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(Boing Boing)   The Chicago Police Department is trying to make Minority Report a reality, with emphasis on the minority part   (boingboing.net) divider line 101
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6346 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2014 at 2:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-25 11:52:24 PM  
Most crimes are committed by poor people, so put all the poor people in jail. Brilliant!
 
2014-02-26 12:46:06 AM  
So glad a liberal democratic mayor like Rahm Emanuel is there to put a stop to it.
 
2014-02-26 02:14:21 AM  
shiat like this is why I stay the hell off Facebook.
 
2014-02-26 02:21:04 AM  

Lsherm: shiat like this is why I stay the hell off Facebook.


I just shared this thread on Facebook. Now you're going to be associated with all my lowlife friends. HA!
 
2014-02-26 02:28:31 AM  
statistically valid correlations

That's not how law works
 
2014-02-26 02:53:06 AM  
"The CPD refuses to share the names of the people on its secret watchlist"
well duh

1) the police/authorities have always kept of list of people of interest. so not completely sure how this is SHOCKING NEWS

2) of course you dont want to SHARE the list ...

3) if people knew how the list was created, you can game the list. kind of like testing and probing airport security to find all its weaknesses.

next you are going to tell me that they should patrol more in high crime areas and less in low crime areas.

meh, I hate the chicago cops as much as the next guy, but meh

/we do really need a citizens' watch group which has access to the police and watches what they do.
/FFS why havent we legalized consensual crimes yet and solved most of the crime "problems"
 
2014-02-26 02:59:30 AM  
This is how Yankees are.
 
2014-02-26 03:06:45 AM  

fusillade762: Most crimes are committed by poor people, so put all the poor people in jail. Brilliant!


And a lot of poor people just happen to be minorities...double win!
 
2014-02-26 03:08:33 AM  
"visited by police officers who tell them that they are considered pre-criminals"

That's all kinds of farked up. Why don't you stick your little visit straight up your ass.
 
2014-02-26 03:12:14 AM  
They're actually using a justification nowadays? I've been so used to the CPD's good old fashioned, fark you, in your face racial profiling all this time.
 
2014-02-26 03:16:00 AM  
There were 2194 shooting victims in Chicago last year. I don't have a ready list of arrestees, but I'm guessing it's way, way fewer that 2194. Until you bring succesful prosecutions close to the perpetration rate it's still something most will consider favorable odds.

Cops coming around to spook the youths might have some effect on shooting rates, and the magic formula is something like : poor, single parent with history of giving or taking domestic violence, cousin or closer shot or convicted of shooting, and drop out. Basically, exposed to violence and unwilling or unable to learn.

Need to shoot this over to the Chicago school of economics. See what the freaks can get from it.
 
2014-02-26 03:18:27 AM  

OhioUGrad: fusillade762: Most crimes are committed by poor people, so put all the poor people in jail. Brilliant!

And a lot of poor people just happen to be minorities...double win!


And most people who've been in jail tend to be unable to get better jobs so they stay poor, so we get to throw them in jail again! Double plus good!
 
2014-02-26 03:20:45 AM  
" These people, who are placed on a "heat list," are visited by police officers who tell them that they are considered pre-criminals"

Thanx for the warning. I'll be sure to get a pre-alibi. I'll also be sure to consider my habits and change them since you're obviously aware of how I've been doing things.
 
2014-02-26 03:26:02 AM  
Lulz. So much butthurt in so few posts.
 
2014-02-26 03:27:41 AM  
 Illinois needs to just secede from the Union
 
2014-02-26 03:35:32 AM  
The clearance rates (ie - when a suspect has been prosecuted) for violent crime is way down from 1970, particularly murder.  This profiling is just the latest disgrace of a much larger policy disaster.

In 1970 Chicago had about 4.7 officers per 1,000 people.
In 2010 Chicago had about 5.1 officers per 1,000 people.

So police per capita has stay about the same.  So why the drop in violent crime clearance rates?


1970:

img.fark.net

2010:
img.fark.net
^While the total number of clearances for violent crimes has dropped from 27k in 1970 to 10k to 2010, chicago police also made 9,600 drug-related arrests.  This seems kinda silly to me.  Police have always had watch lists, but this is the first time I've ever heard the term "pre-criminal" used.  Why not instead focus on arresting violent criminals rather than arresting people who are engaging in consensual behavior?  Then we could reduce violent crime, lock up more violent offenders, and stop slipping down the slope of invading people's constitutional right to privacy.
 
