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(Fox News)   Foundation for Individual Rights in Education helps CA college student win free speech case. But you still can't call out its acronym in a crowded theater   (foxnews.com) divider line 95
    More: Ironic, free speech zone, organizations, Individual and group rights, lessons, Young Americans for Liberty  
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1142 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Feb 2014 at 10:55 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 09:16:23 AM
Automatic HOTY candidacy, right there.
 
2014-02-26 11:01:20 AM
The Joker did.
 
2014-02-26 11:05:15 AM
Smells like bullshiat. Organizations like this one have been fronts for trying to gag liberal professors and help conservative teachers and students get away with all kinds of blatantly unfair shiat for several years now. Anyone know what the actual story is here?
 
2014-02-26 11:05:45 AM
And another ambulance-chasing O'Queefe AW'ing clone is molded.
 
2014-02-26 11:07:09 AM
Actually you could sorta... Schenck vs. United States was partially overturned, IIRC.
 
2014-02-26 11:08:31 AM

RanDomino: Smells like bullshiat. Organizations like this one have been fronts for trying to gag liberal professors and help conservative teachers and students get away with all kinds of blatantly unfair shiat for several years now. Anyone know what the actual story is here?


I came here to say this. The source makes the story extra suspect. I mean, would FN even be reporting on this if it was, say, some liberal student who was just passing out copies of the Constitution?

/to the Google!
 
2014-02-26 11:11:21 AM

Arkanaut: Actually you could sorta... Schenck vs. United States was partially overturned, IIRC.


I'm pretty sure it's only falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater is banned.
 
2014-02-26 11:12:04 AM

RanDomino: Smells like bullshiat. Organizations like this one have been fronts for trying to gag liberal professors and help conservative teachers and students get away with all kinds of blatantly unfair shiat for several years now. Anyone know what the actual story is here?


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-02-26 11:12:38 AM
Oy, again, people:  You CAN shout fire in a crowded theater.  Perfectly ok.  Nothing wrong with it, in fact, it's encouraged.*

*When there's a fire.
 
2014-02-26 11:13:22 AM

pueblonative: Arkanaut: Actually you could sorta... Schenck vs. United States was partially overturned, IIRC.

I'm pretty sure it's only falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater is banned.


It isnt even banned.  It is just recognized that a 1st amendment defense is not going to fly when you get charged with about 20 different public endagerment statutes.
 
2014-02-26 11:14:08 AM
What a sanctimonious asshole.

Was the school in the wrong? Yes. But, this guy got free legal representation, and the school caved.

What pisses me off is the $50,000 settlement. Community Colleges typically have very tight budgets. To prove a point, this asshole has taken money away from providing education that allows people to better their lives. I would say taking the money actually lessens his cause because it makes it seem like he was just looking for a jackpot.

Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them. Taking courses at my CC allowed me to change from being a cashier to having a real career by learning marketable skills in less than 2 years with no debts.Currently my local community college is cutting backprogramsbecause of budget shortfalls; a 50K loss would be a significant blow to the school. I'm sure this is taking money away from Modesto Community College that could be used to educate students.
 
2014-02-26 11:16:07 AM
 
2014-02-26 11:17:35 AM

RanDomino: Smells like bullshiat. Organizations like this one have been fronts for trying to gag liberal professors and help conservative teachers and students get away with all kinds of blatantly unfair shiat for several years now. Anyone know what the actual story is here?


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-26 11:18:22 AM

RanDomino: "He has also appeared on various news shows, including Stossel on more than one occasion."  (the FIRE guy, not Van Tuinen)


Yep, that's no real big surprise.
 
2014-02-26 11:18:23 AM

manbart: What a sanctimonious asshole.

Was the school in the wrong? Yes. But, this guy got free legal representation, and the school caved.

What pisses me off is the $50,000 settlement. Community Colleges typically have very tight budgets. To prove a point, this asshole has taken money away from providing education that allows people to better their lives. I would say taking the money actually lessens his cause because it makes it seem like he was just looking for a jackpot.

Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them. Taking courses at my CC allowed me to change from being a cashier to having a real career by learning marketable skills in less than 2 years with no debts.Currently my local community college is cutting backprogramsbecause of budget shortfalls; a 50K loss would be a significant blow to the school. I'm sure this is taking money away from Modesto Community College that could be used to educate students.


The only way to make an organization change is by going after their wallet.
 
2014-02-26 11:20:19 AM

manbart: What a sanctimonious asshole.

Was the school in the wrong? Yes. But, this guy got free legal representation, and the school caved.

What pisses me off is the $50,000 settlement. Community Colleges typically have very tight budgets. To prove a point, this asshole has taken money away from providing education that allows people to better their lives. I would say taking the money actually lessens his cause because it makes it seem like he was just looking for a jackpot.

Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them. Taking courses at my CC allowed me to change from being a cashier to having a real career by learning marketable skills in less than 2 years with no debts.Currently my local community college is cutting backprogramsbecause of budget shortfalls; a 50K loss would be a significant blow to the school. I'm sure this is taking money away from Modesto Community College that could be used to educate students.


So you are saying that because a company provides a good service, it should be able to violate the constitutional rights of people without punishment? They need to be fined because otherwise there is no deterrent for them pulling the same shiat again
 
2014-02-26 11:20:52 AM

BMFPitt: manbart: What a sanctimonious asshole.

Was the school in the wrong? Yes. But, this guy got free legal representation, and the school caved.

What pisses me off is the $50,000 settlement. Community Colleges typically have very tight budgets. To prove a point, this asshole has taken money away from providing education that allows people to better their lives. I would say taking the money actually lessens his cause because it makes it seem like he was just looking for a jackpot.

Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them. Taking courses at my CC allowed me to change from being a cashier to having a real career by learning marketable skills in less than 2 years with no debts.Currently my local community college is cutting backprogramsbecause of budget shortfalls; a 50K loss would be a significant blow to the school. I'm sure this is taking money away from Modesto Community College that could be used to educate students.

The only way to make an organization change is by going after their wallet.


They already changed before the settlement.

 Community colleges do not have deep pockets, this settlement is affecting the community negatively. This guy is an ass IMO.
 
2014-02-26 11:24:35 AM

Lost Thought 00: manbart: What a sanctimonious asshole.

Was the school in the wrong? Yes. But, this guy got free legal representation, and the school caved.

What pisses me off is the $50,000 settlement. Community Colleges typically have very tight budgets. To prove a point, this asshole has taken money away from providing education that allows people to better their lives. I would say taking the money actually lessens his cause because it makes it seem like he was just looking for a jackpot.

Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them. Taking courses at my CC allowed me to change from being a cashier to having a real career by learning marketable skills in less than 2 years with no debts.Currently my local community college is cutting backprogramsbecause of budget shortfalls; a 50K loss would be a significant blow to the school. I'm sure this is taking money away from Modesto Community College that could be used to educate students.

So you are saying that because a company provides a good service, it should be able to violate the constitutional rights of people without punishment? They need to be fined because otherwise there is no deterrent for them pulling the same shiat again


He got the school to agree to change their policy before the settlement.

Plus, is this really that important of a fight, really? People go there to learn, and better their lives. ISn't this in line with the conservative "pull one up by the bootstraps" philosophy?

This guy should stop being a jackass, take his classes and don't make trouble for an institution that provides a positive and accessible community service.

This whole thing just comes off as pure, snide assholery.
 
2014-02-26 11:25:20 AM
manbart
Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them.

You probably just answered your own question.
 
2014-02-26 11:25:31 AM
Wow, is there a non-derp link for this?  Google seemingly only shows the normal echo chamber sites having reported this.
 
2014-02-26 11:27:16 AM
I wonder if the people defending the community college supported the "free speech zones" when Bush was president?

