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(Mustang News)   University demands guest list of off campus parties, while banning hard alcohol and drinking games there, also plans to force students to live on campus for first two years. Back tracks after hearing about things called 1st and 4th Amendments   (mustangnews.net) divider line 169
    More: Asinine, Cal Poly, Associated Students Inc., students' union, Dang Guo, student leader, Cesar Chavez  
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9043 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2014 at 11:22 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-25 07:33:32 PM
I don't know about the whole list, but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

I also seem to remember that some dorms/apartments on campus were not available to freshmen.
 
2014-02-25 07:37:58 PM
Double. Secret, probation.
 
2014-02-25 07:46:37 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't know about the whole list, but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

I also seem to remember that some dorms/apartments on campus were not available to freshmen.


Ayup. That was the rule at OSU. Though I seem to have slipped through the cracks when I left the frat I was rushing after my first semester and got my own apartment with a friend. It made us quite popular with the freshmen girls :)
 
2014-02-25 08:36:09 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.


And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.
 
2014-02-25 08:42:51 PM
You gotta FIGHT for your RIGHT to PAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAY

/It's in the constitution, man
//First and fourth amendments
 
2014-02-25 08:50:06 PM

Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.


It's a fairly common policy.  Usually it works by the school requiring you to either prove that you're living at and commuting from home, or pay for a dorm room.  Now, you could just pay for the dorm room and then live somewhere else, and I knew students who did that, but most people aren't going to waste money like that.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.

If they're registered student organizations the school can have sway over what goes on even if it isn't technically on campus.  Rules regulating official fraternity/sorority parties aren't unprecedented.  Of course, it's hard for them to police unofficial gatherings that aren't technically being hosted by the group.

At the end of the day it's CYA for the school - they don't want someone to die from alcohol poisoning, get sexually assaulted, or drive drunk and hit somebody in any way related to the school officially.  If it happens at a party involving students at the school, but held off campus and not under the banner of any organization recognized by the school, it's easier for the school to distance itself.
 
2014-02-25 09:36:32 PM

Flab: And people go for it? Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.


Kind of have to, or they won't admit you or will kick you out. Also, there are colleges/universities that forbid freshmen from having a car.

Of course, there are ways around this if you're willing to fight or otherwise raise a stink. My school was one that mandated all freshmen live on campus, and I was told there were no exceptions. I told them I had a full time job, had already been living on my own for 6+ months, and would not live on campus nor buy a meal plan. And you know what? I kept living on my own and buying my food wherever the hell I wanted. I was there on scholarship, so that might have helped me out. I don't really know. But it is possible. It just depends on how much of a fight you are willing to put up.
 
2014-02-25 09:40:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: It's a fairly common policy. Usually it works by the school requiring you to either prove that you're living at and commuting from home, or pay for a dorm room. Now, you could just pay for the dorm room and then live somewhere else, and I knew students who did that, but most people aren't going to waste money like that.


Maybe it's because my university had 35,000 students.  but I can't begin to fathom why any college would even consider being in charge of a 15,000-20,000 dorm rooms.  Fark, the Atlantis resort in the Bahamas is not that big!

TuteTibiImperes: If they're registered student organizations the school can have sway over what goes on even if it isn't technically on campus

.  Rules regulating official fraternity/sorority parties aren't unprecedented.  Of course, it's hard for them to police unofficial gatherings that aren't technically being hosted by the group. .

Hmm...  So faternity XYZ can't hold tequila shots parties, but if a few members of said fraternity and their girlfirends just happen to be watching the game on tv and someone takes out the Cuervo and a few limes, it's all good?  I smell a loophole...

TuteTibiImperes: At the end of the day it's CYA for the school - they don't want someone to die from alcohol poisoning, get sexually assaulted, or drive drunk and hit somebody in any way related to the school officially. If it happens at a party involving students at the school, but held off campus and not under the banner of any organization recognized by the school, it's easier for the school to distance itself.


In my experience, even if the party was held on campus by an officially recognized organisation (e.g.: the undergrad engineering students union sold about 300 cases of beer per week during happy hours to finance various extra-curicular activites, and the on-campus fully licensed bar was owned and operated by the uni's federation of student unions), the administration would simply say "They are grown adults and we don't have anything to say other than make sure they obey the law".
 
2014-02-25 09:45:36 PM

Pokey.Clyde: Flab: And people go for it? Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Kind of have to, or they won't admit you or will kick you out. Also, there are colleges/universities that forbid freshmen from having a car.