2014-02-26 03:52:03 AM  
FTA: "The Chicago Police Department has ramped up the use of its "predictive analysis" system to identify people it believes are likely to commit crimes."

This is nothing new. Pot is illegal because "black men smoke pot and it makes them want to rape white women."  DUI is a crime because a drunk person might cause an accident. The list goes on and on, and most people approve of it.
 
2014-02-26 03:54:31 AM  
Has it ever occurred to the cops that if there are no cops on this list, that the profile doesn't work?
 
2014-02-26 03:55:56 AM  
With Detroit making Robocop a reality (short of robots and Delta City, plenty of Omnicorp), this is not surprising.
 
2014-02-26 04:03:04 AM  
Consider the effects of treating someone as guilty of crimes they haven't committed, especially younger folks.

You know that when someone has repeatedly accused and treated you badly based on something you haven't done that it's crossed your mind that you might as well be actually guilty of it.

"If you're going to do the time, might as well do the crime".

Research has shown quite clearly that if you take a group of kids and treat them as either very smart or very stupid there will be a measurable effect from that.
 
2014-02-26 04:13:39 AM  

Lsherm: shiat like this is why I stay the hell off Facebook.


There is a list of people hiding things too.
 
2014-02-26 04:20:24 AM  
Embarrasing.
 
2014-02-26 04:26:42 AM  

wildcardjack: OhioUGrad: fusillade762: Most crimes are committed by poor people, so put all the poor people in jail. Brilliant!

And a lot of poor people just happen to be minorities...double win!

And most people who've been in jail tend to be unable to get better jobs so they stay poor, so we get to throw them in jail again! Double plus good!


So it's settled, all poor minorities should just be in prison for life......and we should turn them into work camps to help the wealthy and then give the wealthy a tax cut.for keeping jobs in America.
 
2014-02-26 04:31:54 AM  
"without insight into how the system runs its numbers, we have no way of debating and validating the way it weighs different statistics"

Yet the "author" spends half the article pretending to know exactly how the program works. That's some fine journalism there, Lou.
 
2014-02-26 04:33:31 AM  

namatad: if people knew how the list was created, you can game the list.


Yes, criminals could game the list. But you know who else would want to know how the list was created? Someone who is innocent and doesn't belong on the list in the first place.
 
2014-02-26 04:43:29 AM  
Prison is a failed concept.
* Those that get released have a seriously hard time getting back to being a positive member of society. (Those that wish to, anyway).
* People become victims to those released when those released realize they are unable to be a positive member of society and resort to the lawlessness that got them in trouble in the first place.
It's pretty much always a lose-lose proposition.

I won't pretend that I have even the slightest idea what would work in lieu of prisons but there has to be something.
I'm not condoning nor making light of anything a prisoner had previously been guilty of or what their intentions are for bettering themselves or not, but there has to be some better way of going about this whole rehabilitation thing than what we're currently doing because all it seems to do is create repeat offenders when that could be avoided, somehow.
At least mitigated better.
 
2014-02-26 04:44:28 AM  

Nofun: The clearance rates (ie - when a suspect has been prosecuted) for violent crime is way down from 1970, particularly murder.  This profiling is just the latest disgrace of a much larger policy disaster.

In 1970 Chicago had about 4.7 officers per 1,000 people.
In 2010 Chicago had about 5.1 officers per 1,000 people.

So police per capita has stay about the same.  So why the drop in violent crime clearance rates?



Because before they'd take the black man who was arrested for something else close to the scene, charge him, and convict him.  All it took was some half-blind old lady to say "Yep, it was him!"   It was absolutely insane.

You don't seriously think they had a 90% clearance rate on murder without doing that, do you?  Half the people killed in the city are drug dealers or hookers.  There were no cameras, no DNA databases.  How would they catch those killers?
 
2014-02-26 04:51:20 AM  

robohobo: Lulz. So much butthurt in so few posts.


Man and can you just imagine the sorry slate society would be in if people like you weren't around to type bullshiat like this.
 
2014-02-26 04:57:40 AM  
Seems like they're just applying some kind of basic statistical analysis to their database. Whether it's ethical is a good topic for discussion, but the author of tfa seems to spend his time attacking its validity with great vitriol ('superstitious, pre-rational way of approaching any problem').

The analysis is likely as valid as that used in any other statistical context - and likely more-so than in (say) early-stage clinical trials, where sample sizes can be very tiny.
 
