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(AlterNet)   "It's easy to fall for the hysteria surrounding meth since it's the drug warriors' scapegoat drug of choice, but there is no empirical evidence that meth causes physical deformities, rots teeth or is even close to as addictive as it's made out to be"   (alternet.org) divider line 14
    More: Interesting, empirical evidence, deformities, meth causes, High Price, direct effect, double-blind, poor people, teeth  
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2730 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Feb 2014 at 8:39 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-26 08:44:35 AM  
4 votes:

hubiestubert: I have an ex who worked in a dental clinic for drug users, and methmouth is a thing. It's a terrible thing, and is it just coincidence that meth users have terrible teeth? Hot gases, plus drymouth, and choices do factor in. The meth itself doesn't cause the tooth rot, but it is certainly a factor. Not all by its lonesome, but it is a condition that comes from the usage. Heroin itself isn't a terrible drug, IF you have access to high quality stuff regularly, but that isn't the case with a lot of folks. What we have to do is deal with the realities that face users, and not just focus on aspects of use, but the entire picture.


Yeah, I'm not going to take a pro-drug article from "Alternet" seriously, particularly when the authority they quote is some guy who claims Crack is OK, too, and all the concern over it is just racism.
2014-02-26 08:50:47 AM  
2 votes:

LesserEvil: Yeah, I'm not going to take a pro-drug article from "Alternet" seriously, particularly when the authority they quote is some guy who claims Crack is OK, too, and all the concern over it is just racism.


It's hard for me to take any "pro drug" article seriously unless they're talking about it in the context of "the war on drugs" being completely pointless and stupid. All drugs and narcotics have addiction factors and side effects or consequences to their use. Obviously, some are more harmful than others, and some are close to benign, but they all have them nonetheless.

I think it's telling that amongst my "druggie" friends that they'll happily pop just about any pill (even though some of them undoubtedly have meth in them), smoke whatever, drink whatever- but as soon as meth comes up it's "I'm never touching the stuff."
2014-02-26 08:40:59 AM  
2 votes:
I have an ex who worked in a dental clinic for drug users, and methmouth is a thing. It's a terrible thing, and is it just coincidence that meth users have terrible teeth? Hot gases, plus drymouth, and choices do factor in. The meth itself doesn't cause the tooth rot, but it is certainly a factor. Not all by its lonesome, but it is a condition that comes from the usage. Heroin itself isn't a terrible drug, IF you have access to high quality stuff regularly, but that isn't the case with a lot of folks. What we have to do is deal with the realities that face users, and not just focus on aspects of use, but the entire picture.
2014-02-26 03:55:58 PM  
1 votes:

Mikey1969: AndreMA: Mikey1969: That's funny... I watched people stay up for days straight on meth all of the time

Since you were obviously up for several days at a time to observe them, you're obviously a tweaker and your observations are invalid.

Then again if your observations are invalid, you aren't a tweaker who was kept up for several days by meth.

/kidding about you being a tweaker; I found the contradiction amusing

Actually, it was get home from work, they'd go buy their shiat, smoke it, sit down and start playing the game. I would eventually go to bed, get up in the morning, they'd all be in the same clothes, still up, and still playing the game, I'd go to work, come home, same story, I'd go to bed, same story, I'd get up the next day, same thing, and so on. One guy actually didn't live there, and this happened more than once. It's not like some weekends, the guy who didn't live there would leave, and it's not like some weekends, the ones who DID live there would be in different clothes. Same clothes all weekend long, in front of the TV in the corner where the consoles were hooked up, playing endless hours and hours of Super Mario Kart... Plus, I usually asked them 'Holy crap, are you guys ALL still up?', to which I got a 'Yeah, dude, 3 days straight' in response.

Oh, and did I mention that farking thing was right outside my bedroom, so I would randomly wake up to it throughout the night as well?

Good times...


The first rule of living with speed freaks: just don't. Your quality of life would be better under a farking bridge.
2014-02-26 12:23:00 PM  
1 votes:
The method of delivery greatly affects its addictiveness. Pills < snorting < smoking < mainlining.
2014-02-26 10:41:46 AM  
1 votes:

draypresct: MayoSlather: This. The anti drug argument instantly becomes a hyperbolic strawman.Of course drugs have the potential to be harmful, but that potential, for most people, is wildly overstated. And it's been overstated intentionally for really shiatty reasons.

Our response to drugs has been pretty crappy, yes.

I'm just not sure what response we should have had instead. Drug use is a classic slippery slope problem; right now, we're putting the Schelling fence at a very early point for many drugs, but I suspect we'd have similar problems no matter where we put the fence.


We should have a reasonable response that is best for society. A prevention and treatment approach was shown in a pre-drug war study to be the most cost effective and ethical response to drug abuse, and was ignored because the government had an agenda.

We help no one by throwing drug users in jail. Destroying someone's chances of being gainfully employed in an effort to stop them from using drugs is pretty much the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. That is to assume that the motivation for drug legislature has ever legitimately been about public health.

If you legalize everything and provide education and affordable treatment programs; you save massive amounts of money, you help people far more, and it cuts the legs out from underneath organized crime. When given the proper information most people tend to make decisions that are healthy and in their long term best interests.

