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(ABC)   Tufts Medical Center says a teenager has mitochondrial disease. Boston Children's Hospital disagrees--by declaring the symptoms psychosomatic, taking her from her parents, and denying her any medical treatment except to say it's all in her head   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 113
    More: Followup, mitochondrial disease, Tufts Medical Center, Children's Hospital Boston, foster care  
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8919 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2014 at 6:47 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-25 08:04:45 PM  
5 votes:

hardinparamedic: Elegy: According to the Boston globe article I linked above, you're wrong.

The doctor at Tuft's, Korson, referred her to a Boston Children's doctor for gastrointestinal problems.

Also, Korson happens to be the "chief of metabolism" at Tufts, whatever that means and for whatever it's worth.

From The Article You Linked: In short order, a team of different Children's doctors had disputed Korson's working diagnosis of mitochondrial disease for Justina and accused her parents of medical child abuse.

She was never definitively diagnosed. That term means "We are pretty sure that's what it is, but let's ask someone else what they think"


No, I was talking about your accusation that they were doctor shopping. The article I links notes that a social worker wrote a report that claimed a doctor at Boston Children's thoughtthey were doctor shopping.

But they technically weren't - they were referred to Boston Children's by their primary care physician, Korson - and the accusation was heresy.

I don't doubt that these people - the mother in particular - are extremely difficult to deal with and do themselves no favors with the people in the system.

But what are you going to do with things like this:

Yet [an internal BCH investigation on the case] cknowledged some contradictions in her care at Children's. For instance, early on the staff had been suspicious of Linda's demand that her daughter get a temporary feeding tube in order to increase her nourishment. But immediately after the parents lost custody, the report noted, Children's had determined that the feeding tube was indeed medically necessary and Justina was given one.

?

Sounds like the medical staff hasn't liked the mother from the outset. She sounds like a holy farking terror to anyone not her kids.

The girl herself wants to go home - I think it should be her choice anyway, at 15 she is old enough to have a voice in her own care.

It also doesn't sound like what the mother and doctor are suggesting that that far outside the realm of possibility, especially since she has an older sister with the same diagnosis from the same doctor. I suppose the doctor could be crazy, too.
2014-02-25 07:17:06 PM  
5 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: Ah, here ya go, ftfa:

"The court really didn't accomplish much," said Mathew Staves of Liberty Counsel , a conservative organization that advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," who was at hearing.

//that should clear it up.


Not really. The family wants to treat their daughter medically at Tufts because they believe she has a mitochondrial disease. Boston Children's Hospital thinks it is a psychological condition and has kept the daughter from the parents. That kind of behavior does not really fit with the stereotypical conservative, religious person who thinks God will solve the issue.

The story is missing a lot of background facts. How long has the daughter been being treated by Tufts? Has she previously been sick or have their treatments not really helped? Some articles mention she had this diagnosed years ago and only went to Children's because of a severe case of the flu. Then while at Children's they diagnosed her with a psychological disorder that they believe was caused by the family. The daughter has now been in the hospital's custody for the past year and apparently the daughter has gotten worse.

Nothing really makes sense with the story of why Children's would keep this kid. Or not even get another opinion from another hospital in that entire time. It just seems very negligent of Children's to not go for a second opinion after a year of little improvement especially after a previous hospital had diagnosed her, treated her, and seemingly she had no issues. Another article mentioned UMass medical center may be given permission to take over treatment to defuse tensions.
2014-02-25 07:13:52 PM  
5 votes:
The older daughter also has a medically verified case of mitochondrial disorder....so I doubt the parents are making anything up

This story has been out for a year now...the family pretty much just ignored the gag order...I do not blame them

This is a kidnapping, plain and simple. This family has shown much restraint. I think a lot of folks having a hospital kidnap their child would be capping some hospital folks
2014-02-25 07:11:08 PM  
5 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


So Tufts is a fake hospital to you. Got it.
2014-02-25 06:12:05 PM  
5 votes:
From the stories I've been told via my super intelligent doctor friend, the number of "weird illnesses" in children that are actually some combination of Munchhausen Syndrome by Proxy and psychosomatic illness is surprisingly high.
2014-02-25 09:22:58 PM  
4 votes:
Yeah, this article is so full of OUTRAGE that I'm inclined to not take it seriously. Regardless, Children's has my vote, for several reasons:

1. As previously mentioned in this thread, they have a large number of specialists that have certainly evaluated the patient, and a consensus must have been reached for this action to be taken.

2. Regardless of what laypeople think, doctors DO typically want what is best for their patients. One doctor is NOT enough to get a child taken from the parents. Social work is an independent department that takes this very, very seriously.

3. Just because she hasn't improved (per mom, that is) doesn't mean they aren't helping her. She could be much WORSE off if she had not been treated at Children's. The article also says she was in a wheelchair before she came in to Children's, so she hasn't drastically worsened like the article makes it out to be.

4. The fact that she was referred for diagnosis to Children's does NOT mean her condition is non-psychosomatic. It means they aren't sure what's wrong with her. And if Tufts was so sure about their diagnosis, they would not have sent her there in the first place. They can handle GI issues. That's one of the most basic departments in a hospital.
2014-02-25 08:42:45 PM  
4 votes:

badhatharry: bborchar: badhatharry: hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.

Everybody is covering their ass.

Well, if she is misdiagnosed either way, the family could sue...and the parents are real nutjobs, whether or not they are lying.

I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.


They are nutjobs because instead of doing whatever they can to get their child back, they are more interested in being proven right.  Whether the kid has an illness or not, I don't know, and I can't even hazard a guess because we don't have enough information.  But they aren't doing anything they are supposed to do to get her back...not a SINGLE thing.  They argue with the doctors, bring needles to visits, argue with the social workers, break gag orders and threaten to sue medical facilities that would take care of their daughter without even seeing it.  THAT'S why I think they are nuts...I don't have to know whether or not the child is crazy or actually sick to realize that the parents are attention whores.
2014-02-25 08:23:38 PM  
4 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: The older daughter also has a medically verified case of mitochondrial disorder....so I doubt the parents are making anything up  This story has been out for a year now...the family pretty much just ignored the gag order...I do not blame them


Yeah, I was reading about this last week on HuffPo.  The older sister has been treated by world class doctors and no one has suspected abuse.  Then when they take the younger daughter to Boston to see a GI doctor, they call a in psychologist instead (while refusing to let the referred GI doctor see her) and then refuse to let the parents take her home.  It's not like they treated her for months, and gradually suspected abuse.  No, they called a psychologist and the state DCF that same morning, without ever having a medical doctor examine her.  (This according to HuffPo stories on her.)

We don't have all the facts, but I have to admit I'm somehow having trouble seeing the reasonableness of the actions taken at Boston.  It doesn't surprise me though the usual cast of political fundies here who have already decided her fate based on their own political views though.    Hopefully we will get more information later, so the rational people on fark could weigh in with a non-nutjob opinion.
2014-02-25 06:59:34 PM  
4 votes:

Ow! That was my feelings!: Ah, here ya go, ftfa:

"The court really didn't accomplish much," said Mathew Staves of Liberty Counsel , a conservative organization that advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," who was at hearing.

//that should clear it up.


Strangely, just by having someone like him involved,it makes me think the hospital is doing the correct thing without any additional information.
2014-02-25 06:56:06 PM  
4 votes:

wyltoknow: Yeeeah, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this hospital wouldnt be inclined to go through the hellish process of removing a child from their parents custody and receive all the obvious negative publicity just because they felt like stirring the pot.


And the other hospital was just doing procedures on the girl for shiats and giggles? One hospital good, other bad? Based on?
2014-02-25 06:51:48 PM  
4 votes:

cman: We are only hearing one side of the story

Before everyone goes apeshiat lets remember that


2 sets of doctors, 2 different opinions. Instead of state sanctioned kidnapping, how about a tiebreaker first.
2014-02-25 06:37:05 PM  
4 votes:

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Oh, and then there's the upsetting prevalence of "there's something wrong with my child" claims that are answered with "well, you can start by not abusing them physically".

Related to this, it's not actually terribly easy to get a child taken away from a parent (less easy than it really should be, even in cases when abuse seems obvious), regardless of what some alarmists may say.

It's pretty likely there's a lot more going on here than the parents' "she was fine and now she's a disaster, and it's cuz of her mitochondria" story.


Yup.  And, because of HIPAA (and a gag order imposed by the judge in this case), the hospital & state can't explain what's going on, leaving the parents' story as the only one getting any publicity.
2014-02-25 06:30:01 PM  
4 votes:

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Oh, and then there's the upsetting prevalence of "there's something wrong with my child" claims that are answered with "well, you can start by not abusing them physically".


