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(Huffington Post)   You know what they say: MO money, MO executions   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 53
    More: Followup, Michael Taylor, Missouri, fourth person, final statement, gas chambers, Attorney General Chris Koster, cruel and unusual punishment  
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3678 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2014 at 9:18 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 08:26:29 AM
To be fair, if I was forced to live in Missouri I'd want to be killed quickly too.
 
2014-02-26 08:29:58 AM
They're just doing what the Party of Jesus wants them to do.
 
2014-02-26 09:25:50 AM
Buh bye, sh*tstain.
 
2014-02-26 09:26:48 AM
Cause of death:  homicide.

No, really.  That's what they will list it as.
 
2014-02-26 09:26:50 AM
Here's one thing I never understood.  Between the Dems and the GOP, generally the followers of the GOP are more supportive of the death penalty than the Dems.  However, the GOP is a party that distrusts the ability of government to anything correctly.

So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?
 
2014-02-26 09:26:55 AM
My favourite part is that there were no obvious signs of distress. No shiat. They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc. The prisons learned pretty early on it was best after the family members and witnesses kept puking too much in the past, so they do what they can for their benefit.
 
2014-02-26 09:28:12 AM
but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old
 
2014-02-26 09:30:10 AM

Mercutio74: So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?


That's why we have juries.
 
2014-02-26 09:30:51 AM

limeyfellow: My favourite part is that there were no obvious signs of distress. No shiat. They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc. The prisons learned pretty early on it was best after the family members and witnesses kept puking too much in the past, so they do what they can for their benefit.


This isn't the slightest bit relevant to my personal opposition to capital punishment.  He suffered for 10 minutes or so?  Whatever.  Doesn't bother me.  The years of waiting, that's the real torture.

Voiceofreason01: but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old


Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever.  What did killing him accomplish?  Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it.  That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.
 
2014-02-26 09:31:39 AM

The Muthaship: Mercutio74: So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?

That's why we have juries.


Whew, I was worried for a second that people might be executed for crimes they didn't commit.
 
2014-02-26 09:33:24 AM
Bad sentence structure!

FTFA: Missouri inmate was executed early Wednesday for abducting, raping and killing a Kansas City teenager as she waited for her school bus in 1989 [...]

How about, "Missouri inmate was executed early Wednesday for raping and killing a Kansas City teenager who was abducted as she waited for her school bus in 1989 [...]"?  Because by the time she was killed, I'll bet you she wasn't waiting for the bus any more.  :-P
 
2014-02-26 09:34:40 AM

Mercutio74: I was worried for a second that people might be executed for crimes they didn't commit.


I was worried you thought the RNC or DNC was rendering verdicts in capital cases.  Sorry about that.
 
2014-02-26 09:35:06 AM
...I don't understand. There's no doubt as to his guilt, from what I gather, and he died a quick, humane death for a horrible crime. What's the problem?

The only issue I have with the death penalty isn't the penalty itself, but the simple fact that far, far too many people sentenced to it are, in all likelihood, either innocent or, at the very least, not guilty of a crime warranting the penalty. Too many people go to Death Row because of their social status, their race, or the incompetence of their representation.
 
2014-02-26 09:35:09 AM

nekom: Voiceofreason01: but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old


Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever.  What did killing him accomplish?  Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it.  That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.


I had a whole thing I was going to write about how I oppose the death penalty and how the penal system should be about rehabilitation instead of simple punishment or revenge even in the most extreme cases but I just don't have it in me this early in the morning to defend a dead man who raped and murdered a 15 year old.
 
2014-02-26 09:38:00 AM
Why would they even plead guilty if the plea was the death penalty?
 
2014-02-26 09:38:14 AM
Voiceofreason01:
I had a whole thing I was going to write about how I oppose the death penalty and how the penal system should be about rehabilitation instead of simple punishment or revenge even in the most extreme cases but I just don't have it in me this early in the morning to defend a dead man who raped and murdered a 15 year old.