/nevermind, I know the answer
 
2014-02-26 11:27:29 AM

RanDomino: manbart
Community colleges provide a great public service, I don't see why people would want to fark with them.

You probably just answered your own question.


Yeah, I bet this guy really wanted to fark with "those elitist liberal university professors" but had to settle for farking the community college over because it is available to all.
 
2014-02-26 11:28:29 AM
Van Tuinen said he's more excited about getting the school to revise its speech codes, which previously confined the First Amendment to a small area students had to sign up to use.

So now Fox Propaganda has a problem with free speech zones.  That'll last until the next time a Republican becomes president.
 
2014-02-26 11:28:59 AM

manbart: He got the school to agree to change their policy before the settlement.


That's great. And tomorrow they will change their policy back. Without financial damages, there is no incentive for them to follow the settlement.
 
2014-02-26 11:29:26 AM

Prank Monkey: I wonder if the people defending the community college supported the "free speech zones" when Bush was president?

/nevermind, I know the answer


Who's defending it? the college already back-pedaled before the settlement. No one is arguing in favor of this.
 
2014-02-26 11:30:04 AM

RanDomino: , including Stossel on more than one occasion."


I read that as Stasi, for some reason.
 
2014-02-26 11:32:42 AM

Lost Thought 00: manbart: He got the school to agree to change their policy before the settlement.

That's great. And tomorrow they will change their policy back. Without financial damages, there is no incentive for them to follow the settlement.


Even if that is the case, who cares anyway? It sounds like this guy is only even affiliated with the college to fark with them to prove some political point.

Most people who go to community college just want to take classes to improve their lives. Why does it need to be the grounds for some constitutional showdown? If this is what people consider "oppression," they need to take their head out of their ass.
 
2014-02-26 11:37:18 AM

Prank Monkey: I wonder if the people defending the community college supported the "free speech zones" when Bush was president?

/nevermind, I know the answer


I'm assuming you "know" the wrong answer.  FIRE has been fighting against these shenanigans since before Bush was elected.

// FWIW, I was calling "free speech zones" near Bush's public appearances an impeachable offense.
 
2014-02-26 11:39:00 AM

manbart: Even if that is the case, who cares anyway? It sounds like this guy is only even affiliated with the college to fark with them to prove some political point.


You sound like one of those people who complains that Rosa Parks got arrested on purpose.
 
2014-02-26 11:39:20 AM
what's so bad about yelling FFIRIE?
 
2014-02-26 11:42:51 AM

BMFPitt: manbart: Even if that is the case, who cares anyway? It sounds like this guy is only even affiliated with the college to fark with them to prove some political point.

You sound like one of those people who complains that Rosa Parks got arrested on purpose.



If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.

A) he was not arrested or fined,
B) The administrators told him where he was allowed to pass out fliers
C) when he got legal representation (pro-bono), the school reversed course

It's a disingenuous comparison, and you know that. This is an attention whoring stunt that turned into a jackpot for this guy. Now, he can pass out fliers where ever he pleases, and the school janitors will sweep up the mess at the end of the day. Mission accomplished.
 
2014-02-26 11:44:42 AM
Can you still yell THEATER in a crowded fire?
 
2014-02-26 11:46:27 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Can you still yell THEATER in a crowded fire?


Try it tonight at dinner, see you there.
 
2014-02-26 11:52:06 AM
manbart:  Now, he can pass out fliers where ever he pleases, and the school janitors will sweep up the mess at the end of the day. Mission accomplished.

I wonder if they realize that this means everyone will have free speech rights?
 
2014-02-26 11:56:11 AM

AngryTeacher: manbart:  Now, he can pass out fliers where ever he pleases, and the school janitors will sweep up the mess at the end of the day. Mission accomplished.

I wonder if they realize that this means everyone will have free speech rights?


That probably was FIRE's objective. As for why they continued the lawsuit after the school agreed to change their policy, well, lawyers gots to get paid somehow, and what's the point of suing for civil rights if you can't make a couple bucks off of it?
 