Related to this, it's not actually terribly easy to get a child taken away from a parent (less easy than it really should be, even in cases when abuse seems obvious), regardless of what some alarmists may say.

It's pretty likely there's a lot more going on here than the parents' "she was fine and now she's a disaster, and it's cuz of her mitochondria" story.
2014-02-25 11:04:32 PM  
3 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


You mean like the doctors at Tufts?

/RTFA. Sounds like there's a medical pissing contest going on with this girl and her family in the middle.
2014-02-25 08:30:40 PM  
3 votes:

bborchar: badhatharry: hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.

Everybody is covering their ass.

Well, if she is misdiagnosed either way, the family could sue...and the parents are real nutjobs, whether or not they are lying.


I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.
2014-02-25 08:23:05 PM  
3 votes:

hardinparamedic: badhatharry: The doctor that called CPS thinks that mitochondrial disease is not a real disease.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

Please cite where he said that.


That is what the father said. She was sent the Boston Children's to see a gastro doctor. Before he even got to see her she was seen by a young neurologist. He told the father that mito is not real and believed she was being put through many unnecessary medical procedures. Enter CPS. Kid taken away. Gag order put on everyone involved.
2014-02-25 08:22:49 PM  
3 votes:
Almost every time we've ever had a case anywhere similar to this we get a couple of days of OMG OUTRAGE HOW DARE THEY DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING and then it turns out the parents are giant humungous massive scumbags of one order or another.

Also, anyone who manages to 'faint' in court isn't doing herself a lot of credit in terms of making me believe her daughter's condition isn't psychosomatic.

Also like 20 people so far have pointed out the sheer # of doctor's likely involved at Boston, and the steps the process goes through from hospital to DHS to investigation before it even reaches this far.

10 gets you 20 this turns out to be another 'omg, the governments stole mah baby because of my medical marijuana card!...and I keep dropping her on her head'
2014-02-25 08:15:33 PM  
3 votes:

beaverfetus: eh, remember no pediatricians like calling CPS, not a one. Ton of work, really depressing, and on occasion it sets of a shiat storm like this. They called because they thought it was in the child's best interest, whether they turn out to be correct or not.


Don't forget that this is a hospital we're talking about, not an MD's private practice. They usually report suspicions to social work, who get involved and do their own investigation before calling CPS.

This was not one doctor's decision. That's what people seem to be missing here.
2014-02-25 07:46:08 PM  
3 votes:

MyRandomName: By the way, those of you claiming Boston Children's Hospital wins over Tufts because "fark you they do"...

It's not like BCH has ever, EVER, been guilty of malpractice.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/12/19/jury_finds_2_d oc tors_at_childrens_hospital_caused_boys_death/

BCH is infallible apparently, but Tufts is wrong.

Instead of a third opinion you are advocating for the State to be the Medical Doctor of the child as they are the ones choosing which opinion is valid and which is not.

Instead of the state deciding which opinion is valid, let a third respected doctor to do so.  The state has no medical training to make the necessary decision on which set of doctors is right.


Also Boston Children didn't make the decision to take the child away.  The courts do that, and these cases (all abuse cases) are always reviewed by an independent physician. The doctors simply refer these cases to child-protective services and make their case to them. Your idea that this was a unilateral decision that was only reviewed by 2 physicians or "sets of physicians" isn't correct.
2014-02-25 07:45:23 PM  
3 votes:

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: ActionJoe: apparently the daughter has gotten worse.

The only ones saying the daughter has gotten worse is the parents, who have no reason to say she's gotten any better, obviously.

Given that HIPAA (two "A"s, one "P", folks) prevents the hospital from discussing the details of treatment to the public, it's pretty clear that this article was sourced almost entirely from the family's claims.  Not really good reporting.

The amount of obvious hyperbole on the part of the parents and their legal team is impressive, though.  Given their description of supervised visits, I'm surprised they didn't an in a "detail" of how the DFS supervisors were armed (there were a half dozen DFS employees at every visit?  really?  social services departments are notoriously understaffed, no one is sending more than one or two, max, to these visits) with big scary guns and stared at them menacingly while summoning demons, who were tasked with keeping the child sick.


This.

You have to wonder why the family is bringing in "additional first amendment lawyers" to impose gag orders on anyone and everyone involved in this case.  Anything that has to do with their child's diagnosis would be protected by HIPAA.  What are they trying to keep from getting out?
2014-02-25 07:33:02 PM  
3 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


WHICH doctors?

We have the doctors at Tufts Medical Center who back the claim of mitochondrial disease, and we have the doctors at Boston Childrens who back their own theory of hypochondria. Which doctor should we trust? The doctor chosen by the family, or the doctor who performed emergency care?
2014-02-25 07:23:52 PM  
3 votes:

MyRandomName: That is the basis of your argument. Again, 2 sets of doctors, 2 opinions. Get a third. You dont get to pick and choose which doctor is to be trusted more. Medicine doesn't work that way. Get a third opinion. It would stop the whole mess fairly quickly, don't you think?

A 3rd independent analysis by a respected doctor would end the whole mess. Why is that not even a consideration in your book? This issue could have ended a year ago.


Stop putting words in my mouth, Ass. Second warning.

And medicine DOES work this way: a doctor who does not specialize in Metabolic disorders diagnosing and managing him/herself an utter zebra like a mitochondrial disease SHOULD bring about questions about the diagnosis and treatment from that doctor, instead of that doctor sending the patient out to a specialist who is trained in genetics or metabolic disorders. An Inborn Error of Metabolism like a mitochondrial disease is not something that is able to be diagnosed by your family pediatrician, nor is it something that is commonly encountered by them.

From what I understand about this case, Boston Childrens reported the suspected abuse because the child was found to have been "doctor shopped" among various pediatricians and ERs in the area, each time with a different diagnosis of a chronic disease, not just a mitochondrial disorder. (And yes, there ARE different s/s of mitochondrial disorders. It is NOT just one disease)
2014-02-25 07:22:57 PM  
3 votes:

MyRandomName: That is the basis of your argument. Again, 2 sets of doctors, 2 opinions. Get a third. You dont get to pick and choose which doctor is to be trusted more. Medicine doesn't work that way. Get a third opinion. It would stop the whole mess fairly quickly, don't you think?

A 3rd independent analysis by a respected doctor would end the whole mess. Why is that not even a consideration in your book? This issue could have ended a year ago.


it's a small point but I think what a lot of medical people are thinking is a "set of doctors" isn't really a thing. They have like 30 genetics folks at Boston Childrens, and literally hundreds of internal medicine attendings there. I'm sure first, second, third and fourth opinions have already been obtained. Munchhausen by proxy is a diagnosis of last resort for pediatricians.
2014-02-25 07:15:33 PM  
3 votes:

MyRandomName: cman: We are only hearing one side of the story

Before everyone goes apeshiat lets remember that

2 sets of doctors, 2 different opinions. Instead of state sanctioned kidnapping, how about a tiebreaker first.


Yeah, that was kind of my thought when i first started hearing about this case. What makes the 2nd doctor automatically correct?
2014-02-25 07:10:34 PM  
3 votes:
I have a novel idea: she dies due to untreated mitochondrial disease then the judge and doctors at the MA hospital get instant death penalty.
2014-02-25 07:06:00 PM  
3 votes:

justtray: More info from the fox news article.... *washes self afterwards*

KELLY: And DCF gets custody taken away from the parents. DCF basically, I mean they -- they basically deferred to Boston Children's. They go in there -- they don't have their own medical experts. They go to the judge and say the people at Boston Children says they're -- you know, basically abusing the girl. Gee, judge that's bad, and the judge says oh yeah, that is bad. Custody to DCF. But the problem is there is a whole medical team at Tufts saying it is not abuse, it's medical treatment based on a disease she has called mito.
But here's the thing I wanna ask you, Matt, because this is what the folks at Boston Children's basically say mito is a crock. That's -- that's -- if it exists, it doesn't exist in this case. And what actually is happening is it is not Justina that has psychological issues, it is the parents. From what I read in the Boston Globe, it's the parents, they used to call it Munchausen by proxy. Where the parent -- the child is not sick, but the parents working out some of his -- or her own and creating illnesses in the child and then getting unnecessary treatments and surgeries for the child.

Looks like Mr Boobieser is the big winner.


And that is why people with no training in Science or Medicine should not be engaging in science or medical journalism.

That was painful to read.
2014-02-25 06:19:02 PM  
3 votes:
We are only hearing one side of the story

Before everyone goes apeshiat lets remember that
2014-02-25 06:13:56 PM  
3 votes:
Oh, and then there's the upsetting prevalence of "there's something wrong with my child" claims that are answered with "well, you can start by not abusing them physically".
2014-02-26 12:03:34 AM  
2 votes:

bborchar: When your child is taken from you, you do what you are told in order to get her back. Period. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, you do what you have to do to get her back.


