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(The Verge)   Elon Musk, not content at revolutionizing banking, space travel and the automotive industry, confirmed he's building the world's largest battery factory. It's in the USA, it's fully powered by renewables & zero waste   (theverge.com) divider line 50
    More: Cool, spaceflights, Gigafactory, CEO Elon Musk, factory, refuses  
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2305 clicks; posted to Business » on 26 Feb 2014 at 9:10 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 08:27:03 PM
This is going to be a very green factory. There's going to be a lot of solar power. It's going to have essentially zero emissions and there are no toxic elements that are going to come out ... and we will build recycling capability right into the factory.

Yay for the factory.  If they manage to standardize a component battery pack, they could make a mint selling them to other companies as well, which would expand their market and employ even more people.  I'm questioning his claim about zero emissions unless he's just discounting where they get the lithium from.
 
2014-02-26 09:12:07 PM
I only use Shipstones.
 
2014-02-26 09:16:57 PM
I really hope there's a Heaven so guys like Musk, da Vinci and Feynman can someday have a beer together.
 
2014-02-26 09:29:08 PM
Electric cars LOL

They'll never work
 
2014-02-26 09:29:13 PM
www.oocities.org
 
2014-02-26 09:32:20 PM

dforkus: Electric cars LOL

They'll never work


0/10
 
2014-02-26 09:33:48 PM

dforkus: Electric cars * LOL

They'll never work


99% sure sarcasm.  But just in case, I fixed it for you.  Just apply to any advancement throughout history.
 
2014-02-26 09:34:47 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Detroit would be an ideal place for such operations?
 
2014-02-26 09:45:15 PM

captainmaxthedestroyer: Am I the only one who thinks Detroit would be an ideal place for such operations?


5/10

Such subtle. Very sneak. Much troll
 
2014-02-26 09:56:19 PM
Elon Musk talking to his A.I. Forman

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-26 10:05:09 PM

Lsherm: This is going to be a very green factory. There's going to be a lot of solar power. It's going to have essentially zero emissions and there are no toxic elements that are going to come out ... and we will build recycling capability right into the factory.

Yay for the factory.  If they manage to standardize a component battery pack, they could make a mint selling them to other companies as well, which would expand their market and employ even more people.  I'm questioning his claim about zero emissions unless he's just discounting where they get the lithium from.


He wasn't dumb enough to claim his entire supply chain was zero emissions.  Baby steps.
 
2014-02-26 10:06:52 PM
Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?
 
2014-02-26 10:08:49 PM
Well, the fundamentalists now have a new candidate for the Antichrist.
 
2014-02-26 10:09:43 PM
I like Musk's ideas and the Tesla is a neat little toy, but I'm skeptical of the constant praise the guy gets, especially with his own claims (like 80% of the US population is within range of a supercharger station).
Which means that 1 station on Manhattan island means all of New York and Boston are covered. It's technically true, but his ideas always struck me as more fun in theory than practice

/Standardized batteries & chargers is something the government should be doing for electric car designs to avoid the CD R+/R- shenanigans of the early 2000s
 
2014-02-26 10:09:51 PM

Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?


Not sure about that but his profile is much higher now. If the Halo Effect was any stronger he'd either be declared a Catholic Saint or a best selling Xbox title.
 
2014-02-26 10:12:41 PM

EngineerAU: Not sure about that but his profile is much higher now. If the Halo Effect was any stronger he'd either be declared a Catholic Saint or a best selling Xbox title.


It's almost like we're waiting for him to build an Iron Man suit, isn't it?
 
2014-02-26 10:13:12 PM

Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?


Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor
 
2014-02-26 10:18:10 PM

Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor


dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho
 
2014-02-26 10:27:26 PM

Robin Hoodie: Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor

dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho


He is actually a top designer at Spacex.
 