I'm not going to defend him either.  And I think while we probably agree that the justice system should be about rehabilitation for the most part, I suspect we also agree that some people are beyond that and need to be removed from society permanently.  We don't have to kill them to achieve that.
 
2014-02-26 09:40:11 AM
Missourah, the northern-most southern state.
 
2014-02-26 09:41:02 AM

nekom: limeyfellow: My favourite part is that there were no obvious signs of distress. No shiat. They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc. The prisons learned pretty early on it was best after the family members and witnesses kept puking too much in the past, so they do what they can for their benefit.

This isn't the slightest bit relevant to my personal opposition to capital punishment.  He suffered for 10 minutes or so?  Whatever.  Doesn't bother me.  The years of waiting, that's the real torture.

Voiceofreason01: but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old

Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever.  What did killing him accomplish?  Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it.  That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.


I'm not usually one for eugenics, but I can't get too upset when a guy like that is removed from the gene pool.
 
2014-02-26 09:47:42 AM

The Muthaship: Mercutio74: I was worried for a second that people might be executed for crimes they didn't commit.

I was worried you thought the RNC or DNC was rendering verdicts in capital cases.  Sorry about that.


Oh trolly, your wilful ignorance is ever so vexing.  Whatever shall I do with my rage towards you?  Are you happy now?

The death penalty exists due to the political process.
 
2014-02-26 09:50:41 AM

Krashash: I'm not usually one for eugenics, but I can't get too upset when a guy like that is removed from the gene pool.


I for one would like to see some kind of a genetic link established that causes rapey and murderish behaviour before we go down that road.  However, if there IS a genetic component, what on earth would that do to the justice system?  That's a chilling thought.
 
2014-02-26 09:57:12 AM

limeyfellow: They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc.


I guarantee this is more humane than euthanizing an animal.  This form of capital punishment is like a walk in the park, it's exactly what European countries have approved for euthanasia.  Champion it as humane for those suffering, deride it for those convicted of heinous crimes.  Got it.
 
2014-02-26 09:57:12 AM

Mercutio74: The death penalty exists due to the political process.



Yes, it's called "the will of the people".  That's why it exists.  As for worrying about the government's ability to carry it out, there's reason for concern.  If I cared about the suffering of people who earn the death penalty, I might even worry about that myself.
 
2014-02-26 09:59:45 AM
I get confused on this whole lethal injection business.   I mean,  we have drugs that knock people completely out for surgery.   Do that.   Then do whatever,  y'know,   an axe or something.

Now, that doesn't address whether we SHOULD have capital punishment....but if we do,  there's no reason for this big rigamarole.
 
2014-02-26 10:05:01 AM

Farabor: I get confused on this whole lethal injection business.   I mean,  we have drugs that knock people completely out for surgery.   Do that.   Then do whatever,  y'know,   an axe or something.

Now, that doesn't address whether we SHOULD have capital punishment....but if we do,  there's no reason for this big rigamarole.


If you want it to be truly humane, you have to first establish guilt beyond any shadow of a doubt, then take them IMMEDIATELY to the gallows and drop them.  No decades of waiting, no endless appeals, no torturous death row.  That is the inhumanity of it, a bit of suffering or discomfort in the last few moments of their life is quite meh in comparison.
 
2014-02-26 10:08:55 AM

The Muthaship: Yes, it's called "the will of the people". That's why it exists. As for worrying about the government's ability to carry it out, there's reason for concern. If I cared about the suffering of people who earn the death penalty, I might even worry about that myself.


It's a mistake made by "the people" to consider it a good idea.  If the prosecutor was concerned only with getting to the truth of the matter and if the death penalty was applied 100% accurately (that is, only on people guilty of the crime they're convicted of) I wouldn't have an issue with it.  But in reality, prosecutors try to get vicotories and people are killed often enough by the state in error that the whole thing should be scrapped in favour of lifetime imprisonment with no possibility of parole.
 
2014-02-26 10:09:03 AM
The apparently disproportionate application of the death penalty based on socioeconomic factors is a very good reason to make execution the mandatory sentence for certain especially heinous crimes
 
2014-02-26 10:09:19 AM

Voiceofreason01: nekom: Voiceofreason01: but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old


Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever.  What did killing him accomplish?  Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it.  That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.

