i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2014-02-28 03:54:10 PM  

washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.


No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?
 
2014-02-28 03:57:26 PM  

T-Servo: F*CK.

I hate it when my job gets interesting like this.

Where's the guy from the thread yesterday telling me that Ukraine was united and this would never happen?

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]


He was either talking out of his ass, or he's a Russia expert and thinks that makes him a Ukraine expert. In my experience, either could be true.

/Few people have the capacity to be condescending pricks and profoundly wrong like Russia experts talking about what non-Russians think.
 
2014-02-28 04:04:05 PM  
The Russian population within Crimea is expressing itself quite effectively and with a clearer and more unified voice within this Interregnum than the fractionalized parties forming in the Ukraine in general.  Add to that mix the strategical importance of the region, the presence of Russian troops and tacit approval ingrained within what was once an integral economic region of Russia it is hardly surprising to see flags on the streets.  It is positive to hear overtures from all the major regional interests to stay out of the internal politics, though I do fear there are some hurtles ahead I am cautiously optimistic that the Ukraine will find their way forward unified.   For the moment, this appears to be the pivot point this whole region's future will turn upon.
 
2014-02-28 04:11:34 PM  

vygramul: Few people have the capacity to be condescending pricks and profoundly wrong like Russia experts talking about what non-Russians think.


Yeah, pretty much.
 
2014-02-28 04:32:45 PM  

cynicalminion: ransack.: Rev.Killjoy: Russian missle boat now reportedly blocking entrance to balaclava bay

[www.bestmastersprograms.org image 500x340]

[img.fark.net image 500x318]

i just wanted to be the one with the plan for once...
[img.fark.net image 500x241]


Thanks for the pictures of the cupcakes.  Cool idea.  Just made a batch of them for my niece's birthday.  They look really good.
 
2014-02-28 04:52:15 PM  
Just wondering... Isn't there an international treaty that says that all troops must wear identifiable insignia at all times?
 
2014-02-28 05:00:25 PM  
Where's a Ukrainian John McClane when you need one?

Ип Ги ура, Россия-матушка
 
2014-02-28 05:23:34 PM  

vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?


Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.
 
2014-02-28 05:36:55 PM  

washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.


Ooh. 8000 troops. 600 armored units. Well, lord knows how the US could POSSIBLY deal with that just with in-theater assets. I mean, how on EARTH would the Japanese survive if there are only 50,000 US military personnel in Japan?

And the South Koreans don't need our help to stop the North.
 
2014-02-28 05:38:48 PM  

washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.


And it's a million-man swim because they need way way way more than they can transport. They would need a quarter million, but million-man is alliterative and a call back to the million-man march, which didn't have a million men either.
 
2014-02-28 06:28:44 PM  

traylor: Just wondering... Isn't there an international treaty that says that all troops must wear identifiable insignia at all times?


Yes, the Hague Conventions. But they've only been around for 100 years or so.

Remember in the first Red Dawn, the Russkies invaded using airborne troops on board commercial airliners. We KNOW they don't play by the rules.

/wolverines
 
2014-02-28 06:31:32 PM  

vygramul: washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.

Ooh. 8000 troops. 600 armored units. Well, lord knows how the US could POSSIBLY deal with that just with in-theater assets. I mean, how on EARTH would the Japanese survive if there are only 50,000 US military personnel in Japan?

And the South Koreans don't need our help to stop the North.


Don't forget the carrier units we have in place in the area, and the LRB's that be called in force.

/suggesting Russia, China, and NK would move in unison in this day and age is simply silly.
 
2014-02-28 06:33:03 PM  

T-Servo: traylor: Just wondering... Isn't there an international treaty that says that all troops must wear identifiable insignia at all times?

Yes, the Hague Conventions. But they've only been around for 100 years or so.

Remember in the first Red Dawn, the Russkies invaded using airborne troops on board commercial airliners. We KNOW they don't play by the rules.

/wolverines


If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.
 
2014-02-28 06:43:00 PM  

chuggernaught: vygramul: washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.

Ooh. 8000 troops. 600 armored units. Well, lord knows how the US could POSSIBLY deal with that just with in-theater assets. I mean, how on EARTH would the Japanese survive if there are only 50,000 US military personnel in Japan?

And the South Koreans don't need our help to stop the North.

