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(Entertainment Weekly)   George R.R. Martin's "Winds of Winter" is finally here. Well, a short paragraph about Tyrion is, anyway   (shelf-life.ew.com) divider line 176
    More: Spiffy, The Winds of Winter, Tyrion Lannister, Tyrion, Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin  
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5344 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Feb 2014 at 3:26 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 06:37:33 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows.

i think he needs to re-apply at the central office, and thats just a huge pain


Well if thats the case I'd say fark em' too.
 
2014-02-26 06:44:23 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It ...


I think you're giving him too much credit. He's literally in the process of breaking his vows for the 2nd time. If he is to be one head of the dragon -- I doubt anyone is disputing that at this point -- he's going to need to be free of his NW vows. Also it's not like any characters have ever had some time of epiphany when faced with a life altering or horrifyingly significant event. Of course there's *zero* chance Jon would come around and say "Man it sucks being stabbed in the back."
 
2014-02-26 06:46:22 PM

bglove25: James Rieper: Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in ...


They're aren't any beyond some fan wankery reading way too much into a few lines about his hair color and eyes while completely ignoring absolutely everything said or done by Tywin
 
2014-02-26 06:49:18 PM

SomeoneDumb: legion_of_doo: SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either

What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.

The ingame tutorial freezes, but that's not the point. It's a fascinating game and, you're right, there's tons under the hood and going on. I just need to spend more time with it.

/Maybe it was a mistake trying to make Lord Bolton of the Dreadfort my hero


Roose Bolton isnt a bad start because he has a good base & is important (strong)... but i hate the North because it takes forever to get into action unless some minor lord revolts against Robb "i marry for love" Stark. Your only real interest as Lord Bolton is to fight Robb's war, or (more interestingly) take out the Starks and become Lord of the North.

(You can guess what i chose as Roose Bolton)

It is better, in many ways, to not be a Lord Paramount as you learn the game, especially with the size of things (except the Ironborn). The Tullys are in a hard spot, the Lannisters and King Joffrey have the Baratheons AND Robb. The Vale is kind of screwed at the Clash of Kings due to no Jon Arryn, and a minor as Lord Paramount. The thing is, all their bannermen and minor lords are not as cool as Roose Bolton, so playing a power behind the throne kind of sucks. (Walder Frey is a nightmare because of all the children.)

On the other hand, as i recall, Dorne is pretty safe, though, as are the Tyrrells in the Reach. If you want more, and to be closer to the mess in King's Landing, the Reach is something to consider, unleas you actually like the Dorne plotlines...
 
2014-02-26 06:52:37 PM
Be a fun read/watch when Jon goes all skinchanger on a dragon....
 
2014-02-26 06:52:50 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.

even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)


Like I said to a previous poster sorry but you guys have throw out way too many "but ifs" to frame Snow out for AAR where as Dany requires none of that. Its just like Ken Feder says you can turn a rat into a cat if you change a few details but in the end its still a rat.
 
2014-02-26 06:55:04 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a te ...


Okay I gotta stop you right there, lets leave the heads of the dragon out of this or I'm gonna have to toss out my insane theories.
 
2014-02-26 06:58:21 PM

tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows


And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.
 
2014-02-26 07:00:36 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his du ...


Fair enough. There are only a finite number of possibilities for the dragons.

Either way my point stands. Pretty much every major living character with a POV chapter (except maybe Cersei) has had a *major* personality change when faced with a life altering even. Jamie (hand), Sansa ( take your pick), Arya (beheading), Tyrion (take your pick), Theon (rhymes with leek), Bran ( take your pick ), et al.

Jon's life altering event is what, joining the Night's Watch? That didn't really change his personality. He was less of an asshole after Noye told him to change his attitude, but he never really changed who he was. Getting stabbed in the back by your "brothers" is probably going to give him a fresh perspective on things.
 
2014-02-26 07:02:19 PM

kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.


There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?
 
2014-02-26 07:05:25 PM

kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.


It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.
 
2014-02-26 07:07:14 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people woul ...


It could be as you say, Dondarrion says dying and coming back changes you and if anyone would know. I just still don't see it. Why would a character who has always done the right thing from his perspective no matter what his entire life just suddenly succumb to a fit of selfishness. The only scenario I can see this happening is if Jon turns out to be the KK reborn but I doubt you find that comforting.
 
2014-02-26 07:09:43 PM

legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.


You guys keep circling like this and I'm am gonna have to open up on you with some serious tinfoil shiat.
 
2014-02-26 07:10:16 PM

Flab: My money's on Sansa.
-
- She will warg eventually.


media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2014-02-26 07:11:11 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all p ...


What if the "right thing" is the safety of the realm versus his presence on the wall?

The "right' thing is such a vague prediction.
 
2014-02-26 07:11:54 PM

legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.


I think you'll be disappointed, then. GRRM loves to loudly announce a character's true death - Khal Drogo, Dany's unborn child, Arya's butcher boy friend, etc. (I picked examples from the first book in case people haven't read the more recent ones). Jon's was too neatly obscured.