This is victim blaming.  Your energy is being directed at the wrong party.

I cant imagine what I would do if my child was taken from me.  And if my child were being harmed....well, the last thing the abductors would want to do is remove any reason to restrain myself.
2014-02-25 11:38:10 PM  
2 votes:
there is such a thing as Munchausen by Proxy but I though it was usually perpetrated by the mom or other female caregiver. Not both the mom & dad.

The kid was fine until after having the flu, isn't the flu sometimes a trigger for disorders?

BTW if my hypothetical sick kid was taken away from me for over a year and the court ruled that the kid was going to be stashed away in a non-medical facility, I might faint or shout as well.

\just sayin'
2014-02-25 11:35:13 PM  
2 votes:

LowbrowDeluxe: Almost every time we've ever had a case anywhere similar to this we get a couple of days of OMG OUTRAGE HOW DARE THEY DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING and then it turns out the parents are giant humungous massive scumbags of one order or another.


As someone who has frequently been either a public servant or involved in the medical field, I can say this without reservation:

Always doubt the story the claimant/litigant is making in the media.

Although none of my own clients have been in the media, clients of my departments or companies have and there has literally not been a single case where the client has not twisted the story, omitted pertinent facts, or outright lied.

And it is endlessly frustrating that we are totally unable to correct the facts or defend ourselves because of privacy laws, we just have to put up with the resultant abuse from other clients.  The media will say "we contacted the company/department but they declined to comment" and treat that as "fact checking".  Of course we declined to comment, we're legally unable to do so in any meaningful manner!

I would 100% be in support of changing privacy laws so that if a person goes to the media with a complaint, the subject of the complaint is allowed, through some form of tribunal process, to release information to correct or clarify the story.
2014-02-25 11:23:39 PM  
2 votes:

willfullyobscure: Dr. Mark Korson, chief of metabolism at Tufts, is an expert on the subject and made the mitochondrial diagnosis.

he was ignored entirely by BCH. At one point BCH recorded that she had never had any diagosis despite being under his direct care.


somatoform disorder is an outdated, blanket diagnosis no longer used in current psychological evaluation or psychiatric care. it means, literally, "you feel stuff that isnt real".

She hasnt gotten better despite being locked up away from family for a year.

Gee. Tough one.


And the DCF deliberately excluded his reports, diagnosis and all Tuffs medical records from their reports to the Judge assigned to the case. That on its own should be scrutinized and reviewed by the courts.
2014-02-25 11:22:05 PM  
2 votes:
The diagnosis will be confirmed by autopsy.
2014-02-25 11:16:03 PM  
2 votes:
bborchar:

Children's has portraid them in a negative light since day one when the parents insisted on a feeding tube for her nutrition. Since then they, and DCF, have painted them negatively. It got off to a

None of which has anything to do with their subsequent belligerent behavior.  They lost visitation rights when the mom inexplicably took needles into her daughter's room...and the excuse for it (diabetes) was flimsy at best.  I have two chronic diseases that require daily medication and if I wouldn't have taken my medical supplies in with me when visiting my daughter.  If they TRULY wanted their daughter back at home with them, they would have bent over backwards to do what they had to do.  That's what any rational parent would do...but they are doing everything they can not to get their daughter back, but to drum up sympathy for their situation.  Whatever is wrong with the girl, I hope they can help her...but I don't think her parents are necessarily capable of making the right decisions for her, either.

Oh bull. They told the parents she didn't need a feeding tube and ended up with egg on their face. That was how the situation escalated to begin with. The parents, the medical staff from Tuffs, and a specialist in California repeatedly asked for outside opinions and where denied.  Denied for what reason? Good question, nobody knows and there is no logical answer to deny other evaluations. DCF has kept medical information from the courts deliberately. Why? This same Doctor and his team that pushed for this diagnosis have done so in the past regardless of how loose the diagnosis considered in the medicinal world.

"If they TRULY wanted their daughter back" Are you even a parent? I certainly hope not.
Who in their right mind would knowingly sign a binding agreement saying they can not take their child to a medical facility that has been successfully treating said child and must adhere to set rules that conflict with the child's welfare?  The girl was successfully being treated at Tuffs and was sent to Children's to see a specialist for examination of her intestines. Within three days she was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and never even saw the Doctor she was supposed to see. Next thing the parents find out is she never saw the Doctor she was supposed to see, they opened a case with the DCF, ANY opinion outside of Children's was not welcomed and they where not allowed to take their daughter anywhere else for treatment.

Now, to present day, how many non-answers, bs excuses, lack of answers, lies and general political bs can any average American take in one year?
2014-02-25 10:20:31 PM  
2 votes:
Dr. Mark Korson, chief of metabolism at Tufts, is an expert on the subject and made the mitochondrial diagnosis.

he was ignored entirely by BCH. At one point BCH recorded that she had never had any diagosis despite being under his direct care.


somatoform disorder is an outdated, blanket diagnosis no longer used in current psychological evaluation or psychiatric care. it means, literally, "you feel stuff that isnt real".

She hasnt gotten better despite being locked up away from family for a year.

Gee. Tough one.
2014-02-25 09:53:55 PM  
2 votes:

pla: Someone else already said it.  Tie-breaker eval.  Appropriate treatment for girl.  If time proves one sides conclusively correct, losers get the death penalty with no appeals.

If the parents have somehow "faked" this, they deserve a slow and painful death.  If BCH and CPS has wasted a year of everyone's life to save face, they deserve even worse.  Let a third party make the call in the interests of doing the best thing for the girl, see who had it right, and the wrong side gets gassed.

Something many of you have overlooked here - This won't end until the girl's death.  You don't interact with CPS and have the situation resolved in any reasonably sane manner.  Even if she lives to see 18 this won't end, because once under the jurisdiction of the self-masturbatory "family" court system, young adults frequently remain trapped in it well into their late 20s.

BCH may - may - have her best interests at heart.  CPS' default tactics seriously make me wonder how they can maintain adequate staffing levels due to parents completely losing their shiat and going postal.


You're a goddamned idiot, and I don't care if I get another 3-day fark vaction for saying so.
2014-02-25 08:46:09 PM  
2 votes:

snowshovel: Ow! That was my feelings!: Ah, here ya go, ftfa:

"The court really didn't accomplish much," said Mathew Staves of Liberty Counsel , a conservative organization that advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," who was at hearing.

//that should clear it up.

Strangely, just by having someone like him involved,it makes me think the hospital is doing the correct thing without any additional information.


You too?  That juciy tidbit, and the complaint by the father that they weren't even letting the girl go to church, makes me think there's more at stake than just midichlorians.
2014-02-25 08:42:43 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: Elegy: It also doesn't sound like what the mother and doctor are suggesting that that far outside the realm of possibility, especially since she has an older sister with the same diagnosis from the same doctor. I suppose the doctor could be crazy, too.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. I'm not involved in the girls care, and I really don't have a dog in the fight other than to argue with someone over the internet.

But I'm not going to side with the girl's parents based on one-sided information, especially from questionable sources in the matter (Liberty Counsel). I'm far more apt to believe Boston Children's because there is not a really good explanation or independent evidence for why not to, and they have a larger and world-renown IEOM team at the hospital there.

Part of me wants the Gag order reversed so we can have all the sides of the story.


The story I'm getting through the words on the page is that the mother is a holy farking terror, a real combative biatch when it comes to interacting with the cogs in the bureaucracy.

She's been such a biatch that anyone she deals with her at BCH or DCF says "Munchausen by proxy farking too righ, this biatch is crazy" and refuses to deal with her. Hell, the kid has been denied a third opinion that would settle the case because the clinic involved didn't want to deal with the kid or her mother, and the impending legal actions.

That's the whole key here - the diagnosis BCH and DCF are sticking with pins all of the daughter's problems on the mother. The state is basically telling the family that the mother has made such an ass of herself she's been judged unstable and she won't get her daughter back unless she accepts the diagnosis and (presumably) receives treatment for her "problems."

The fact that the kid hasn't improved leads me to believe the original doctor is correct, but as you say we'll see.
2014-02-25 08:37:38 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: badhatharry: I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.

If they had reason to suspect that the parents were deliberately altering the child's diet, or spiking the kid with medications or chemicals to mimic the effects of a mitochondrial disorder - or were attempting to convince providers of her having a disease like that when she did not, no it's not.

But we don't know what went on at Boston. Because not only are they bound by HIPAA and COBRA acts, but they've complied with the gag order. Everything has come from the parents.


Secret courts and gag orders is no way to run a free country. If they have evidence she was being harmed they need to charge the parents with a crime.
2014-02-25 08:33:07 PM  
2 votes:

badhatharry: I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.