2014-02-26 11:57:46 AM
He's Constitutioning as hard as he can. Can you feel it, America? Can you feel his rock-hard patriotism sliding up your moist Freedom Canal?

Yeah. You know you want it.

// and yet, when one of the people INSIDE starts teaching the Constitution's guarantees of the freedoms of conscience and expression and of equal protection for all under its jurisdiction, it's "liberal indoctrination" of the worst kind
 
2014-02-26 12:03:48 PM
The admins were in the wrong, period. I don't care if he's industrial grade douche or if the organization that supported him is a hive of right wingers.

Schools, especially colleges, do not have the right to restrict the excercise of the first amendment.

All you people defending the school, you're a bunch of farking idiots. I suppose Bush II's "free speech zones" behind fences an miles from his events were okay too? After all, people still had the right to say what they wanted, as long as they stayed in their designated place.
 
2014-02-26 12:10:44 PM

adamatari: The admins were in the wrong, period. I don't care if he's industrial grade douche or if the organization that supported him is a hive of right wingers.

Schools, especially colleges, do not have the right to restrict the excercise of the first amendment.

All you people defending the school, you're a bunch of farking idiots. I suppose Bush II's "free speech zones" behind fences an miles from his events were okay too? After all, people still had the right to say what they wanted, as long as they stayed in their designated place.


I don't see anyone defending the school. I see a few people saying that the guy is kind of an asshole for continuing to pursue the lawsuit after the school agreed to change its policy.
 
2014-02-26 12:14:16 PM

adamatari: The admins were in the wrong, period. I don't care if he's industrial grade douche or if the organization that supported him is a hive of right wingers.

Schools, especially colleges, do not have the right to restrict the excercise of the first amendment.

All you people defending the school, you're a bunch of farking idiots. I suppose Bush II's "free speech zones" behind fences an miles from his events were okay too? After all, people still had the right to say what they wanted, as long as they stayed in their designated place.


Who's defending the free speech zones?

This issue at hand was only passing out fliers by the way. Fliers were probably not allowed because they cause a litter problem. If you think that the school was intentionally violating his civil rights because they wanted to silence his political message, your a histrionic idiot. No one cares what this guy has to say. But, he got his way anyway, and nice jackpot for his troubles. Yay!
 
2014-02-26 12:17:46 PM

Needlessly Complicated: RanDomino: Smells like bullshiat. Organizations like this one have been fronts for trying to gag liberal professors and help conservative teachers and students get away with all kinds of blatantly unfair shiat for several years now. Anyone know what the actual story is here?

I came here to say this. The source makes the story extra suspect. I mean, would FN even be reporting on this if it was, say, some liberal student who was just passing out copies of the Constitution?

/to the Google!


Is Huffington Post supposed to be more liberal? I can't remember anymore. Either way, here is their take on the story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-lukianoff/on-constitution-day-cal if _b_3954954.html

I don't care who posts the story, 'Free Speech Zones' are anything but. They're a bunch of bullshiat that got really out of hand in the Bush era and nobody put a stop to it. They may have existed before that, but that's when they really took off. As long as he was not impeding the actual functioning of the school, he should have been able to hand these out anywhere on campus he wished. Since handing them out in the library or in classrooms during class would have hampered the functioning of the school, there was no need for a 'Free Speech Zone'.
 
2014-02-26 12:23:03 PM

manbart: If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.



manbart: If you think that the school was intentionally violating his civil rights because they wanted to silence his political message, your a histrionic idiot.



If you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", then yore probably not the intellectual giant you think you are.
 
2014-02-26 12:25:28 PM

Son of Thunder: manbart: If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.


manbart: If you think that the school was intentionally violating his civil rights because they wanted to silence his political message, your a histrionic idiot.


If you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", then yore probably not the intellectual giant you think you are.


You make a compelling point, I like where you rebutted the points of the arguments so eloquently. And your really took me down a peg in all those instances where I touted my massive intellect. You should post a XKCD comic next to prove how just how above it all you are.
 