Don't forget the carrier units we have in place in the area, and the LRB's that be called in force.

/suggesting Russia, China, and NK would move in unison in this day and age is simply silly.


I wasn't playing all my aces.

/Subsurface guys tend to make life on an LST nasty, brutish, and oh so short.
 
2014-02-28 06:46:04 PM  

dukeblue219: The British are also evacuating their citizens from Crimea...


Too bad Top Gear's segment there was done last fall, otherwise they'd have a great challenge on their hands: which mid-engine $500,000 sports car is best for fleeing the Russian hordes?
 
2014-02-28 07:15:32 PM  

chuggernaught: vygramul: washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.

Ooh. 8000 troops. 600 armored units. Well, lord knows how the US could POSSIBLY deal with that just with in-theater assets. I mean, how on EARTH would the Japanese survive if there are only 50,000 US military personnel in Japan?

And the South Koreans don't need our help to stop the North.

Don't forget the carrier units we have in place in the area, and the LRB's that be called in force.

/suggesting Russia, China, and NK would move in unison in this day and age is simply silly.


If we honor our treaty obligations and get in a war with Russia, it really isn't. As it our forces stand right now, we would need to split between at least 3 Naval fronts in a destabilization event, and those troops quartered in Japan don't do shiat if you focus your initial landing on the Islands that they want anyway. Better yet, all China has to do to dampen our response is a conventional missile attack followed by drones to keep the main forces occupied. This is not only well within China's ability to do, it is also very difficult for the U.S. troops stationed on Japan to defend against. And if you think about their alliance with China, basically Russia has this one locked up strategically. We will have to give up on helping Ukraine militarily (or let Britain handle it), or risk Russia honoring their obligations to assist China with their assault. And Yes, Chuggernaught, Submarine forces do have that affect on LST's but China is decently equipped to handle protecting a small invasion force against submarine threats. The gravest mistake you can make in a situation like this is underestimating the opposing forces (like forgetting Russia's aid) and overestimating how many trained boots we can put on the ground in short order.
 
2014-02-28 08:45:05 PM  

traylor: nullptr: No that is just the regular muzzle device/brake.


[img.fark.net image 755x794]

Here's a closer pic.

I don't know if it is real, but an expert on my local news site commented that the plug is well visible in the barrel.


No, that is a muzzle brake.  Which allows for more accurate shooting in rapid fire.  Your "expert" doesn't know jack shiat.
 
2014-02-28 08:59:09 PM  

cynicalminion: HotWingAgenda: cynicalminion: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071877/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"there is a uniform, there must have been a man in it..."

cheers to anthony perkins
lauren bacall
wendy hiller
albert finney
sean connery
michael york
john gielgud
ingrid bergman
jaqueline bissette
vanessa redgrave
martin balsam
richard widmark

Holy shiat. Thanks to you, I just learned that Lauren Bacall is not only still alive, but still acting.

do you know how to whistle?


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-28 09:37:35 PM  

washington-babylon: If we honor our treaty obligations and get in a war with Russia, it really isn't. As it our forces stand right now, we would need to split between at least 3 Naval fronts in a destabilization event, and those troops quartered in Japan don't do shiat if you focus your initial landing on the Islands that they want anyway. Better yet, all China has to do to dampen our response is a conventional missile attack followed by drones to keep the main forces occupied. This is not only well within China's ability to do, it is also very difficult for the U.S. troops stationed on Japan to defend against. And if you think about their alliance with China, basically Russia has this one locked up strategically. We will have to give up on helping Ukraine militarily (or let Britain handle it), or risk Russia honoring their obligations to assist China with their assault. And Yes, Chuggernaught, Submarine forces do have that affect on LST's but China is decently equipped to handle protecting a small invasion force against submarine threats. The gravest mistake you can make in a situation like this is underestimating the opposing forces (like forgetting Russia's aid) and overestimating how many trained boots we can put on the ground in short order.


OK, so only China has missiles and drones. Our troops are vulnerable to them, but not the other way around. I've heard of asymmetric warfare, but I don't think this is what was in mind.
 
2014-02-28 10:40:17 PM  
So then Russia should offer to buy Crimea from the Ukraine, that needs they money to fend off years of debt bondage to the IMF.

