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(Entertainment Weekly)   George R.R. Martin's "Winds of Winter" is finally here. Well, a short paragraph about Tyrion is, anyway   (shelf-life.ew.com) divider line 176
    More: Spiffy, The Winds of Winter, Tyrion Lannister, Tyrion, Game of Thrones, George R. R. Martin  
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5344 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Feb 2014 at 3:26 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



176 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-26 12:41:49 PM
I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.
 
2014-02-26 12:54:32 PM
Next month, Random House will launch a large update for George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire app. In addition to including many new characters and location descriptions

So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?
 
2014-02-26 12:55:50 PM

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.



He already has an assistant who could finish it up. He co-wrote this (which I liked quite a bit):

d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net
 
2014-02-26 01:01:02 PM

Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?


No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.
 
2014-02-26 01:11:29 PM
So he finally hunkered down in the back of his van with a pen & notepad?
 
2014-02-26 01:54:16 PM
"Exclusive first look?"

Martin's already read three or four chapters at various events.
 
2014-02-26 02:12:13 PM

kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.


My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.
 
2014-02-26 02:27:06 PM

Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.


I posted this before but it bears repeating... Hodor is taking this. It will turn out that he's loosely related to the Targaryens and is next in line for the throne after Daenerys. Also the word Hodor will turn out to be a magical word that kills white walkers when they hear it and he's not actually retarded... that was all an act to keep anyone from seeing him as a threat. The series finale will have a camera close up of him sitting on the iron throne and he says "Hodor, muthafarkas".
 
2014-02-26 02:43:51 PM
The White Walkers will overrun Westeros because everyone was too busy screwing each other over, and Daenerys' dragons will be too busy killing Iron Islanders because Victarion yoinked them to help anyone. This is really the only logical conclusion to the series.
 
2014-02-26 02:56:40 PM

Flab: warg


So tired of reading this word.
 
2014-02-26 02:59:48 PM

kbronsito: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

I posted this before but it bears repeating... Hodor is taking this. It will turn out that he's loosely related to the Targaryens and is next in line for the throne after Daenerys. Also the word Hodor will turn out to be a magical word that kills white walkers when they hear it and he's not actually retarded... that was all an act to keep anyone from seeing him as a threat. The series finale will have a camera close up of him sitting on the iron throne and he says "Hodor, muthafarkas".


I'm thinking he IS retarded (Brandon would have seen it!)

Hodor could still end up on the throne, but he'd be a warged Brandon (or Jon!  the conclusion of his chapter was a little too open-ended)
 
2014-02-26 03:00:56 PM

kronicfeld: Flab: warg

So tired of reading this word.


Sorry.  I'm using what GRRM is calling it.  Dont get your smallclothes in a twist.
 
2014-02-26 03:06:47 PM

Flab: kronicfeld: Flab: warg

So tired of reading this word.

Sorry.  I'm using what GRRM is calling it.  Dont get your smallclothes in a twist.


Words are wind.
 
2014-02-26 03:14:32 PM

Flab: kronicfeld: Flab: warg

So tired of reading this word.

Sorry.  I'm using what GRRM is calling it.  Dont get your smallclothes in a twist.


Everyone's answer to everything in the series seems to be BLANK WARGS INTO BLANK AND BLANKS UP BLANK! As though it's the plot device that's going to resolve each and every storyline.

Jon wargs into Ghost! Arya wargs into Drogon! Bran wargs into Jaime's severed hand and helps Sandor win CleganeBowl!
 
2014-02-26 03:22:39 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-26 03:23:09 PM

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


*cockpunch*
 
2014-02-26 03:26:06 PM

kronicfeld: Jon wargs into Ghost!


I fail to see how he's going to resolve that one otherwise, considering Jon Snow has the closest thing to plot armor available in the series.
 
2014-02-26 03:27:14 PM
Die subby.
 
2014-02-26 03:34:12 PM
"And then Tyrion died."
 
2014-02-26 03:36:25 PM

Cagey B: kronicfeld: Jon wargs into Ghost!

I fail to see how he's going to resolve that one otherwise, considering Jon Snow has the closest thing to plot armor available in the series.


perhaps if there was a convenient character close by who belonged to a religion with the proven ability to reverse recent death....

i speak of course of Miracle Max
 
2014-02-26 03:37:56 PM
It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.
 
2014-02-26 03:40:43 PM

tlchwi02: perhaps if there was a convenient character close by who belonged to a religion with the proven ability to reverse recent death....


Yeah, there's that too. Jon WARGING into Ghost has been telegraphed for about 3000 pages now, though. So I feel there's nothing unreasonable about WARG-related speculation about Jon WARGING into Ghost.

WARG.
 
2014-02-26 03:42:29 PM

Cagey B: Flab: kronicfeld: Flab: warg

So tired of reading this word.

Sorry.  I'm using what GRRM is calling it.  Dont get your smallclothes in a twist.

Words are wind.


It is known
 
2014-02-26 03:42:41 PM

Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.


Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.
 
2014-02-26 03:45:16 PM
"Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."
 
2014-02-26 03:47:49 PM

error 303: "Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."


They are Lannister twins. Tyrion is Targaryen.
 
2014-02-26 03:47:55 PM

Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.


No kidding. The HBO writers write circles around Martin.
 
2014-02-26 03:48:13 PM
Tyrion does not find your headline amusing, submitter.
 
2014-02-26 03:49:53 PM
So Tyrion lives through the next few seasons?  Thanks subby
 
2014-02-26 03:50:56 PM

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


That has been my theory too, backed by the fact that martin has always been very vague about Lyanna's death.

And since the Targaryens "keep it in the family" he will probably end up marrying Daenerys.
 
2014-02-26 03:51:29 PM

proteon: So Tyrion lives through the next few seasons?  Thanks subby


Ha, it says something about the story when saying a main character actually manages to stay alive is a spoiler.
 
2014-02-26 03:52:46 PM

Clash City Farker: error 303: "Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."

They are Lannister twins. Tyrion is Targaryen.


Well, spoiler alert for Season 4

Wrong color hair, practice incest, would be really ironic (Jaime killed his true father to become Kingslayer [mangled as Kinslayer occaisionaly in the book], and Tyrion does the same to his own father. The son Tywin hated the most was the only one of his that was legitimate.

3 dragons, 3 riders needed, Dany + Jaime + Cersei...

I think it's crazy enough to happen.


End spoiers.
 
2014-02-26 03:54:29 PM

kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.


I have a very strong hunch that somewhere near the end of the series Dany will use her dragon(s) to melt down the throne.  It would be a pretty good bookend to the Targaryen era and symbolize a shift to some kind of still terrible but mildly optimistic new order in Westeros.
 
2014-02-26 03:55:38 PM
If you're looking for another fantasy series to read in the mean time, The Malazan Book of the Fallen is in my opinion better than ASOIAF. Plus the main series is finished already so you don't have to worry about the author dying and leaving you hanging.
 
2014-02-26 03:57:21 PM
My guess is that GRRM, to spite all these predictions, finishes with Hot Pie or some similarly obscure character stumbling upon (and setting off) a thermonuclear device
 
2014-02-26 03:59:10 PM

error 303: Wrong color hair, practice incest, would be really ironic (Jaime killed his true father to become Kingslayer [mangled as Kinslayer occaisionaly in the book], and Tyrion does the same to his own father. The son Tywin hated the most was the only one of his that was legitimate.


He's blonde in the book.

And in the CCG

i.ebayimg.com
 
2014-02-26 04:00:17 PM

Clash City Farker: error 303: "Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."

They are Lannister twins. Tyrion is Targaryen.


And so is Jon Snow. Dany, Tyrion and Jon ride the three dragons to victory
 
2014-02-26 04:00:31 PM
Writers like Martin should be banned from writing anything longer than a trilogy.
 
2014-02-26 04:03:48 PM

tlchwi02: i speak of course of Miracle Max


He said, "to waaaarg", not "true love".
 
2014-02-26 04:05:22 PM
SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER
 
2014-02-26 04:05:59 PM

WippitGuud: error 303: Wrong color hair, practice incest, would be really ironic (Jaime killed his true father to become Kingslayer [mangled as Kinslayer occaisionaly in the book], and Tyrion does the same to his own father. The son Tywin hated the most was the only one of his that was legitimate.

He's blonde in the book.

And in the CCG

[i.ebayimg.com image 214x300]


You know I totally forgot that since I've watched the show much more recently than read the books. Conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the showrunners intentionally cast it that way to make the reveal work better in season 7/8 whenever.

Mind you I don't actually know that I believe it, but of all the crazy lineage theories, it's by far my favorite.
 
2014-02-26 04:06:58 PM

Derwood: SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER


I wonder if Tyrion will pontificate on the ultimate destination of prostitutes.
 
2014-02-26 04:11:35 PM

Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.


Unless He somehow manages to get Winds out by the end of the year and I really doubt he will, that's exactly what's going to happen. They will be filming the Feast/Dance season this year, so production wise the show should be caught up or close to it by then.
 
2014-02-26 04:13:03 PM

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


Not to mention Snow will likely come back as Azor Ahai reborn.
Jon's wounds smoke while Bowen Marsh cries, providing the prophecised salt, and Ser Patrek's bloody, star laden heraldry is in the air above.
When Melisandre looks into her fires for Azor Ahai, she sees only things to do with Jon or snow, which he thinks must just be ash but she sees a possible connection to Jon.
If having the Blood of the Dragon is a prerequisite, if Jon's father is truly Rhaegar, Jon would satisfy that prerequisite. He would be the grandson of Aerys and Rhaella and thus come from their line.

