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(Marketwatch)   A new, clear image of North Korea from orbit, at night, reminds us that one way to save energy is not to have any in the first place   (blogs.marketwatch.com) divider line 116
    More: Sad, North Korea  
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8512 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2014 at 2:30 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-25 01:53:10 PM  
Well based on the image 20 years ago vs. the one now, it seems they've increased the number of dots from 1 to 5. That's pretty impressive!
 
2014-02-25 02:00:07 PM  
Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS
 
2014-02-25 02:06:54 PM  
On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.
 
2014-02-25 02:08:11 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS


I take it you've never seen this.
 
2014-02-25 02:08:32 PM  

make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.


mimg.ugo.com
 
2014-02-25 02:10:16 PM  
img.pandawhale.com
 
2014-02-25 02:20:57 PM  

make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.


Yep. Very small carbon footprint.
 
2014-02-25 02:26:11 PM  
They even use recycled tires for fuel, as shown in this video of an obsolete steam engine.
 
2014-02-25 02:31:40 PM  
Actually, if you don't have any energy, you're not likely to save any. Now, you can avoid wasting energy by not having any, but you still can't save what you don't have.
 
2014-02-25 02:39:38 PM  
Somewhat high mountain range down the center and very little light polution.  They should invest in a telescope.
 
2014-02-25 02:42:21 PM  
This is the worst country existing on the planet. Africa has some places that give them a run for their money, but NK wins for their massive work camps, systemized killing of innocents, and a total disregard for millions of lives.

Kim Jong Un and his entire government can't die soon enough.
 
2014-02-25 02:44:06 PM  

make me some tea: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS

I take it you've never seen this.


Or this one
 
2014-02-25 02:49:21 PM  
Since it is Walking Around With a Big Stick Up Your Ass Day, let me point out that polluting the night sky to the point of robbing people from the joys of looking at the stars, planets, moons, comets, shooting stars, UFOs, black helicopters, etc is not a sign of advancement.

We may be advanced technologically but technically we aren't advanced. Which is the best kind of advanced.
 
2014-02-25 02:50:37 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.


Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..
 
2014-02-25 02:52:41 PM  

Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..


I think for that to be the case, Best Koreans would have to actually eat
 
2014-02-25 03:00:17 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Since it is Walking Around With a Big Stick Up Your Ass Day, let me point out that polluting the night sky to the point of robbing people from the joys of looking at the stars, planets, moons, comets, shooting stars, UFOs, black helicopters, etc is not a sign of advancement.

We may be advanced technologically but technically we aren't advanced. Which is the best kind of advanced.


I don't know. Good or bad, being so burningly visible from space is impressive no matter what.
 
2014-02-25 03:00:44 PM  

Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..


They power a lot of their vehicles with a wood gas system hooked up to the diesel engine. That may be post apocalyptic steam punk looking, but it takes a lot of trees.
 
2014-02-25 03:00:54 PM  

Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..


This.  NK is an environmental disaster.
 
2014-02-25 03:02:24 PM  

Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..


I was cracking a joke, but now I'm curious as to comparison of the carbon output from home cooking vs. power generation.
 
2014-02-25 03:08:16 PM  

make me some tea: Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..

I was cracking a joke, but now I'm curious as to comparison of the carbon output from home cooking vs. power generation.


It's not the carbon that's the problem really recent carbon is considered by most climate scientists to be OK because it's not adding to the carbon cycle.

It's the smog and deforestation that is the problem.  Climate change has nothing on the radical change in local weather, water tables, and wildlife that deforestation causes.  Like HMS_Blinkin said, it's a disaster.
 
2014-02-25 03:09:14 PM  
It's also worth noting that South Korea has more than twice the population of North Korea. Usually you don't light up unpopulated areas at night.
 
2014-02-25 03:14:29 PM  

MrEricSir: It's also worth noting that South Korea has more than twice the population of North Korea. Usually you don't light up unpopulated areas at night.


There's still an estimated 25 million in Best Korea, should be more lit up then that...
 
2014-02-25 03:19:21 PM  

MrEricSir: It's also worth noting that South Korea has more than twice the population of North Korea. Usually you don't light up unpopulated areas at night.


Pennsylvania is roughly the same size in square miles (PA is 500 sq miles smaller) with half the population of Best Korea.

Here's Pennsylvania at night:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-25 03:19:43 PM  

Egoy3k: It's not the carbon that's the problem really recent carbon is considered by most climate scientists to be OK because it's not adding to the carbon cycle.

