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(Entertainment Weekly)   George R.R. Martin's "Winds of Winter" is finally here. Well, a short paragraph about Tyrion is, anyway   (shelf-life.ew.com) divider line 176
    More: Spiffy, The Winds of Winter, Tyrion Lannister, Tyrion, Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin  
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5348 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Feb 2014 at 3:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 04:32:24 PM  

SpdrJay: Will there be more verses to the Weiners Song?


This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0MGmugjxBjg
 
2014-02-26 04:39:13 PM  

Shostie: "Exclusive first look?"

Martin's already read three or four chapters at various events.


I'm almost positive I remember seeing a "Here's a chapter about Tyrion from Winds of Winter" posted somewhere quite a long time ago.
 
2014-02-26 04:40:28 PM  

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


www.ljplus.ru
 
2014-02-26 04:40:58 PM  
Hodor becomes the greatest king Westeros has ever had. Long live King Hodor the Hodor.
 
2014-02-26 04:42:59 PM  

Confabulat: Derwood: SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER

But what will they eat?


I don't know but I'm sure it will have an elaborate two paragraph description.
 
2014-02-26 04:45:00 PM  
Does anyone else feel that the Others, based on what they have done so far, come off as no worse than most of the regular cast?  Sure they animate the dead to use as soldiers but if Tywinn Lannister could do that he would have in a flash.  Legends from thousands of years ago are not necessarily accurate either.

Although they are generally portrayed as this sort of scary over arching threat now making their move, in general they don't seem any more evil than the Boltons, the Freys, so on and so forth in what they have actually done.
 
2014-02-26 04:45:37 PM  

Clash City Farker: error 303: "Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."

They are Lannister twins. Tyrion is Targaryen.


media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-26 04:45:51 PM  

Blues_X: RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


He already has an assistant who could finish it up. He co-wrote this (which I liked quite a bit):

[d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net image 301x475]


Just finished the most recent one, love that series so far.

As far as this goes, I'd rather just know the release date so I can read it all at once.  He released sample chapters of Dance with Dragons 5 years before that was published.
 
2014-02-26 04:46:12 PM  

Blues_X: RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


He already has an assistant who could finish it up. He co-wrote this (which I liked quite a bit):

[d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net image 301x475]


I don't know if you meant Sanderson or Martin, but...James S.A. Corey is actually Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck, though I believe Martin did serve as a part-time editor.

/also, a 4th book in that trilogy is coming out...so, everything is a series.
 
2014-02-26 04:48:14 PM  

proteon: So Tyrion lives through the next few seasons?  Thanks subby


projectfandom.com
 
2014-02-26 04:53:01 PM  
Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in case he survives long enough to write some more short stories.

Haven't figured out where Arya and Littlefinger end up, but what do you want for a nickel?
 
2014-02-26 04:58:09 PM  

Copperbelly watersnake: That has been my theory too, backed by the fact that martin has always been very vague about Lyanna's death.


It's pretty much an open secret more than a theory.  Pretty sure Martin wanted people to figure that one out fairly easily.

I'm hoping the series will at least have a little of the backstory.  One of my favorite bits in the book is Jojen Reed telling Bran Stark a story referencing the famous Tournament-that-started-all-the-unpleasantness and it going right over the top of Bran's head.
 
2014-02-26 04:59:01 PM  

EddieFC: Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.

Unless He somehow manages to get Winds out by the end of the year and I really doubt he will, that's exactly what's going to happen. They will be filming the Feast/Dance season this year, so production wise the show should be caught up or close to it by then.


Martin's publisher has confirmed that Winds is  not going to be out before 2015. As for the show, it's apparently going to take up to three seasons to cover the events of Feast and Dance, giving Martin time to get Winds out, which presumably gives him 3 years from now to finish both remaining books, of which there is no chance in hell.
 
2014-02-26 05:00:21 PM  

yelmrog: Copperbelly watersnake: That has been my theory too, backed by the fact that martin has always been very vague about Lyanna's death.

It's pretty much an open secret more than a theory.  Pretty sure Martin wanted people to figure that one out fairly easily.

I'm hoping the series will at least have a little of the backstory.  One of my favorite bits in the book is Jojen Reed telling Bran Stark a story referencing the famous Tournament-that-started-all-the-unpleasantness and it going right over the top of Bran's head.


Martin has pretty much confirmed it.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:13 PM  

Gergesa: Does anyone else feel that the Others, based on what they have done so far, come off as no worse than most of the regular cast?  Sure they animate the dead to use as soldiers but if Tywinn Lannister could do that he would have in a flash.  Legends from thousands of years ago are not necessarily accurate either.

Although they are generally portrayed as this sort of scary over arching threat now making their move, in general they don't seem any more evil than the Boltons, the Freys, so on and so forth in what they have actually done.