He lives.

img.fark.net

/Bored at work during my lunch hour, so going through the arduous task of re-reading the books
 
2014-02-26 07:12:57 PM

redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?


You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor
 
2014-02-26 07:16:56 PM
And which one of you posted this on Wikipedia:

"On February 26th, 2014, Entertainment Weekly posted a paragraph from a Tyrion chapter on their website, confirming that Martin has written at least five sentences of the book. This news encouraged fans that the book will be released by 2027. "
 
2014-02-26 07:20:04 PM

ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor


If he puts on a funny mask and takes on a mystery name like a luchador, then maybe i will keep reading... but i am tired of Ned 2.5, Jon Snow (with Robb the dull being 2.0).
 
2014-02-26 07:20:35 PM

aevorea: legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.

I think you'll be disappointed, then. GRRM loves to loudly announce a character's true death - Khal Drogo, Dany's unborn child, Arya's butcher boy friend, etc. (I picked examples from the first book in case people haven't read the more recent ones). Jon's was too neatly obscured.

He lives.

[img.fark.net image 238x211]

/Bored at work during my lunch hour, so going through the arduous task of re-reading the books


Jon's chapter ending "death" really isn't written much differently than the Hound hitting Arya with an axe at the twins or Catelyn at the twins or when Yoren saved Arya in KL.
 
2014-02-26 07:29:28 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon ...


Explain why him taking a throne he doesn't want, isn't entitled to, is unqualified to sit on and has at least 3 people with a stronger claim than him would be the right thing ever? King Jon is wishful thinking sorry. Besides, by the end of this who's to say there will even and IT to sit on.
 
2014-02-26 07:31:47 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really ...


Who said he'd be the one sitting on the throne and who said there are 3 better claims than him. At the very worst, he probably has the 3rd best claim, maybe 4th assuming Stannis doesn't die.
 
2014-02-26 07:32:38 PM

kronicfeld: Jon wargs into Ghost! Arya wargs into Drogon! Bran wargs into Jaime's severed hand and helps Sandor win CleganeBowl!


s.pikabu.ru
 
2014-02-26 07:39:16 PM

redmid17: Jon's chapter ending "death" really isn't written much differently than the Hound hitting Arya with an axe at the twins or Catelyn at the twins or when Yoren saved Arya in KL.


That's what I meant by 'too neatly obscured' - a scene jump (or, in this case, chapter jump).

I need more caffeine.
 
2014-02-26 07:45:58 PM

Nadie_AZ: Next month, Random House will launch a large update for George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire app. In addition to including many new characters and location descriptions

So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?


The throne is a red herring, it doesn't really matter, once winter comes and the White Walkers start marching south.

Hasn't he released a ton of these preview chapters now? A couple out of context paragraphs out of what's probably going to be a 1000ish page novel, gee, thanks George...
 
2014-02-26 07:46:10 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.
...


Dany first, then Stannis and then Shireen and from there most likely a lesser branch of house Baratheon. Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were. Unless he pulls a Robert he has no claim whatsoever unless legitimized, and not to sound like a broken record he was offered it and declined. When it all comes down to it its not that he can't even, its that he won't. I thought that was what we were discussing if he'll claim the IT.
 
2014-02-26 07:50:44 PM

ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor


If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?
 
2014-02-26 07:53:42 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events ...


No we were discussing whether or not he would leave the Night's Watch, and obviously claiming the IT would necessitate that. Even if his claim sucks ass, it doesn't really matter if he marries Dany or Shireen know does it?

Frankly the whole "right" to claim the IT is pretty shifty anyway. The Lannisters have no rightful claim to it. The Tyrells are riding on that same train. Euron and Victarion greyjoy want to marry danny, but Euron is more concerned with getting the dragons to dominate Westeros. Littlefinger is clearly angling to get as much power as he can, and the IT is within range. Stannis has a fairly weak claim through his grandmother, and he doesn't have the support nor the military prowess that Robert used to win the throne. Shireen is a female. As soon as she gets married she's not going to have any power.

Dany has a great claim but all females follow male claimants, so fake Aegon may or may not be in front of her. Bastard or not -- we never know if Rhaegar ran off and never eloped or something stupid GRRM might do -- Jon would have at least as much support as Dany.

Basically lineage or claim to the thrown doesn't matter. At this point it's a free-for-all, especially know that even the good Lannisters know that Tommen has no right to the throne.
 
2014-02-26 07:55:37 PM

ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?


He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.
 
2014-02-26 08:02:34 PM

ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?


Zombie Snow would be stupid to call himself Jon, regardless of if he is the true Azor or not.
 
2014-02-26 08:05:53 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.


That one is pretty much has to be Danny, they beat you over the head w/ the fact that the prophesy used the gender neutral word for prince
 
2014-02-26 08:21:47 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.