Of course, there are ways around this if you're willing to fight or otherwise raise a stink. My school was one that mandated all freshmen live on campus, and I was told there were no exceptions. I told them I had a full time job, had already been living on my own for 6+ months, and would not live on campus nor buy a meal plan. And you know what? I kept living on my own and buying my food wherever the hell I wanted. I was there on scholarship, so that might have helped me out. I don't really know. But it is possible. It just depends on how much of a fight you are willing to put up.


The school I went to required Freshmen to live on campus their first year, unless they were over age 20 or working full time during the school year.  They really didn't check all that closely you just needed a letter from a local company stating you were a full time employee.  Usually these exceptions are fairly easy to get.
 
2014-02-25 10:07:15 PM
Flab:

In my experience, even if the party was held on campus by an officially recognized organisation (e.g.: the undergrad engineering students union sold about 300 cases of beer per week during happy hours to finance various extra-curicular activites, and the on-campus fully licensed bar was owned and operated by the uni's federation of student unions), the administration would simply say "They are grown adults and we don't ha ...

I see you're from Canada, did you go to school there to?  I'm sure the rules and attitudes regarding alcohol differ pretty greatly even amongst US schools, but I had a friend who went to Queen's University in Kingston, ON, and the times I visited the attitude towards alcohol was far more relaxed than any school I've visited in the US.

I'm sure part of it is the difference in drinking age - in Canada there are freshman who can legally drink, and pretty much all sophomores and above can.  In the US it's not until the late Junior or Senior year when you can legally drink.

At my school they would never have allowed student groups to sell alcohol.  In fact, I was in a fraternity that was categorized as a professional organization instead of a social/greek and because of that classification we were not allowed to own a house a or host official events involving alcohol at all.  Of course that didn't stop us from throwing unofficial parties where alcohol was present in the homes or apartments rented by members.

The university even pushed for stronger alcohol regulations in the town.  For example - drink specials and discounted drinks during happy hours were forbidden anywhere in the city.  Some bars came up with clever ways around that.  Since drink specials weren't allowed, one bar set their regular price for Natty Light at 50 cents per, but only sold it one night per week.
 
2014-02-25 10:15:33 PM
Guest list.

The pretty
The witty
My good buddy New Wave Pancho, because he's cool despite his ridiculous hairdo
The guy with the turntable

The Dean's Wife
 
2014-02-25 10:22:30 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I see you're from Canada, did you go to school there to?


Yep.  Even commuted from home (that's another big difference between Canadian and American colleges, most people pick one of the local ones, unless you want to go in a very speficic field that's not offered locally)  until my dad got transfered out of town, so I only moved to the uni residences for my final year.

TuteTibiImperes: in Canada there are freshman who can legally drink

 
In Quebec, all freshmen can legally drink.  The drinking age is 18, and due to the way schools are set up, when you get to university, you are usually already 19.


I understand that this DOES make a difference.  If the colleges were responsible for minors, I'm sure they would have more stringent rules about on campus alcohol consumption.  But I still think their sphere of influence would end at the sidewalk in front of the main entrance.
 
2014-02-25 11:26:30 PM

Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.


Well, it only works if they can GUARANTEE incoming freshmen dorm space; not all colleges can do that. And they also then have to pay for kids who would otherwise find cheaper off-campus housing their first year.

All it really does is ensure kids run amok their second year instead of freshman year.
 
2014-02-25 11:28:06 PM
College has college rules.

Subby apparently never went to one.
 
2014-02-25 11:30:58 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't know about the whole list, but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

I also seem to remember that some dorms/apartments on campus were not available to freshmen.


That was the rule at MTU when I was there.

Freshman live on campus unless you're a local.

There are non-freshman halls/floors
 
2014-02-25 11:31:55 PM
Oh man, I miss university so much. All those hot chicks in class all day long and constant parties. Who goes to class anyways?

Oh wait, I went to the Engineering school. No girls, no parties and class was hard as balls.

/did manage to score with the hot girl in my program junior year
//she was a hard 7 but an EE 10+
 
2014-02-25 11:33:22 PM
In loco parentis: I thought that Purdue was the last to fall in the 1970s.

But Cal Poly???
 
2014-02-25 11:38:02 PM

Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.