If they had reason to suspect that the parents were deliberately altering the child's diet, or spiking the kid with medications or chemicals to mimic the effects of a mitochondrial disorder - or were attempting to convince providers of her having a disease like that when she did not, no it's not.

But we don't know what went on at Boston. Because not only are they bound by HIPAA and COBRA acts, but they've complied with the gag order. Everything has come from the parents.
2014-02-25 08:14:14 PM  
2 votes:

badhatharry: beaverfetus: Just to throw some gasoline on the fire/ supply some food for thought:

After Crohn's disease was described at Mount Sinai Hospital by Dr. Crohn, many Crohn's suffers were found to be currently admitted to inpatient psych wards for unexplained (presumed at the time to be somatiform) abdominal pain.

/chick is still probably bonkers
//not as bonkers as her mom

///still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.


eh, remember no pediatricians like calling CPS, not a one. Ton of work, really depressing, and on occasion it sets of a shiat storm like this. They called because they thought it was in the child's best interest, whether they turn out to be correct or not.
2014-02-25 08:08:17 PM  
2 votes:

Elegy: It also doesn't sound like what the mother and doctor are suggesting that that far outside the realm of possibility, especially since she has an older sister with the same diagnosis from the same doctor. I suppose the doctor could be crazy, too.


If I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. I'm not involved in the girls care, and I really don't have a dog in the fight other than to argue with someone over the internet.

But I'm not going to side with the girl's parents based on one-sided information, especially from questionable sources in the matter (Liberty Counsel). I'm far more apt to believe Boston Children's because there is not a really good explanation or independent evidence for why not to, and they have a larger and world-renown IEOM team at the hospital there.

Part of me wants the Gag order reversed so we can have all the sides of the story.
2014-02-25 07:38:06 PM  
2 votes:
By the way, those of you claiming Boston Children's Hospital wins over Tufts because "fark you they do"...

It's not like BCH has ever, EVER, been guilty of malpractice.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/12/19/jury_finds_2_d oc tors_at_childrens_hospital_caused_boys_death/

BCH is infallible apparently, but Tufts is wrong.

Instead of a third opinion you are advocating for the State to be the Medical Doctor of the child as they are the ones choosing which opinion is valid and which is not.

Instead of the state deciding which opinion is valid, let a third respected doctor to do so.  The state has no medical training to make the necessary decision on which set of doctors is right.
2014-02-25 07:35:06 PM  
2 votes:

justtray: There's a reason they're battling this in the public using emotional appeals. They mistreated their daughter, giving her drugs and undergoing procedures for 11 months at Tufts.


I'm willing to bet this is the case, actually. We had a case locally where a grandmother was giving her granddaughter low doses of hydrocarbons in her food to lower her WBC count and make her look like she had leukemia to solicit donations from people. She was only caught because they caught her spiking her food tray in the hospital.

Munchousen's By Proxy is a last-resort, exclusionary diagnosis made after ALL OTHER diseases and issues have been ruled out. I'm more than willing to bet the physician ordered a genetics assay and blood work which showed that she didn't have the disease. And there is very little chance this is a single doctor to doctor pissing contest. The doctors don't do the reporting, they go to social work typically and social work investigates and makes the report. There is no way the hospital would stand behind this doctor's department and team if there wasn't evidence to back him/her up.

teenytinycornteeth: Just having professional training doesn't mean you're flawless and there's so much information open to the average person today that it's easy to read up on symptoms and treatments for diseases yourself.


The average person lacks the basic educational foundation and knowledge of medicine to put that together. I can take the symptoms of flu to WebMD and plug them in.  That doesn't mean I have pancreatic cancer.
2014-02-25 07:32:31 PM  
2 votes:
Glad you fools managed to turn this into a red vs blue affair, even though it has nothing to do with your politics.
2014-02-25 07:29:12 PM  
2 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


You know, I don't know the full truth of this story and there are some brilliant minds out there in the field of medicine, but all you have to do is watch two or three episodes of "Monsters Inside Me" or "Mystery Diagnosis" or, say talk to people walking down the street to see and hear endless stories of men and women misdiagnosed or undiagnosed with life threatening diseases all day.  Hell, my aunt had a surgical sponge left in her spinal column for ten years.  Just having professional training doesn't mean you're flawless and there's so much information open to the average person today that it's easy to read up on symptoms and treatments for diseases yourself.
2014-02-25 07:28:47 PM  
2 votes:

bborchar: I guess my questions would be:

1. If this is a rare, genetic disorder with devastating consequences, wouldn't this child have exhibited those symptoms from childhood on?  It's not something that would just strike a year ago after the child was normal for 13 years, right?

2. Can't this be verified by genetic tests or some other tests?

3. Can they get a third opinion?

Seriously, just wondering these points, the article is shiat for information because of the gag order and the terrible writing.


Yes
Yes
and Yes.

All have probably been done. Likely the only reason the parents dont look like the child abusers they are is because HIPAA is protecting them by keeping it all secret.

There's a reason they're battling this in the public using emotional appeals. They mistreated their daughter, giving her drugs and undergoing procedures for 11 months at Tufts.
2014-02-25 07:20:59 PM  
2 votes:

legion_of_doo: hardinparamedic: MyRandomName: So Tufts is a fake hospital to you. Got it.

Boston Children's Hospital is world renown for it's immunology, cancer, genetics, and metabolic disorder research and treatment team.

Tufts is renown for it's Pediatric Trauma history.

Quiet, you! It is more important for us to figure out which side Fox & the Republicans are on, and which side Obama & the Democrats are on.


Quite amazing that the only ones who have brought in politics are the ones hoping the state, and I guess liberalism, wins.

Ive only stated a third opinion is kind of due by now. Apparently that is a radical idea.
2014-02-25 07:16:06 PM  
2 votes:
Sane mothers don't need to be wheeled out of a courtroom because they are upset.

This mom doesn't belong around children.
2014-02-25 07:13:06 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: MyRandomName: And the other hospital was just doing procedures on the girl for shiats and giggles? One hospital good, other bad? Based on?

If you have a child who is ill, you don't take them to an adult or non-pediatric specialty hospital for anything like a mitochondrial disorder - something that SHOULD be diagnosed only after an expert in genetics, metabolic diseases and/or endocrinology sees the child.

And adult hospitals will, as a rule, overtreat or undertreat a child. Defensive medicine.


Mitochondrial disease doesn't have different symptoms based on age. Basically your argument is Tuft Hospital is full of shiat doctors. Got it.
2014-02-25 07:12:11 PM  
2 votes:

MyRandomName: So Tufts is a fake hospital to you. Got it.


Boston Children's Hospital is world renown for it's immunology, cancer, genetics, and metabolic disorder research and treatment team.

Tufts is renown for it's Pediatric Trauma history.
2014-02-25 07:10:22 PM  
2 votes:

snowshovel: Ow! That was my feelings!: Ah, here ya go, ftfa:

"The court really didn't accomplish much," said Mathew Staves of Liberty Counsel , a conservative organization that advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," who was at hearing.

//that should clear it up.

Strangely, just by having someone like him involved,it makes me think the hospital is doing the correct thing without any additional information.


I have to admit the same thing crossed my mind. What the hell is Liberty Counsel doing getting mixed up in a case like this? I'm hardly going to let Boston Children's off the hook, but something smells fishy here.

I also wonder why the Politics tab right-wing usual suspects are weighing in so heavily, though perhaps they're just having the same reaction to Liberty Counsel only in the opposite direction.
2014-02-25 07:04:00 PM  
2 votes:

MyRandomName: wyltoknow: Yeeeah, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this hospital wouldnt be inclined to go through the hellish process of removing a child from their parents custody and receive all the obvious negative publicity just because they felt like stirring the pot.

And the other hospital was just doing procedures on the girl for shiats and giggles? One hospital good, other bad? Based on?


Based upon your hatred for anything government-related I'm gonna go with "you have no idea what actually happened and are just being reactionary as usual"
2014-02-25 06:54:35 PM  
2 votes:
Ah, here ya go, ftfa:

"The court really didn't accomplish much," said Mathew Staves of Liberty Counsel , a conservative organization that advocates for "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," who was at hearing.

//that should clear it up.
2014-02-25 06:53:06 PM  
2 votes:
Sounds like an episode of House.  I'm sure it's been said, but why does no one ever suspect House?  People have these crazy diseases and only House can fix them.  It's like Murder She Wrote.  Every time she comes to town somebody dies.
2014-02-26 05:21:03 PM  
1 votes:

willfullyobscure: They locked her in the nuthatch and are denying her necessary medical treatment based on an outdated model of a phony diagnosis and ignored existing medical care, treatment and diagnosis because reasons.


You might want to amend that with "according to her parents".
2014-02-26 01:08:45 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: MyRandomName: So Tufts is a fake hospital to you. Got it.