I had a whole thing I was going to write about how I oppose the death penalty and how the penal system should be about rehabilitation instead of simple punishment or revenge even in the most extreme cases but I just don't have it in me this early in the morning to defend a dead man who raped and murdered a 15 year old.


So much this.

/ I don't even have the energy to make a Glenn Beck joke about it....
 
2014-02-26 10:14:41 AM

nekom: Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever. What did killing him accomplish? Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it. That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.


It's not about revenge, it's about justice.  Civilized society and especially our country, is founded on the notion that certain rights are inalienable but that those rights are inextricably linked to responsibilities.  So we believe that every person has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  As regards the right to life, it is inextricably tied to the responsibility to respect the life of others.  This guy demonstrated a complete disregard for the live of another.  As such, he forfeits his right to life.

Not everyone who kills must be killed.  Which is why our system of justice makes exceptions for self-defense, for example.  If it can be demonstrated that you took the life of another because he was refusing to respect your right to live, you are exonerated.

Note that there is nothing arbitrary about the death penalty.  First, the police must assemble evidence that the perp has committed the crime.  This is reviewed by the prosecuting attorney - actually a committee of them - to make sure that the evidence is suitable for presentation in a court of law.  The accused is given the right to competent legal defense, even free of charge if necessary.  This evidence is then presented to a jury of the accused's peers under the watchful eye of an impartial judge.  After every witness, the defense counsel has the opportunity to try to impeach the credibility of the witness or evidence.  After the prosecution has taken its best shot, the defense has the opportunity to present its evidence that the accused is not guilty.  After both sides have presented their case, the jury must unanimously agree that the accused is guilty of the offenses with which he was charged.  After that step, the jury is reconvened in a different part of the trial to determine if the crime, of which he has already been convicted, rises to the level the requires the convicted man to forfeit his life.  After the jury unanimously agrees that he should be put to death, there are automatic appeals to panels of judges and lawyers who review every aspect and every step of the case to make sure that the law was scrupulously followed and that the convicted man was treated fairly and according to the law. - laws that were passed by legislatures, approved by an administration (whether governor or president) and have likely passed through the crucible of judicial review.  After this entire process, designed to insure the validity of the conviction and sentence, there are judges and governors who may, almost at a whim, stay the execution indefinitely.

I know that you're familiar with that process but when it is all laid out and one recognizes the intensity and severity of the process used to sentence a person to the death penalty, can you really believe it's about revenge?  Real life isn't like an old Western Movie where trumped up charges can be brought some afternoon in the local saloon and find some hapless patsy strung up the next morning.
 
2014-02-26 10:18:58 AM

Voiceofreason01: I had a whole thing I was going to write about how I oppose the death penalty and how the penal system should be about rehabilitation instead of simple punishment or revenge even in the most extreme cases but I just don't have it in me this early in the morning to defend a dead man who raped and murdered a 15 year old.


My problem with that view is the idea that we can somehow rehabilitate violent criminals and they will then live a peaceful and crime free existence. How do we measure rehabilitation? The answer (as far as I can tell) is we can't.

As to the death penalty - I would cheerfully see it done away with simply because of the many people who have been sentenced to die and weren't guilty of the crime. If we do eliminate the death penalty, then a life sentence should mean exactly that. No parole, no early release. You are in there until you are carted out in a box.
 
2014-02-26 10:26:33 AM

UtopianDevil: My problem with that view is the idea that we can somehow rehabilitate violent criminals and they will then live a peaceful and crime free existence. How do we measure rehabilitation? The answer (as far as I can tell) is we can't.


The US has the highest incarceration rate of any civilized country. In my State one of the big problems the department of corrections has is that they can't get funding for drug treatment and addicts are one of the biggest recidivism problems they have. There are an awful lot of people in jail because they lack basic coping mechanisms which is exacerbated by a poor social support structure and poverty. Counseling and education/job training would help a lot of people get out of a place where violence or drugs or other criminal behavior is a acceptable to them.
 