2014-02-26 10:29:58 PM
Not sure how PayPal revolutionized the banking business. Not a lot of others shifting to match them (for example I can't generate a clickable emailed billing statement from a Transportation Alliance Bank account that allows me to be paid directly by credit card to my account. I haven't seen any actual, FDIC or CUAA member entity that does allow that. The current regs regarding accepting credit card transfers and stuff forbid it, from what I have been able to ascertain. You have to have a legit business transfer account, and most banks require it to be tied to a business on file with the state one opens the bank account in. For example I can get an EIN for a sole proprietorship without filing in various states, and in some states I can use an unlimited number of DBAs without ever filing with the government. But banking regs require that CC transfers be to accounts of verified businesses. PayPal doesn't do that because it isn't a regulated entity in that way and doesn't have to abide by the same AML and other PATRIOT ACT provisions in the same strict way. They also can seize my funds at any time and I can have a hell of a time getting them back because they are not a regulated entity. The existence of PayPal has not changed how the industry does business or the regulatory environment.

Tesla isn't viewed as a challenge to the big players in the automotive industry, in fact the electric cars everyone else rushes out and are pointed to as examples in the media are deliberately hobbled as electric cars. The dealership model requires internal combustion engines because only servicing cars after the sale make them profitable, and many states don't permit selling new vehicles any other way. So Tesla's odds of ever getting a good market share are very small. His space company is doing great things but how many others are following his lead? Perhaps that is where he is best able to change a paradigm because it is such a small market anyway.

Musk to date has offered good alternatives and any of them could be revolutionary but none so far have truly proven to be so. When other banks offer me services like PayPal with protection from FDIC and regulations, then he will have revolutionized banking. When Ford and GM come out with all electric motors and with 200+ mile ranges without an onboard IC engine to assist, then he will have started to revolutionize the automotive industry. When Boeing and Rolls Royce start poaching his aerospace engineers, he will have started to revolutionize the space travel business.

I want him to actually revolutionize something. But the powers that be have shown little interest in competing with him. They don't care about the niches he carves out. He is becoming The Sharper Image of tech businesses.

Maybe with batteries he can do more.
 
2014-02-26 10:37:00 PM

Hollie Maea: Robin Hoodie: Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor

dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho

He is actually a top designer at Spacex.


No, he isn't.
 
2014-02-26 10:46:28 PM
He has the perfect name to release a perfume brand.
 
2014-02-26 10:49:09 PM
I personally hope Musk doesn't put all his eggs in one basket with the current battery packs and starts considering some other technologies that could eventually succeed them, like the solid electrolyte lithium-sulfur batteries being experimented with in ORNL. Rough specs put them at something resembling 8x capacity with half the voltage of other lithium batteries/4x capacity at same voltage.
 
2014-02-26 10:49:10 PM
Is this guy from the future?
 
2014-02-26 11:18:54 PM

meanmutton: Hollie Maea: Robin Hoodie: Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor

dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho

He is actually a top designer at Spacex.

No, he isn't.


Don't tell SpaceX. They seem to think he's their "CEO and Chief Designer" for some reason. But I'm sure you know better.
 
2014-02-26 11:22:19 PM
i only use free-range organic goat poop to power my house and car,
less methane then cow poop
 
2014-02-26 11:53:09 PM

mongbiohazard: meanmutton: Hollie Maea: Robin Hoodie: Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor

dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho

He is actually a top designer at Spacex.

No, he isn't.

Don't tell SpaceX. They seem to think he's their "CEO and Chief Designer" for some reason. But I'm sure you know better.


Also don't tell Tesla... he's their Product Architect and CEO... He's also designed things like the hyperloop, gesture based 3d printing...
 
2014-02-27 12:33:02 AM

Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?


According to a few places, such as this SFGate article, Musk is "worth" as much as 12 billion, or as little as 6 billion (Forbes, but dated last fall).   Several media outlets are stating around 5 billion to build his new factory; with apparently several states practically begging for it to be "theirs."  All things considered the guy could probably pay for it out of pocket* without much issue.

* Yes, I realize "net worth" doesn't mean liquid assets and paying for it up front with his own money would be a huge financial risk; but it would also ensure that there would be nobody to tell him he's doing it wrong either.
 
2014-02-27 12:50:21 AM

Shan: All things considered the guy could probably pay for it out of pocket* without much issue.


