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(BBC)   Crimea river   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 266
    More: News, Crimean, Russians, Ukraine, combat readiness, territorial integrity, Russian Navy, President Vladimir Putin, Secretary of State John Kerry  
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15584 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2014 at 2:48 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Esn
2014-02-28 07:53:22 AM  

vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.


To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they are doing very well (not that this is all their fault, not by a long shot).

Again, just because you are unaware of your leaders' strategy, doesn't mean that it's not their strategy.

Did the Western media mention the phoned threats that were made to opposition lawmakers? Or the opposition leader's house that was blown up? Or the police officers who were killed by "peaceful protesters" before those police finally fired back? (I wonder how the American police would've reacted if a crowd began to kill some of them?) Or the very strong neo-Nazi presence in the new security forces? Or that Yanukovich (the imbecile) had ALREADY signed a surrender agreement, but the armed crowd (which is not really controlled by the "official" political leaders) reneged on the agreement? They did not, because those sorts of things ruin their story.
 
2014-02-28 07:54:05 AM  

mikaloyd: The Ohio state University


I've just learned that we are a region.
 
2014-02-28 07:54:15 AM  

vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.


You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.
 
2014-02-28 07:58:57 AM  

NobleHam: But I don't think you understand the sort of backlash that would result from actually claiming the Crimean peninsula as Russian territory.


Or maybe we do, and you will end up being wrong about every assurance you give that Putin will be happy with just the territory he has now.

/you know who else kept being appeased by people making the same promises you're making?
 
2014-02-28 08:02:35 AM  
blogossus.files.wordpress.com
 
Esn
2014-02-28 08:02:41 AM  

vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.


I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.
 
2014-02-28 08:05:43 AM  
"/you know who else kept being appeased by people making the same promises you're making?"

and.... we're done.

www.cyburbia.org
 
2014-02-28 08:06:05 AM  
According to arms experts looking at the recent photos, the unidentified men at Simferopol Airport are carrying guns that are equipped with special plugs that are used at trainings, and their guns can fire only blanks.

WTF
 
2014-02-28 08:11:15 AM  

way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!


That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!
 
2014-02-28 08:12:32 AM  
Well, at least he waited until after the Olympics.   Would hated to have any sort of politics ruin the games.
 
2014-02-28 08:12:33 AM  

traylor: According to arms experts looking at the recent photos, the unidentified men at Simferopol Airport are carrying guns that are equipped with special plugs that are used at trainings, and their guns can fire only blanks.

WTF


Sochi Limited Editions!
 
2014-02-28 08:15:31 AM  

brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!


You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.
 
2014-02-28 08:22:03 AM  

Esn: All the Western news channels are now complaining about armed groups "taking over" parliament buildings and airports in Crimea - but were saying NOTHING back when the pro-Maidan armed groups were doing the same thing in Western Ukraine. Like always with the West, it's only a problem when the OTHER side uses those tactics.

I am reluctantly beginning to think now that the West's consistently slanted coverage and actions have nothing to do with human rights or ideology, but are motivated by ethnic hatred of Russians, pure and simple. I live here, so I really don't WANT to think that, but I really don't have many options.

There's a really good summary of all the background and history to this current conflict over here. There are also other good recent articles on that blog about the recent events.

Here's a particularly nice quote from the end of that article:

...as I recently wrote, the US and the EU have very different objective in the Ukraine: the EU wants a market for its goods and services, the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

And then, there is the "S factor": stupidity, plain and simple.  What often seems to be the result of some Machiavellian plan cooked up in a deep basement of the White House, the CIA or the Pentagon is often a mind-blowing example of the truly phenomenal stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of our leaders.  They believe themselves to be so powerful as to be free from the need to u ...


Oh, get a f*cking grip. You and everybody else biatching about the "western media". The western media as opposed to what? The Russian media, which has a long history of destroying any dissenting voices and routinely imprisons or murders journalists? The Chinese media, who will avoid at all costs showing a successful people's revolution in case some one at home suddenly thinks "hey, that looks like a good idea"? Al-Jazeera? Well, OK but are they saying anything different than anybody else?

Not to mention the fact that  there is a vast difference between an angry populace taking government buildings and a heavily armed military force not wearing any insignia (by the way, if these guys are Russian military then unmarked uniforms are whooping breach of the Geneva Convention) who are also refusing to disclose their objectives, orders or affiliation.