2014-02-26 10:29:51 AM

limeyfellow: My favourite part is that there were no obvious signs of distress. No shiat. They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc. The prisons learned pretty early on it was best after the family members and witnesses kept puking too much in the past, so they do what they can for their benefit.


If you'd prefer that executions be carried out by shooting them in the head, no problem here.
 
2014-02-26 10:32:36 AM

limeyfellow: My favourite part is that there were no obvious signs of distress. No shiat. They inject you with a paralytic that they start running so you can't move or show signs of discomfort as the second chemicals burn away your veins and cripples your heart, seizes up the lungs etc. The prisons learned pretty early on it was best after the family members and witnesses kept puking too much in the past, so they do what they can for their benefit.


I'm against the death penalty for multiple reasons, but I will clarify that MO does NOT use a paralytic agent in their lethal injections.  In fact, most states don't anymore.  MO uses a single drug to do the job, specifically pentobarbital, which is an opioid-based barbiturate.  I once searched to find out what an opioid overdose would feel like, and with extremely few exceptions, almost everyone that ODed (either accidentally or intentionally) and was brought back said that slipping away was the most wonderful and blissful feeling they've ever had.  They said the worst part of it all was being brought back.  So, my guess is he probably didn't feel any significant amount of physical pain, except for the insertion of the needle.

That being said however, there is the knowledge that you're walking into a room that you aren't going to walk out of, knowing that you're going to take your last breath in that room surrounded by people who hate you, knowing that your life is going to end in mere minutes that is worse than any physical pain the execution could cause.  That kind of psychological torture is not acceptable, nor is a society where we become murderers ourselves.  In my opinion, revenge has no place in the criminal justice system of the 21st century.  We should be beyond the point where we cannot control our primal instincts for vengeance and our need to kill.  Bloodlust is not a good thing, no matter what kind of person is on the receiving end of it.  There's also the fact that multiple innocent people have been executed over the years, and that troubles me even more, but that's for another post.
 
2014-02-26 10:36:51 AM

vsavatar: There's also the fact that multiple innocent people have been executed over the years


Now we don't know that for sure.  Statistically, I'd say it's likely but I'm not aware of any instance where it has been proven that an innocent person was executed in the modern era.  There are a few compelling cases, but nothing concrete.  If there is one, I'd love to hear about it.  Of course with 143 death row inmates exonerated since 1973 (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row ) it's certainly well within the realm of possibility.
 
2014-02-26 10:45:07 AM

nekom: Farabor: I get confused on this whole lethal injection business.   I mean,  we have drugs that knock people completely out for surgery.   Do that.   Then do whatever,  y'know,   an axe or something.

Now, that doesn't address whether we SHOULD have capital punishment....but if we do,  there's no reason for this big rigamarole.

If you want it to be truly humane, you have to first establish guilt beyond any shadow of a doubt, then take them IMMEDIATELY to the gallows and drop them.  No decades of waiting, no endless appeals, no torturous death row.  That is the inhumanity of it, a bit of suffering or discomfort in the last few moments of their life is quite meh in comparison.


It's usually the prisoners who appeal and want to delay. If waiting is the inhumane part, then prisoners themselves and their advocates are causing it.

We should allow the appeals process to run its full course for capital crimes, as there is no going back obviously after execution.

Anyway, the drawn out appeals process is one of the many reasons that capital punishment isn't worth it, so I tend I agree with your overall view.
 
2014-02-26 10:54:59 AM
Proposal, and let me know if it seems fair. Cruel and unusual punishment should be defined not by the standards of a decent society, but rather by the acts of the convicted. What the killer can be subjected to is only cruel and unusual if it exceeds the treatment that you have been convicted of. Want to be gently put to sleep? Then that better be what you did to your victim. Burn someone alive? Anything less than or equal to that goes. Multiple murder? Just be glad that we'll only kill you once ( because we have the technology to do more).

Pass that and we'll have effectively put the deterrent back in capital punishment.
 