You silly billy, rich people don't get rich spending their money. They get rich by spending other people's money.
 
2014-02-27 01:05:05 AM

Ishkur: Shan: All things considered the guy could probably pay for it out of pocket* without much issue.

You silly billy, rich people don't get rich spending their money. They get rich by spending other people's money.


True but who do you think the bank (or investors) are more likely to give a 5B loan to, Musk with 12B in his pocket or me with 12 cents and a piece of bubble gum.
 
2014-02-27 01:41:51 AM

Shan: True but who do you think the bank (or investors) are more likely to give a 5B loan to, Musk with 12B in his pocket or me with 12 cents and a piece of bubble gum.


Exactly. Musk would rather spend the bank's money on this project rather than his own.
 
2014-02-27 01:55:00 AM

Quantumbunny: mongbiohazard: meanmutton: Hollie Maea: Robin Hoodie: Dougie AXP: Ishkur: Didn't he try this once years ago but he couldn't secure financing because every investor told him they wanted him to build the plant in China?

Probably, but then Tesla went public and now people/investors are throwing money at him because, hell look at his track record:

Paypal: Massive Success
Space X: Privatized Space parts of space exploration, success
Tesla Motors: Stock Price ~250/share, nationwide network (stage 1) of supercharging will be complete by the end of 2015, have two new (and supposedly more affordable) models in the works for launch in 1-3 years.

The man may be eccentric and a shiatty husband but he's a great businessman and inventor

dude he didn't invent any of those things. he is an incredible businessman tho

He is actually a top designer at Spacex.

No, he isn't.

Don't tell SpaceX. They seem to think he's their "CEO and Chief Designer" for some reason. But I'm sure you know better.

Also don't tell Tesla... he's their Product Architect and CEO... He's also designed things like the hyperloop, gesture based 3d printing...




Yep, pay no attention to his degrees in physics and business. He's just some know nothing guy.
 
2014-02-27 01:58:52 AM

Ishkur: Shan: All things considered the guy could probably pay for it out of pocket* without much issue.

You silly billy, rich people don't get rich spending their money. They get rich by spending other people's money.


If you watch "Revenge of the Electric Car" you'll see that he put almost every last cent he had into Tesla to keep the doors open before the IPO. He bet the farm on it succeeding.
Apparently yesterday alone, he made 1.1 billion on Tesla's stock value jump.
 
2014-02-27 05:12:49 AM
Xerox invented the copier so they could sell toner.
 
2014-02-27 08:19:08 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I like Musk's ideas and the Tesla is a neat little toy, but I'm skeptical of the constant praise the guy gets, especially with his own claims (like 80% of the US population is within range of a supercharger station).
Which means that 1 station on Manhattan island means all of New York and Boston are covered. It's technically true, but his ideas always struck me as more fun in theory than practice

/Standardized batteries & chargers is something the government should be doing for electric car designs to avoid the CD R+/R- shenanigans of the early 2000s


He is great at selling ideas, not great at making them.

Maybe tesla will have dozens of cars on the road at some point.

/oh yes, people who dont fall over themselves for his hype are all just mean conservatives!
 
2014-02-27 08:35:48 AM

legion_of_doo: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I like Musk's ideas and the Tesla is a neat little toy, but I'm skeptical of the constant praise the guy gets, especially with his own claims (like 80% of the US population is within range of a supercharger station).
Which means that 1 station on Manhattan island means all of New York and Boston are covered. It's technically true, but his ideas always struck me as more fun in theory than practice

/Standardized batteries & chargers is something the government should be doing for electric car designs to avoid the CD R+/R- shenanigans of the early 2000s

He is great at selling ideas, not great at making them.

Maybe tesla will have dozens of cars on the road at some point.

/oh yes, people who dont fall over themselves for his hype are all just mean conservatives!


So what have you done with YOUR life?  Win a free milkshake from McDonald's Monopoly?
 