There will always be addicts, and I suppose you could ask, will there be more if drugs are legalized, but when throwing people in jail and creating a criminal culture are the alternatives then that seems like a small price to pay. Also, considering the studies done by the author of the linked article, it suggests that a large percentage of people are merely casual users and walk away unscathed from recreational drug use of even the hardest drugs.
2014-02-26 10:02:45 AM  
1 votes:

Skyd1v: Null Pointer: IIRC that it is not really the meth that screws up teeth and faces but the horrible things that it is cut with.


A little quality control might help.


This was what I was thinking as well.


The only recent experience I have had with a tweaker was a couple of summers ago when my neighbors nephew stole my lawnmower ( caught on video and everything ) and that kid had all the symptoms like facial scabs, rotten teeth, and underweight.  But I also remember that when I was a little kid back in the 70's my dad was a long haul truck driver and a number of his friends had reputations for being able to make 25-30 hour runs without stopping to sleep, and they didn't have those issues.


Wasn't pharmaceutical ( quality controlled ) meth in wide spread use back then?



Yes. It was a different type of amphetamine  but we cracked down on it so they switched to a different type. Which we subsequently cracked down on and now are dealing with the cheap & easy to produce meth
2014-02-26 09:38:47 AM  
1 votes:

slayer199: Yes, meth is bad....but the ridiculousness of the drug war is that the government uses something that affects such a small percentage of the population to take away freedoms from the rest of us.


The part that irritates me the most is that they so often use the justification of spillover to back current anti-drug policies. It's not really so much about getting those .5% of users, it's because they commit crimes. The meth labs blow up and hurt people, crackheads mug people or B&E for drug money and cartels engage in violent warfare and drug-smuggling operations

Except the biggest reason all that happens is because you have these dickhead politicians and wanna-be suburban commandos out there escalating everything all the time and forcing people into dangerous black markets. Abusers don't have anywhere to turn for help in most cases and even if they're not abusing to a debilitating extent they can't hold legitimate jobs because of drug testing policies so they turn to stealing. Drug cartels battle internally but they also arm themselves against federal and international agencies that are going to come at them guns blazing so there's the constant arms race between the suppliers and agents. And fark all the people that get caught in the middle of it, right? Hey, if you didn't get your face shot off in a gunfight instigated by law enforcement I'm sure the meth lab next door would have definitely killed you anyway, so it's all good! Blame that on the meth then!

I'm not deluded enough to think that if we legalized drugs today that tomorrow everything would be rainbows and magic sprinkles, but if you're going to outlaw people's personal choices then what the bloody fark do you think is going to happen to the supply chain that enables them?

If a determined dealer can't buy some post-it notes and pens and set up a respectable store front and office space in the business district he's going to buy some machine guns and muscle and start digging tunnels through Chihuahua and West Texas instead, he's not just going to shrug his shoulders and go flip burgers.

Regardless of what the real health and social implications are for drug abusers, you simply have to be a complete idiot to support the "war" against them and their dealers without recognizing that it's based entirely on policies that cannot possibly result in anybody winning and will only ever serve to constantly escalate the inherent conflict it creates.
2014-02-26 09:31:23 AM  
1 votes:
IIRC that it is not really the meth that screws up teeth and faces but the horrible things that it is cut with.

A little quality control might help.
2014-02-26 09:07:57 AM  
1 votes:
I'm sure that if you were taking pharmacutical grade benzedrine in a controlled lab study, you'd be just fine. Joe and Sally truck stop, however aren't operating under such circumstances.
2014-02-26 09:05:23 AM  
1 votes:
Also, drunk driving doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, some drunk drivers get into accidents. But, it is the accident itself that causes injuries and death, not the drunk driving. Let's not demonize a perfectly cromulent pastime just because the media likes to link it to something bad.
2014-02-26 08:55:54 AM  
1 votes:

LesserEvil: hubiestubert: I have an ex who worked in a dental clinic for drug users, and methmouth is a thing. It's a terrible thing, and is it just coincidence that meth users have terrible teeth? Hot gases, plus drymouth, and choices do factor in. The meth itself doesn't cause the tooth rot, but it is certainly a factor. Not all by its lonesome, but it is a condition that comes from the usage. Heroin itself isn't a terrible drug, IF you have access to high quality stuff regularly, but that isn't the case with a lot of folks. What we have to do is deal with the realities that face users, and not just focus on aspects of use, but the entire picture.

Yeah, I'm not going to take a pro-drug article from "Alternet" seriously, particularly when the authority they quote is some guy who claims Crack is OK, too, and all the concern over it is just racism.


I don't think it's that crack and meth are "ok", it's that our response to them is drastically overblown, wasteful and ultimately futile.
2014-02-26 08:44:44 AM  
1 votes:
Don't care.
Its a health issue more than a law enforcement one, so the security industry built up around dealing with it should be dismantled in favor of one that deals with addictive behavior and mental illness.
2014-02-26 06:58:06 AM  
1 votes:
it's true, drug addiction doesn't exist, it's just manufactured by the media to keep you scared and watching tv.  meth is a perfectly safe and awesome drug.  the issue here is not whether meth users broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with their friends and families belongings, they did.  but you can't hold a whole drug community responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. for if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole drug community? and if the whole drug community is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our drug institutions in general? I put it to you, fark, isn't this an indictment of our entire american society? well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the united states of america.
 
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