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(Popular Science)   Structural engineers around the world tout the most advanced building material that is taking the construction industry by storm and will utterly remake city skylines ... wood   (popsci.com) divider line 16
    More: Strange, structural engineers, skylines, Shoreditch, waste minimisation, Luftwaffe, tallest skyscraper, storms, Burj Khalifa  
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7976 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Feb 2014 at 10:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-27 12:30:56 PM  
2 votes:

TheShavingofOccam123: inner ted: cgraves67: pheelix: cgraves67: Fun Fact: Tokyo was once built of wood. I wonder what happened to it?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x233]

No need to go further than Chicago to make your point.

I could also go with London 1666, but I thought a picture of an actual city burning would be more visceral.

cause we all know that steel & concrete building are impervious
[img.fark.net image 260x194]
/visceral enough?

We also know drywall doesn't make stairways survivable in extreme conditions. Which ends up dooming thousands of people to either burning to death or jumping.

That engineer sure saved a lot of money by using drywall instead of reinforced doodads. And it made his twin penises grow ever larger.


the point is that wood is getting a bad rap on this thread.  nothing is indestructible.  wood has been used widely & forever cause it works well & it will continue to work well.  building with wood is a great way to store carbon (unless that building burns down), it regrows relatively quickly & is less toxic than many synthetic alternatives. of course it won't be nor should it be used for everything, but seeing new uses for something that has been used for a long time is a neat thing.
2014-02-27 10:52:57 AM  
2 votes:

brimed03: Mose: A thick plank of wood will char on the outside, sealing the wood inside from damage. Metal, on the other hand, begins to melt. "Steel, when it burns, it's like spaghetti," says B.J. Yeh, the technical services director for APA-the Engineered Wood Association.

There's so much stupid in those sentences right there, I don't know where to begin.

I grant the guy's job is to shill for the industry.  But, bearing in mind that most of us don't know you, what credentials and expertise do you have over this guy?


BS mechanical engineering, MS fire protection engineering, 4 years as a full time firefighter, 8 years as a volunteer firefighter, 10 years professional fire protection engineering experience specializing in the performance of fire sprinklers.
2014-02-27 10:26:44 AM  
2 votes:
Fun Fact: Tokyo was once built of wood. I wonder what happened to it?
upload.wikimedia.org
2014-02-27 12:15:58 PM  
1 votes:

Mose: A thick plank of wood will char on the outside, sealing the wood inside from damage. Metal, on the other hand, begins to melt. "Steel, when it burns, it's like spaghetti," says B.J. Yeh, the technical services director for APA-the Engineered Wood Association.

There's so much stupid in those sentences right there, I don't know where to begin.


I think that BJ Yeh is referring to the structural properties of the materials as they burn.  I'm sure you already know this, but steel frame buildings need fire proofing sprayed all over the beams/columns so as to not transfer heat, and to limit the exposure of heat because high temperatures make them malleable, leading to the collapse. The burning CLT certainly wouldn't help conduct heat, etc.  and wouldn't lose its strength until the point of collapse.  The important questions are flame spread rate, smoke production properties, and how quickly something like this burns.

There is really very little technical data in this article, certainly not enough for you to decide that the claims are patently false.
2014-02-27 11:58:05 AM  
1 votes:

BigGrnEggGriller: I'm a real-life structural engineer, and wood "towers" would be stupid.


I think this might have good application for more low-to-mid rise construction, where there's a marginal cost between building with wood and being shorter and going with steel and getting a few extra stories. This may let developers add those extra stories more cheaply.

Not so concerned about the fire risk as typical city codes require massive amounts of sprinkling.

Also, like you said and as the pictures in TFA imply, you're going to be limited in your design options, as the building cannot be built with an open plan. This may be more suitable for apartments than office spaces.

I'm also curious about the glues that they're using. Given the general trend in making buildings more "tight", I'd expect a lot of VOCs to linger, causing health problems during offgassing.
2014-02-27 11:47:40 AM  
1 votes:
I'm a real-life structural engineer, and wood "towers" would be stupid.

Wood is great and all, but it's real "springy" when compared to concrete or steel.  So beams have to be deeper and columns bigger (and more closely spaced) than steel or concrete elements.  This means deeper floors and fatter columns, which increases floor-to-floor heights and lessens floor sq footage.
All this decreases economy.

Plus, I'd be a little skeptical about how much this baby's going to sway.  It's basically relying on plywood to keep it rigid.

Then there's the whole issue of building this thing.  How many construction companies are going to bid something that's really never been done before.  If they do bid on it, they'll crank up the contingency fee.

Additionally, I'd be concerned about vertical creep.  Wood tends to slowly deform under load, and with 30 stories or whatever constantly pushing down, the cladding is going to have to absorb several inches of vertical movement.

And the wood charring and protecting the "inside" of the wood is real, but has limits.  The guy in TFA is just spouting talking points.  The issue with steel and fire is that steel weakens at temps above about 800 deg. F.  If steel is designed tight, this can lead to big deflections, and other issues.  I think wood at 800 deg would just flash.
2014-02-27 11:32:45 AM  
1 votes:
I don't think it will replace steel, but as an adjunct it may be quite useful. But then wouldn't laminated bamboo lumber have almost all of the same benefits of the cross laminated timber and be far more sustainable?
2014-02-27 11:27:51 AM  
1 votes:
Termites.

/That is all
2014-02-27 11:27:43 AM  
1 votes:
This process sounds promising... I would be interested in seeing how a building constructed like this would stand up to a similar steel building in a Life After People kinda scenario.
2014-02-27 11:11:43 AM  
1 votes:
The logs in my fireplace char up on the outside, protecting the wood inside.
2014-02-27 10:45:43 AM  
1 votes:

cgraves67: Fun Fact: Tokyo was once built of wood. I wonder what happened to it?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x233]


static.lolyard.com

Hint: It ain't wood.
2014-02-27 10:39:24 AM  
1 votes:
Straw mixed with mud makes an excellent building material.
2014-02-27 10:32:09 AM  
1 votes:
CLT is real. Once you learn how to use it properly a whole new world opens up.  But you can't just grab it and go banging and nailing willy nilly.  You gotta plan, evaluate the terrain, inspect the ground up close and build a proper foundation before you go laying the CLT down.
2014-02-27 10:29:53 AM  
1 votes:

cgraves67: Fun Fact: Tokyo was once built of wood. I wonder what happened to it?
[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x233]


No need to go further than Chicago to make your point.
i2.cdn.turner.com
2014-02-27 10:29:24 AM  
1 votes:
Wood will never replace steel.  Carbon nanotubes will replace steel
2014-02-27 10:28:45 AM  
1 votes:
A thick plank of wood will char on the outside, sealing the wood inside from damage. Metal, on the other hand, begins to melt. "Steel, when it burns, it's like spaghetti," says B.J. Yeh, the technical services director for APA-the Engineered Wood Association.

There's so much stupid in those sentences right there, I don't know where to begin.
 
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