"Home" is defined as 'where your parents live'... for the most part, when it comes to that rule. If your parents live in the same city and you stay there, you're usually exempted from taking a dorm room

And the whole 'freshmen must stay in the dorm' has got jack to do with their education like the universities so often say. It has to do with making sure all the dorm rooms are full. They make a metric shiatton of cash on dorm rooms. If they're trying to force students into taking a dorm for the first two years, then they built too many rooms to fill them with only freshmen.
 
2014-02-25 11:39:06 PM
I suppose a college can mandate conditions of admission involving living on campus, I'm spent my career working at urban campuses where we don't care where you live, just as long as you show up for classes, so I fail to see how they have any right to have much of a say about what happens off-campus unless the off-campus organizations are somehow related to the school.  So sure, make your students live on campus, have fun with taking on that responsibility (I hope you have retained some decent legal counsel), but whatever they do off campus is none of your damn business.
 
2014-02-25 11:39:33 PM
images.sodahead.com
 
2014-02-25 11:41:29 PM

ElLoco: Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.

"Home" is defined as 'where your parents live'... for the most part, when it comes to that rule. If your parents live in the same city and you stay there, you're usually exempted from taking a dorm room

And the whole 'freshmen must stay in the dorm' has got jack to do with their education like the universities so often say. It has to do with making sure all the dorm rooms are full. They make a metric shiatton of cash on dorm rooms. If they're trying to force students into taking a dorm for the first two years, then they built too many rooms to fill them with only freshmen.


What about orphans?  Or somebody that moves to the city, buys a single wide trailer and lives in it?  The university is farked when that hits the court system.
 
2014-02-25 11:42:36 PM
I have no problem with the on-campus living. It's pretty common. Alcohol can be a problem, but I recall a push a few years ago by university presidents to return the drinking age to 18 to reduce the problems they have with underage drinking.
 
2014-02-25 11:42:43 PM
Also the 21st amendment.
 
2014-02-25 11:44:33 PM
There was a bar in the student union where I attended university. We had legal keggers in the dorm. Every Friday and Saturday there were alcohol-fueled fraternity parties.

Now the campus is dry.

/pussies
 
2014-02-25 11:46:13 PM
and 4th amendment have nothing to do with this, dudebro.
 
2014-02-25 11:46:14 PM

Smeggy Smurf: ElLoco: Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.

"Home" is defined as 'where your parents live'... for the most part, when it comes to that rule. If your parents live in the same city and you stay there, you're usually exempted from taking a dorm room

And the whole 'freshmen must stay in the dorm' has got jack to do with their education like the universities so often say. It has to do with making sure all the dorm rooms are full. They make a metric shiatton of cash on dorm rooms. If they're trying to force students into taking a dorm for the first two years, then they built too many rooms to fill them with only freshmen.

What about orphans?  Or somebody that moves to the city, buys a single wide trailer and lives in it?  The university is farked when that hits the court system.


Any student who is no longer a dependent is free from those restrictions.

Seriously, this has been a standard policy for a decade or two at almost every university. Unless you can commute, you live on campus. And there's no constitutional barrier, because your matriculation in the school is a contract accepting those policies.
 
2014-02-25 11:47:40 PM
Also, as a public institution, this will prove problematic.  Private schools can be as weird and despotic as they want depending on whether or not accept federal funding for financial aid, etc. (for frightening examples, see those weird right-wing Christian 'colleges'), but public schools?  Not so much.
 
2014-02-25 11:51:17 PM

Smeggy Smurf: ElLoco: Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.

"Home" is defined as 'where your parents live'... for the most part, when it comes to that rule. If your parents live in the same city and you stay there, you're usually exempted from taking a dorm room

And the whole 'freshmen must stay in the dorm' has got jack to do with their education like the universities so often say. It has to do with making sure all the dorm rooms are full. They make a metric shiatton of cash on dorm rooms. If they're trying to force students into taking a dorm for the first two years, then they built too many rooms to fill them with only freshmen.

What about orphans?  Or somebody that moves to the city, buys a single wide trailer and lives in it?  The university is farked when that hits the court system.


All those are actually covered in the student manual, and they vary only slightly by university. And they have been covered for decades.
 
2014-02-25 11:54:08 PM

ElLoco: Smeggy Smurf: ElLoco: Flab: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

And people go for it?  Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere, and only accessible by a magical train, I don't see how that would make sense.

Also, I freely admit that I don't get Greek Life to begin with, but I don't see how a college can decide who can drink how much alcohol with whom outside of their property.