Boston Children's Hospital is world renown for it's immunology, cancer, genetics, and metabolic disorder research and treatment team.

Tufts is renown for it's Pediatric Trauma history.


Interesting though, that the doc in the case doesn't believe that mito is a real disease.  The world renown hospital has a mito specialist.  More interesting is that her sister also suffers from the disease and has been treated for it.
2014-02-26 09:44:24 AM  
1 votes:
RavenOnyx:

I have two daughters with autism.

 Our previously-neurotypical son had a tonic clonic seizure a year ago and was diagnosed - through Children's - with Juvenile Myoclonic Epilepsy.


Please stop having kids. You have farked up genetics.
2014-02-26 06:33:59 AM  
1 votes:

kling_klang_bed: And to say I quite literally don't know what I'm talking about would perhaps would also say I'm talking from a metaphorical point of view? Please learn what 'quite literally' means before you use it, thanks. Thank you, drive through! :-)


No, it would mean you're speaking from a completely ignorant point of view. You don't know what you're talking about. Literally. Please learn what English means before you use it, thanks.
2014-02-26 01:13:14 AM  
1 votes:

nyseattitude: bborchar: nyseattitude: bborchar:

Children's has portraid them in a negative light since day one when the parents insisted on a feeding tube for her nutrition. Since then they, and DCF, have painted them negatively. It got off to a

None of which has anything to do with their subsequent belligerent behavior.  They lost visitation rights when the mom inexplicably took needles into her daughter's room...and the excuse for it (diabetes) was flimsy at best.  I have two chronic diseases that require daily medication and if I wouldn't have taken my medical supplies in with me when visiting my daughter.  If they TRULY wanted their daughter back at home with them, they would have bent over backwards to do what they had to do.  That's what any rational parent would do...but they are doing everything they can not to get their daughter back, but to drum up sympathy for their situation.  Whatever is wrong with the girl, I hope they can help her...but I don't think her parents are necessarily capable of making the right decisions for her, either.

Oh bull. They told the parents she didn't need a feeding tube and ended up with egg on their face. That was how the situation escalated to begin with. The parents, the medical staff from Tuffs, and a specialist in California repeatedly asked for outside opinions and where denied.  Denied for what reason? Good question, nobody knows and there is no logical answer to deny other evaluations. DCF has kept medical information from the courts deliberately. Why? This same Doctor and his team that pushed for this diagnosis have done so in the past regardless of how loose the diagnosis considered in the medicinal world.

"If they TRULY wanted their daughter back" Are you even a parent? I certainly hope not.
Who in their right mind would knowingly sign a binding agreement saying they can not take their child to a medical facility that has been successfully treating said child and must adhere to set rules that conflict with the child's welfare?  ...


I appreciate it, sorry if I got upset.  I have been on both sides of the 'doctors are idiots/doctors are great' debate.  My daughter was born with a birth defect (a patent urachal remnant) which required surgery, and when I first brought up my concerns to the nurses at the pediatrician's office, I was brushed off with the "oh, it's normal" bit and the "over-protective new mother" routine.  It wasn't diagnosed until she was a month old and I went to a different doctor, who immediately realized what it was and sent us to the hospital immediately for tests.  I was also concerned about my son's lack of progress when he was a year and a half old, and even though I had friends and family members tell me that I was worried over nothing, I went ahead and had him tested, and sure enough, he had a speech delay.  So I know what it's like to be thought of as the 'overbearing parent', and I know that, as a parent, I would do anything to make sure my child was taken care of.  So, first and foremost, I just want this child to get the help she needs, whether it is psychiatric, medical or both.  I'm not given to conspiracy theories, and as we've only heard the parents' side of the story, it's very easy to see that they believe they are being railroaded.  Now, that very well could be true, but I don't believe I am victim blaming when I read some of the stuff they have done that just sets off my internal alarm bell.   I would be mad as hell if the state tried to take my child...but I also know that I wouldn't do anything that might jeopardize my chance of getting her back (like bring needles into a psych ward when visiting her).  Personally, I think that even if the parents aren't making it up, they aren't necessarily acting in her best interest at the moment with some of their behavior and another person (a neutral party) should be in charge of the child's welfare- someone without bias.  Get another opinion from other doctors, compare how the child is doing with how she was before.  I don't think she should be permanently be taken from her family, but I don't know if her parents are the ones who should be in charge of her welfare at this time.  Basically, my first thoughts go to 'what is best for the child' and not so much 'what is best for the parents' or 'what is best for the doctors' in this situation.  Hopefully, that's what they are thinking, too.
2014-02-25 11:42:38 PM  
1 votes:
So why haven't the parents been arrested yet? I mean, if the government says they've done something so bad to have the child removed from their custody, then why wouldn't they charge the parents with the crime?
2014-02-25 11:39:51 PM  
1 votes:

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Thunderpipes: All power to the state! Individuals have no rights! Woo hoo! Liberalism!

Liberal Vermonters just got a 2 year old killed because they gave her back to a mom that previously broke her leg. Here the state won't even let a second opinion be heard?

Maybe we should let the government take care of everything, they are so good at it.

So when doctors suspect child abuse and act to keep a child from being abused it's the evil governments fault?

I have an idea, how about we hire more and better trained workers who can actually do their job instead of kneecapping them with tax cuts for the 1% and then complaining that they just can't do anything right?


"Child abuse" in Mass is a highly sensitive topic. A few cases where blatantly ignored a while back and since then it turned into a "zero tolerance" policy. If you don't report it and something was/is wrong you are in a lot of trouble so now anyone, even anonymously, can report it. That turns it into a legal liability and nobody wants to be sued over it. The "zero tolerance" policy puts everyone, schools, medicinal, athletics and anyone you can imagine on the edge. In all reality you could report someone over a "gut feeling" and the guardians or parents are guilty until proven innocent.
2014-02-25 11:33:42 PM  
1 votes:

nyseattitude: bborchar:

Children's has portraid them in a negative light since day one when the parents insisted on a feeding tube for her nutrition. Since then they, and DCF, have painted them negatively. It got off to a

None of which has anything to do with their subsequent belligerent behavior.  They lost visitation rights when the mom inexplicably took needles into her daughter's room...and the excuse for it (diabetes) was flimsy at best.  I have two chronic diseases that require daily medication and if I wouldn't have taken my medical supplies in with me when visiting my daughter.  If they TRULY wanted their daughter back at home with them, they would have bent over backwards to do what they had to do.  That's what any rational parent would do...but they are doing everything they can not to get their daughter back, but to drum up sympathy for their situation.  Whatever is wrong with the girl, I hope they can help her...but I don't think her parents are necessarily capable of making the right decisions for her, either.

Oh bull. They told the parents she didn't need a feeding tube and ended up with egg on their face. That was how the situation escalated to begin with. The parents, the medical staff from Tuffs, and a specialist in California repeatedly asked for outside opinions and where denied.  Denied for what reason? Good question, nobody knows and there is no logical answer to deny other evaluations. DCF has kept medical information from the courts deliberately. Why? This same Doctor and his team that pushed for this diagnosis have done so in the past regardless of how loose the diagnosis considered in the medicinal world.

"If they TRULY wanted their daughter back" Are you even a parent? I certainly hope not.
Who in their right mind would knowingly sign a binding agreement saying they can not take their child to a medical facility that has been successfully treating said child and must adhere to set rules that conflict with the child's welfare?  The girl was successful ...


Way to cross the line, a$$hat.  Yes, I am a parent, actually, and AS a parent, I'm looking at what these people are doing and it makes NO SENSE.  None.  If they think their child is being mistreated so damn badly, then why on earth would they do EVERYTHING in their power to ensure their child stays in the custody of the people they feel are purportedly killing her?  When your child is taken from you, you do what you are told in order to get her back.  Period.  It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, you do what you have to do to get her back.  I don't know what's wrong with her, and I'm not even going to speculate...there isn't enough reliable information in any of these stories to even make a guess, but I'm simply looking at the behavior of the parents, and the mother especially, and I'm not seeing people who are acting in the best interest of the child.  They are doing absolutely everything they aren't supposed to do in this situation.  Just because the mother demanded a feeding tube and the kid ended up needing a feeding tube later doesn't mean that the mother suddenly has more medical knowledge than the doctor and isn't enough of a reason for ANY doctor to rip a child away from a family...this whole conspiracy nonsense is ridiculous.  The hospital, doctors, nurses, social workers, DA and judge weren't all 'in this' to make the hospital look good and the parents look bad...they parents have made themselves look bad and whatever the child's actual condition may be, the parents probably aren't fit to take care of her in the present circumstances.