Russia is no longer the global enemy of the USA: that function has been bought by China. Russia should be cultivated as an ally against China or at least a benevolent neutral, as should India, Japan, the Philippines and Iran.

China must be destroyed.
 
2014-03-01 12:07:44 AM  

cynicalminion: Kittypie070: cynicalminion: Kittypie070: well shiat

"please madame, if you must go woof-woof, go woof-woof not to windward but to leeward, help her pierre..."

Well if it's that kinda party I may as well take a steaming dump in Pooty's bowl of taters.


i was not aware i was keeping my hands ON miss debonham, but if you think the princess dragomirov's puppies don't need their NEW potatoes while she has her POACHED sole (her soul's already jerky, don't try it) then we'll all be stuck listening to the farking good ship lollipop again. CURSE YOU SHIRLEY TEMPLE HARLOT!


wat
 
2014-03-01 12:59:27 AM  
Does this mean James Bond movies will be exciting again?
 
2014-03-01 02:57:45 AM  

Tatterdemalian: yet another example of how the left can't comprehend the right.


I'm more of a centrist, but what you say is truer than you know.  I can't comprehend the popularity, thinking, or morality of any of these people:

Sarah Palin
Michelle Bachman
Ralph Reed
Mike Huckabee
Rick Santorum
Pat Robertson
Rick Perry
Ann Coulter
Glen Beck
Rush Limbaugh

/You not only let them into the party, you made them your candidates-of-choice and spokespersons.
 
2014-03-01 02:58:23 AM  

AngryDragon: brimed03: AngryDragon: brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.

Why? Because I mirrored back the same politiderp that Obama haters regularly spew? Where's your indignation when that stuff gets posted?

Actually I was addressing both of you.


Oh.

Well, that's fair.
 
2014-03-01 03:00:17 AM  
TeddyRooseveltsMustache:

GOOD LORD.

That's the manliest thing I've ever seen!  I'm referring, of course, to your Fark handle.
 
2014-03-01 03:35:14 AM  
yet another example of how the left can't comprehend the right.

Richard Mourdock (R-IN): "I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen." - October 2012

Todd Akin (R-MO): "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways of shutting that whole thing down" - mid 2012 Senate Campaign


YUP
 
2014-03-01 03:39:05 AM  
goddammit I got troll hooked yet again

Guys, don't let my tomfoolery 'jack the thread, I was only trying to point up crap about COMPREHENSION.

/sorry
 
2014-03-01 03:42:30 AM  

washington-babylon: vygramul: washington-babylon: Anyway, I don't believe the U.S. will get involved, as China will probably take that to mean that they can move on Japan relatively unhindered, and Best Korea would also take the chance to push south in that event.

No.

First of all, China would be engaging in the million-man swim. It's not clear they could do anything against Taiwan, much less Japan.

Second, North Korea is lucky the South doesn't roll North. Ain't no way they're rolling South.

Third, if the US can't handle two MTWs on the budget we have, why the fark bother?

Hmm, let's see here... China's PLAN has 3 amphibious transport docks  (each capable of carrying between 500-800 troops), 26 LST's (each can carry about 217 troops and twenty-two 25 ton tanks), Add to this the plethora of other vessels (including auxiliary troop transports) and I would say they could land a decent force (Around 8000 troops to start with including 600+ armored units)  long enough to secure an airfield to use for their invasion, so your assertion that they would be engaging in a million man swim is absurd to the nth degree. As for the Norks, they won't move on their own (nobody suggested that) but you can damn well be sure that they would move if China attacked Japan.


That's nice and all, but it'll never make it to Japan. Even ignoring what assets the US has there, the JMSDF is the third largest navy in the world. I think they'll be okay.
 
2014-03-01 04:31:55 AM  
Putin's not as crazy as Saddam, but when I read they're blocking the exits, I can't help but think "And attempted chemical solution in 3...2...1..."
 
2014-03-01 07:46:30 AM  

KellyX: Found a good up-to-date live feed about all the news coming out:  http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi


OK, news is coming out now.
 
2014-03-01 03:55:29 PM  

brimed03: TeddyRooseveltsMustache:

GOOD LORD.

That's the manliest thing I've ever seen!  I'm referring, of course, to your Fark handle.


Hahahahaha, thanks. People thought it was pretty awesome when I first made this account too.
 
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