It's the smog and deforestation that is the problem.  Climate change has nothing on the radical change in local weather, water tables, and wildlife that deforestation causes.  Like HMS_Blinkin said, it's a disaster.


Oh, that makes sense. I imagine that's gonna get dicey when the last trees are felled.
 
2014-02-25 03:22:34 PM  
Clearly a gross distortion from the imperialist Nazi American media. Electricity is widespread and plentiful in Best Korea.

Lightbulbs not so much.
 
2014-02-25 03:32:42 PM  
But but but they NEED that nuclear plant to supply power to their people!  See how hideously oppressed they are by the USA?  They would be a blinding sea of white light if it weren't for those Evil Americans!

/because they apparently need to export all of their coal for $$$ rather than using it themselves.
 
2014-02-25 03:33:31 PM  
Best Korea is decades ahead of us in addressing the problem of Light Pollution. We should be applauding them, not laughing at them.
 
2014-02-25 03:42:19 PM  

Egoy3k: Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.

Producing (burning) and then burning charcoal for cooking and heating is the exact opposite of sound environmental policy..


That's the joke.
 
2014-02-25 03:43:28 PM  

MrBallou: Best Korea is decades ahead of us in addressing the problem of Light Pollution. We should be applauding them, not laughing at them.


I guess Best Korea is the starting point for the 1000 years of darkness Chuck Norris predicted.
 
2014-02-25 03:47:19 PM  
TFH:  A new, clear image of North Korea

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-25 03:49:22 PM  

Subby: A new, clear image


Oh, you...
 
2014-02-25 03:49:58 PM  
Tiny fist shaken at noazark...
 
2014-02-25 03:55:55 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Since it is Walking Around With a Big Stick Up Your Ass Day, let me point out that polluting the night sky to the point of robbing people from the joys of looking at the stars, planets, moons, comets, shooting stars, UFOs, black helicopters, etc is not a sign of advancement.

We may be advanced technologically but technically we aren't advanced. Which is the best kind of advanced.


I agree, we really shouldn't be spilling light all into the night sky. "Light the ground, not the sky"

Fantasy:
http://www.space.com/20542-darkened-cities-night-sky-photos.html
What the night sky would look like from several major cities if there wasn't light pollution, by Thierry Cohen:

i.space.com
cdn.visualnews.com
 
2014-02-25 04:02:18 PM  
We won't be laughing so hard when the inevitable alien invasion wipes out everyone BUT north korea because they assumed no one was home..

//oh, who am I kidding.. it'd still be funny.
 
2014-02-25 04:03:51 PM  
Kind of looks like they are allowed to sleep... or look at the stars if they want.
 
2014-02-25 04:11:45 PM  

StopLurkListen: Fantasy:http://www.space.com/20542-darkened-cities-night-sky-photos.h t mlWhat the night sky would look like from several major cities if there wasn't light pollution, by Thierry Cohen:


Nice.

Post Apocalypse night skies will be beautiful.  Something to look forward to.
 
2014-02-25 04:17:26 PM  

MayoSlather: This is the worst country existing on the planet. Africa has some places that give them a run for their money, but NK wins for their massive work camps, systemized killing of innocents, and a total disregard for millions of lives.

Kim Jong Un and his entire government can't die soon enough.


Well...yeah and no.

Yeah, Un and his cronies can't die soon enough...except if NK collapsed tomorrow, pushing that country into the modern-day in every aspect of life there would be monumental.  The humanitarian crisis would be...the biggest since the end of WWII in Europe.   China wouldn't want to spend a dollar rebuilding, South Korea/US would have to spend trillions of dollars (not billions, TRILLIONS) just to put that country into a semblance of normalcy.

It's a monumental clusterfark.
 
2014-02-25 04:18:47 PM  
Have another handful of steaks, Kim Jong Ton.
 
2014-02-25 04:21:55 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Since it is Walking Around With a Big Stick Up Your Ass Day, let me point out that polluting the night sky to the point of robbing people from the joys of looking at the stars, planets, moons, comets, shooting stars, UFOs, black helicopters, etc is not a sign of advancement.

We may be advanced technologically but technically we aren't advanced. Which is the best kind of advanced.


came to say this.. i bet the night sky looks wonderful
 
2014-02-25 04:22:59 PM  
And I bet the few lights you do see in North Korea are the searchlights at the labor camps.
 