Also, I think Sam may have seen Lightbringer, or atleast a sword like it in the form of the glass candle at the Citadel.  It was described as being as long as a sword, made out of obsidian (which kills the Others) and has flames coming off of it(which kills the wights), and other powers to see and communicate across the world.  Just a theory, but seemed significant.
 
2014-02-26 04:15:37 PM
Will there be more verses to the Weiners Song?
 
2014-02-26 04:16:00 PM

Cagey B: Yeah, there's that too. Jon WARGING into Ghost has been telegraphed for about 3000 pages now, though. So I feel there's nothing unreasonable about WARG-related speculation about Jon WARGING into Ghost.

WARG.


you know nothing jon snooooooooooooooooooooowarg
 
2014-02-26 04:16:21 PM

Derwood: SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER


But what will they eat?
 
2014-02-26 04:26:08 PM
"Man, those Lannisters are a surly bunch."
 
2014-02-26 04:30:47 PM

kronicfeld: Flab: warg

So tired of reading this word.


If you're tired of warg, you must love trencher.
 
2014-02-26 04:32:21 PM

Confabulat: Derwood: SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER

But what will they eat?


boiled figs and mulled wine
 
2014-02-26 04:32:24 PM

SpdrJay: Will there be more verses to the Weiners Song?


This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0MGmugjxBjg
 
2014-02-26 04:39:13 PM

Shostie: "Exclusive first look?"

Martin's already read three or four chapters at various events.


I'm almost positive I remember seeing a "Here's a chapter about Tyrion from Winds of Winter" posted somewhere quite a long time ago.
 
2014-02-26 04:40:28 PM

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


www.ljplus.ru
 
2014-02-26 04:40:58 PM
Hodor becomes the greatest king Westeros has ever had. Long live King Hodor the Hodor.
 
2014-02-26 04:42:59 PM

Confabulat: Derwood: SPOILER:


They're going to be wearing boiled leather


/SPOILER

But what will they eat?


I don't know but I'm sure it will have an elaborate two paragraph description.
 
2014-02-26 04:45:00 PM
Does anyone else feel that the Others, based on what they have done so far, come off as no worse than most of the regular cast?  Sure they animate the dead to use as soldiers but if Tywinn Lannister could do that he would have in a flash.  Legends from thousands of years ago are not necessarily accurate either.

Although they are generally portrayed as this sort of scary over arching threat now making their move, in general they don't seem any more evil than the Boltons, the Freys, so on and so forth in what they have actually done.
 
2014-02-26 04:45:37 PM

Clash City Farker: error 303: "Also Jaime and Cersei are Targaryans."

They are Lannister twins. Tyrion is Targaryen.


media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-26 04:45:51 PM

Blues_X: RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


He already has an assistant who could finish it up. He co-wrote this (which I liked quite a bit):

[d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net image 301x475]


Just finished the most recent one, love that series so far.

As far as this goes, I'd rather just know the release date so I can read it all at once.  He released sample chapters of Dance with Dragons 5 years before that was published.
 
2014-02-26 04:46:12 PM

Blues_X: RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


He already has an assistant who could finish it up. He co-wrote this (which I liked quite a bit):

[d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net image 301x475]


I don't know if you meant Sanderson or Martin, but...James S.A. Corey is actually Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck, though I believe Martin did serve as a part-time editor.

/also, a 4th book in that trilogy is coming out...so, everything is a series.
 
2014-02-26 04:48:14 PM

proteon: So Tyrion lives through the next few seasons?  Thanks subby


projectfandom.com
 
2014-02-26 04:53:01 PM
Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in case he survives long enough to write some more short stories.

Haven't figured out where Arya and Littlefinger end up, but what do you want for a nickel?
 
2014-02-26 04:58:09 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: That has been my theory too, backed by the fact that martin has always been very vague about Lyanna's death.


It's pretty much an open secret more than a theory.  Pretty sure Martin wanted people to figure that one out fairly easily.

I'm hoping the series will at least have a little of the backstory.  One of my favorite bits in the book is Jojen Reed telling Bran Stark a story referencing the famous Tournament-that-started-all-the-unpleasantness and it going right over the top of Bran's head.
 
2014-02-26 04:59:01 PM

EddieFC: Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.

Unless He somehow manages to get Winds out by the end of the year and I really doubt he will, that's exactly what's going to happen. They will be filming the Feast/Dance season this year, so production wise the show should be caught up or close to it by then.


Martin's publisher has confirmed that Winds is  not going to be out before 2015. As for the show, it's apparently going to take up to three seasons to cover the events of Feast and Dance, giving Martin time to get Winds out, which presumably gives him 3 years from now to finish both remaining books, of which there is no chance in hell.
 
2014-02-26 05:00:21 PM

yelmrog: Copperbelly watersnake: That has been my theory too, backed by the fact that martin has always been very vague about Lyanna's death.

It's pretty much an open secret more than a theory.  Pretty sure Martin wanted people to figure that one out fairly easily.

I'm hoping the series will at least have a little of the backstory.  One of my favorite bits in the book is Jojen Reed telling Bran Stark a story referencing the famous Tournament-that-started-all-the-unpleasantness and it going right over the top of Bran's head.


Martin has pretty much confirmed it.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:13 PM

Gergesa: Does anyone else feel that the Others, based on what they have done so far, come off as no worse than most of the regular cast?  Sure they animate the dead to use as soldiers but if Tywinn Lannister could do that he would have in a flash.  Legends from thousands of years ago are not necessarily accurate either.

Although they are generally portrayed as this sort of scary over arching threat now making their move, in general they don't seem any more evil than the Boltons, the Freys, so on and so forth in what they have actually done.


I am definitely of the opinion that the Others have logical, if misguided, reasons for doing what they are doing.  I also believe that it will be discovered that the First Men and/or Children of the Forest started the war back during the long winter, and were unprepared for the Other's vicious counterattack.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:16 PM
Well, that was a year well spent. Can't wait to read the paragraph he writes during 2014 this time next year. I hope it involved food.

/someone needs to lock him in a room until it's finished...ALL of it.
 
2014-02-26 05:06:32 PM

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.
 
2014-02-26 05:08:49 PM

RTOGUY: I hope Brandon Sanderson has been following the series so he can jump in and finish it.


Sanderson apparently isn't a fan of gore and adult situations. He'd be an awful choice in this case. Joe Abercrombie would be a decent option however.
 
2014-02-26 05:15:09 PM

Non-evil Monkey: I am definitely of the opinion that the Others have logical, if misguided, reasons for doing what they are doing.  I also believe that it will be discovered that the First Men and/or Children of the Forest started the war back during the long winter, and were unprepared for the Other's vicious counterattack.


I was betting on "Eternal struggle between the two deities of Ice and Fire".  I believe Melisandre makes mention of an opposing deity to r'hllor at some point in the series.  It might explain why the seasons are so weird.
 
2014-02-26 05:15:19 PM
Haven't figured out the "raising dragons from stone bit" yet.  It seems to be pretty key, but it's not clear that there need to be more than three dragons.  I mean, the whole bloody continent was conquered with three dragons back in the day.

I'm not sure if this means the statuary at Dragonstone or if it's less literal.  Maybe there are other fossilized dragon eggs somewhere on the western journey?
 
2014-02-26 05:17:05 PM
Floppy wieners, everywhere.
 
2014-02-26 05:17:33 PM
Our children will rebel against us by becoming incredibly boring.
 
2014-02-26 05:19:23 PM

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.


If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.
 
2014-02-26 05:21:30 PM
My hope is that there's more floppy wieners
 
2014-02-26 05:23:27 PM

James Rieper: Haven't figured out the "raising dragons from stone bit" yet.  It seems to be pretty key, but it's not clear that there need to be more than three dragons.  I mean, the whole bloody continent was conquered with three dragons back in the day.

I'm not sure if this means the statuary at Dragonstone or if it's less literal.  Maybe there are other fossilized dragon eggs somewhere on the western journey?


See that passage is only confusing if take you it for granted that Dany isn't AAR which is one mother of an assumption based largely on the argument "its too obvious"
 
2014-02-26 05:28:22 PM

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.


I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go pretend he was a wildling.

I agree that Jon wouldn't forsake his vows to the Watch in order to go off and be king, but I could see a situation in which the Wall falls and the Others start coming south, the realms turn to Jon because he's the only one who's had any success fighting them, and he ends up as king more or less by default.
 
2014-02-26 05:28:47 PM

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


That's my thoughts, too.  Probably many people's.  Of course, at this point I'm fully expecting HBO to pass him up and finish the series first...which I would be completely fine with.
 
2014-02-26 05:30:27 PM

neon_god: EddieFC: Infernalist: It's my sincere hope that the series overtakes the books within a season or two and the HBO writers can end the story properly.

Unless He somehow manages to get Winds out by the end of the year and I really doubt he will, that's exactly what's going to happen. They will be filming the Feast/Dance season this year, so production wise the show should be caught up or close to it by then.

Martin's publisher has confirmed that Winds is  not going to be out before 2015. As for the show, it's apparently going to take up to three seasons to cover the events of Feast and Dance, giving Martin time to get Winds out, which presumably gives him 3 years from now to finish both remaining books, of which there is no chance in hell.


There is no way that Feast/Dance covers three seasons there's just not enough story. Also, The show runners have said they are planning for a total of eight seasons, and they will be filming season 5 this year. I'm guessing we will get the beginnings of Feast/Dance towards the end of this season, then the rest in season five, and seasons 6-8 covering the final 2 books.
 