2014-02-26 10:58:03 AM

Voiceofreason01: UtopianDevil: My problem with that view is the idea that we can somehow rehabilitate violent criminals and they will then live a peaceful and crime free existence. How do we measure rehabilitation? The answer (as far as I can tell) is we can't.

The US has the highest incarceration rate of any civilized country. In my State one of the big problems the department of corrections has is that they can't get funding for drug treatment and addicts are one of the biggest recidivism problems they have. There are an awful lot of people in jail because they lack basic coping mechanisms which is exacerbated by a poor social support structure and poverty. Counseling and education/job training would help a lot of people get out of a place where violence or drugs or other criminal behavior is a acceptable to them.



Let me clarify - since this is a discussion of the death penalty, I was referring to those who commit violent crimes and prey upon others.

I think the drug war is a colossal waste of lives, time and money. I think treatment and support for drug addiction is a good path to follow. At that point though, we aren't trying to rehabilitate criminals, we are trying to help an addict beat their addiction. Just because their particular addiction has been labeled as a 'crime' doesn't put them in the same class as those who commit crimes that have actual victims.

I am all for education and job training for those convicted of 'petty' crimes. Those that commit serious violent crimes (rape, murder) have demonstrated they are a danger to the public. Without any way to measure rehabilitation they should not be released back into society, ever.
 
2014-02-26 10:59:42 AM
The only thing that happened early this morning was that some defective merchandise was returned to the manufacturer.

The tragedy was that it took 25 years to do it.
 
2014-02-26 11:12:46 AM

Mercutio74: Here's one thing I never understood.  Between the Dems and the GOP, generally the followers of the GOP are more supportive of the death penalty than the Dems.  However, the GOP is a party that distrusts the ability of government to anything correctly.

So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?


Amendment V: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Criminal justice is one of the basic powers allowed to the government, including capital punishment.

I think the small government types don't want micromanagement in our lives. But in reality, both sides do want to micromanage. It's the nature of those in power.
 
2014-02-26 11:24:49 AM

Thallone1: Proposal, and let me know if it seems fair. Cruel and unusual punishment should be defined not by the standards of a decent society, but rather by the acts of the convicted. What the killer can be subjected to is only cruel and unusual if it exceeds the treatment that you have been convicted of. Want to be gently put to sleep? Then that better be what you did to your victim. Burn someone alive? Anything less than or equal to that goes. Multiple murder? Just be glad that we'll only kill you once ( because we have the technology to do more).

Pass that and we'll have effectively put the deterrent back in capital punishment.


In that respect, isn't life in a miserable hole far worse?  Being burned alive would certainly suck, but it would be over fairly quickly.  Isn't knowing that every time you wake up it will be the same far worse?  That you'll eat what you're given, that you'll do what you're told or be beaten into submission, that any one of the staff or other inmates could well kill you on any given day.  Isn't that far worse than a tortuous but brief death and then barring any sort of beliefs in an afterlife that's it, you're gone, free?
 
2014-02-26 11:24:53 AM
Voiceofreason01: but on the other hand he raped and murdered a 15 year old

nekom: Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever.  What did killing him accomplish?  Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it.  That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.


What did killing him accomplish? It makes sure he never hurts anyone again. Prison doesn't do that, not even close. There are a myriad instances of murderers murdering again in jail, escaping and murdering again, being released to murder again, etc.

I don't see how putting someone in a cell is a commensurate response to rape and murder. It does limit their ability to do it again, but it doesn't prevent it. If you want to prevent it, the only way to do so is to execute them. Also, there is the general deterrence effect (which if it does exist and you don't execute, you're intentionally allowing the deaths of murder victims to save the lives of murderers. If it doesn't exist and you execute, you're simply administering the closest we have to justice to capital offenders).

I fully support retributive justice. It's kind of amusing to see those who try to insinuate that retribution is somehow scandalous. The threat of retribution is what dissuades predators from freely getting their freak on.
 
2014-02-26 11:27:28 AM

nekom: In that respect, isn't life in a miserable hole far worse?