2014-02-26 04:57:41 AM  

VendorXeno: robohobo: Lulz. So much butthurt in so few posts.

Man and can you just imagine the sorry slate society would be in if people like you weren't around to type bullshiat like this.


Welp, I'm thoroughly chastised. Good on you, social justice warrior.
 
2014-02-26 05:01:17 AM  
TFA: 'Asserting that you're doing science but you can't explain how you're doing it is a nonsense on its face.'

Well, that apparently rules out every trade-secret, ever. I guess (for example) Intel's chips aren't based on scientific principles because their internal design & manufacturing process isn't published.
 
2014-02-26 05:11:34 AM  
next step is that if you are on the secret list
that you are not allowed to leave the area
(similar to no-fly-list)

or have special permission
 
2014-02-26 05:31:20 AM  

jshine: Well, that apparently rules out every trade-secret, ever. I guess (for example) Intel's chips aren't based on scientific principles because their internal design & manufacturing process isn't published.


They sell the chips, they're in my computer right now.  With the right tools you can look at the devices on the chip in gory detail.  They also publish papers and patents by the thousands per year.  Billions of dollars from investors who would be pissed if they are making shiat up keeps their scientific staff in check if nothing else.  But there is a lot else.


Langdon_777: Embarrasing.


No, it's not embarrassing because you're gonna find em and you're gonna air em out.
 
2014-02-26 05:41:39 AM  

Bacontastesgood: jshine: Well, that apparently rules out every trade-secret, ever. I guess (for example) Intel's chips aren't based on scientific principles because their internal design & manufacturing process isn't published.

They sell the chips, they're in my computer right now.  With the right tools you can look at the devices on the chip in gory detail.  They also publish papers and patents by the thousands per year.  Billions of dollars from investors who would be pissed if they are making shiat up keeps their scientific staff in check if nothing else.  But there is a lot else.


Langdon_777: Embarrasing.

No, it's not embarrassing because you're gonna find em and you're gonna air em out.


While Intel may publish plenty (it's a large company), there are certainly plenty of trade secrets also. If you were to try to reproduce one of their chips from scratch, I'm sure you'd find the open literature tremendously insufficient.

Just one process step in the semiconductor fab processes may have dozens of parameters: chamber pressure, sputtering current, etc. That those manufacturing details are kept secret doesn't mean they're invalid.
 
2014-02-26 05:43:25 AM  
Welp, one more pilot program in place.  Expect this to spread.  Hell the government is sorta already doing this with their massive data collection.  You might as well lie back and enjoy, because it's going to happen.
 
2014-02-26 05:48:57 AM  
Cripe, 35 posts in and no speculation about Obama being on the list? Fark is losing it.
 
2014-02-26 05:52:06 AM  

mtrac: Cripe, 35 posts in and no speculation about Obama being on the list? Fark is losing it.


As a politician, he consorts mostly with known-criminals (i.e., other politicians). I think it's safe to assume he's on the list.
 
2014-02-26 05:52:14 AM  
31.media.tumblr.com

They treat me like a criminal. I'll end up a criminal.

/hot
 
2014-02-26 05:54:59 AM  

Nofun: The clearance rates (ie - when a suspect has been prosecuted) for violent crime is way down from 1970, particularly murder.  This profiling is just the latest disgrace of a much larger policy disaster.

In 1970 Chicago had about 4.7 officers per 1,000 people.
In 2010 Chicago had about 5.1 officers per 1,000 people.

So police per capita has stay about the same.  So why the drop in violent crime clearance rates?


1970:



2010:

^While the total number of clearances for violent crimes has dropped from 27k in 1970 to 10k to 2010, chicago police also made 9,600 drug-related arrests.  This seems kinda silly to me.  Police have always had watch lists, but this is the first time I've ever heard the term "pre-criminal" used.  Why not instead focus on arresting violent criminals rather than arresting people who are engaging in consensual behavior?  Then we could reduce violent crime, lock up more violent offenders, and stop slipping down the slope of invading people's constitutional right to privacy.


On the positive side, rape was completely eliminated between 1970 and 2010. So there's that.
 
2014-02-26 06:15:20 AM  
tomwhahappen.files.wordpress.com

/Note the sloping forehead denoting stupidity.
//And the shirtless bondage denoting kinky gayity.
 
2014-02-26 06:18:20 AM  
The prisons aren't gonna fill themselves.