2014-02-26 05:38:47 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.


Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character.
 
2014-02-26 05:39:33 PM
I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either
 
2014-02-26 05:42:31 PM

ScaryBottles: Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character


technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows (and would his 'brothers' even allow him back as zombie snoooooooooow?) Thats a very stark way of looking at things, i would think.

also i'd personally think that getting freaking shanked to actual death by your own guys is way less of a 'technicallity' than a 'maybe, sorta, probably not' king's decree.
 
2014-02-26 05:51:16 PM

tlchwi02: Thats a very  starkway of looking at things, i would think.


hahaha
 
2014-02-26 05:51:31 PM

SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either


What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.
 
2014-02-26 05:55:02 PM

qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go pretend he w ...


Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.
 
2014-02-26 05:58:26 PM
Thank god I didn't discover this series until the show came out. I'm pissed already that I have to wait so long for it to end, I can't imagine having started reading the damn books 10 years ago.
 
2014-02-26 05:58:30 PM

ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Halfhand to go p ...


I believe he can be released from his oath by the religious leader, forget the title. If he was told it was for  the greater good and people asked him to do it he would give in and become king.
 
2014-02-26 06:00:41 PM

ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.


Married and also a case of the gays.
 
2014-02-26 06:05:04 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in instances like this that I, a Snow hater has more respect for his honor than his fans. If he turned down Stannis's offer to absolve him of his obligations to the watch why would he just turn around and toss away his vows a couple of weeks later? Its just not in his character

technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows (and would his 'brothers' even allow him back as zombie snoooooooooow?) Thats a very stark way of looking at things, i would think.

also i'd personally think that getting freaking shanked to actual death by your own guys is way less of a 'technicallity' than a 'maybe, sorta, probably not' king's decree.


Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.
 
2014-02-26 06:07:13 PM

Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.

Married and also a case of the gays.


I like to think he had more of a Jagger thing going on you know, anything for a laugh.
 
2014-02-26 06:07:47 PM
Dolorous Edd is the last man standing.

The end.
 
2014-02-26 06:11:03 PM

ScaryBottles: Clash City Farker: ScaryBottles: Yeah Snow is willing to bend the rules to ride out and save his favorite little sister. Yes I said bend, he didn't ask or order anyone to help him. so a lapse yes was it treason to me at least, and I'm an avowed Snow hater no. Could I see him pulling a move like that for a throne he has never showed even a passing interested in and isn't really in line for anyway no way. Not for nothing but you guys always seem to ignore the fact that Rhaegar was married when he was conceived.

Married and also a case of the gays.

I like to think he had more of a Jagger thing going on you know, anything for a laugh.


He was as gay as a trencher of floppy wieners. Which is kind of a problem if you think he slept with Lyanna. I always figured we was just a patsy doing his fathers bidding and it was really Aerys that slept with her. But fat boy pretty much admitted it was Rhaegar.

But why would the best King's guard be at the Tower of Joy unless the King himself ordered it?
 
2014-02-26 06:12:51 PM

ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.


even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)
 
2014-02-26 06:18:09 PM

Lothar IB: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

I would posit that you're in good company in this thread ^_^

I don't know about that. Jon's shown himself to be willing to abandoning honor and duty, at least briefly, for the greater good; for instance, I don't think Ned Stark would have killed Qhorin Ha ...


See what you aren't getting is yeah its possible he could be absolved in fact he has already been given the chance but he declined. As far as the "greater good" goes if keeping the North out of the hands of Roose Bolton doesn't represent the "greater good" to you I'm not sure what your idea of the greater good is. Also why is it you think Jon would be a better king than anyone else? He hasn't exactly covered himself in glory as commander of the watch now has he. Lets be realistic here without Stannis the wall would be ice cubes for tubby southron lords by now.
 
2014-02-26 06:22:01 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amuses me that in ...


Yes considering he was leaving the wall to save his "sister."  Abandoning the wall to interfere in the affairs of the "south" goes pretty much counter to what he promised to do. The oath he swore to Mormont and talked to Aemon about. That, of course, is clearly different than when he left the Wall to go join Robb to go south (he did come back).  Reread Aemon's speech about that in the original GoT book. It's quite expansive. If Jon is willing to do it without your "technicality" to save his sister, then I'm pretty sure he'll feel okay about leaving the wall after being stabbed to death by his "brothers."
 
2014-02-26 06:23:56 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.

even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)


If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows. But hey I have my own insane theories so take that for whatever its worth. God I can't believe how often I find myself sticking up for the bastard. Alister Thorne would spit in my mouth.
 
2014-02-26 06:24:58 PM
I honestly dont care what happens anymore...

The story has too many characters and too many threads, and its so goddamn scattered that i cant ever see myself enjoying the conclusion like i thought i would when i started reading. Like 15 farking years ago.

The merennese knot was such a piss in the readers face. Its a polite way to say "I wrote 3 books before i had the ending to my story hammered out" Whups -- you would think an author who had already had 10 years to get PAID thinking about his books WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MORE ABOUT HIS BOOKS.

I can understand some new author doing this, but grrm writes allot.

ASOIAF just reeks of poor planning and plots that have drifted over time because the author never had them hammered out. The same way LOST looked nifty and interesting and half way through things looked messy and then by the end it was a pile of garbage. Remember your p's 'Proper planning prevents piss poor performance'

I am done with trying to 'guess' whats going to happen because
1: I honestly dont think the author himself is that sure...
2: Even if he has half a clue its going to be eons before the books are done so whats the point? Its hard to stay hyped when books are published at a snails pace.
 
2014-02-26 06:25:22 PM

ScaryBottles: If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows.


i think he needs to re-apply at the central office, and thats just a huge pain
 
2014-02-26 06:26:33 PM

legion_of_doo: SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either

What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.


The ingame tutorial freezes, but that's not the point. It's a fascinating game and, you're right, there's tons under the hood and going on. I just need to spend more time with it.

/Maybe it was a mistake trying to make Lord Bolton of the Dreadfort my hero
 
2014-02-26 06:31:53 PM

James Rieper: Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in case he survi ...


Best interpretation I've read (Although I'm not sure what clues say Tyrion is a targaryan).  Otherwise, I love it. Well played and good attention to the clues that lead to these conclusions.
 
2014-02-26 06:36:10 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It super amu ...


Once again I think you're giving him too little credit. He's proud, narcissistic, backward and kinda dumb but he honors his vows. If he was inclined to think about himself at all why didn't he accept Stannis's offer? Literally he would be a few steps below a king warden of the north and heir to his ancestral home but more importantly especially for Jon the name Stark. Literally Stannis offered him everything he could ever wanted and more and he still chose the watch. No Jon Snow wants to be a hero and you can ask Ser Jaime how heroic everyone thinks you are when you break your vows.
 
2014-02-26 06:37:33 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: If death isn't going to keep him from his duty I don't think he's gonna sweat a few moldy undernourished crows.

i think he needs to re-apply at the central office, and thats just a huge pain


Well if thats the case I'd say fark em' too.
 
2014-02-26 06:44:23 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a technicality? It ...


I think you're giving him too much credit. He's literally in the process of breaking his vows for the 2nd time. If he is to be one head of the dragon -- I doubt anyone is disputing that at this point -- he's going to need to be free of his NW vows. Also it's not like any characters have ever had some time of epiphany when faced with a life altering or horrifyingly significant event. Of course there's *zero* chance Jon would come around and say "Man it sucks being stabbed in the back."
 
2014-02-26 06:46:22 PM

bglove25: James Rieper: Jon Snow, Daenerys, and Tyrion are the new dragonriders and fight off the white walkers in the climactic battle for a broken and ruined Westeros.

Jon is Rhaegar's son and Tyrion is Aerys' -- they are all Targaryens. Jon and Daenerys marry, so it's lights out for that idiot she's seeing now. Jon is Azor Ahai, with the bleeding star of the prophecy being the Sword of Morning carried by Arthur Dayne.  It was used in Jon's birth.  Daenerys is the Princess that was Promised.  Tyrion becomes the Hand of the King, again.

Stannis buys it on the wall, breaking the Baretheon power.

Rickon becomes the new Warden of the North when Jon becomes king.  The Wall comes down through an as-yet unforseen circumstance and the Night's Watch is dissolved.  The wildlings take over the territory.

Sansa becomes the new ruler of the Vale and possibly marries another character to cement the final treaties if Tyrion releases her from their union.

Bran becomes the last Greenseer, although it looks like he may start recruiting others.

R'hllor turns out to be more of a "slobbering power-hungry maniac" type of deity.  Turns out the walkers are rising in response to him and the humans are just in the crossfire.  I don't know that we will actually "see" that play out as a POV.  That might be one of those things that is just inferred.

Cersei, the Greyjoys, and the Freys snuff it at various points.  Tommen is no longer the king since he is not the legitmate issue of Robert.  Jamie might stay on the kingsguard if Brienne gets to join. Samwell becomes the new maester of the citadel.

We'll learn more about the magic properties and history of this world as the characters take an extended tangent and proceed further east through Essos.    Howland Reed will show up long enough to make some cool reveals about the tourney of Harrenhal and Jon Snow.  It would be nice if we could learn more about the Doom of Valyria or the tragedy at Summerhall -- but I think Martin is holding on to that in ...


They're aren't any beyond some fan wankery reading way too much into a few lines about his hair color and eyes while completely ignoring absolutely everything said or done by Tywin
 
2014-02-26 06:49:18 PM

SomeoneDumb: legion_of_doo: SomeoneDumb: I'll probably have enough time to figure out how to play the GOT mod for Crusader Kings before anything more gets published.