Fair dues I am making the assumption the AAR/TPTWP/TLH are all the same person. This may not be the case. My thing is Jon Snow is Jon Snow and thats enough for any character. A force in and of himself, same with Tyrion. They are both great characters and piling hokey plot twists on them just cheapens that. You're basically saying hey forget all the awesome character development and evolution and all the stuff that made you love this guy because the real shiat hasn't even begun! If this were  Shamalan sure but George RR Martin is a little more inventive I think.
 
2014-02-26 08:24:47 PM

HalEmmerich: Nadie_AZ: Next month, Random House will launch a large update for George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire app. In addition to including many new characters and location descriptions

So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

The throne is a red herring, it doesn't really matter, once winter comes and the White Walkers start marching south.

Hasn't he released a ton of these preview chapters now? A couple out of context paragraphs out of what's probably going to be a 1000ish page novel, gee, thanks George...


I think you might be a little fuzzy on the definition of "red herring" did you mean McGuffin? Even then I'd say it was the dragons not the throne.
 
2014-02-26 08:27:26 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: Writers like Martin should be banned from writing anything longer than a trilogy


fat writers?

and by fat I mean really fat
 
2014-02-26 08:54:52 PM
Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.
 
2014-02-26 09:34:46 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.

Fair dues I am making the assumption the AAR/TPTWP/TLH are all the same person. This may not be the case. My thing is Jon Snow is Jon Snow and thats enough for any character. A force in and of himself, same with Tyrion. They are both great characters and piling hokey plot twists on them just cheapens that. You're basically saying hey forget all the awesome character development and evolution and all the stuff that made you love this guy because the real shiat hasn't even begun! If this were  Shamalan sure but George RR Martin is a little more inventive I think.


Frankly I think the decision to change would make his character development better. He was rejected by most of the Starks. He was rejected (and rejected) the wildlings. The Night's Watch is clearly rejecting him, stabbing and all.  Would it really kill his character to finally find a family that doesn't reject him?

I do agree though that Tyrion is pretty badass in and of himself. You'll also notice that his awesome character is attaching himself to Dany via the Second Sons.
 
2014-02-26 09:42:15 PM

James Rieper: Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.


exept for the fact that its heavily implied tyrion is the epitome of his father tywin...

You guys need to relax. GRRM seems decent at writing politics and subterfuge but every ounce of prophetic crap and everything involving azor and melissandre just reeks of inorganic half thought through garbage. It feels like something thought up half way through.

And the Victarion crap feels like filler. And tyrions adventures on the mainland are sadly reminiscent of harry potter and the deathly hallows 200 page camping trip. And Danny hasnt done anything mildy productive to the plot for 2 books. And Jon Snow tosses everything he learned and that has been impressed on him in the last gazillion pages and goes all potato over his step sister?

AND WTF WAS WITH THE GLASS CANDLE shiat IN OLDTOWN??? LIKE ONE FREAKING ENIGMATIC CHAPTER IN ONE BOOK AND ITS BEEN TIED BACK TO NOTHING.

fark this series. Dont over think it because its damn clear because the authors not.
 
2014-02-26 10:30:29 PM
img.fark.net

It is obvious where this is all going. Rust Cohle realizes he is really a character in a TV show, and finds a way to hop across the DVD collection into Westeros, where he takes up the mantle of the Yellow King.
 
2014-02-26 10:36:17 PM
Fake.  No mention of food in excruciating detail.  There were no trenchers of roasted suckling covered in a glaze of honey and spices.
 
2014-02-26 10:38:52 PM
www.restaurantwidow.com
 
2014-02-26 10:41:21 PM

TV's Vinnie: [www.restaurantwidow.com image 480x434]


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-26 10:48:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Krz-dyD-UQ

Because this is always relevant to GoT.
 
2014-02-26 11:42:25 PM

ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.


No he's not. They got married secretly.
 
2014-02-27 12:36:20 AM

WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.

No he's not. They got married secretly.


Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.
 
2014-02-27 02:10:45 AM

WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.


No he's not. They got married secretly.

Magruda:
WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.

Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.

imgs.xkcd.com

Apparently its not just for the politics tab anymore.
 
2014-02-27 04:01:50 AM

Tax Boy: Flab: My money's on Sansa.
-
- She will warg eventually.

[media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 500x281]


And she knows a wizard

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-27 06:16:04 AM
Take everything I wrote with a grain of salt. I haven't read a word of the books.
 
2014-02-27 07:12:00 AM
You people and your assinine theories.  Obviously, Hodor will end up on the throne.
 
2014-02-27 07:30:24 AM

James Rieper: Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.


Tyrion's eyes: one black, one green.

Targaryen colors: black amd red.

Targaryen rraidtional eye color: purple, from the blood of old Valyria.

What are you talking about?
 
2014-02-27 08:14:29 AM

Magruda: Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.


"Legitimacy" only matters to the extent that other people with power care about such legal fictions. The Supreme Court isn't deciding this.
 
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