Now, do you want to call CPS because I happen to have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours?
2014-02-25 11:32:30 PM  
1 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


Things like a diagnosis from a different medical center?
2014-02-25 11:30:31 PM  
1 votes:

Greek: justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.

You mean like the doctors at Tufts?

/RTFA. Sounds like there's a medical pissing contest going on with this girl and her family in the middle.


The physiatrist who pushed for the diagnosis refuses to admit he could be wrong and it's not the first time either. I sincerely hope he, and his "team" that pushed for this and refused to hear any and all objective reasons, should be barred from medicine for life. Course politics won't allow it.
2014-02-25 11:26:45 PM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: All power to the state! Individuals have no rights! Woo hoo! Liberalism!

Liberal Vermonters just got a 2 year old killed because they gave her back to a mom that previously broke her leg. Here the state won't even let a second opinion be heard?

Maybe we should let the government take care of everything, they are so good at it.


So when doctors suspect child abuse and act to keep a child from being abused it's the evil governments fault?

I have an idea, how about we hire more and better trained workers who can actually do their job instead of kneecapping them with tax cuts for the 1% and then complaining that they just can't do anything right?
2014-02-25 10:26:26 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: Until the last three weeks, the only news outlets regularly carrying this story have been

NaturalNews and it's affiliates, Glenn Beck and TheBlaze, and several right wing blogs. That's what I meant.


BTW - Although I agree it is a nutty conspiracy site, when did a holistic medicine website become a "right-wing" site?  As far as I knew it is a 50/50 mix of anti-vaxxer anti-GM holistic crystal-healer types (decidedly left-wing), and anti-pharmaceuticals, anti-government conspiracy theories.  (non-partisan just plain whackiness).  A quick google tells me the founder and the website endorse the Canary Party, and the Green party.
2014-02-25 10:17:50 PM  
1 votes:

rebelyell2006: badhatharry: hardinparamedic: badhatharry: I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.

If they had reason to suspect that the parents were deliberately altering the child's diet, or spiking the kid with medications or chemicals to mimic the effects of a mitochondrial disorder - or were attempting to convince providers of her having a disease like that when she did not, no it's not.

But we don't know what went on at Boston. Because not only are they bound by HIPAA and COBRA acts, but they've complied with the gag order. Everything has come from the parents.

Secret courts and gag orders is no way to run a free country. If they have evidence she was being harmed they need to charge the parents with a crime.

Normally if a minor is a victim of a crime, they will do what they can to minimize identifying the minor and will limit what they tell the press.


They should do that at all times anyway.

accused =\= guilty

private =\= public


Pretty much 90% of all modern journalism would disappear overnight if we actually had ethics.
2014-02-25 10:15:43 PM  
1 votes:

FloridaFarkTag: The older daughter also has a medically verified case of mitochondrial disorder....so I doubt the parents are making anything up

This story has been out for a year now...the family pretty much just ignored the gag order...I do not blame them

This is a kidnapping, plain and simple. This family has shown much restraint. I think a lot of folks having a hospital kidnap their child would be capping some hospital folks


This is the same hospital that did it to another, younger child a while back--I can't get the link, but it's on Fark so a TotalFarker could.
2014-02-25 10:04:32 PM  
1 votes:

Flab: bborchar: They lost visitation rights when the mom inexplicably took needles into her daughter's room...and the excuse for it (diabetes) was flimsy at best.

i think she was attempting to sneak in her older sister's midichlorian drugs to save her baby form the evil doctors.


Probably.  Her excuse for it didn't make any sense and it's not what any sane person would have done when they were trying to get their daughter back.
2014-02-25 09:56:10 PM  
1 votes:

Frederick: MyRandomName: 2 sets of doctors, 2 different opinions. Instead of state sanctioned kidnapping, how about a tiebreaker first.

Absolutely.  The fact that this was not allowed prior to the child being removed from parents is an over reach.  The lack of transparency does not serve any protection in this case.  Especially at this point.  Unseal the documents.

justtray: There's a reason they're battling this in the public using emotional appeals. They mistreated their daughter, giving her drugs and undergoing procedures for 11 months at Tufts.

Where does the daughter want to be?


Anyhwere where the walls aren't padded and there are no bars on the windows.  Even if mom is crazy, it must be better than being stuck in the psychiatric ward.
2014-02-25 09:55:30 PM  
1 votes:

nyseattitude: bborchar: badhatharry: bborchar: badhatharry: hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.

Everybody is covering their ass.

Well, if she is misdiagnosed either way, the family could sue...and the parents are real nutjobs, whether or not they are lying.

I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.

They are nutjobs because instead of doing whatever they can to get their child back, they are more interested in being proven right.  Whether the kid has an illness or not, I don't know, and I can't even hazard a guess because we don't have enough information.  But they aren't doing anything they are supposed to do to get her back...not a SINGLE thing.  They argue with the doctors, bring needles to visits, argue with the social workers, break gag orders and threaten to sue medical facilities that would take care of their daughter without even seeing it.  THAT'S why I think they are nuts...I don't have to know whether or not the child is crazy or actually sick to realize that the parents are attention whores.

Children's has portraid them in a negative light since day one when the parents insisted on a feeding tube for her nutrition. Since then they, and DCF, have painted them negatively. It got off to a really bad start because Children's took ...


None of which has anything to do with their subsequent belligerent behavior.  They lost visitation rights when the mom inexplicably took needles into her daughter's room...and the excuse for it (diabetes) was flimsy at best.  I have two chronic diseases that require daily medication and if I wouldn't have taken my medical supplies in with me when visiting my daughter.  If they TRULY wanted their daughter back at home with them, they would have bent over backwards to do what they had to do.  That's what any rational parent would do...but they are doing everything they can not to get their daughter back, but to drum up sympathy for their situation.  Whatever is wrong with the girl, I hope they can help her...but I don't think her parents are necessarily capable of making the right decisions for her, either.
2014-02-25 09:48:06 PM  
1 votes:

MemeSlave: Ask Meg and Charles Wallace about mitochondrial disease.


Haven't read that in 30 years and I immediately knew the reference. Bravo!
2014-02-25 09:36:43 PM  
1 votes:

bborchar: badhatharry: bborchar: badhatharry: hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.

Everybody is covering their ass.

Well, if she is misdiagnosed either way, the family could sue...and the parents are real nutjobs, whether or not they are lying.

I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.

They are nutjobs because instead of doing whatever they can to get their child back, they are more interested in being proven right.  Whether the kid has an illness or not, I don't know, and I can't even hazard a guess because we don't have enough information.  But they aren't doing anything they are supposed to do to get her back...not a SINGLE thing.  They argue with the doctors, bring needles to visits, argue with the social workers, break gag orders and threaten to sue medical facilities that would take care of their daughter without even seeing it.  THAT'S why I think they are nuts...I don't have to know whether or not the child is crazy or actually sick to realize that the parents are attention whores.


Children's has portraid them in a negative light since day one when the parents insisted on a feeding tube for her nutrition. Since then they, and DCF, have painted them negatively. It got off to a really bad start because Children's took issue with the feeding tube. The DCF reports have holes in them, have other medical professionals opinions and diagnoses completely omitted from reports to the court and have refused to meet with or hear from other doctors.

Coincidently they had to put her feeding tube in shortly after due to her worsening conditions without it.
2014-02-25 09:17:43 PM  
1 votes:
Ask Meg and Charles Wallace about mitochondrial disease.
2014-02-25 09:17:22 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: beaverfetus: eh, remember no pediatricians like calling CPS, not a one. Ton of work, really depressing, and on occasion it sets of a shiat storm like this. They called because they thought it was in the child's best interest, whether they turn out to be correct or not.

Don't forget that this is a hospital we're talking about, not an MD's private practice. They usually report suspicions to social work, who get involved and do their own investigation before calling CPS.

This was not one doctor's decision. That's what people seem to be missing here.


Not in Mass. DCF is called at the drop of a hat. They don't think twice about it and it's over the top here. People are afraid of the ramifications if the don't due to the "what if" scenario.
pla
2014-02-25 09:16:26 PM  
1 votes:
bborchar : They are nutjobs because instead of doing whatever they can to get their child back, they are more interested in being proven right.

Umm... So you think they should do anything they can... for the privilege... of getting to watch her slowly die in front of their very own eyes?

They don't think she has a special brand of limp hair, they think she has a treatable, eventually-fatal disease.  Why would they fight to get her back if doing so explicitly required them to not treat her?

That said, in the same situation, I have to admit I'd take your approach - Play nice, get her back... Then take her to a civilized country that doesn't withhold treatment from sick kids.  So maybe you have a point there.  But as far as what they really believe, I'd call their behavior consistent with wanting treatment, not exoneration.


kling_klang_bed: a disease that'd attack your mitochondria would leave you dead, many times over.

Much like a disease that'd attack chickens leaves the world wing-less?