/Not holding my breath for either

What do you need help with? Incest with siblings? Murdering the pretenders to the throne? Offering prisoners to Rhllor (death by fire is the purest death)? Outing Joffrey as Jaime's son?

Yes, the ingame tutorials stink for CK2, but there is so much stuff under the hood.

The ingame tutorial freezes, but that's not the point. It's a fascinating game and, you're right, there's tons under the hood and going on. I just need to spend more time with it.

/Maybe it was a mistake trying to make Lord Bolton of the Dreadfort my hero


Roose Bolton isnt a bad start because he has a good base & is important (strong)... but i hate the North because it takes forever to get into action unless some minor lord revolts against Robb "i marry for love" Stark. Your only real interest as Lord Bolton is to fight Robb's war, or (more interestingly) take out the Starks and become Lord of the North.

(You can guess what i chose as Roose Bolton)

It is better, in many ways, to not be a Lord Paramount as you learn the game, especially with the size of things (except the Ironborn). The Tullys are in a hard spot, the Lannisters and King Joffrey have the Baratheons AND Robb. The Vale is kind of screwed at the Clash of Kings due to no Jon Arryn, and a minor as Lord Paramount. The thing is, all their bannermen and minor lords are not as cool as Roose Bolton, so playing a power behind the throne kind of sucks. (Walder Frey is a nightmare because of all the children.)

On the other hand, as i recall, Dorne is pretty safe, though, as are the Tyrrells in the Reach. If you want more, and to be closer to the mess in King's Landing, the Reach is something to consider, unleas you actually like the Dorne plotlines...
 
2014-02-26 06:52:37 PM
Be a fun read/watch when Jon goes all skinchanger on a dragon....
 
2014-02-26 06:52:50 PM

tlchwi02: ScaryBottles: Yeah I agree about the shanking but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you and I unlike him don't have a Titan of Bravos sized hard on about our honor. No Snow's place is at the wall whether the rest of the crows like it or not.

even so, the watch is unlikely to let him back in. even assuming they make peace with his status as 'not completely dead,' they certainly aren't going to make peace with him as the leader. and the only thing worse than a deposed warrior with ambition and a grudge is a deposed warrior with ambition, a grudge and the propensity to shrug off succesful assassinations by virtue of divine intervention.

/the reason he will be azor ahai, as opposed to the others that have been brought back is his WARGING will allow his soul to be be in staWARGus and thus will be kept intact (as opposed to losing a bit of yourself each time)


Like I said to a previous poster sorry but you guys have throw out way too many "but ifs" to frame Snow out for AAR where as Dany requires none of that. Its just like Ken Feder says you can turn a rat into a cat if you change a few details but in the end its still a rat.
 
2014-02-26 06:55:04 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his duty on a te ...


Okay I gotta stop you right there, lets leave the heads of the dragon out of this or I'm gonna have to toss out my insane theories.
 
2014-02-26 06:58:21 PM

tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows


And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.
 
2014-02-26 07:00:36 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people would shirk his du ...


Fair enough. There are only a finite number of possibilities for the dragons.

Either way my point stands. Pretty much every major living character with a POV chapter (except maybe Cersei) has had a *major* personality change when faced with a life altering even. Jamie (hand), Sansa ( take your pick), Arya (beheading), Tyrion (take your pick), Theon (rhymes with leek), Bran ( take your pick ), et al.

Jon's life altering event is what, joining the Night's Watch? That didn't really change his personality. He was less of an asshole after Noye told him to change his attitude, but he never really changed who he was. Getting stabbed in the back by your "brothers" is probably going to give him a fresh perspective on things.
 
2014-02-26 07:02:19 PM

kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.


There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?
 
2014-02-26 07:05:25 PM

kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.


It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.
 
2014-02-26 07:07:14 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all people woul ...


It could be as you say, Dondarrion says dying and coming back changes you and if anyone would know. I just still don't see it. Why would a character who has always done the right thing from his perspective no matter what his entire life just suddenly succumb to a fit of selfishness. The only scenario I can see this happening is if Jon turns out to be the KK reborn but I doubt you find that comforting.
 
2014-02-26 07:09:43 PM

legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.


You guys keep circling like this and I'm am gonna have to open up on you with some serious tinfoil shiat.
 
2014-02-26 07:10:16 PM

Flab: My money's on Sansa.
-
- She will warg eventually.


media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2014-02-26 07:11:11 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon Snow of all p ...


What if the "right thing" is the safety of the realm versus his presence on the wall?

The "right' thing is such a vague prediction.
 
2014-02-26 07:11:54 PM

legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.


I think you'll be disappointed, then. GRRM loves to loudly announce a character's true death - Khal Drogo, Dany's unborn child, Arya's butcher boy friend, etc. (I picked examples from the first book in case people haven't read the more recent ones). Jon's was too neatly obscured.

He lives.

img.fark.net

/Bored at work during my lunch hour, so going through the arduous task of re-reading the books
 
2014-02-26 07:12:57 PM

redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?


You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor
 
2014-02-26 07:16:56 PM
And which one of you posted this on Wikipedia:

"On February 26th, 2014, Entertainment Weekly posted a paragraph from a Tyrion chapter on their website, confirming that Martin has written at least five sentences of the book. This news encouraged fans that the book will be released by 2027. "
 
2014-02-26 07:20:04 PM

ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor


If he puts on a funny mask and takes on a mystery name like a luchador, then maybe i will keep reading... but i am tired of Ned 2.5, Jon Snow (with Robb the dull being 2.0).
 
2014-02-26 07:20:35 PM

aevorea: legion_of_doo: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

It would take a giant ass reset button to fix Jon being Caesared (in the et tu sense)... and if/when that happens, i would probably stop reading because the terrible plot will have taken over too much from the horrible characters.

The best thing for my enjoyment would be Jon Snow being really dead, not just mostly dead.

I think you'll be disappointed, then. GRRM loves to loudly announce a character's true death - Khal Drogo, Dany's unborn child, Arya's butcher boy friend, etc. (I picked examples from the first book in case people haven't read the more recent ones). Jon's was too neatly obscured.

He lives.

[img.fark.net image 238x211]

/Bored at work during my lunch hour, so going through the arduous task of re-reading the books


Jon's chapter ending "death" really isn't written much differently than the Hound hitting Arya with an axe at the twins or Catelyn at the twins or when Yoren saved Arya in KL.
 
2014-02-26 07:29:28 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really think Jon ...


Explain why him taking a throne he doesn't want, isn't entitled to, is unqualified to sit on and has at least 3 people with a stronger claim than him would be the right thing ever? King Jon is wishful thinking sorry. Besides, by the end of this who's to say there will even and IT to sit on.
 
2014-02-26 07:31:47 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.

Do you really ...


Who said he'd be the one sitting on the throne and who said there are 3 better claims than him. At the very worst, he probably has the 3rd best claim, maybe 4th assuming Stannis doesn't die.
 
2014-02-26 07:32:38 PM

kronicfeld: Jon wargs into Ghost! Arya wargs into Drogon! Bran wargs into Jaime's severed hand and helps Sandor win CleganeBowl!


s.pikabu.ru
 
2014-02-26 07:39:16 PM

redmid17: Jon's chapter ending "death" really isn't written much differently than the Hound hitting Arya with an axe at the twins or Catelyn at the twins or when Yoren saved Arya in KL.


That's what I meant by 'too neatly obscured' - a scene jump (or, in this case, chapter jump).

I need more caffeine.
 
2014-02-26 07:45:58 PM

Nadie_AZ: Next month, Random House will launch a large update for George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire app. In addition to including many new characters and location descriptions

So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?


The throne is a red herring, it doesn't really matter, once winter comes and the White Walkers start marching south.

Hasn't he released a ton of these preview chapters now? A couple out of context paragraphs out of what's probably going to be a 1000ish page novel, gee, thanks George...
 
2014-02-26 07:46:10 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events of ADWD.
...


Dany first, then Stannis and then Shireen and from there most likely a lesser branch of house Baratheon. Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were. Unless he pulls a Robert he has no claim whatsoever unless legitimized, and not to sound like a broken record he was offered it and declined. When it all comes down to it its not that he can't even, its that he won't. I thought that was what we were discussing if he'll claim the IT.
 
2014-02-26 07:50:44 PM

ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor


If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?
 
2014-02-26 07:53:42 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.

Dragon rider yes, king no. Abandoning his duty is just not in cubby's character. Maybe to save a family member but for his own personal gain I don't see it. Nope he is every bit as brainless as dear old dad. Its like the Tyrion is a secret Targ theories, his defining characteristic is his incredibly abusive relationship with his father. Take that away from them and what are they? I can't stand Snow but he honors his word.

Yeah I'm that gigantic of a nerd.

If he were to pull a Dondarrion per se, he would not have a duty to the Night's Watch. If only there were a red priest anywhere nearby after the events ...


No we were discussing whether or not he would leave the Night's Watch, and obviously claiming the IT would necessitate that. Even if his claim sucks ass, it doesn't really matter if he marries Dany or Shireen know does it?

Frankly the whole "right" to claim the IT is pretty shifty anyway. The Lannisters have no rightful claim to it. The Tyrells are riding on that same train. Euron and Victarion greyjoy want to marry danny, but Euron is more concerned with getting the dragons to dominate Westeros. Littlefinger is clearly angling to get as much power as he can, and the IT is within range. Stannis has a fairly weak claim through his grandmother, and he doesn't have the support nor the military prowess that Robert used to win the throne. Shireen is a female. As soon as she gets married she's not going to have any power.