2014-02-25 04:25:14 PM  

scottydoesntknow: MrEricSir: It's also worth noting that South Korea has more than twice the population of North Korea. Usually you don't light up unpopulated areas at night.

Pennsylvania is roughly the same size in square miles (PA is 500 sq miles smaller) with half the population of Best Korea.

Here's Pennsylvania at night:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x637]


So I have to chose between living in Pennsylvania or North Korea?

I'm thinking, I thinking.........
 
2014-02-25 04:26:13 PM  

Zul the Magnificent: StopLurkListen: Fantasy:http://www.space.com/20542-darkened-cities-night-sky-photos.h t mlWhat the night sky would look like from several major cities if there wasn't light pollution, by Thierry Cohen:

Nice.

Post Apocalypse night skies will be beautiful.  Something to look forward to.


I know, right... it looks like a "Life After People" shot. :(
 
2014-02-25 04:26:24 PM  

Zul the Magnificent: StopLurkListen: Fantasy:http://www.space.com/20542-darkened-cities-night-sky-photos.h t mlWhat the night sky would look like from several major cities if there wasn't light pollution, by Thierry Cohen:

Nice.

Post Apocalypse night skies will be beautiful.  Something to look forward to.


I'm working on it.

Do you have any idea how expensive anti-matter is?
/and don't ask me about the failure of my anti-pesto initiative... i was grossly misinformed
 
2014-02-25 04:27:29 PM  
s.wsj.net

So, interior China and the whole of Mongolia are in the same boat? It's like they only bother lighting their borders!
 
2014-02-25 04:29:07 PM  

dj_spanmaster: [s.wsj.net image 569x398]

So, interior China and the whole of Mongolia are in the same boat? It's like they only bother lighting their borders!


upload.wikimedia.org
That's the Gobi Desert.
 
2014-02-25 04:31:20 PM  
what does Afghanistan look like at night?
 
2014-02-25 04:32:05 PM  
When South Korea get its land back from the occupying regime in North Korea, the environmental cleanup will be as big a cost sink as supporting millions of people from a defunct economy.
 
2014-02-25 04:32:18 PM  

StopLurkListen: dj_spanmaster: [s.wsj.net image 569x398]

So, interior China and the whole of Mongolia are in the same boat? It's like they only bother lighting their borders!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x676]
That's the Gobi Desert.


And Gobi is getting larger!
 
2014-02-25 04:32:19 PM  
For the folks who think they are having smaller carbon footprint, saving energy, it is not necessarily true. If they don't have electricity, they would burn candle or oil, only less efficient, that all. They would also burn more woods as that is readily available (just chop down a tree while no one is looking).

You do save a lot when you are not driving, but besides that, you are actually burning and wasting even more.
 
2014-02-25 04:32:31 PM  

StopLurkListen: dj_spanmaster: [s.wsj.net image 569x398]

So, interior China and the whole of Mongolia are in the same boat? It's like they only bother lighting their borders!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x676]
That's the Gobi Desert.


Ah! Makes so much more sense, I'd neglected considering topography, which in retrospect appears lacking. In my defense, the Gobi and Mongolia have vaguely similar outlines.
 
2014-02-25 04:37:46 PM  

RaiderFanMikeP: what does Afghanistan look like at night?


Tracer fire mostly.
 
2014-02-25 04:40:02 PM  

RaiderFanMikeP: what does Afghanistan look like at night?


I'd like to know the answer to this as well.  The view of the night sky from a small FOB was spectacular.
 
2014-02-25 04:44:49 PM  
It must be amazing to look up at the stars there.

/stupid city light pollution.
 
2014-02-25 05:00:13 PM  
and this makes it clear if not for the Chinese propping up their north Korean buddies the dictators would have gone tits up decades ago when the people had had enough, sham eis now they probably have grown to accept the nightmare as normal.
 
2014-02-25 05:12:58 PM  

SpaceBison: It must be amazing to look up at the stars there.

/stupid city light pollution.


You know you could always take a camping trip.

I live out in the sticks. It is nice to be able to go out back, roast some marshmallows, and look up at the stars without any city light interference.  It's also nice to get up when I'm done, go into my warm house, cook something on the stove, and watch tv or goof off on the computer.

I'm almost certain living in the city has some perks, too.  Otherwise, so many people wouldn't be living there.
 
2014-02-25 05:28:24 PM  
I enjoy snapping night sky photos during my travels. I've been working on improving my techniques with single exposures.