Not all "disease that'd attack X" means "you have no more X".  In fact, most "disease that'd attack X" outright require the continued existence of X in order to continue to exist, making a high fatality rate something of a counterproductive rarity.
pla
2014-02-25 09:03:51 PM  
1 votes:
Someone else already said it.  Tie-breaker eval.  Appropriate treatment for girl.  If time proves one sides conclusively correct, losers get the death penalty with no appeals.

If the parents have somehow "faked" this, they deserve a slow and painful death.  If BCH and CPS has wasted a year of everyone's life to save face, they deserve even worse.  Let a third party make the call in the interests of doing the best thing for the girl, see who had it right, and the wrong side gets gassed.

Something many of you have overlooked here - This won't end until the girl's death.  You don't interact with CPS and have the situation resolved in any reasonably sane manner.  Even if she lives to see 18 this won't end, because once under the jurisdiction of the self-masturbatory "family" court system, young adults frequently remain trapped in it well into their late 20s.

BCH may - may - have her best interests at heart.  CPS' default tactics seriously make me wonder how they can maintain adequate staffing levels due to parents completely losing their shiat and going postal.
2014-02-25 09:02:28 PM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: hardinparamedic: badhatharry: I believe the parents are kind of nuts. Lots of parents are kind of nuts. They were doing what they thought was the right thing. Taking away their kid is very farking outrageous.

If they had reason to suspect that the parents were deliberately altering the child's diet, or spiking the kid with medications or chemicals to mimic the effects of a mitochondrial disorder - or were attempting to convince providers of her having a disease like that when she did not, no it's not.

But we don't know what went on at Boston. Because not only are they bound by HIPAA and COBRA acts, but they've complied with the gag order. Everything has come from the parents.

Secret courts and gag orders is no way to run a free country. If they have evidence she was being harmed they need to charge the parents with a crime.


Normally if a minor is a victim of a crime, they will do what they can to minimize identifying the minor and will limit what they tell the press.
2014-02-25 08:43:20 PM  
1 votes:
Lets shoot the lawyers on both sides, just to be safe.
2014-02-25 08:38:05 PM  
1 votes:
I get so angry reading articles like this.

I have two daughters with autism. It took a decade to hear the magic words "you need a developmental pediatrician" to get to the right specialist.

Then came the fight with her school.

Almost four years later, her diagnosis is not just accepted by her regular pediatrician, but subsequent evaluations including those done at school are all in agreement.

In 2010, our youngest daughter was diagnosed.at age 4. Our previously-neurotypical son had a tonic clonic seizure a year ago and was diagnosed - through Children's - with Juvenile Myoclonic Epilepsy.

I don't know this family or "what really happened". I think the fact that their child hasn't improved while under 24/7 care of the hospital may or may not matter - I don't know anything about mito disease.

Thank you to the posters who linked to the other articles with more information about this case.
2014-02-25 08:34:17 PM  
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Okay, I can't confirm, or deny that.  I only became aware of the story last week on Huffington Post.   While that rag is admittedly sometimes rather distressingly loose with the facts, I would say it is far from right-wing.  I guess I just don't normally visit these right-wing websites you are referring to.


Until the last three weeks, the only news outlets regularly carrying this story have been NaturalNews and it's affiliates, Glenn Beck and TheBlaze, and several right wing blogs. That's what I meant.
2014-02-25 08:26:09 PM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: That is what the father said. She was sent the Boston Children's to see a gastro doctor. Before he even got to see her she was seen by a young neurologist. He told the father that mito is not real and believed she was being put through many unnecessary medical procedures. Enter CPS. Kid taken away. Gag order put on everyone involved.


Oh. Well, if the father said it, it must be true.

ThrobblefootSpectre: Yeah, I was reading about this last week on HuffPo.  The older sister has been treated by world class doctors and no one has suspected abuse.  Then when they take the younger daughter to Boston to see a GI doctor, they call a in psychologist instead (while refusing to let the referred GI doctor see her) and then refuse to let the parents take her home.  It's not like they treated her for months, and gradually suspected abuse.  No, they called a psychologist and the state DCF that same morning, without ever having a medical doctor examine her.  (This according to HuffPo stories on her.)


All of the news stories about this child have been on right-wing websites until the past few weeks, with nothing from the opposite side of the fence about it. Every bit of information has come from the parents and their lawyers.
2014-02-25 08:19:49 PM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.

Everybody is covering their ass.


Well, if she is misdiagnosed either way, the family could sue...and the parents are real nutjobs, whether or not they are lying.
2014-02-25 08:15:33 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?

Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.

And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.


Everybody is covering their ass.
2014-02-25 08:14:00 PM  
1 votes:

badhatharry: The doctor that called CPS thinks that mitochondrial disease is not a real disease.


upload.wikimedia.org

Please cite where he said that.
2014-02-25 08:13:02 PM  
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?


The doctor that called CPS thinks that mitochondrial disease is not a real disease.
2014-02-25 08:11:10 PM  
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: It's a genetic disease... isn't there a test for this which could clear the whole thing up? I mean, instead of guessing as to whose diagnosis is the accurate one can't we just use science? Is there no test for a mitochondrial disease?


Diagnosing a mitochondrial disease is not as simple as a chromosome assay. And it's not one disease. It's an umbrella term.

badhatharry: still not as bonkers as CPS and doctors that will never admit that they made a mistake.


And it would not be a black eye to Tufts if they were proven to be wrong on such a public case? Don't pretend like BosChildrens has everything to lose here.
2014-02-25 08:10:06 PM  
1 votes:
Why would the judge put a gag order in place for this? Why has this dragged out for this long? This isn't Canada. Gag orders are farking stupid especially when apparently it's a battle between two prestigious institutions.

If it was a question of "abuse" then the outcome would have been decided already. But if it's a question of the "science" why are they holding the girl hostage? If the Tufts treatment won't hurt her, then let them treat her. Hell, i think the parents would be happy to still have the same contact restrictions, as long as she's treated at Tufts.

The Liberty Counsel guy being there puts a bad taste in my mouth. Did the family call them in? Is the family religious nutballs? Really, she fainted? Really? Just remove the parents from the argument and let her go back on her previous treatment regimen that was apparently working until she got the flu.
2014-02-25 08:03:57 PM  
1 votes:
Just to throw some gasoline on the fire/ supply some food for thought:

After Crohn's disease was described at Mount Sinai Hospital by Dr. Crohn, many Crohn's suffers were found to be currently admitted to inpatient psych wards for unexplained (presumed at the time to be somatiform) abdominal pain.

/chick is still probably bonkers
//not as bonkers as her mom
2014-02-25 08:00:40 PM  
1 votes:

omnimancer28: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: ActionJoe: apparently the daughter has gotten worse.

The only ones saying the daughter has gotten worse is the parents, who have no reason to say she's gotten any better, obviously.

Given that HIPAA (two "A"s, one "P", folks) prevents the hospital from discussing the details of treatment to the public, it's pretty clear that this article was sourced almost entirely from the family's claims.  Not really good reporting.

The amount of obvious hyperbole on the part of the parents and their legal team is impressive, though.  Given their description of supervised visits, I'm surprised they didn't an in a "detail" of how the DFS supervisors were armed (there were a half dozen DFS employees at every visit?  really?  social services departments are notoriously understaffed, no one is sending more than one or two, max, to these visits) with big scary guns and stared at them menacingly while summoning demons, who were tasked with keeping the child sick.

This.

You have to wonder why the family is bringing in "additional first amendment lawyers" to impose gag orders on anyone and everyone involved in this case.  Anything that has to do with their child's diagnosis would be protected by HIPAA.  What are they trying to keep from getting out?


you got that one backwards, the Family is bringing in First Amendment lawyers to fight AGAINST the gag order the judge put on the closed door case. re-read the article. And according to the article the judge put an earlier gag order on the case as well that the parents broke by contacting the news when this first started
2014-02-25 07:58:55 PM  
1 votes:
How about we get a second opinion before you steal the kid?
2014-02-25 07:50:23 PM  
1 votes:

duffblue: Glad you fools managed to turn this into a red vs blue affair, even though it has nothing to do with your politics.


The thing is, the kid isnt dead or dying (any more than us living are), there are law talking guys involved, and the doctors in the case cant talk about it... so the joy of it is the red versus blue.

At least until this farked up shiat gets unfarked.
2014-02-25 07:41:09 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: By the way, those of you claiming Boston Children's Hospital wins over Tufts because "fark you they do"...

It's not like BCH has ever, EVER, been guilty of malpractice.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/12/19/jury_finds_2_d oc tors_at_childrens_hospital_caused_boys_death/

BCH is infallible apparently, but Tufts is wrong.