Dany has a great claim but all females follow male claimants, so fake Aegon may or may not be in front of her. Bastard or not -- we never know if Rhaegar ran off and never eloped or something stupid GRRM might do -- Jon would have at least as much support as Dany.

Basically lineage or claim to the thrown doesn't matter. At this point it's a free-for-all, especially know that even the good Lannisters know that Tommen has no right to the throne.
 
2014-02-26 07:55:37 PM

ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?


He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.
 
2014-02-26 08:02:34 PM

ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?


Zombie Snow would be stupid to call himself Jon, regardless of if he is the true Azor or not.
 
2014-02-26 08:05:53 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.


That one is pretty much has to be Danny, they beat you over the head w/ the fact that the prophesy used the gender neutral word for prince
 
2014-02-26 08:21:47 PM

redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.


Fair dues I am making the assumption the AAR/TPTWP/TLH are all the same person. This may not be the case. My thing is Jon Snow is Jon Snow and thats enough for any character. A force in and of himself, same with Tyrion. They are both great characters and piling hokey plot twists on them just cheapens that. You're basically saying hey forget all the awesome character development and evolution and all the stuff that made you love this guy because the real shiat hasn't even begun! If this were  Shamalan sure but George RR Martin is a little more inventive I think.
 
2014-02-26 08:24:47 PM

HalEmmerich: Nadie_AZ: Next month, Random House will launch a large update for George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire app. In addition to including many new characters and location descriptions

So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

The throne is a red herring, it doesn't really matter, once winter comes and the White Walkers start marching south.

Hasn't he released a ton of these preview chapters now? A couple out of context paragraphs out of what's probably going to be a 1000ish page novel, gee, thanks George...


I think you might be a little fuzzy on the definition of "red herring" did you mean McGuffin? Even then I'd say it was the dragons not the throne.
 
2014-02-26 08:27:26 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: Writers like Martin should be banned from writing anything longer than a trilogy


fat writers?

and by fat I mean really fat
 
2014-02-26 08:54:52 PM
Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.
 
2014-02-26 09:34:46 PM

ScaryBottles: redmid17: ScaryBottles: ShadowKamui: redmid17: kronicfeld: tlchwi02: technically, he would have fullfilled the exact letter of his vows

And who is the omnipotent DM who is going to issue a ruling on that, such that it will be adhered to as absolute truth by anyone in a position to enforce the law against deserting the Wall? Sorry, but Jon and Melisandre saying "Oh, yeah, I was totes dead, but she, like, magic kissed me in the face and now I'm alive again, no worse for the wear, but since I was super-cereal dead, my vows are absolved and I can go be on my merry way. How can you not believe this?" isn't going to keep him from being beheaded as a deserter by anyone who gets the chance.

There are some assumptions there.

1) You make is sound as if no one in the NW is going to see him die
2) If he's going to join up with someone powerful who already offered him a way out of the Night's Watch, who is going to be able to behead him?

You only need #2 if Jon 2.0 sticks around and keeps insisting on being called Jon rather than Azor

If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

He doesn't have to be. He could be the prince who was promised.

Fair dues I am making the assumption the AAR/TPTWP/TLH are all the same person. This may not be the case. My thing is Jon Snow is Jon Snow and thats enough for any character. A force in and of himself, same with Tyrion. They are both great characters and piling hokey plot twists on them just cheapens that. You're basically saying hey forget all the awesome character development and evolution and all the stuff that made you love this guy because the real shiat hasn't even begun! If this were  Shamalan sure but George RR Martin is a little more inventive I think.


Frankly I think the decision to change would make his character development better. He was rejected by most of the Starks. He was rejected (and rejected) the wildlings. The Night's Watch is clearly rejecting him, stabbing and all.  Would it really kill his character to finally find a family that doesn't reject him?

I do agree though that Tyrion is pretty badass in and of himself. You'll also notice that his awesome character is attaching himself to Dany via the Second Sons.
 
2014-02-26 09:42:15 PM

James Rieper: Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.


exept for the fact that its heavily implied tyrion is the epitome of his father tywin...

You guys need to relax. GRRM seems decent at writing politics and subterfuge but every ounce of prophetic crap and everything involving azor and melissandre just reeks of inorganic half thought through garbage. It feels like something thought up half way through.

And the Victarion crap feels like filler. And tyrions adventures on the mainland are sadly reminiscent of harry potter and the deathly hallows 200 page camping trip. And Danny hasnt done anything mildy productive to the plot for 2 books. And Jon Snow tosses everything he learned and that has been impressed on him in the last gazillion pages and goes all potato over his step sister?

AND WTF WAS WITH THE GLASS CANDLE shiat IN OLDTOWN??? LIKE ONE FREAKING ENIGMATIC CHAPTER IN ONE BOOK AND ITS BEEN TIED BACK TO NOTHING.

fark this series. Dont over think it because its damn clear because the authors not.
 
2014-02-26 10:30:29 PM
img.fark.net

It is obvious where this is all going. Rust Cohle realizes he is really a character in a TV show, and finds a way to hop across the DVD collection into Westeros, where he takes up the mantle of the Yellow King.
 
2014-02-26 10:36:17 PM
Fake.  No mention of food in excruciating detail.  There were no trenchers of roasted suckling covered in a glaze of honey and spices.
 
2014-02-26 10:38:52 PM
www.restaurantwidow.com
 
2014-02-26 10:41:21 PM

TV's Vinnie: [www.restaurantwidow.com image 480x434]


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-26 10:48:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Krz-dyD-UQ

Because this is always relevant to GoT.
 
2014-02-26 11:42:25 PM

ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.


No he's not. They got married secretly.
 
2014-02-27 12:36:20 AM

WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.

No he's not. They got married secretly.


Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.
 
2014-02-27 02:10:45 AM

WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.


No he's not. They got married secretly.

Magruda:
WippitGuud: ScaryBottles: Jon is illegitimate it doesn't matter who his parents were.

Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.

imgs.xkcd.com

Apparently its not just for the politics tab anymore.
 
2014-02-27 04:01:50 AM

Tax Boy: Flab: My money's on Sansa.
-
- She will warg eventually.

[media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com image 500x281]


And she knows a wizard

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-27 06:16:04 AM
Take everything I wrote with a grain of salt. I haven't read a word of the books.
 
2014-02-27 07:12:00 AM
You people and your assinine theories.  Obviously, Hodor will end up on the throne.
 
2014-02-27 07:30:24 AM

James Rieper: Bglove25: Tyrion's eyes are heterochromatic in the Targaryen colors. It's a rare genetic trait known in at least one historic T family member.


Tyrion's eyes: one black, one green.

Targaryen colors: black amd red.

Targaryen rraidtional eye color: purple, from the blood of old Valyria.

What are you talking about?
 
2014-02-27 08:14:29 AM

Magruda: Doesn't the book explicitly state that it does not matter if you are illegitimate if you are Targaryen? I remember noting that when I read it.


"Legitimacy" only matters to the extent that other people with power care about such legal fictions. The Supreme Court isn't deciding this.
 
2014-02-27 08:18:36 AM
Is the second eye really black or is it really dark purple?
 
2014-02-27 09:09:33 AM
What I have read about this series caused me to refer to it as "Planet of assholes."
 
2014-02-27 09:14:51 AM

Strega: What I have read about this series caused me to refer to it as "Planet of assholes."


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-27 10:09:33 AM
Blasphemous Knave, you are absolutely correct about the current Targaryen colors, but in the Dance of Dragons the dissident branch of the T's adopted green and yellow for their colors.  They were actually called "the greens."

One of Aegon IV's illegitimate daughters also had heterochromic eyes, one of which was green.  The mad king was a direct descendant of AIV, so he might carry that exceedingly rare trait.

I agree that many characters compare Tyrion to his father, but my guess is that's a head fake.  If you look closer, there's room there for a secret history.

When Tywin quits as Hand, it's because Cersei was denied an engagement to the royal heir and Jamie is put on the Kingsgaurd, denying Tyrion his own choice of successor.  Fair enough, right?  Who wouldn't be pissed?

Now suppose that the mad king is Tyrion's father and Tywin knows it.  He's been sitting on the rage from the loss of his wife and having to raise the king's bastard as his own.  He's not the kind of guy to do that -- so I'm guessing he expected a big ticket item in exchange, like the betrothal of his daughter to the heir.  Over the course of years, the mad king not only doesn't comply but also outmaneuvers Tywin to force the heir of Casterly Rock to be his own bastard.  Tyrion finally leaves and is waiting for the opportunity for a military response when the Rebellion breaks out.  Is it any wonder that he's willing to kill the mad king's heirs?

At the time of Cersei's first attempted betrothal she would have been 11-12, like a year and change after Tyion's birth.  Tywin persisted in this for about five years, only stopping when Rhaegar is married and Jaime joined the Kingsgaurd. I'm a little fuzzy on whether Rhaegar married Elia before or after Jamie joined the gaurd, but it would have happened at roughly the same time. (In any case the announcement, not the actual ceremony, would have been the tipping point.)  The rebellion broke out about a year after Jaime joined.

So in the meantime, there is lots of ambiguous stuff.  Genna Lannister tells Tywin that Tyrion is a lot like him, then Tywin won't speak to her for six months.  Makes sense on its own, but makes even more sense if you have this larger backstory going.  Tywin's last words make sense on their own, but make even more sense this way.

It's just a theory.  That's one of the fun parts of these epics.  Some things you can see a long way off, other things just run up and surprise you.
 