"Home" is defined as 'where your parents live'... for the most part, when it comes to that rule. If your parents live in the same city and you stay there, you're usually exempted from taking a dorm room

And the whole 'freshmen must stay in the dorm' has got jack to do with their education like the universities so often say. It has to do with making sure all the dorm rooms are full. They make a metric shiatton of cash on dorm rooms. If they're trying to force students into taking a dorm for the first two years, then they built too many rooms to fill them with only freshmen.

What about orphans?  Or somebody that moves to the city, buys a single wide trailer and lives in it?  The university is farked when that hits the court system.

All those are actually covered in the student manual, and they vary only slightly by university. And they have been covered for decades.


True.  On campus living requirements are fairly common, but it seems like this school is taking their policies a bit too far for a public institution.
 
2014-02-25 11:56:23 PM

Ikam: Also, as a public institution, this will prove problematic.  Private schools can be as weird and despotic as they want depending on whether or not accept federal funding for financial aid, etc. (for frightening examples, see those weird right-wing Christian 'colleges'), but public schools?  Not so much.


You do not have a right either under the law or the Constitution to a post secondary education. PERIOD. A post secondary institution has a lot of liberty to do what it wants regardless of whether its public or private status. The actual legal distinction between them is minimal to non-existent. Honestly, the headline was written by some 20 year old libertarian nutcase who understands nothing about higher education, the law, or the Constitution.
 
2014-02-25 11:57:06 PM
Iamnotacop.jpg
 
2014-02-25 11:57:31 PM
And technically, the IRS was never legally approved so I don't have to pay my taxes, mannnnn!
 
2014-02-25 11:57:35 PM
Subby needs to read the part of the first amendment about freedom of association.  No students are forced to attend this college, but when they do, they choose to abide by its rules.

It's no different than choosing to join a church that restricts behavior in such a way that it would be unconstitutional if the government did it.
 
2014-02-25 11:58:52 PM
Flab: Hmm... So faternity XYZ can't hold tequila shots parties, but if a few members of said fraternity and their girlfirends just happen to be watching the game on tv and someone takes out the Cuervo and a few limes, it's all good? I smell a loophole...

Nope... been tried.

http://mustangnews.net/mustang-news-feb-13-2014-greeks-off-probation -d ecosta-looking-into-reported-ifc-parties/


Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: College has college rules.

Subby apparently never went to one.


Subby here. I actually go here. I'm not involved in the Greek life (which is what the majority of these rules pertain to). That being said, name me a University (public) that forces sophomores to live on campus. Or transfer students. I won't hold my breath. I was a 21 year old sophomore, by the way. Fat chance I'd be forced to live on campus in dorms, let alone a dry campus.

Here are the new rules dealing with parties associated with Greek organizations:
http://mustangnews.net/greeks-off-probation-after-passing-party-regi st ration-policy/

 - A fraternity party is "any event an observer would associate with the fraternity or sorority." A frat bro and a couple of his bros over to watch the football game on Sunday? Frat party (again, who's the observer? Someone in Admin, I'm sure).

- Fraternities cannot host parties from one week before school starts until the end of the "rushing" period (mid quarter).  [ Subby note: Before school starts is the biggest party week there is. In fact, during the school year, parties aren't really held when class is in session. It's usually the week before Fall quarter, the weekend before Winter quarter, and Spring break (the week before Spring quarter) ]

- No parties during Finals week.   [Subby note: Makes sense, but most people are done with finals on Wendesday... so they can't party until Saturday?]

- Parties only permitted on days when the next day is not a "school day"; parties may not exceed 5 hours in length and must end by 1 AM. [Subby note: 5 hours? That's nothing. 1AM? Crap, last call at the bars is 1:30 or 1:45]

- "Day parties" must end by 8PM.

- Alcohol may not be served an hour prior to the end of the event. [Subby note: I'm sure the bars and SLOPD will love this. Everyone will leave the frat party, drive drunk down town, so they can drink for another 90 minutes]

- Fraternities may not supply alcohol. All alcohol must be BYOB or supplied by a 3rd party. Furthermore, "common sources" of alcohol are not allowed. These include but are not limited to: kegs, handles, cases, and other large volumes.  [Subby note: BYOB? Might as well stay home... Alcohol has to be kept in a common location. Why bring my beer for others to drink?]

- Individuals (fraternity members or not) of legal drinking age may bring beer totaling no more than 72 oz or one bottle (750ml) of wine.