When I start seeing large numbers of those with life sentences trying to get their sentence "reduced" to execution, then I'll believe life in prison is a harsher sentence than execution.

But... it's not just about what's the harshest sentence. It's about how best to prevent the offenders from re-offending, and deterring potential predators.
 
2014-02-26 11:48:46 AM

johncb76006: The only thing that happened early this morning was that some defective merchandise was returned to the manufacturer.

The tragedy was that it took 25 years to do it.


Might want to RTFA again... He was 47... It was just 25 years since his crime...

While I am for the death penalty, I'm against the extremely long wait and costs in between the crime and the final punishment... If you have incontestable evidence, like HD video of the perp committing the crime, like some of the stuff you see in the movies, then take that person in front of a judge with the evidence, then take them to their grave and take the appropriate actions...

I'm sick of hearing stories about people going postal, for the Fort Hood example, and killing 13 people in a hospital waiting room while shouting "Allah akbar" then sitting in a cell collecting their military pay while we hear story after story about his trial being held up because he wouldn't shave...

If you have damning evidence, quit wasting the court's time and giving the media BS talking points to stir up outrage...

If you don't have absolute proof of their guilt, send them to jail for life without parole. And forget tossing us stories of "They're 80+ years old and their organs are failing. They just want to die outside of the cellblock"... I'm sure their victims wanted to live a long full life too, and die free, but the criminal decided otherwise...
 
2014-02-26 12:15:04 PM

JungleBoogie: it's not just about what's the harshest sentence. It's about how best to prevent the offenders from re-offending, and deterring potential predators.


I don't disagree.  The likes of him absolutely need to be removed from society forever.  It's also very important to send a message to other would-be criminals that the consequences of such crimes will be severe.  But all of this is accomplished with a life without parole term.  I know it varies in different states, but here in Pennsylvania life without parole means what it says.  I live about a mile away from a maximum security prison, I took the tour when they first opened it, I'm comfortably convinced that there isn't going to be an escape.
 
2014-02-26 12:46:30 PM

The Muthaship: Mercutio74: So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?

That's why we have juries.


It's cute how you think that's what does the trick.
 
2014-02-26 12:48:45 PM

nekom: Which is a great reason to stuff him in a concrete cell forever. What did killing him accomplish? Unless you think that the justice system needs a revenge aspect to it. That's a valid opinion if you're willing to admit that.


It guarantees he won't do it again WITHOUT making taxpayers responsible for keeping that sh**stain alive for the next 50 years.
 
2014-02-26 12:50:32 PM

Ritley: Why would they even plead guilty if the plea was the death penalty?


The death penalty works best when people have shiatty legal representation, little understanding of what they are doing, are intimidated by the system and its processes and have been broken down enough by the agents of that system that it seems better to enter a doomsday plea than try to fight.

And don't think for a second that innocent people haven't been manipulated into pleading guilty.
 
2014-02-26 12:58:11 PM
gshepnyc:
And don't think for a second that innocent people haven't been manipulated into pleading guilty.

Especially people that don't know any better.  Eddie Joe Lloyd is one good example, a mentally ill man who wrote to police with suggestions on solving various crimes.  They convinced him that confessing would help smoke out the real killer.  DNA later proved his innocence.  Yes, that absolutely happens.
 
2014-02-26 12:58:13 PM

gshepnyc: And don't think for a second that innocent people haven't been manipulated into pleading guilty.


In a death penalty case?  It is virtually impossible to plead guilty, you have to beg.  Even if you do get the court to accept it, they impanel a jury to hear mitigating evidence.
 
2014-02-26 04:08:12 PM

Mercutio74: Here's one thing I never understood.  Between the Dems and the GOP, generally the followers of the GOP are more supportive of the death penalty than the Dems.  However, the GOP is a party that distrusts the ability of government to anything correctly.

So why on earth would that group of people support that same government having the ability to put citizens to death?


Because they're stupid.
 
2014-02-26 04:10:54 PM
The details of these cases are the things nightmares are made of.
 
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