2014-02-27 10:56:47 AM

James Rieper: Blasphemous Knave, you are absolutely correct about the current Targaryen colors, but in the Dance of Dragons the dissident branch of the T's adopted green and yellow for their colors.  They were actually called "the greens."

One of Aegon IV's illegitimate daughters also had heterochromic eyes, one of which was green.  The mad king was a direct descendant of AIV, so he might carry that exceedingly rare trait.

I agree that many characters compare Tyrion to his father, but my guess is that's a head fake.  If you look closer, there's room there for a secret history.

When Tywin quits as Hand, it's because Cersei was denied an engagement to the royal heir and Jamie is put on the Kingsgaurd, denying Tyrion his own choice of successor.  Fair enough, right?  Who wouldn't be pissed?

Now suppose that the mad king is Tyrion's father and Tywin knows it.  He's been sitting on the rage from the loss of his wife and having to raise the king's bastard as his own.  He's not the kind of guy to do that -- so I'm guessing he expected a big ticket item in exchange, like the betrothal of his daughter to the heir.  Over the course of years, the mad king not only doesn't comply but also outmaneuvers Tywin to force the heir of Casterly Rock to be his own bastard.  Tyrion finally leaves and is waiting for the opportunity for a military response when the Rebellion breaks out.  Is it any wonder that he's willing to kill the mad king's heirs?

At the time of Cersei's first attempted betrothal she would have been 11-12, like a year and change after Tyion's birth.  Tywin persisted in this for about five years, only stopping when Rhaegar is married and Jaime joined the Kingsgaurd. I'm a little fuzzy on whether Rhaegar married Elia before or after Jamie joined the gaurd, but it would have happened at roughly the same time. (In any case the announcement, not the actual ceremony, would have been the tipping point.)  The rebellion broke out about a year after Jaime joined.

So in the meantime, the ...


The word "greens" doesn't show up in ADWD and I only found references to Aegon wearing black and red, not green and yellow. Shiera Seastar did have the same color eyes as Tyrion. Rhaegar married Elia and had two kids with her by the time that Jamie joined the Kingsguard at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Aerys refused the offer from Tywin five years earlier at the Tourney at Lannisport.

My biggest issue with the whole Tyrion as a Targaryan theory is just the location aspect. We know that Aerys liked Joanna a lot as a prince and took certain liberties during the bedding ceremony, but that timing is all wrong for Tyrion's birth. After that there's no evidence of Joanna leaving Casterly Rock for KL, and Aerys only left KL after Tyrian was born. Quite the opposite actually for Joanna as we know she was at Casterly Rock to place Jamie's bed chambers on the other side of the castle right before she gave birth to Tyrion.
 
2014-02-27 11:08:32 AM

James Rieper: Blasphemous Knave, you are absolutely correct about the current Targaryen colors, but in the Dance of Dragons the dissident branch of the T's adopted green and yellow for their colors.  They were actually called "the greens."

One of Aegon IV's illegitimate daughters also had heterochromic eyes, one of which was green.  The mad king was a direct descendant of AIV, so he might carry that exceedingly rare trait.

I agree that many characters compare Tyrion to his father, but my guess is that's a head fake.  If you look closer, there's room there for a secret history.

When Tywin quits as Hand, it's because Cersei was denied an engagement to the royal heir and Jamie is put on the Kingsgaurd, denying Tyrion his own choice of successor.  Fair enough, right?  Who wouldn't be pissed?

Now suppose that the mad king is Tyrion's father and Tywin knows it.  He's been sitting on the rage from the loss of his wife and having to raise the king's bastard as his own.  He's not the kind of guy to do that -- so I'm guessing he expected a big ticket item in exchange, like the betrothal of his daughter to the heir.  Over the course of years, the mad king not only doesn't comply but also outmaneuvers Tywin to force the heir of Casterly Rock to be his own bastard.  Tyrion finally leaves and is waiting for the opportunity for a military response when the Rebellion breaks out.  Is it any wonder that he's willing to kill the mad king's heirs?

At the time of Cersei's first attempted betrothal she would have been 11-12, like a year and change after Tyion's birth.  Tywin persisted in this for about five years, only stopping when Rhaegar is married and Jaime joined the Kingsgaurd. I'm a little fuzzy on whether Rhaegar married Elia before or after Jamie joined the gaurd, but it would have happened at roughly the same time. (In any case the announcement, not the actual ceremony, would have been the tipping point.)  The rebellion broke out about a year after Jaime joined.

So in the meantime, the ...


And Tywin who does all sorts of horrible things to every other person out there doesn't drown the one who he would hate the most?  Absolutely everything Tywin did to Tyrion no longer becomes a horrible father who hates his deformed son, to some passive aggressive cockold who is too weak willed to go through killing his fake son.
 
2014-02-27 11:47:42 AM
The word "greens" doesn't show up in ADWD and I only found references to Aegon wearing black and red, not green and yellow. Shiera Seastar did have the same color eyes as Tyrion. Rhaegar married Elia and had two kids with her by the time that Jamie joined the Kingsguard at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Aerys refused the offer from Tywin five years earlier at the Tourney at Lannisport.

My biggest issue with the whole Tyrion as a Targaryan theory is just the location aspect. We know that Aerys liked Joanna a lot as a prince and took certain liberties during the bedding ceremony, but that timing is all wrong for Tyrion's birth. After that there's no evidence of Joanna leaving Casterly Rock for KL, and Aerys only left KL after Tyrian was born. Quite the opposite actually for Joanna as we know she was at Casterly Rock to place Jamie's bed chambers on the other side of the castle right before she gave birth to Tyrion.


I mean the "Dance of Dragons" that is the historical civil war in this mythology.  The book is named after that event.  Blacks vs. Greens, winner take all.

Seastar has the eye trait, but doesn't do much else in the history.  It's her dad's genes that I'm interested in.

You're totally right to bring up the location thing, but my sense of it is that we don't know where JoAnna was.  If the mad king had sex with her (of whatever type or frequency), it would make sense that she would leave or that Tywin would send her away --- immediately if it was rape, or after she began to show if it was some other circumstance.

A bigger question would be, why would Tywin let the baby live?  The answer would be he now has an heir to the throne directly under his control.  Even if Tyrion's claim is really tenuous, that's a big deal.

It would also explain why Tywin freaked out when Tyrion married the first time.  He's not just marrying below Lannister standards, but below royal standards.  His marriage vow could literally be worth a fifth of Westeros, but that's out the window if he's already married.  It would also partly explain why Tywin had Tysha gang raped.  No surviving issue could be directly attributed to Tyrion as another heir to the throne.

On the timing, some of these things are ambiguous.  Tywin was initially refused on Cersei, but he continued to approach the king for years.  The timing of Rhaegar's marriage seems a little later than you put it.  The Rebellion lasted like a year and change to two years.  If his son by Elia is a "babe" and breast feeding at the time of the sack of King's Landing, he would have been conceived shortly before the Rebellion broke out.  I'm a little fuzzy on the older sister, but if she was about four or five at the sack of KL, that would mean she was conceived at about the time Tywin left or shortly afterwards.

Something else to think about is why the mad king would have opened the gates to Tywin at the start of the sack.  Pycelle likes to think he convinced the king that Tywin was coming to his aid, but that doesn't make sense.  If you knocked up a guy's wife, would he be coming to save you?  Not this guy, for sure.  If you notice though, the king doesn't say "Open the gates. We're saved!" Instead he says "Open the gates and start napalming everything!"   He wanted Tywin and his army to enter the city and get destroyed with him as one last personal "fark you."
 
2014-02-27 11:56:58 AM

James Rieper: The word "greens" doesn't show up in ADWD and I only found references to Aegon wearing black and red, not green and yellow. Shiera Seastar did have the same color eyes as Tyrion. Rhaegar married Elia and had two kids with her by the time that Jamie joined the Kingsguard at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Aerys refused the offer from Tywin five years earlier at the Tourney at Lannisport.

My biggest issue with the whole Tyrion as a Targaryan theory is just the location aspect. We know that Aerys liked Joanna a lot as a prince and took certain liberties during the bedding ceremony, but that timing is all wrong for Tyrion's birth. After that there's no evidence of Joanna leaving Casterly Rock for KL, and Aerys only left KL after Tyrian was born. Quite the opposite actually for Joanna as we know she was at Casterly Rock to place Jamie's bed chambers on the other side of the castle right before she gave birth to Tyrion.

I mean the "Dance of Dragons" that is the historical civil war in this mythology.  The book is named after that event.  Blacks vs. Greens, winner take all.

Seastar has the eye trait, but doesn't do much else in the history.  It's her dad's genes that I'm interested in.

You're totally right to bring up the location thing, but my sense of it is that we don't know where JoAnna was.  If the mad king had sex with her (of whatever type or frequency), it would make sense that she would leave or that Tywin would send her away --- immediately if it was rape, or after she began to show if it was some other circumstance.

A bigger question would be, why would Tywin let the baby live?  The answer would be he now has an heir to the throne directly under his control.  Even if Tyrion's claim is really tenuous, that's a big deal.

It would also explain why Tywin freaked out when Tyrion married the first time.  He's not just marrying below Lannister standards, but below royal standards.  His marriage vow could literally be worth a fifth of Westeros, but that's out the window ...