Snapped this up in Iceland a few weeks ago:
scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net

Sailing in British Columbia this last fall (that's my boat on the right):
scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net

Visiting Yellowstone last summer:
scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-02-25 05:29:59 PM  

dj_spanmaster: [s.wsj.net image 569x398]

So, interior China and the whole of Mongolia are in the same boat? It's like they only bother lighting their borders!


That's the "before" shot from 20 years ago.  Things have changed a bit (although the "after" shot doesn't show interior of China as much).
 
2014-02-25 05:32:06 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: make me some tea: On the bright side, at least they appear to be conserving energy better than the rest of us.

Yep. Very small carbon footprint.


So North Korea is the Eco-Warrior's equivalent of Somalia to the Libertarian?
 
2014-02-25 05:44:42 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Well based on the image 20 years ago vs. the one now, it seems they've increased the number of dots from 1 to 5. That's pretty impressive!


That's where the Happy Fun Camps are located
 
2014-02-25 05:55:16 PM  
Kangaroo_Ralph:

I'm almost certain living in the city has some perks, too.  Otherwise, so many people wouldn't be living there.

For some, the lights and noise at night are the perk.
 
2014-02-25 06:02:14 PM  

drumhellar: For some, the lights and noise at night are the perk.


Yuuuuuup
 
2014-02-25 06:06:22 PM  

StopLurkListen: TheShavingofOccam123: Since it is Walking Around With a Big Stick Up Your Ass Day, let me point out that polluting the night sky to the point of robbing people from the joys of looking at the stars, planets, moons, comets, shooting stars, UFOs, black helicopters, etc is not a sign of advancement.

We may be advanced technologically but technically we aren't advanced. Which is the best kind of advanced.

I agree, we really shouldn't be spilling light all into the night sky. "Light the ground, not the sky"

Fantasy:
http://www.space.com/20542-darkened-cities-night-sky-photos.html
What the night sky would look like from several major cities if there wasn't light pollution, by Thierry Cohen:

[i.space.com image 575x383]
[cdn.visualnews.com image 600x400]


Reminds me of Boca when Wilma knocked out power for most of the state.  The night sky was AMAZING
 
2014-02-25 06:09:27 PM  

drumhellar: Kangaroo_Ralph:

I'm almost certain living in the city has some perks, too.  Otherwise, so many people wouldn't be living there.

For some, the lights and noise at night are the perk.


Yeah, sleeping in the country can be kind of creepy. It's dark, really dark, and the sound from all the wildlife is beautiful except when you're trying to sleep. And every tree branch cracking sounds like some chainsaw wielding serial killer closing in for the kill.
/I watch to many horror movies.
 
2014-02-25 06:14:25 PM  
one way to save energy is not to have any in the first place

You don't know that they don't have any energy. Maybe they're like a billion times more efficient, to such a degree that they don't even waste any on unneeded light.
 
2014-02-25 06:31:56 PM  

jjorsett: one way to save energy is not to have any in the first place

You don't know that they don't have any energy. Maybe they're like a billion times more efficient, to such a degree that they don't even waste any on unneeded light.


So Best Korea is a nation of cat people?
 
2014-02-25 06:41:37 PM  
Best Korea recycles human feces as fertilizer. To be fair, that is very environmentally conscious.
 
2014-02-25 06:44:48 PM  

MrSteve007: I enjoy snapping night sky photos during my travels. I've been working on improving my techniques with single exposures.

Snapped this up in Iceland a few weeks ago:


Where did you stay or snap those shots if you don't mind?  Heading up there soon too, staying in Hveagardi (or however you spell it).  Wasn't it you that toured the greenhouse and posted a pic for some hydroponic tomatoes?
 
2014-02-25 07:10:22 PM  

Rwa2play: MayoSlather: This is the worst country existing on the planet. Africa has some places that give them a run for their money, but NK wins for their massive work camps, systemized killing of innocents, and a total disregard for millions of lives.

Kim Jong Un and his entire government can't die soon enough.

Well...yeah and no.

Yeah, Un and his cronies can't die soon enough...except if NK collapsed tomorrow, pushing that country into the modern-day in every aspect of life there would be monumental.  The humanitarian crisis would be...the biggest since the end of WWII in Europe.   China wouldn't want to spend a dollar rebuilding, South Korea/US would have to spend trillions of dollars (not billions, TRILLIONS) just to put that country into a semblance of normalcy.

It's a monumental clusterfark.


