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(UPI)   Scientists demonstrate that a tree branch can be an effective water purifier, filtering out 99% of bacteria   (upi.com) divider line 34
    More: Sappy, bacteria, water purification, MIT, filtration, trunk, thin-slicing, water pollutions, water filters  
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2955 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Feb 2014 at 8:11 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-27 08:15:27 PM
Sappy...  (golf clap)
 
2014-02-27 08:15:58 PM
fine use of the sappy tag subby.

One question, how does one use this branch?  or are we talking a slice of a branch? and how thick does it need to be? and this what ever, however chunk of pine only does a gallon a day?!?
 
2014-02-27 08:17:44 PM
That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?
 
2014-02-27 08:19:40 PM

mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?


And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.
 
2014-02-27 08:30:25 PM

FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.


Hey, what if you make charcoal out of the slice of wood first?
 
2014-02-27 08:33:33 PM

FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.


Better than nothing. A LOT better, actually.
 
2014-02-27 08:38:40 PM
I wonder how it does with vodak.

I know the worst vodak will be smooth as a baby's ass after filtering 5 times with a brita. Doesn't taste like much but it's smooth.

/it's a good party trick.
 
2014-02-27 08:46:24 PM

doglover: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

Better than nothing. A LOT better, actually.


Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes? Was it all wine or beer?
 
2014-02-27 08:47:11 PM
A couple of drops of ordinary household bleach will purify a litre of water in a few minutes. It can't be that hard or that expensive to get supplies of bleach to third world countries. A lot better than chopping down hundreds of trees.
 
2014-02-27 08:57:35 PM

KidneyStone: I wonder how it does with vodak.

I know the worst vodak will be smooth as a baby's ass after filtering 5 times with a brita. Doesn't taste like much but it's smooth.

/it's a good party trick.


You don't want to give a pine tree vodka. One minute you'll be singing Christmas carols and next thing you know it'll be tearing off its garland and shaking it's balls in your face.
 
2014-02-27 08:57:51 PM
FTA: Still other trees and plants out in the forest might work even better than the branch of pine tree...There could be much better plants out there that are suitable for this process.

Number 1... The Larch.
 
2014-02-27 09:10:00 PM

djkutch: doglover: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

Better than nothing. A LOT better, actually.

Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes? Was it all wine or beer?


Lots of parasites.

Also
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-27 09:31:03 PM

FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you? And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.


I don't see any technical details in the article (such as, the size of the pores), so ... so I assume you're just assuming based on the relative size of a common bacterium vs a virus vs a heavy metal molecule.
 
2014-02-27 09:37:01 PM

djkutch:

Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes? Was it all wine or beer?


How far 'before' do you want to go?

Yes, beer and wine, and then, people just drank the water ... some people got sick ... some people got better

And some people DIED.

// but then again, people died for a lot of reasons. Life expectancy wasn't exactly what it is in these days of modern medical technology.
 
2014-02-27 09:43:19 PM
 
2014-02-27 09:44:08 PM

lordargent: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you? And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

I don't see any technical details in the article (such as, the size of the pores), so ... so I assume you're just assuming based on the relative size of a common bacterium vs a virus vs a heavy metal molecule.


FTFA:
The sapwood was only able to filter out particles 70 nanometers and larger. That works fine for stopping bacteria, the vast majority of which are no smaller than 200 nanometers. Viruses, on the other hand, are much, much smaller, Karnik said, and would likely be able to bypass the wood filter.
 
2014-02-27 09:53:50 PM

djkutch: doglover: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

Better than nothing. A LOT better, actually.

Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes? Was it all wine or beer?


It's called an "immune" system for a reason.

It took us 1000s of years to discover germs not because small things are hard to see but because 99.9% of germs do nothing.
 
2014-02-27 10:02:54 PM
mcnitt.com

Now let me show you I can use this branch to make sure you never worry about tainted water again.
 
2014-02-27 10:08:07 PM

sno man: lordargent: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you? And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

I don't see any technical details in the article (such as, the size of the pores), so ... so I assume you're just assuming based on the relative size of a common bacterium vs a virus vs a heavy metal molecule.

FTFA:
The sapwood was only able to filter out particles 70 nanometers and larger. That works fine for stopping bacteria, the vast majority of which are no smaller than 200 nanometers. Viruses, on the other hand, are much, much smaller, Karnik said, and would likely be able to bypass the wood filter.


Ahh, I guess I just skipped over that part (I was looking for "nm" not the whole word spelled out).
 
2014-02-27 10:10:25 PM
It's the sapwood, so the part just below the bark layer.

And if you're lost in the woods, you're probably not going to be concerned with dissolved heavy metals like lead or chemicals like chlorine. It's the bacterial cysts like giardia that will get you.

I also don't think there's too much of an issue with virus loads in water, unless you're drinking from a stagnant pond downstream from a latrine.

This is an interesting survivalist trick, and probably has implications for low cost water filtering in poor rural countries, but isn't really intended to replace municipal water treatment.
 
2014-02-27 10:11:12 PM

lordargent: sno man: lordargent: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you? And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

I don't see any technical details in the article (such as, the size of the pores), so ... so I assume you're just assuming based on the relative size of a common bacterium vs a virus vs a heavy metal molecule.

FTFA:
The sapwood was only able to filter out particles 70 nanometers and larger. That works fine for stopping bacteria, the vast majority of which are no smaller than 200 nanometers. Viruses, on the other hand, are much, much smaller, Karnik said, and would likely be able to bypass the wood filter.