A bastard is not a heir to the throne unless legitimized (ala Blackfrye).  "rape baby" would have been thrown down the well w/o a second thought
 
2014-02-27 12:02:16 PM

James Rieper: The word "greens" doesn't show up in ADWD and I only found references to Aegon wearing black and red, not green and yellow. Shiera Seastar did have the same color eyes as Tyrion. Rhaegar married Elia and had two kids with her by the time that Jamie joined the Kingsguard at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Aerys refused the offer from Tywin five years earlier at the Tourney at Lannisport.

My biggest issue with the whole Tyrion as a Targaryan theory is just the location aspect. We know that Aerys liked Joanna a lot as a prince and took certain liberties during the bedding ceremony, but that timing is all wrong for Tyrion's birth. After that there's no evidence of Joanna leaving Casterly Rock for KL, and Aerys only left KL after Tyrian was born. Quite the opposite actually for Joanna as we know she was at Casterly Rock to place Jamie's bed chambers on the other side of the castle right before she gave birth to Tyrion.

I mean the "Dance of Dragons" that is the historical civil war in this mythology.  The book is named after that event.  Blacks vs. Greens, winner take all.

Seastar has the eye trait, but doesn't do much else in the history.  It's her dad's genes that I'm interested in.

You're totally right to bring up the location thing, but my sense of it is that we don't know where JoAnna was.  If the mad king had sex with her (of whatever type or frequency), it would make sense that she would leave or that Tywin would send her away --- immediately if it was rape, or after she began to show if it was some other circumstance.

A bigger question would be, why would Tywin let the baby live?  The answer would be he now has an heir to the throne directly under his control.  Even if Tyrion's claim is really tenuous, that's a big deal.

It would also explain why Tywin freaked out when Tyrion married the first time.  He's not just marrying below Lannister standards, but below royal standards.  His marriage vow could literally be worth a fifth of Westeros, but that's out the window ...


1) When Tyrion marries Tysha, he sees him repeating his father mistake. The mistake he had whipped and run naked through Lannisport.
2) He doesn't kill Tyrion because he is his son. Tywin wouldn't care about killing a possible bastard child of Aerys. At that point, there were at least 5 heirs in line before him, had he been legitimized.
3) I could see him wanting to take Tywin out, but according to Jamie he didn't give the order to blow KL or bring him Tywin's head until hours after the sack started. If he truly wanted Tywin to be suckered in to die, he wouldn't have given both orders.
4) We don't know exactly where Joanna was that entire time, but it makes far more sense than she was at Casterly Rock taking care of small children while Tywin was at KL with Aerys. Tywin brought Cersei to court as soon as she was ready, and Jamie became a page under Crakehall a bit earlier. This was before Cersei was turned down. One of the parents would have stayed behind or they both would have been in KL with the twins.
 
2014-02-27 12:44:35 PM
Who will sail where?
Who will walk where?
Who will eat what foods???
Find out in the next Ice and Fire book!
 
2014-02-27 01:13:54 PM
A bastard is not a heir to the throne unless legitimized (ala Blackfrye).  "rape baby" would have been thrown down the well w/o a second thought

I agree . . . unless there are no other heirs in the way.  So Tywin keeps Tyrion in his back pocket.  Then the first thing he does after Rhaegar dies is kill all the heirs he can lay his hands on.  The last two are in exile -- a threat, but out of consideration for the throne.

Ultimately though, he never has to play the Tyrion card, which you correctly point out is tenuous.  Even if you put a fig leaf on his legitimacy, he'd have him marry someone from one of the winning houses.  Like that's not going to cause a fight.

Just look at the hoops Robert has to go through to prove his blood is good enough!  My grannie was married to a fella that once knew the king's horse . . .  Tyrion's claim could go toe-to-toe with that if he was backed by the Lannister army.

Tywin gets a better foothold when Robert marries Cersei.  His grandkids get a 100% legit path to the crown without a battle.  So Tywin spends the rest of the War of the Five Kings putting Tyrion in high-risk situations to get rid of him.  But the imp just will not die.

I agree that Joanna's location is a hole in this, but we don't know where she was or why.  What you guys are saying makes sense, but that is what is going to make this a twist -- it's an unexpected curve against the lines of the previous plot.  It wouldn't take much to detour her and the kids to the court for a visit, or a wedding, or whatever bit of exposition.

Are you guys buying into the Young Griff subplot?  That guy is going to bite it hard.  He's a total red herring.
 
2014-02-27 01:33:20 PM
I think he is a Targ, Rheagar's son, real enough. But I also think Jon, Tyrion and Danny are from Aery's loins, so he doesn't have a direct claim to the Throne. He is PP.

Aerys and Rhaegar were both doing their own thing to make the prophecies come to life. But The Dragon has Three heads to me means they all come from Aerys.
 
2014-02-27 01:43:29 PM
The other thing is, Tyrion is a Chimera (look it up). At one point Tywin say "I cannot prove you are not my son".
 
2014-02-27 01:46:17 PM

James Rieper: A bastard is not a heir to the throne unless legitimized (ala Blackfrye).  "rape baby" would have been thrown down the well w/o a second thought

I agree . . . unless there are no other heirs in the way.  So Tywin keeps Tyrion in his back pocket.  Then the first thing he does after Rhaegar dies is kill all the heirs he can lay his hands on.  The last two are in exile -- a threat, but out of consideration for the throne.

Ultimately though, he never has to play the Tyrion card, which you correctly point out is tenuous.  Even if you put a fig leaf on his legitimacy, he'd have him marry someone from one of the winning houses.  Like that's not going to cause a fight.

Just look at the hoops Robert has to go through to prove his blood is good enough!  My grannie was married to a fella that once knew the king's horse . . .  Tyrion's claim could go toe-to-toe with that if he was backed by the Lannister army.

Tywin gets a better foothold when Robert marries Cersei.  His grandkids get a 100% legit path to the crown without a battle.  So Tywin spends the rest of the War of the Five Kings putting Tyrion in high-risk situations to get rid of him.  But the imp just will not die.

I agree that Joanna's location is a hole in this, but we don't know where she was or why.  What you guys are saying makes sense, but that is what is going to make this a twist -- it's an unexpected curve against the lines of the previous plot.  It wouldn't take much to detour her and the kids to the court for a visit, or a wedding, or whatever bit of exposition.

Are you guys buying into the Young Griff subplot?  That guy is going to bite it hard.  He's a total red herring.


Look even if he killed all the heirs, and he didn't, a bastard child still would not have had any better claim. The Baratheons were the only others directly descended from the main line of the Targaryans as well. The next claim would have fallen to Robert and his children, Stannis and Shireen, and so on assuming that Visersys and Dany had gone under.

Tywin clearly wanted power and would have seized the throne if there was a power vacuum. The benefits he'd get from having a bastard, dwarf Targaryan instead of just seizing the throne for himself would have been completely minimal. Why have a puppet with no actual claim, especially when the bastard reminds you that your beloved wife was raped by someone you hated and died during his birth, when you can just sit their and guarantee your family's legacy? Also if Tywin had been deadset on exterminating the Targaryans, he'd have sent his fleet and some men to invade Dragonstone when he found out that Aery's still living children had left the capital, which Pycelle would have told them.

Aegon VI is probably going to die, but I think he's a Blackfyre if he's a Targaryan at all.
 
2014-02-27 01:54:57 PM

Clash City Farker: The other thing is, Tyrion is a Chimera (look it up). At one point Tywin say "I cannot prove you are not my son".


Yeah and that's worthless because Tywin also says "You are my son" and "You are not my son" at various points in the series.

Clash City Farker: I think he is a Targ, Rheagar's son, real enough. But I also think Jon, Tyrion and Danny are from Aery's loins, so he doesn't have a direct claim to the Throne. He is PP.

Aerys and Rhaegar were both doing their own thing to make the prophecies come to life. But The Dragon has Three heads to me means they all come from Aerys.


At what point would Aerys have impregnated anyone with Jon? We know Ned took him home. Aerys hadn't left KL since the Tourney at Harrenhal, and Rhaegar left with Lyanna for the ToJ a short time after that. There's a distinct lack of contact between the Lyanna and Aerys. There doesn't seem to have been any contact between Aerys and Ashara Dayne. Selmy would have noted that relationship in his introspective on Ashara Dayne, given that he was the LC of the KG for Aerys.

Frankly I'd believe that Jon was the bastard of the fisherman's daughter theory before I believed he was Aerys' son.
 
2014-02-27 02:08:09 PM
We are led to believe that Rhaegar took her directly to the Tower of Joy. But, I think she was sent there partly to be safe because KL was in trouble and also to give birth. Rhaegar was down south with his boy friend. At one point Aerys laments "where is Rheagar?" This also implies he was at KL at least part of the time since the 'kidnapping'.

Rhaegar races north to fight Robert and die on the Trident, but he stops first at ToJ. The Kings Guard is there guarding Lyanna. Since there are 18 months at least since her disappearance and the end of the war, there is plenty of time where we do not know where she was.
 
2014-02-27 02:15:20 PM

Clash City Farker: We are led to believe that Rhaegar took her directly to the Tower of Joy. But, I think she was sent there partly to be safe because KL was in trouble and also to give birth. Rhaegar was down south with his boy friend. At one point Aerys laments "where is Rheagar?" This also implies he was at KL at least part of the time since the 'kidnapping'.

Rhaegar races north to fight Robert and die on the Trident, but he stops first at ToJ. The Kings Guard is there guarding Lyanna. Since there are 18 months at least since her disappearance and the end of the war, there is plenty of time where we do not know where she was.


And no evidence that she was ever at KL, like not even the slightest. We know she was promised to Robert before the tournament and was in WF till then. Robert was in the Vale at the time. Given that Brandon found out about the kidnapping on the way to his own wedding at Riverrun, she was probably either on her way to RR or at RR when she was "kidnapped" or joined Rhaegar and ran off.
 