I am definitely of the opinion that the Others have logical, if misguided, reasons for doing what they are doing.  I also believe that it will be discovered that the First Men and/or Children of the Forest started the war back during the long winter, and were unprepared for the Other's vicious counterattack.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:16 PM  
Well, that was a year well spent. Can't wait to read the paragraph he writes during 2014 this time next year. I hope it involved food.

/someone needs to lock him in a room until it's finished...ALL of it.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:32 PM  

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.
 
2014-02-26 05:08:49 PM  

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


Sanderson apparently isn't a fan of gore and adult situations. He'd be an awful choice in this case. Joe Abercrombie would be a decent option however.
 
2014-02-26 05:15:09 PM  

Non-evil Monkey: I am definitely of the opinion that the Others have logical, if misguided, reasons for doing what they are doing.  I also believe that it will be discovered that the First Men and/or Children of the Forest started the war back during the long winter, and were unprepared for the Other's vicious counterattack.


I was betting on "Eternal struggle between the two deities of Ice and Fire".  I believe Melisandre makes mention of an opposing deity to r'hllor at some point in the series.  It might explain why the seasons are so weird.
 
2014-02-26 05:15:19 PM  
Haven't figured out the "raising dragons from stone bit" yet.  It seems to be pretty key, but it's not clear that there need to be more than three dragons.  I mean, the whole bloody continent was conquered with three dragons back in the day.

I'm not sure if this means the statuary at Dragonstone or if it's less literal.  Maybe there are other fossilized dragon eggs somewhere on the western journey?
 
2014-02-26 05:17:05 PM  
Floppy wieners, everywhere.
 
2014-02-26 05:17:33 PM  
Our children will rebel against us by becoming incredibly boring.
 
2014-02-26 05:19:23 PM  

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.


If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.
 
2014-02-26 05:21:30 PM  
My hope is that there's more floppy wieners
 
2014-02-26 05:23:27 PM  

James Rieper: Haven't figured out the "raising dragons from stone bit" yet.  It seems to be pretty key, but it's not clear that there need to be more than three dragons.  I mean, the whole bloody continent was conquered with three dragons back in the day.

I'm not sure if this means the statuary at Dragonstone or if it's less literal.  Maybe there are other fossilized dragon eggs somewhere on the western journey?


See that passage is only confusing if take you it for granted that Dany isn't AAR which is one mother of an assumption based largely on the argument "its too obvious"
 
2014-02-26 05:28:22 PM  

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.


I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go pretend he was a wildling.

I agree that Jon wouldn't forsake his vows to the Watch in order to go off and be king, but I could see a situation in which the Wall falls and the Others start coming south, the realms turn to Jon because he's the only one who's had any success fighting them, and he ends up as king more or less by default.
 
2014-02-26 05:28:47 PM  

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


That's my thoughts, too.  Probably many people's.  Of course, at this point I'm fully expecting HBO to pass him up and finish the series first...which I would be completely fine with.
 
2014-02-26 05:30:27 PM  

neon_god: EddieFC: Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.

Unless He somehow manages to get Winds out by the end of the year and I really doubt he will, that's exactly what's going to happen. They will be filming the Feast/Dance season this year, so production wise the show should be caught up or close to it by then.

Martin's publisher has confirmed that Winds is  not going to be out before 2015. As for the show, it's apparently going to take up to three seasons to cover the events of Feast and Dance, giving Martin time to get Winds out, which presumably gives him 3 years from now to finish both remaining books, of which there is no chance in hell.


There is no way that Feast/Dance covers three seasons there's just not enough story. Also, The show runners have said they are planning for a total of eight seasons, and they will be filming season 5 this year. I'm guessing we will get the beginnings of Feast/Dance towards the end of this season, then the rest in season five, and seasons 6-8 covering the final 2 books.
 
2014-02-26 05:38:47 PM  

redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.


Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character.
 
2014-02-26 05:39:33 PM  
I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either
 
2014-02-26 05:42:31 PM  

ScaryBottles: Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character


technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows (and would his 'brothers' even allow him back as zombie snoooooooooow?) Thats a very stark way of looking at things, i would think.

also i'd personally think that getting freaking shanked to actual death by your own guys is way less of a 'technicallity' than a 'maybe, sorta, probably not' king's decree.
 
2014-02-26 05:51:16 PM  

tlchwi02: Thats a very  starkway of looking at things, i would think.


hahaha
 
2014-02-26 05:51:31 PM  

SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either


What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.
 
2014-02-26 05:55:02 PM  

qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go pretend he w ...


Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.
 
2014-02-26 05:58:26 PM  
Thank god I didn't discover this series until the show came out. I'm pissed already that I have to wait so long for it to end, I can't imagine having started reading the damn books 10 years ago.
 
2014-02-26 05:58:30 PM  

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go p ...


I believe he can be released from his oath by the religious leader, forget the title. If he was told it was for  the greater good and people asked him to do it he would give in and become king.
 