2014-02-27 09:22:15 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: /Standardized batteries & chargers is something the government should be doing for electric car designs to avoid the CD R+/R- shenanigans of the early 2000s


I agree strongly with this statement.  Nothing is going to hold electric cars back more than each manufacturer having its own proprietary battery designs.  A list of standardized batteries would go a really long way toward making battery-swapping stations a reality, and would make electrics MUCH more viable.
 
2014-02-27 09:33:45 AM

Ishkur: Shan: True but who do you think the bank (or investors) are more likely to give a 5B loan to, Musk with 12B in his pocket or me with 12 cents and a piece of bubble gum.

Exactly. Musk would rather spend the bank's money on this project rather than his own.


One of the fundamentals of Capitalizmus is using other people's money.
 
2014-02-27 09:45:17 AM
As long as he doesn't take up valuable fracking land and water resources for his "clean battery" factory, it's all good.
 
2014-02-27 10:54:32 AM

HMS_Blinkin: A list of standardized batteries would go a really long way toward making battery-swapping stations a reality, and would make electrics MUCH more viable.


It'll be a necessity for the autonomous-car utopia coming in 10-15 years. The savings (across society) from that result from cars being able to keep moving instead of spending 80+% of their time sitting around parked, and electrics won't be able to keep up without battery swapping or some revolution in charge times.
 
2014-02-27 11:23:22 AM

BolloxReader: Tesla isn't viewed as a challenge to the big players in the automotive industry, in fact the electric cars everyone else rushes out and are pointed to as examples in the media are deliberately hobbled as electric cars. The dealership model requires internal combustion engines because only servicing cars after the sale make them profitable, and many states don't permit selling new vehicles any other way. So Tesla's odds of ever getting a good market share are very small. His space company is doing great things but how many others are following his lead? Perhaps that is where he is best able to change a paradigm because it is such a small market anyway.


If Tesla wasn't viewed as a challenge to the big players, then you wouldn't see them scrambling around like they are right now.  On one hand, you've got Dealer Unions paying Republican (so called "free market) politicians off to create <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/02/auto_dealers_pu sh_legi slation.html">legislation to block Telsa from selling cars in their state.</a>

Meanwhile, you've got a company that literally cannot build their product fast enough for demand, and yet their stock has increased 500% in the last year.  And their flagship car is - for a second year in a row - <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-model-s-ram-1500-win-top-mark s-from- consumer-reports/"> given the highest rating of ALL TIME</a> by Consumer Reports.  It is, essentially, the BEST car you can buy.  Period.

And currently, their working on their affordable model for the general public, which should be coming in about 3-5 years.

What that adds up to is a company that manufactures entirely in the US (using the most state-of-the-art production facility in the auto industry) with the reputation of building the most amazing car available that they'll sell to you without ever having to deal with a sales person.  An, oh yeah, it doesn't rely on gas and they'll be making their own batteries (in the largest, most-advanced battery factory in the world) for it in 3 years time to keep costs down.

Don't think the big companies aren't taking notice? They've literally got 5 years before Tesla becomes one of the "BIG COMPANIES".  And it will take a massive paradigm shift (that the unions will fight tooth-and-nail to block) to prepare themselves.

The only thing that can possibly stop or slow Tesla from becoming a HUGE player in the auto industry in 5 years in government intervention via the deep-pocket puppet masters.
 
2014-02-27 11:48:36 AM

StubePT: Don't think the big companies aren't taking notice? They've literally got 5 years before Tesla becomes one of the "BIG COMPANIES". And it will take a massive paradigm shift (that the unions will fight tooth-and-nail to block) to prepare themselves.


Curiously, if you compare total company value - Tesla is currently worth 1/2 of GM's total market value, and rapidly rising every day.

If they keep up their current stock growth rate, they'll be America's most valuable car manufacturer within a few months. That's gotta be a scary thought for GM and Ford.
 
2014-02-27 12:56:26 PM
When Elon Musk finally snaps and goes Harvey Dent on us all, it's going to make Julian Assange look like the freakin' Penguin by comparison.
 
2014-02-27 01:20:02 PM

legion_of_doo: He is great at selling ideas, not great at making them.


Reminds me of the guy who was convinced Tesla was vaporware when all they were selling was the Roadster. I told him I saw them on the road, people owned them... He wouldn't have it.