2014-02-27 02:20:38 PM

Strega: What I have read about this series caused me to refer to it as "Planet of assholes."


www.troll.me

You're about a day and a half late to the party kitty cat.
 
2014-02-27 04:19:56 PM
Also if Tywin had been deadset on exterminating the Targaryans, he'd have sent his fleet and some men to invade Dragonstone when he found out that Aery's still living children had left the capital, which Pycelle would have told them.

True, but the deaths of the existing heirs were a conscience-shocking event.  Tywin barely got away with it.

Marking the remaining heirs for assassination even years later was controversial, and at that point they were no longer children.  That was as far as Tywin could push his hand.
 
2014-02-27 04:56:15 PM

James Rieper: Also if Tywin had been deadset on exterminating the Targaryans, he'd have sent his fleet and some men to invade Dragonstone when he found out that Aery's still living children had left the capital, which Pycelle would have told them.

True, but the deaths of the existing heirs were a conscience-shocking event.  Tywin barely got away with it.

Marking the remaining heirs for assassination even years later was controversial, and at that point they were no longer children.  That was as far as Tywin could push his hand.


Tywin barely got away with it? Robert smiled when Tywin handed him the babies. Notice Tywin didn't present them to Ned or Jon but everyone. They knew Robert was going to be king. All it cost Tywin was the emnity of Ned Stark. Robert *agreed* that the heirs needed to die, just didn't want to do it himself. Robert wanted Viserys and Dany dead too, but Stannis needed to build a fleet to take Dragonstone and they'd left by then.

No one gave 2 shiats about Viserys being marked for death, if he actually was. He seemed to think that Robert had paid assassins to kill them, but I don't remember anything from any POV aside from his mentioning some type of assassination until Dany is pregnant. Viserys was the beggar king, and would have been a bad one at that. He was definitely his father's son. The only people who objected when Robert was talking about killing Dany were Ned and Barristan. LF, Pycelle, Renly, Varys, and Robert all thought it was a good idea. I don't know where Stannis would have stood on it but would have gone along with it if ordered. He did when he invaded Dragonstone.
 
2014-02-27 07:04:47 PM

qorkfiend: Flab: kronicfeld: Nadie_AZ: So ... another 1000 pages til we find out that none of the characters from book 1 will take the throne?

No one will take the throne. The realm will be fractured into different autonomous territories with an uneasy ceasefire, like it was before the Targaryens arrived.

My money's on Sansa.
- True heir to the north (Assuming Rickon doesn't reappear)
- Soon to be wed to the heir to the vale
- Also currently pretending to be the daughter of the lord of Harrenhall.
- Not doing anything to actually want the job, therefore not in any risk of losing her head, like her dad, brother and (almost) mom.
- A "natural" politician, in the eyes of many, currently in close contact with the best.
- She will warg eventually.

Nope. Jon Snow will eventually emerge as the king. My working theory is that Jon is actually the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark; Ned took him in and told everyone Jon was his bastard to protect him from King Robert, who would have had him killed ("Promise me, Ned"; the promise was to protect the newborn Jon after Lyanna died in childbirth).

Much like Sansa, he's already wargin', he's a natural politician and leader, and he's not doing anything to actually want the job.


This.

I am amazed there are people who have read the book and haven't figured out that Jon Snow is the child of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, and that he is Azor Ahai. It's not exactly subtly foreshadowed. The books directly smack you right in the face with these facts. Like when the red woman says to Jon something to the effect "I keep looking into the fire to see visions of Stannis the hero, but all I see if you".
 
2014-02-27 07:27:10 PM

mikefinch: AND WTF WAS WITH THE GLASS CANDLE


The glass candle is Azor Ahai's sword, Lightbringer.
 
2014-02-27 07:29:02 PM

ScaryBottles: If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?


"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow" -Melisandre

He's AAR. Unless R'hllor really likes messing with his priestess.
 
2014-02-27 10:00:42 PM

Thrag: ScaryBottles: If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow" -Melisandre

He's AAR. Unless R'hllor really likes messing with his priestess.


No you think he's AAR. Until you read it on the page its a theory and one predicated largely on the argument "Dany is just too obvious" and literally nothing else except the ramblings a crazy witch who we know already is demonstrably wrong about loads of stuff. Did it ever occur that maybe the flames were trying to warn her of her impending danger if Snow is killed or otherwise taken out of the picture? What is it she says is the first the flames always show her? Maybe you can remind me. Also not for nothing Mel is wrong like a lot.... like a really lot. Like I said to a previous poster write down a pro/con list for Dany and Jon and Stannis if you're really that dim. Afterword count how many times you had to write the words "but if" for each to make them fit the prophesy. Do that and then think about your theory again.
 
2014-02-27 10:32:02 PM

ScaryBottles: Thrag: ScaryBottles: If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow" -Melisandre

He's AAR. Unless R'hllor really likes messing with his priestess.

No you think he's AAR. Until you read it on the page its a theory and one predicated largely on the argument "Dany is just too obvious" and literally nothing else except the ramblings a crazy witch who we know already is demonstrably wrong about loads of stuff. Did it ever occur that maybe the flames were trying to warn her of her impending danger if Snow is killed or otherwise taken out of the picture? What is it she says is the first the flames always show her? Maybe you can remind me. Also not for nothing Mel is wrong like a lot.... like a really lot. Like I said to a previous poster write down a pro/con list for Dany and Jon and Stannis if you're really that dim. Afterword count how many times you had to write the words "but if" for each to make them fit the prophesy. Do that and then think about your theory again.


One other possibility is that Gendry is Azor Ahai.  AA not only is supposed to pull the flaming sword from from the fire, he's the one who forges the sword in the first place.  Who else do we know who can forge a sword?  This also makes Mel's guess that it's Stannis just a near miss instead of being completely wrong, since Gendry is Stannis' nephew.  AA is supposed to be born amidst smoke and salt which sounds like a sweaty blacksmith's shop.  Gendry is 1/2 Baratheon and 1/8th Targaryen, making him a good candidate for kingship.  He just needs to be legitimized.  Then again, we know absolutely nothing about his mother.  It's interesting that on the TV show, Cersei tells Catelyn that before Joffrey was born, Cersei first gave birth to a little black haired boy whom she claims died shortly thereafter.  Or so she says.
 
2014-02-27 11:26:18 PM

Persnickety: ScaryBottles: Thrag: ScaryBottles: If Snow is AAR. Did it ever occur to you he might mot be?

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow" -Melisandre

He's AAR. Unless R'hllor really likes messing with his priestess.

No you think he's AAR. Until you read it on the page its a theory and one predicated largely on the argument "Dany is just too obvious" and literally nothing else except the ramblings a crazy witch who we know already is demonstrably wrong about loads of stuff. Did it ever occur that maybe the flames were trying to warn her of her impending danger if Snow is killed or otherwise taken out of the picture? What is it she says is the first the flames always show her? Maybe you can remind me. Also not for nothing Mel is wrong like a lot.... like a really lot. Like I said to a previous poster write down a pro/con list for Dany and Jon and Stannis if you're really that dim. Afterword count how many times you had to write the words "but if" for each to make them fit the prophesy. Do that and then think about your theory again.

One other possibility is that Gendry is Azor Ahai.  AA not only is supposed to pull the flaming sword from from the fire, he's the one who forges the sword in the first place.  Who else do we know who can forge a sword?  This also makes Mel's guess that it's Stannis just a near miss instead of being completely wrong, since Gendry is Stannis' nephew.  AA is supposed to be born amidst smoke and salt which sounds like a sweaty blacksmith's shop.  Gendry is 1/2 Baratheon and 1/8th Targaryen, making him a good candidate for kingship.  He just needs to be legitimized.  Then again, we know absolutely nothing about his mother.  It's interesting that on the TV show, Cersei tells Catelyn that before Joffrey was born, Cersei first gave birth to a little black haired boy whom she claims died shortly thereafter.  Or so she says.


Well as I said until I read it on a page I only think its Dany theres no way to know. I don't know maybe I am a nut but I drove to NM to attend one of his signings and one thing he said that floored me was that he didn't initially intend for there to be dragons in the story and that his wife had browbeat him into it. The only dragons he had planned on were the targs. I of course came to find out later that this was old news on the boards wonk wonk! But anyway the reason I mention this is because a lot of people really can't get their minds around the cliche fantasy tropes and keep trying to make this whole series more traditional high fantasy than it is. How many times has Martin said he wants to write a real story. He means it and thats what a lot of people seem to "know" but they still don't get it. In the real world if you find a bloody pipe in a dude's car chances are you just found the dude who bludgeoned someone to death earlier. Not the Bludgeoner's sister's cousin's uncles former pool boy twice removed. Dany fits what the general consensus of online fans consider to be genuine clues without any twisting necessary where as every other candidate requires you to massive leaps of logic to fit. Every other candidate without exception. So yes it could be Gendry but I really don't think its very likely. But hey as I said till we see it on the page we don't really know. Besides yours is far from the craziest theory I've heard. Thats where I start lashing out is when people, and not point fingers but there are tons in the Jon Snow fan club who like to pretend their theories are established fact. No lie I literally saw one of them claim that they were right about a character's real motivations (Darkstar) and the direct verbatim quote from Martin that had indeed been the reason for the thread to begin with was wrong. Bible farking truth. Westeros.org is a strange and savage place. If you think the politics tab are here gets nuts check those guys out sometime.
 
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