- At the party, no hard alcohol, squeeze bottles, water bottles, beer bongs, party bongs, party balls, pitchers, tumblers, or other containers are permitted. No glass is permitted other than glass bottles of wine (750ml) in size or less. [Subby note: No water bottles? Sounds like a recipe for hangovers]

- No shots, drinking games, or other activities that encourage inappropriate drinking behaviors shall be allowed [Subby note: Remember kids, don't yell chug!]

- All parties must be closed events with a guest list[subby note: wait what?]

- Guest lists must be typed and finalized no later than 24 hours before the party.

- There shall be no advertising of a party [Subby note: I guess that's one way to prevent a party]

- Guests shall be marked off on a copy of the guest list when they arrive

- Chapters holding a party must develop a wristband system (no stamps, pens or markers)   [Subby note: The bars down here use a stamp system, if that]

- It is highly recommended that the verification of those who are of legal drinking age is  performed by hired security  [ Subby note: yeah that's really cheap ]

- All parties under 100 people must be registered at least 5 business days before the date it is taking  place

- All parties over 100 people must be registered at least 10 business days before the date it is taking  place

And here's the big one:

- follow up guest list must be submitted by Monday at 12 noon with the full names of all attendees and birthdates of all guests receiving wristbands.

[Subby note: I'm not in a frat. However, the school has no right to know what parties I've attended, what I've had to drink, and where I've been. That is need to know information, and the school -- a publicly funded institution -- does not need to know]
 
2014-02-26 12:00:32 AM

Begoggle: And technically, the IRS was never legally approved so I don't have to pay my taxes, mannnnn!


Sorry dude, that's only if the flags in their offices have gold fringes.....
 
2014-02-26 12:01:37 AM

Ikam: True.  On campus living requirements are fairly common, but it seems like this school is taking their policies a bit too far for a public institution.


They are, as a state institution. Private universities, and most especially religious universities tend to go waaaay farther than that. So far even that most have guidelines for where you or your vehicle can be seen when not on campus. Lubbock Christian University has people that keep their eyes on titty bar and liquor store parking lots. Finding your vehicle in the parking lot can result in probation, suspension, or removal from the university.
 
2014-02-26 12:02:24 AM

Ikam: Also, as a public institution, this will prove problematic.  Private schools can be as weird and despotic as they want depending on whether or not accept federal funding for financial aid, etc. (for frightening examples, see those weird right-wing Christian 'colleges'), but public schools?  Not so much.


If you read the rules, they specifically target parties thrown fraternities/sororities affiliated with the school.  In exchange for being a registered student organization, they agree to abide by the school's policies.

The rules apply to Kappa Alpha having a party at their frat house, not Tim and Eric throwing a shindig at their off-campus apartment.

There's nothing in the rules that remotely violates federal law.
 
2014-02-26 12:02:34 AM
Color me shocked that it is a Calif college that was trying to enforce these rules.

/liberals are all about choice, right?
 
2014-02-26 12:02:45 AM

SkyFlyer: [Subby note: I'm not in a frat. However, the school has no right to know what parties I've attended, what I've had to drink, and where I've been. That is need to know information, and the school -- a publicly funded institution -- does not need to know]


The school does have that right under the law. You do not have a right to a post secondary education. I do not understand what is so hard to grasp about that concept. If you do not like it, leave.
 
2014-02-26 12:02:49 AM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't know about the whole list, but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

I also seem to remember that some dorms/apartments on campus were not available to freshmen.


My wife's college (Hope in Holland, Michigan, private, Christian) required on-campus housing (or proof you were commuting from your parents' home) for... two (maybe three?) years.   Also, they had a rule where the opposite sex wasn't allowed in the dorm rooms past... 2 AM, I think. (Only got caught once... she had to write an essay about honesty, or some such nonsense.)  That was in 2004.
 
2014-02-26 12:05:02 AM

sprgrss: and 4th amendment have nothing to do with this, dudebro.


Actually it does when the school is requiring that a list of all students attending fraternity parties be handed over to administration the next day.


As for on campus living requirements are standard. Sure. For freshman. Maybe. But 2nd years? And Transfers? hahahaha. Yeah find me an example, please.

udhq: Subby needs to read the part of the first amendment about freedom of association. No students are forced to attend this college, but when they do, they choose to abide by its rules. It's no different than choosing to join a church that restricts behavior in such a way that it would be unconstitutional if the government did it.