I lived in Moscow for two years. I have nothing against the Russian people. Putin however is a megalomaniacal thug, playing on Russian people's long-held and deep-rooted (and historically not without cause) fear of invasion and subjugation.
 
2014-02-28 08:23:50 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-28 08:30:25 AM  

Esn: vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.

To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they ar ...


There's a difference between predicting what Russia will eventually do and feeling any particular need to do about it. In addition, to say that proves we want to hurt them as much as not giving in on a Polish corridor is proof people wanted to hurt Germany.

And please, the media is in the business of what will make money, not what the truth is or what the government wants. Russians as poor, innocent victims doesn't sell. And no non-Russian East of Danzig sure as heck buys it.
 
2014-02-28 08:31:26 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.


Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.
 
2014-02-28 08:31:27 AM  

brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!


If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect
 
2014-02-28 08:33:45 AM  

Esn: vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.

I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.


The Holodomor was intentional. The proof is in the process in other Soviet Republics, including the Russian SSR. It was a genocide, clear to anyone who actually looks at the actions of the Russian government.
 
2014-02-28 08:37:11 AM  

jchuffyman: Ilmarinen: jchuffyman: The Netherlands has made the "the" an official part of its name (also strange that they have one the few cities in the world with an article in its name as well).

Funnily enough, there's no definite article in the Dutch name (Nederland). And France has a large number of places with names like La Rochelle, Le Havre, Les Ulis, and Le Mans.

As for Russia and (the) Ukraine, I say let the Scandinavians bring some order like in the old days.

I know that, but at some point they decided that the official English name of their country would include it. Why? I don't know



The older Dutch, French (les Pays-Bas), and German (die Niederlande) names include it as well. The reason for that is that until 1795 it wasn't a single country, but a confederation of 7 sovereign provinces (hence the plural).
 
2014-02-28 08:37:36 AM  
i'm getting a bayonet for my horse. i'll mount it on his nose. it's the only way I can defend my binder full of women.
 
2014-02-28 08:38:47 AM  

mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.


+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.
 
2014-02-28 08:39:02 AM  

Esn: vygramul: rev. dave: Crimea likes being in wars.  Russia must think it is now strong enough to take on the west.

Why would it need to think that, since it has done all kinds of things to Ukraine that are far, far worse than this over the last hundred years, sometimes barely rating a complaint, much less any kind military threat from the West.

I assume you're talking about the terrible tragedy of the Holodomor, the reality of which is rather more complex than often portrayed (good article about the different views on it here). In short: Russians have no reason to do horrible things to Ukrainians, because many Russians consider them to be the same people (isn't this part of what underlies the current conflict?). But there WERE centuries-long conflicts against the Catholic-aligned West of what is currently Ukraine (formerly Poland and crusader territory). Also, the early Soviet leadership had rather repressive attitudes against the rural agricultural population, and instituted policies which caused a humanitarian catastrophe not only in Ukraine, but in parts of Russia adjacent to it as well.


"Holodomor" sounds like the greeting you'd get at the Mordor Wal-Mart from servant-cum-greeter Hodor.

/huh huh, "cum"
//Anyone else think Martin's trying to subtly compare himself to Tolkein with the whole G.R.R./T.R.R. thing?
 
2014-02-28 08:44:15 AM  

Medic Zero: mikaloyd: jchuffyman: Boojum2k: Boojum2k: If the Ukraine can get its shiat together fast enough, they can petition for EU or even NATO membership. Russia would get noisy about it, but they'd be in a bind then

Ukraine, I mean, not "the" Ukraine.

That has always bugged me. The extra "the" that always used to be used with Ukraine is a way to denote that it is a region and not a country, like is done in Russian. When using prepositions of place in Russian, "v" translates to in, and "na" translates to on. So for every country in the world, you use v...except for Ukraine. Since the origins of the word Ukraine come from the slavic word for "edge", you are essentially saying that you are on the edge (of Russia). So the continued use of "the" with Ukraine in English just plays into the Russian mentality that it is part of Russia.

Sounds better as the Ukraine though. The Yukon does too.

+1

Also, almost no one is aware of the above nuance either.


It certainly fits into sentences better that way.
 
2014-02-28 08:48:03 AM  

AngryDragon: brimed03: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

You may want to consider upping your dosage.  Just a suggestion.


Why? Because I mirrored back the same politiderp that Obama haters regularly spew? Where's your indignation when that stuff gets posted?
 
2014-02-28 08:49:07 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Can't send an aircraft carrier through the Dardanelles by treaty.