Instead of a third opinion you are advocating for the State to be the Medical Doctor of the child as they are the ones choosing which opinion is valid and which is not.

Instead of the state deciding which opinion is valid, let a third respected doctor to do so.  The state has no medical training to make the necessary decision on which set of doctors is right.


Show me a hospital of any moderate-to-large size that has never had a malpractice suit won against them and I'll show you some green cheese from the moon.
2014-02-25 07:39:52 PM  
1 votes:

Nix Nightbird: their own theory of hypochondria


I don't think the term "hypochondria" appears once in the entire article.  Furthermore, I don't think hypochondria means what you seem to think it means.
2014-02-25 07:35:37 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: MyRandomName: Mitochondrial disease doesn't have different symptoms based on age.

Which one? Do you even know what you're talking about?

MyRandomName: Basically your argument is Tuft Hospital is full of shiat doctors. Got it.

My argument is I am apt to believe a center world renown for metabolic disorders versus a center which does not specialize in it. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop putting words in my mouth and attributing them to me, ass.

That is the basis of your argument. Again, 2 sets of doctors, 2 opinions. Get a third. You dont get to pick and choose which doctor is to be trusted more. Medicine doesn't work that way. Get a third opinion. It would stop the whole mess fairly quickly, don't you think?

A 3rd independent analysis by a respected doctor would end the whole mess. Why is that not even a consideration in your book? This issue could have ended a year ago.


You know, I think this may be the first time I've ever agreed with a post of yours.  I guess it just goes to show that it's better not to put people you disagree with on ignore, because they may surprise you someday.


MyRandomName:Quite amazing that the only ones who have brought in politics are the ones hoping the state, and I guess liberalism, wins.

Aaaaaaaaand we're back to normal again, I see.  Carry on.
2014-02-25 07:34:50 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: From what I understand about this case, Boston Childrens reported the suspected abuse because the child was found to have been "doctor shopped" among various pediatricians and ERs in the area, each time with a different diagnosis of a chronic disease, not just a mitochondrial disorder. (And yes, there ARE different s/s of mitochondrial disorders. It is NOT just one disease)


According to the Boston globe article I linked above, you're wrong.

The doctor at Tuft's, Korson, referred her to a Boston Children's doctor for gastrointestinal problems.

Also, Korson happens to be the "chief of metabolism" at Tufts, whatever that means and for whatever it's worth.
2014-02-25 07:30:08 PM  
1 votes:

ActionJoe: apparently the daughter has gotten worse.


The only ones saying the daughter has gotten worse is the parents, who have no reason to say she's gotten any better, obviously.

Given that HIPAA (two "A"s, one "P", folks) prevents the hospital from discussing the details of treatment to the public, it's pretty clear that this article was sourced almost entirely from the family's claims.  Not really good reporting.

The amount of obvious hyperbole on the part of the parents and their legal team is impressive, though.  Given their description of supervised visits, I'm surprised they didn't an in a "detail" of how the DFS supervisors were armed (there were a half dozen DFS employees at every visit?  really?  social services departments are notoriously understaffed, no one is sending more than one or two, max, to these visits) with big scary guns and stared at them menacingly while summoning demons, who were tasked with keeping the child sick.
2014-02-25 07:25:24 PM  
1 votes:

beaverfetus: it's a small point but I think what a lot of medical people are thinking is a "set of doctors" isn't really a thing. They have like 30 genetics folks at Boston Childrens, and literally hundreds of internal medicine attendings there. I'm sure first, second, third and fourth opinions have already been obtained. Munchhausen by proxy is a diagnosis of last resort for pediatricians.


Shh. Don't let it slip that there are entire departments in these Children's Hospitals that specialize in the treatment of these disorders, not just one doctor. He might have to go with a new straw to grasp at.
2014-02-25 07:25:19 PM  
1 votes:

plewis: czetie: Does mitochondrial disease prevent her from using the Force?

No but she has smokers cough from smoking, brewers droop from drinking beer.


I don't know how you came to get the Bette Davis knees, but worst of all young man you've got Industrial Disease.
2014-02-25 07:19:14 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: MyRandomName: Mitochondrial disease doesn't have different symptoms based on age.

Which one? Do you even know what you're talking about?

MyRandomName: Basically your argument is Tuft Hospital is full of shiat doctors. Got it.

My argument is I am apt to believe a center world renown for metabolic disorders versus a center which does not specialize in it. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop putting words in my mouth and attributing them to me, ass.


That is the basis of your argument. Again, 2 sets of doctors, 2 opinions. Get a third. You dont get to pick and choose which doctor is to be trusted more. Medicine doesn't work that way. Get a third opinion. It would stop the whole mess fairly quickly, don't you think?

A 3rd independent analysis by a respected doctor would end the whole mess. Why is that not even a consideration in your book? This issue could have ended a year ago.
Boe
2014-02-25 07:18:08 PM  
1 votes:

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Rapmaster2000: Sounds like an episode of House.  I'm sure it's been said, but why does no one ever suspect House?  People have these crazy diseases and only House can fix them.  It's like Murder She Wrote.  Every time she comes to town somebody dies.

Who would continue to live in the town that Murder She Wrote lived in?  At least there was an explanation for why people continued to live in Sunnydale.


Don't EVEN get me started on Midsomer.  What a deathtrap.
2014-02-25 07:14:33 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: cman: We are only hearing one side of the story

Before everyone goes apeshiat lets remember that

2 sets of doctors, 2 different opinions. Instead of state sanctioned kidnapping, how about a tiebreaker first.


Boston children's is about the size of every other pediatrics division in Massachusetts put together times maybe... 5?

Seriously. That place is massive, their GI/ nutrition department is the largest in the world, so is their genetic division. I'm just saying not all opinions are necessarily equal. Boston Children's is a pretty unique place.  Also given the HIPPA constraints, the doctors are always going to be at a massive PR disadvantage.
2014-02-25 07:14:32 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Mitochondrial disease doesn't have different symptoms based on age.


Which one? Do you even know what you're talking about?

MyRandomName: Basically your argument is Tuft Hospital is full of shiat doctors. Got it.


My argument is I am apt to believe a center world renown for metabolic disorders versus a center which does not specialize in it. Nothing more, nothing less. Stop putting words in my mouth and attributing them to me, ass.
2014-02-25 07:14:30 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: MyRandomName: wyltoknow: Yeeeah, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this hospital wouldnt be inclined to go through the hellish process of removing a child from their parents custody and receive all the obvious negative publicity just because they felt like stirring the pot.

And the other hospital was just doing procedures on the girl for shiats and giggles? One hospital good, other bad? Based on?

Based upon your hatred for anything government-related I'm gonna go with "you have no idea what actually happened and are just being reactionary as usual"


Based on your strawman of my views I will go with your continued ignorance.

Please do tell. What do I have wrong. Tuft was paid by the mother to make up a diagnosis. Do go on.
2014-02-25 07:08:40 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Gag order should be illegal. What jury is being tainted?


None.  It's for the protection of the child's privacy, to prevent a kid from being the center of a media circus like this.
2014-02-25 07:03:41 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: And the other hospital was just doing procedures on the girl for shiats and giggles? One hospital good, other bad? Based on?


If you have a child who is ill, you don't take them to an adult or non-pediatric specialty hospital for anything like a mitochondrial disorder - something that SHOULD be diagnosed only after an expert in genetics, metabolic diseases and/or endocrinology sees the child.

And adult hospitals will, as a rule, overtreat or undertreat a child. Defensive medicine.
2014-02-25 07:01:23 PM  
1 votes:

justtray: Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.


And they keep trying to try it in the press.  That's always a bad sign.
2014-02-25 06:59:01 PM  
1 votes:
Over in two.

I'm always siding with the Doctors barring facts that prove otherwise.

On one hand we have people professionally educated and trained to diagnose disease. On the other we have a woman that faints in a court room, who is simply convinced her child has a very rare genetic disease, based on.... things.
2014-02-25 06:58:49 PM  
1 votes:
All power to the state! Individuals have no rights! Woo hoo! Liberalism!

Liberal Vermonters just got a 2 year old killed because they gave her back to a mom that previously broke her leg. Here the state won't even let a second opinion be heard?

Maybe we should let the government take care of everything, they are so good at it.
2014-02-25 06:56:56 PM  
1 votes:

Zik-Zak: MyRandomName: cman: We are only hearing one side of the story

Before everyone goes apeshiat lets remember that

2 sets of doctors, 2 different opinions. Instead of state sanctioned kidnapping, how about a tiebreaker first.

Hell in a the Cell...?


*womp womp*
2014-02-25 06:36:28 PM  
1 votes:
Mitochondrial Disease...isn't that a Dire Straits tune?
433 [TotalFark]
2014-02-25 06:28:26 PM  
1 votes:
arlingtonwa.org
 
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