2014-02-26 12:31:49 PM

manbart: And your really took me down a peg in all those instances where I touted my massive intellect.


I'm... going to assume that that was you joking.  Nobody's THAT dumb.


You should post a XKCD comic next to prove how just how above it all you are.

Then wouldn't that be "taking you down a JPEG"?
 
2014-02-26 12:34:49 PM

manbart: Son of Thunder: manbart: If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.


manbart: If you think that the school was intentionally violating his civil rights because they wanted to silence his political message, your a histrionic idiot.


If you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", then yore probably not the intellectual giant you think you are.

You make a compelling point, I like where you rebutted the points of the arguments so eloquently. And your really took me down a peg in all those instances where I touted my massive intellect. You should post a XKCD comic next to prove how just how above it all you are.


His point makes just as much sense as noting it's okay for a public institution to infringe your constitutional rights so long as they back off once you have free legal representation, at which point if you don't back off, then you're the asshole.
 
2014-02-26 12:43:53 PM

manbart: If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.


If you think that's what I said, you're  delusional.

qorkfiend: I don't see anyone defending the school.


Take your hands away from your eyes for a minute.

B) The administrators told him where he was allowed to pass out fliers

manbart: Who's defending the free speech zones?

This issue at hand was only passing out fliers by the way. Fliers were probably not allowed because they cause a litter problem.


You, for one.
 
2014-02-26 12:43:53 PM

RoyBatty: manbart: Son of Thunder: manbart: If you think the Civil Rights Movement is the same as a guy being told to stop passing out fliers in a quad, your delusional.


manbart: If you think that the school was intentionally violating his civil rights because they wanted to silence his political message, your a histrionic idiot.


If you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", then yore probably not the intellectual giant you think you are.

You make a compelling point, I like where you rebutted the points of the arguments so eloquently. And your really took me down a peg in all those instances where I touted my massive intellect. You should post a XKCD comic next to prove how just how above it all you are.

His point makes just as much sense as noting it's okay for a public institution to infringe your constitutional rights so long as they back off once you have free legal representation, at which point if you don't back off, then you're the asshole.


Yes, he's the asshole

Was the issue actually the fliers or was it something else? If it really was the fliers, he already had that before the settlement. Why then pursue the settlement?

Keep things in perspective here. He was not arrested or fined. No one tried to retaliate against him for his political views or anything. All that happened was he was told he had to pass out fliers in a designated area, and he sues the school. Sounds like an asshole to me.
 
2014-02-26 12:45:39 PM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Van Tuinen said he's more excited about getting the school to revise its speech codes, which previously confined the First Amendment to a small area students had to sign up to use.

So now Fox Propaganda has a problem with free speech zones.  That'll last until the next time a Republican becomes president.


Exactly what I thought. Neither FIRE nor Fox News had a single problem with the free speech zone that kept protesters away from Bush in the 2004 election. I don't remember either of these organizations screaming about the 2004 convention's Guantanamo on the Hudson.
 
2014-02-26 12:45:51 PM

manbart: Who's defending the free speech zones?


You are, right here

manbart: Lost Thought 00: manbart: He got the school to agree to change their policy before the settlement.

That's great. And tomorrow they will change their policy back. Without financial damages, there is no incentive for them to follow the settlement.

Even if that is the case, who cares anyway? It sounds like this guy is only even affiliated with the college to fark with them to prove some political point.

Most people who go to community college just want to take classes to improve their lives. Why does it need to be the grounds for some constitutional showdown? If this is what people consider "oppression," they need to take their head out of their ass.

 
2014-02-26 12:46:15 PM
 you still can't call out its acronym in a crowded theater

What about a theater showing an Adam Sandler "comedy"?
 
2014-02-26 12:53:33 PM

DeaH: Exactly what I thought. Neither FIRE nor Fox News had a single problem with the free speech zone that kept protesters away from Bush in the 2004 election.


Can you provide some evidence of this?
 
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