Some actual action by the west to back up its words would be good, though it is possible that this entire thing is a local power grab by the pro-Russian politicians in the Crimea. Too big an action would escalate the crisis unnecessarily.
 
2014-02-28 08:51:59 AM  

Esn: vygramul: Esn: the US wants to hurt Russia as much as possible.  We have all seen the total lack of effectiveness of the EU bureaucrats and their naive attempts at finding a negotiated solution.  The US foreign policy goal has the advantage of being simple yet clear: f*ck Russia and f*ck the EU!  From the US point of view, the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for Uncle Sam.  At the very least, this hurts Russia, at the very best, it gives the US a wonderful pretext to "protect" Europe from the "resurgent Russian bear" while standing up for civilization, democracy and progress.  A Neocon's wet dream...

Well, that's predictably preposterous. I have more reason than most Americans to detest the Russians and my general attitude is that it's unnecessary to hurt them these days. They're perfectly capable of doing it themselves. But I don't like when they (for the n+1th time) hurt their neighbors, which they've been doing since before there even was a United States of America.

To quote from the analysis in this article...

Hillary Clinton said 2 years ago:
"There is a move to re-Sovietise the region," (...) "It's not going to be called that. It's going to be called a customs union, it will be called Eurasian Union and all of that,"   (...) "But let's make no mistake about it. We know what the goal is and we are trying to figure out effective ways to slow down or prevent it."

You also have to look at the writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski, whose paradigm is very popular among a major branch of US foreign policy thinkers:
Without Ukraine Russia ceases to be empire, while with Ukraine - bought off first and subdued afterwards, it automatically turns into empire...According to him, the new world order under the hegemony of the United States is created against Russia and on the fragments of Russia. Ukraine is the Western outpost to prevent the recreation of the Soviet Union.

Under this theory, all the U.S. has to do to win is create chaos in Ukraine. Which they are doing very well (not that this is all their fault, not by a long shot).

Again, just because you are unaware of your leaders' strategy, doesn't mean that it's not their strategy.

Did the Western media mention the phoned threats that were made to opposition lawmakers? Or the opposition leader's house that was blown up? Or the police officers who were killed by "peaceful protesters" before those police finally fired back? (I wonder how the American police would've reacted if a crowd began to kill some of them?) Or the very strong neo-Nazi presence in the new security forces? Or that Yanukovich (the imbecile) had ALREADY signed a surrender agreement, but the armed crowd (which is not really controlled by the "official" political leaders) reneged on the agreement? They did not, because those sorts of things ruin their story.


Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.
 
2014-02-28 08:55:19 AM  

vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.


No we won't. We reset our relations with Russia, don't you remember? The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.

It's just too bad that Hilldog isn't still in the saddle. When asked questions about Ukraine she could reply with a quick, "What difference does it make?" and every one will forget about it.
 
2014-02-28 08:56:59 AM  

vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.


If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.


Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.
 
2014-02-28 09:03:31 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Sure you want to refer to "Ronnie" and "crazy" in the same post? Me, I just wouldn't want to risk giving people the reminder.

It's a much different world than the simple black hat/white hat days painted in the Reagan era. Mittens would not have realized that any better than Dubya.

And Putin would have shrugged at your carrier; neither Mittens nor Dubya would have pulled the trigger, and he knows it. A threat is not a threat if you're not willing to follow through on it. In fact, it just makes you look weaker. Obama knows all these things.

/you know how they say the Chinese see everything as a nail to be hammered down? Republicans see everything as a problem to bomb. Which is how we go from mujahideen killing Russians in Afghanistan to Taliban killing Americans in Afghanistan.
 
2014-02-28 09:06:38 AM  
Have something to do with the "ex" president being in Russia? Ensuring he can return? Are those troops really Russian? I read about these flags, but I don't see them.
 
2014-02-28 09:06:40 AM  
I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.
 
2014-02-28 09:10:32 AM  

Ishkur: He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.


You know who has no fingers, no thumbs, no hands, no arms and a string in his teeth but can still manage to say "I'm gonna farking shoot your ass you insensitive prick"?

This guy!

arthurkade.com
 
2014-02-28 09:10:57 AM  

Tatterdemalian: brimed03: That's right, gorram it! If Good Ole Dubya (GOD-R) was still in charge, our boys would already be in there calling surgical strike packaGGGEEZZZZZ-- sorry, I allus orgasm at that phrase-- just like those other countries he liberated before the people living there even asked for it. It'd all be over before it started. Mission Accomplished Baby!