2014-02-26 06:00:41 PM  

ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.


Married and also a case of the gays.
 
2014-02-26 06:05:04 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character

technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows (and would his 'brothers' even allow him back as zombie snoooooooooow?) Thats a very stark way of looking at things, i would think.

also i'd personally think that getting freaking shanked to actual death by your own guys is way less of a 'technicallity' than a 'maybe, sorta, probably not' king's decree.


Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.
 
2014-02-26 06:07:13 PM  

Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.

Married and also a case of the gays.


I like to think he had more of a Jagger thing going on you know, anything for a laugh.
 
2014-02-26 06:07:47 PM  
Dolorous Edd is the last man standing.

The end.
 
2014-02-26 06:11:03 PM  

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.

Married and also a case of the gays.

I like to think he had more of a Jagger thing going on you know, anything for a laugh.


He was as gay as a trencher of floppy wieners. Which is kind of a problem if you think he slept with Lyanna. I always figured we was just a patsy doing his fathers bidding and it was really Aerys that slept with her. But fat boy pretty much admitted it was Rhaegar.

But why would the best King's guard be at the Tower of Joy unless the King himself ordered it?
 
2014-02-26 06:12:51 PM  

ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.


even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)
 
2014-02-26 06:18:09 PM  

Lothar IB: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Ha ...


See what you aren't getting is yeah its possible he could be absolved in fact he has already been given the chance but he declined. As far as the "greater good" goes if keeping the North out of the hands of Roose Bolton doesn't represent the "greater good" to you I'm not sure what your idea of the greater good is. Also why is it you think Jon would be a better king than anyone else? He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory as commander of the watch now has he. Lets be realistic here without Stannis the wall would be ice cubes for tubby southron lords by now.
 
2014-02-26 06:22:01 PM  

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in ...


Yes considering he was leaving the wall to save his "sister."  Abandoning the wall to interfere in the affairs of the "south" goes pretty much counter to what he promised to do. The oath he swore to Mormont and talked to Aemon about. That, of course, is clearly different than when he left the Wall to go join Robb to go south (he did come back).  Reread Aemon's speech about that in the original GoT book. It's quite expansive. If Jon is willing to do it without your "technicality" to save his sister, then I'm pretty sure he'll feel okay about leaving the wall after being stabbed to death by his "brothers."
 
2014-02-26 06:23:56 PM  

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.

even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)


If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows. But hey I have my own insane theories so take that for whatever its worth. God I can't believe how often I find myself sticking up for the bastard. Alister Thorne would spit in my mouth.
 
2014-02-26 06:24:58 PM  
I honestly dont care what happens anymore...

The story has too many characters and too many threads, and its so goddamn scattered that i cant ever see myself enjoying the conclusion like i thought i would when i started reading. Like 15 farking years ago.

The merennese knot was such a piss in the readers face. Its a polite way to say "I wrote 3 books before i had the ending to my story hammered out" Whups -- you would think an author who had already had 10 years to get PAID thinking about his books WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MORE ABOUT HIS BOOKS.

I can understand some new author doing this, but grrm writes allot.

ASOIAF just reeks of poor planning and plots that have drifted over time because the author never had them hammered out. The same way LOST looked nifty and interesting and half way through things looked messy and then by the end it was a pile of garbage. Remember your p's 'Proper planning prevents piss poor performance'

I am done with trying to 'guess' whats going to happen because
1: I honestly dont think the author himself is that sure...
2: Even if he has half a clue its going to be eons before the books are done so whats the point? Its hard to stay hyped when books are published at a snails pace.
 
2014-02-26 06:25:22 PM  

ScaryBottles: If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows.


i think he needs to re-apply at the central office, and thats just a huge pain
 
2014-02-26 06:26:33 PM  

legion_of_doo: SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either

What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.


The ingame tutorial freezes, but that's not the point. It's a fascinating game and, you're right, there's tons under the hood and going on. I just need to spend more time with it.

/Maybe it was a mistake trying to make Lord Bolton of the Dreadfort my hero
 
2014-02-26 06:31:53 PM  

James Rieper: Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in case he survi ...


Best interpretation I've read (Although I'm not sure what clues say Tyrion is a targaryan).  Otherwise, I love it. Well played and good attention to the clues that lead to these conclusions.
 
2014-02-26 06:36:10 PM  

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amu ...


Once again I think you're giving him too little credit. He's proud, narcissistic, backward and kinda dumb but he honors his vows. If he was inclined to think about himself at all why didn't he accept Stannis's offer? Literally he would be a few steps below a king warden of the north and heir to his ancestral home but more importantly especially for Jon the name Stark. Literally Stannis offered him everything he could ever wanted and more and he still chose the watch. No Jon Snow wants to be a hero and you can ask Ser Jaime how heroic everyone thinks you are when you break your vows.
 
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