Are you that guy?
 
2014-02-27 01:58:54 PM

StubePT: BolloxReader: Tesla isn't viewed as a challenge to the big players in the automotive industry, in fact the electric cars everyone else rushes out and are pointed to as examples in the media are deliberately hobbled as electric cars. The dealership model requires internal combustion engines because only servicing cars after the sale make them profitable, and many states don't permit selling new vehicles any other way. So Tesla's odds of ever getting a good market share are very small. His space company is doing great things but how many others are following his lead? Perhaps that is where he is best able to change a paradigm because it is such a small market anyway.

If Tesla wasn't viewed as a challenge to the big players, then you wouldn't see them scrambling around like they are right now.  On one hand, you've got Dealer Unions paying Republican (so called "free market) politicians off to create <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2014/02/auto_dealers_pu sh_legi slation.html">legislation to block Telsa from selling cars in their state.</a>

Meanwhile, you've got a company that literally cannot build their product fast enough for demand, and yet their stock has increased 500% in the last year.  And their flagship car is - for a second year in a row - <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-model-s-ram-1500-win-top-mark s-from- consumer-reports/"> given the highest rating of ALL TIME</a> by Consumer Reports.  It is, essentially, the BEST car you can buy.  Period.

And currently, their working on their affordable model for the general public, which should be coming in about 3-5 years.

What that adds up to is a company that manufactures entirely in the US (using the most state-of-the-art production facility in the auto industry) with the reputation of building the most amazing car available that they'll sell to you without ever having to deal with a sales person.  An, oh yeah, it doesn't rely on gas and they'll be making their ...


head meet hammer.

I think the majors and unions know legislation is the only chance they have. I hope Tesla is armed to the teeth with lobbyists and lawyers.
 
2014-02-27 02:17:17 PM
Zero waste but lots of open pit mines in Canada.  Yay?
 
2014-02-27 02:26:10 PM

legion_of_doo: Maybe tesla will have dozens of cars on the road at some point.


Well since they have sold 25,000 of them... they have already beat your expectations by over 10,000x!
 
2014-02-27 02:37:44 PM

89 Stick-Up Kid: Zero waste but lots of open pit mines in Canada.  Yay?


You"d be wrong. Current lithium "mining" is actually a brine that is collected from a high desert lake, Salar de Atacama, in Chile. They use evaporation pools to harvest the lithium.
evworld.com
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/1124/034.html

Researchers recently discovered a massive (like 720 years worth) deposit of underground lithium brine in Wyoming, when searching for a atmospheric CO2 storage facility, ironically enough.

So no, no open pit mines. You get saltwater evaporation pools.
 
2014-02-27 04:07:13 PM
Should also be noted that basic research on what causes marine animals to stick to rocks in the ocean has created an electrolyte for lith-ion batteries that is non-flammable and four times as efficient.

You know, from that "why are the taxpayers paying for people to study sea slug slime" snarky-ass school of conservative thought that also brought you "why are we spending money on something called 'volcano monitoring'" a month before Mt. Redoubt exploded.
 
2014-02-27 07:51:34 PM

StubePT: Meanwhile, you've got a company that literally cannot build their product fast enough for demand, and yet their stock has increased 500% in the last year. And their flagship car is - for a second year in a row - <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-model-s-ram-1500-win-top-mark s-from- consumer-reports/"> given the highest rating of ALL TIME</a> by Consumer Reports. It is, essentially, the BEST car you can buy. Period.


Is this the same consumer reports that doesn't disclose their surveying/weighting methodology and gives wildly distant ratings to vehicles with the same physical specs but different trim codes (Like the GMC Sierra/Chevrolet Silverado - every car person can tell you that side panel styling and leather options totally impact driving performance).

Or is this the consumer reports that doesn't account for severity of problems while providing a quantified number of total problems? If the Ford Focus' entertainment suite is confusing and the cupholders are in weird places, but the Chevrolet Impala's engine stalls after 5000 miles, then Chevy made a better car because it has fewer problems.
 
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