Ahh, I guess I just skipped over that part (I was looking for "nm" not the whole word spelled out).


It happens. I've done it.
 
2014-02-27 10:16:12 PM

Flint Ironstag: A couple of drops of ordinary household bleach will purify a litre of water in a few minutes. It can't be that hard or that expensive to get supplies of bleach to third world countries. A lot better than chopping down hundreds of trees.


They have a link to the real scholarly article.  The bacteria filtration was at leas 99.9%, only the smallest virii can go through the sample they used, and they admit they should look around for trees that can get the 20nm ones as well.

The sample of branch they used was only a few cm long.  A whole small branch could be used to filter all the water for dozens of people for about a week.  Branches grow back.  You don't even want to chop the tree down, the good filters are the smaller branches with no core wood in them, just sapwood.

Sending a lot of bleach all over the world isn't really sustainable.  Trees are sustainable.  If you were shipping dangerous chemicals around unsafe countries, what's the odds that someone would hijack the truck and ransom the contents?  Can't see anyone being able to hijack all of the trees...

And it's possible that you can use plant matter, that's another thing they want to investigate
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-02-27 10:18:34 PM

djkutch: Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes?


In addition to what was posted earlier in regard to your question - boiling water works.  I can't say for certain, but at least in Western cultures, boiling water for sterilization has not been in place for but a few centuries.  When the British took up their tea habit, the boiled water required for the tea lead to an increase in population.  I don't know if they put two and two together right away.
 
2014-02-27 10:28:27 PM

433: djkutch: Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes?

In addition to what was posted earlier in regard to your question - boiling water works.  I can't say for certain, but at least in Western cultures, boiling water for sterilization has not been in place for but a few centuries.  When the British took up their tea habit, the boiled water required for the tea lead to an increase in population.  I don't know if they put two and two together right away.


Same thing with the western migration in America.  The wagon trail settlers carried water but they mostly (even the kids) drank coffee.  Only the horses and oxen drank unboiled water.
 
2014-02-27 10:32:48 PM

djkutch: doglover: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you?

And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

Better than nothing. A LOT better, actually.

Serious question: How did humans drink water before purification processes? Was it all wine or beer?


Moving water is well oxygenated, which happens to kill a lot (but not all) of the really nasty stuff. As long as population was low, you could do all right by only drinking from moving water taken from upstream of your wee village and its livestock and outhouses.

I used to live in a town of 800 which took all its water from local creeks with no treatment at all. Nice, steep mountains and well-agitated water, with no one upstream. We never got "boil" advisories and I don't recall anyone getting sick from the water.

Beer becomes utterly necessary when you start putting hundreds of people in one place without those mountain streams, which is why it's only half a joke when they say beer is the foundation of civilisation.
 
2014-02-27 10:53:55 PM

sno man: lordargent: FormlessOne: mr_a: That is great, I think.

Can't the 1% of E.coli that it misses still kill you? And 100% of the virii. Never mind the dissolved elements, such as arsenic and lead, and chemicals that aren't touched at all.

I don't see any technical details in the article (such as, the size of the pores), so ... so I assume you're just assuming based on the relative size of a common bacterium vs a virus vs a heavy metal molecule.

FTFA:
The sapwood was only able to filter out particles 70 nanometers and larger. That works fine for stopping bacteria, the vast majority of which are no smaller than 200 nanometers. Viruses, on the other hand, are much, much smaller, Karnik said, and would likely be able to bypass the wood filter.


It's all averages.  Even a large-size pore will filter some percentage of the smaller elements out.  Also, pore size is usually given as an average, so it's expected that some bacteria would get through.

Still, this sounds like a natural filter system that just requires trees.  It opens up the idea of searching for alternative plants with smaller pores, or genetically engineering them.  That's pretty awesome.
 
2014-02-28 01:05:44 AM
barrelcactuscartoontap.jpg
 
2014-02-28 01:15:33 AM
So filter it through 2 branches and remove 198% of bacteria. Duh!
 
2014-02-28 01:53:30 AM
Squarewatermelon.jpg
 
2014-02-28 06:14:12 AM

sno man: fine use of the sappy tag subby.

One question, how does one use this branch?  or are we talking a slice of a branch? and how thick does it need to be? and this what ever, however chunk of pine only does a gallon a day?!?


www.plosone.org
 
2014-02-28 07:15:02 AM

Odoriferous Queef: sno man: fine use of the sappy tag subby.

One question, how does one use this branch?  or are we talking a slice of a branch? and how thick does it need to be? and this what ever, however chunk of pine only does a gallon a day?!?

[www.plosone.org image 850x729]


Thanks!
 
2014-02-28 12:03:14 PM
Hmmm, methinks there is some old book with a reference to a tree being used to make water drinkable...

I could be wrong
Ex 15:25

Scientist would never get an idea from some old book!
 
2014-02-28 12:05:58 PM
Just came in to join in the applause for the tag.

Although it loses a little cleverness in seeing that "sapwood" was already the suggestive name of the tree.
 
2014-02-28 12:19:47 PM
Someone needs to try this with a few other trees and see what works best. Also maybe there is one out there that would be any good at Desalination.
I need to know this because I watch too many of those damn survival shows and have become mildly obsessed about this sort of thing. Even though I have very little urge to go out into the woods.
 
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