/Welcome to your dystopia, er, future
 
2014-02-26 06:21:21 AM  

namatad: "The CPD refuses to share the names of the people on its secret watchlist"
well duh

1) the police/authorities have always kept of list of people of interest. so not completely sure how this is SHOCKING NEWS

2) of course you dont want to SHARE the list ...

3) if people knew how the list was created, you can game the list. kind of like testing and probing airport security to find all its weaknesses.

next you are going to tell me that they should patrol more in high crime areas and less in low crime areas.

meh, I hate the chicago cops as much as the next guy, but meh

/we do really need a citizens' watch group which has access to the police and watches what they do.
/FFS why havent we legalized consensual crimes yet and solved most of the crime "problems"


Because after dropping trillions on the war on poverty we still have ghettos that rife with crime and some people want it this way.
 
2014-02-26 06:23:56 AM  
Is it wrong that I'm more offended by how poorly that article was written than by Chicago cops resorting to pseudoscience-justified racial profiling?  In my defense it's really awful even by Boingboing standards (although I did like how the writer managed to unintentionally liven up a few stale cliches with malapropisms like "it is a nonsense on its face" and "cloak themselves in the mantel of science").

And then I read the bio, and it turns out this hack (Cory Doctorow) is a published author? and according to
Google; a successfulone at that?

Jesus farking Christ.
 
2014-02-26 06:31:31 AM  

jshine: Seems like they're just applying some kind of basic statistical analysis to their database. Whether it's ethical is a good topic for discussion, but the author of tfa seems to spend his time attacking its validity with great vitriol ('superstitious, pre-rational way of approaching any problem').

The analysis is likely as valid as that used in any other statistical context - and likely more-so than in (say) early-stage clinical trials, where sample sizes can be very tiny.


Their use of the current data may be true and honest, however, the manner in which the data was created may have skewed the initial data points to the point of making that one point weigh heavier than it should.
 
2014-02-26 06:37:15 AM  

DrPainMD: FTA: "The Chicago Police Department has ramped up the use of its "predictive analysis" system to identify people it believes are likely to commit crimes."

This is nothing new. Pot is illegal because "black men smoke pot and it makes them want to rape white women."  DUI is a crime because a drunk person might cause an accident. The list goes on and on, and most people approve of it.


Didn't see anything in there claiming black men smoke pot and rape white women. And pretty sure volumes of publications have confirmed that DUI does actually significantly increases the risk of an accident (as opposed to "might") regardless of race/ethnicity. Isn't this where fark's anti-racism crowd should stand up and say "its poverty not race that is the cause of higher rates of criminal activity", and if this is the case (as they claim for many other topics) then the law-enforcement system is not racist at all.

/a little tongue in cheek
//feeding the troll?
 
2014-02-26 06:37:51 AM  

Gunther: Is it wrong that I'm more offended by how poorly that article was written than by Chicago cops resorting to pseudoscience-justified racial profiling?  In my defense it's really awful even by Boingboing standards (although I did like how the writer managed to unintentionally liven up a few stale cliches with malapropisms like "it is a nonsense on its face" and "cloak themselves in the mantel of science").

And then I read the bio, and it turns out this hack (Cory Doctorow) is a published author? and according toGoogle; a successfulone at that?

Jesus farking Christ.


He's a hero in nerd circles. The guy who writes the XKCD comic practically licks the guy's boots.
 
2014-02-26 06:53:45 AM  
What pisses me of is not so much that they've compiled a list of 400 people who by their social contacts are supposedly likely to commit crime, it's that they show up and talk to these people like they're criminals when they've done absolutely nothing wrong. If they hadn't been involved in crime before, being singled out as a likely criminal and treated as such is likely to turn them to it.

It's so farking stupid. Ok, you've identified (or think you've identified) the 400 people most at risk of falling into a criminal lifestyle, but who haven't yet, who are going to overwhelmingly been young people between the ages of 16 and 30. Do you:

a)  At the very most, send a social worker to their house to perhaps help them find employment, other useful activities, or drug treatment that might keep them out of crime
b) Harass them and treat them like a pre-criminal, thus virtually ensuring your stupid predictions come through.

Most cops have an IQ slightly above room temperature, so it's no surprise it's the later.
 
2014-02-26 07:10:38 AM  
They could always adopt Stop and Frisk.
 
2014-02-26 07:29:48 AM  
Do the pre-cogs look like this?

cdn-www.cracked.com
 
2014-02-26 07:30:29 AM  
As a white suburbanite, I am shocked that this is occurring.

No, I would never live in the inner city. Why do you ask?
 
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