If Mittens were in charge, he wouldn't have to make any military strikes at all. Just station a carrier in the Black Sea.

/see, there's a difference between a President who was crazy enough to insist all along in spite of all the mockery that Putin was a danger, and a President who tried to pretend a "reset button" would fix everything
//the former would have been a credible threat just speaking softly, the latter can be safely ignored no matter how loud he gets
///call it the "Ronnie Ray-Gun" effect


Also: there's a difference between a president inept enough to publicly call Putin "a danger" and a President who recognizes it privately but doesn't close off half his options for dealing with the crazy.

Pandering for votes versus being Presidential (aka thinking ahead).
 
2014-02-28 09:14:14 AM  

p4p3rm4t3: Have something to do with the "ex" president being in Russia? Ensuring he can return? Are those troops really Russian? I read about these flags, but I don't see them.


Indeed SOMETHINNGS FARKY RICKY

LINK
 
2014-02-28 09:15:12 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.

If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.


Clearly, you've never been around my dog when we're trying to put her on a new brand of kibble.
 
2014-02-28 09:17:54 AM  
This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.
 
Esn
2014-02-28 09:18:29 AM  

MinkeyMan: Oh, get a f*cking grip. You and everybody else biatching about the "western media". The western media as opposed to what? The Russian media, which has a long history of destroying any dissenting voices and routinely imprisons or murders journalists? The Chinese media, who will avoid at all costs showing a successful people's revolution in case some one at home suddenly thinks "hey, that looks like a good idea"? Al-Jazeera? Well, OK but are they saying anything different than anybody else?


All of those are good choices. You will NOT FIND a media source that is neutral about everything - EVERY MEDIA SOURCE is compromised - the trick is understanding what subjects they are compromised on.  If you live in the West:

The mainstream Western news channels are, as Glenn Greenwald said, "courtiers to power". They represent "the path of least resistance": good for understanding the official state, military and financial elites' positions about what you should think. They will be neutral about subjects that those elites have no interest in. They represent different internal political factions, but there are nevertheless many things that none of them will question, and people (especially academics) that they will not bring on.

RT is the channel for Western dissidents - it's like what Voice of America was to the Soviet Union. It gives lots of airtime to Western Solzhenitsyns (the restless intelligentsia) with the aim of destabilizing the present Western power structure. RT doesn't care if those dissidents' ideology is not Putin-friendly as long as they talk about the West and not Russia. (RT's coverage about Russia and allied states is friendly and tends to omit embarrassing details. It also mentions positive details that the Western stations don't)

Al Jazeera's blind spot has been demonstrated by the crises in Syria and Egypt: any group ideologically tied to the Muslim Brotherhood or its allies (including Islamist militant groups, and obviously Qatar) will be treated kindly, while its enemies will be treated poorly. On other topics, Al Jazeera is a serious and sane news station, whose main worth lies in a greater breadth of covered topics, compared to the U.S. media, which is mostly preoccupied with things that don't matter (celebrities, human interest stories, political kabuki theatre).

CCTV News is Chinese. They're not revolution-stirring like RT; they try to be a general-purpose international news station but are not quite as good as Al Jazeera. They have a different blind spot: China instead of Islamists. They also sometimes show quite interesting China-centric perspectives (I particularly remember the live physics class from the Chinese space station...).
 
2014-02-28 09:18:41 AM  

way south: vygramul: way south: vygramul: way south: Launch Code: President Putin better watch his step. barry isn't afraid to draw a red line and if that line is crossed there'll be another red line right behind it.

Just you watch, he's going to keep crossing lines till that countries cut in half.
Then we get serious and start sending memos.

/angry, angry, memos!

We'll send a couple of our newest destroyers into the Black Sea. Putin will tow out one of their obsolete missile cruisers and then announce a surprise diplomatic coup including a complete withdrawal of all Russian militia units from the Crimea, handing firm control to Ukrainians, and people will announce that Obama "lost" and Putin "won" because he didn't get to have a war.

You know that won't happen.
Russia will flood half the nation with troops before the EU and Ukrain can sort out the financial details.
No ones going to bother forcing them out since we take half and they take half. Everyone outside of the country win's and the Russians get to string up some fresh barbed wire.

We've seen how this plays out.

Of course that won't happen. No way the West gets involved.

If the Russians get away with a traditional crackdown it'll look very bad on the EU (and by extension, the US). SoI'm not certain we'll let to go unnoticed.
...But I am certain that whatever response comes will be softer than a dogs fart, and Putin knows that.

Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he stations a few troops along a new border that happens to secure ports and other resources.
It avoids a civil war and no one will challenge his claim.


I've been meaning to ask ITT: didn't I just read-- on a Fark link I believe-- that the Russians had suddenly massed troops on their western (i.e., Ukraine) border "for training exercises?"
 
2014-02-28 09:18:42 AM  

lumiere: From Twitter:
Moscow Interfax admits forces occupying Sebastopol airport are Russian military deployed "to prevent the arrival of some militants."

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/439312010845495296


Only some militants?  Not all the militants?
 
2014-02-28 09:21:14 AM  

zimbomba63: I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.


You know how I know you're *not* talking about me?

Because I didn't pass the exam.
 
2014-02-28 09:22:35 AM  

Prevailing Wind: Ishkur: He totally waited until the Olympics was over to do this, too.

That's totally hilarious.

You know who has no fingers, no thumbs, no hands, no arms and a string in his teeth but can still manage to say "I'm gonna farking shoot your ass you insensitive prick"?

This guy!


Farking. Amazing.

That dude rocks.
 
2014-02-28 09:25:02 AM  

SlothB77: This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.


You know it is only the Army being reduced to pre-ww2 levels?  And pre-ww2 the Army included the Air Force?  And if you combine the Army and the Air Force proposed troop strengths they would still far exceed pre-ww2 Army troop strength?  And the Navy and USMC are both far larger than their pre-ww2 sizes?  Right?
 
Esn
2014-02-28 09:30:43 AM  

danzak: Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.


Here's a source.
Here's a recent video.
Here's a Western Ukrainian priest calling for a campaign of assassination and terror. (yes, this was a while ago - but many of the armed people on the streets are directly inspired by this ideology)

And I was mistaken, the house (belonging to the Communist Party leader) was not blown up; it was destroyed by fire.
 
2014-02-28 09:31:32 AM  

brimed03: zimbomba63: I love these threads, because we always find out who has been awarded a GED in geopolitics.

You know how I know you're *not* talking about me?

Because I didn't pass the exam.


I'm studying for my Geopolitics Certification through my penitentiary courses.
 
2014-02-28 09:38:34 AM  

jaybeezey: The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.


What an odd slur.
 
2014-02-28 09:44:01 AM  

SlothB77: This is the ideal time for Neville Obama to reduce our military to pre ww2 levels.




Because what we clearly need at this time is to become entangled in a civil war half way around the world. That has worked well for us in the last 13 years.
 
2014-02-28 09:45:24 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: jaybeezey: The very French looking John Kerry will have this all settled by lunch on Monday.

What an odd slur.


Yeah, we may be soap-dodging dairy-products eating cowards but we look 10 times better than this guy.

/off to read the actual thread now.
 
2014-02-28 09:47:50 AM  

Esn: danzak: Jeezus, you pulling that out of your ass? Did you follow events starting in November? And, there's a real obsession with neo nazis on fark, what's with that? Turn off Interfax and watch some real news, or go to YouTube and experience it without commentary.

Here's a source.
Here's a recent video.
Here's a Western Ukrainian priest calling for a campaign of assassination and terror. (yes, this was a while ago - but many of the armed people on the streets are directly inspired by this ideology)

And I was mistaken, the house (belonging to the Communist Party leader) was not blown up; it was destroyed by fire.


RT is a Russian news source, used to called Russia Today. Not exactly a neutral source
The video of the priest is from 2010, not sure what that has to do with your points
The guy telling biatch to shut up is again, from RT.  Still, one pissed off guy telling someone who has been part of of the problem to shut up does not back up your claims

what about the protesters shooting at police?
Don't pick and choose and try not using Russian media sources
 
2014-02-28 10:05:31 AM  
Anyone else notice none of the guns are loaded?

pixel.nymag.com
Why are the police not rounding them up.  No national insignia,  no reason they cannot be armed terrorists and the police are acting in public interest.

Smells fishy to me....
 
2014-02-28 10:06:09 AM  

brimed03: Sure you want to refer to "Ronnie" and "crazy" in the same post? Me, I just wouldn't want to risk giving people the reminder.


Well, that's because you're a humorless moron who can't understand how anybody could call their leaders "crazy" and expect to get away with it unpunished. Thanks for providing yet another example of how the left can't comprehend the right.

/you may be right
//we may be crazy
///but it just might be a lunatic we're looking for
 
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