Actually, as a publicly funded institution, they actually don't have right right to make rules abridging the bill of rights. Your third sentence is correct... a church isn't publicly funded (i.e. it is not the government). The school, however, is publicly funded (i.e. it is the government) Good try though.
 
2014-02-26 12:05:56 AM
That list of rules needed to end with

...and a partridge in a pear tree.
 
2014-02-26 12:06:42 AM
My school required all freshmen to live in the dorms, then accidentally accepted too many students in my junior year.  Most rooms were doubles, and some were converted to house three students; a bed was added, and a dresser, but it was still obviously designed for two students (two closets, symmetry).  I would have been pissed to end up in that situation without some kind of discount or other perk.

Commuting is a big issue.  If they don't provide sufficient dorms, they have to consider how else all of their students are going to get there.  If the bus system is poor, then they need parking structures.

Personally, I appreciated living on campus.  It's a great social network and everyone around you is going through the same issues.
 
2014-02-26 12:08:45 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Ikam: Also, as a public institution, this will prove problematic.  Private schools can be as weird and despotic as they want depending on whether or not accept federal funding for financial aid, etc. (for frightening examples, see those weird right-wing Christian 'colleges'), but public schools?  Not so much.

If you read the rules, they specifically target parties thrown fraternities/sororities affiliated with the school.  In exchange for being a registered student organization, they agree to abide by the school's policies.

The rules apply to Kappa Alpha having a party at their frat house, not Tim and Eric throwing a shindig at their off-campus apartment.

There's nothing in the rules that remotely violates federal law.


You would be correct if those rules only applied to students in fraternities. However, take someone like me. I have friends in frats. However, I'm not in a frat. I get invited to a frat party. I attend. The school now knows. That is an extreme overreach.
 
2014-02-26 12:10:00 AM

sirbissel: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I don't know about the whole list, but I'm pretty sure that there's been colleges for a long time who require their freshmen to live on-campus if they're not commuting from home.

I also seem to remember that some dorms/apartments on campus were not available to freshmen.

My wife's college (Hope in Holland, Michigan, private, Christian) required on-campus housing (or proof you were commuting from your parents' home) for... two (maybe three?) years.   Also, they had a rule where the opposite sex wasn't allowed in the dorm rooms past... 2 AM, I think. (Only got caught once... she had to write an essay about honesty, or some such nonsense.)  That was in 2004.


Small, christian, not publicly funded. The last two are particularly key.
 
2014-02-26 12:10:54 AM

SkyFlyer: hey actually don't have right right to make rules abridging the bill of rights


That's true but it's besides the point because the rules do not actually abridge the bill of rights. Which Amendment? Not the 4th. The 4A only applies to the state's police power. Are these rules to be enforced by the police? No. Then no 4A for you.
 
2014-02-26 12:12:16 AM

worlddan: SkyFlyer: [Subby note: I'm not in a frat. However, the school has no right to know what parties I've attended, what I've had to drink, and where I've been. That is need to know information, and the school -- a publicly funded institution -- does not need to know]

The school does have that right under the law. You do not have a right to a post secondary education. I do not understand what is so hard to grasp about that concept. If you do not like it, leave.


Actually, they may not, depending on the situation.  The school could require a guest list for any event held on campus property.  A school could require a guest list for any event hosted or run by an affiliated student organization.  I think the law may not allow the school to demand guest lists for events held off campus and not run by affiliated student organizations.

Just being a student at a school doesn't give the school the right to invade your privacy at will when not on campus or using the school's resources.  There's a difference between acting as an individual and acting as a member of an organization affiliated with the school however.  In the latter case it's not unreasonable to expect members of those organizations to abide by the regulations the school has set up for such organizations when those members are acting on behalf of the organization.
 
2014-02-26 12:12:28 AM

Flab: Unless that college was in the middle of nowhere


Washington State University is surrounded on all sides by wheat fields and most of the people living in Pullman are in nursing homes.
 
2014-02-26 12:14:58 AM

worlddan: SkyFlyer: hey actually don't have right right to make rules abridging the bill of rights

That's true but it's besides the point because the rules do not actually abridge the bill of rights. Which Amendment? Not the 4th. The 4A only applies to the state's police power. Are these rules to be enforced by the police? No. Then no 4A for you.


The Bill of Rights protects the people from the government -- not just publicly funded security forces (aka police). A private university would be within their rights to do this. A publicly funded one, not so much.
 
2014-02-26 12:15:55 AM
Never ceases to amaze me how people would pay so much money to be tyrannized.
 
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