Well if nothing else the rebuilder does get to use best korea as a lump of unmolded clay. Though it will be a big shiat sandwich the first few years.
 
2014-02-25 07:21:56 PM  
My grandfather was in the Korean War, and keeps a similar picture framed up in the living room.

War sucks. Nothing fun about kids killing other kids they've never met.
 
2014-02-25 07:22:36 PM  

wingnut396: Where did you stay or snap those shots if you don't mind? Heading up there soon too, staying in Hveagardi (or however you spell it). Wasn't it you that toured the greenhouse and posted a pic for some hydroponic tomatoes?


Yup. That was me. I went up to Akureyri (staying @ Icelandair Hotel Akureyri), in search of the northern lights - however the weather up there at the time was very, very poor.
scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net

The night before heading back to the US, I have it another try. The northern lights photo was taken when I was staying in Reykjavik (@ Hotel Natura) and was on a northern lights & spa tour through Thingvellir national park, which isn't too far from Hveagardi. You have to get an hour or so out of town though; the always-lit greenhouses of Hveagardi make night sky photography difficult anywhere near the town.
 
2014-02-25 07:27:05 PM  

MrSteve007: I enjoy snapping night sky photos during my travels. I've been working on improving my techniques with single exposures.

Snapped this up in Iceland a few weeks ago:
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x566]

Sailing in British Columbia this last fall (that's my boat on the right):
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x1275]

Visiting Yellowstone last summer:
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x1143]


Nice. Those are beautiful shots.
 
2014-02-25 07:27:54 PM  

MrSteve007: wingnut396: Where did you stay or snap those shots if you don't mind? Heading up there soon too, staying in Hveagardi (or however you spell it). Wasn't it you that toured the greenhouse and posted a pic for some hydroponic tomatoes?

Yup. That was me. I went up to Akureyri (staying @ Icelandair Hotel Akureyri), in search of the northern lights - however the weather up there at the time was very, very poor.
[scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x478]

The night before heading back to the US, I have it another try. The northern lights photo was taken when I was staying in Reykjavik (@ Hotel Natura) and was on a northern lights & spa tour through Thingvellir national park, which isn't too far from Hveagardi. You have to get an hour or so out of town though; the always-lit greenhouses of Hveagardi make night sky photography difficult anywhere near the town.


Is it too much to ask that you post that picture in this thread? I love aurora borealis pictures!
 
2014-02-25 07:28:53 PM  

MrSteve007: wingnut396: Where did you stay or snap those shots if you don't mind? Heading up there soon too, staying in Hveagardi (or however you spell it). Wasn't it you that toured the greenhouse and posted a pic for some hydroponic tomatoes?

Yup. That was me. I went up to Akureyri (staying @ Icelandair Hotel Akureyri), in search of the northern lights - however the weather up there at the time was very, very poor.
[scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x478]

The night before heading back to the US, I have it another try. The northern lights photo was taken when I was staying in Reykjavik (@ Hotel Natura) and was on a northern lights & spa tour through Thingvellir national park, which isn't too far from Hveagardi. You have to get an hour or so out of town though; the always-lit greenhouses of Hveagardi make night sky photography difficult anywhere near the town.


Nevermind if it's the one up above, I thought it was a sunset and just noticed the green. Beautiful pic!
 
2014-02-25 07:58:49 PM  

MrBallou: Best Korea is decades ahead of us in addressing the problem of Light Pollution. We should be applauding them, not laughing at them.


I'm Totes stealing this for Facebook, I would be cray not to
 
2014-02-25 08:07:02 PM  

Boojum2k: Nevermind if it's the one up above, I thought it was a sunset and just noticed the green. Beautiful pic!


While I had never intended to make a time-lapse of that scene, I made a short 10-second one. Next time I'll make sure to standardize my exposure time to smooth out the video and brightness. That would really improve it.
 
2014-02-25 08:07:51 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS


IS there any thread you won't troll?
 
2014-02-25 08:10:15 PM  

MrSteve007: Boojum2k: Nevermind if it's the one up above, I thought it was a sunset and just noticed the green. Beautiful pic!

While I had never intended to make a time-lapse of that scene, I made a short 10-second one. Next time I'll make sure to standardize my exposure time to smooth out the video and brightness. That would really improve it.


Thank you, that is great!
 
2014-02-25 08:10:22 PM  

Cerebral Knievel: MrBallou: Best Korea is decades ahead of us in addressing the problem of Light Pollution. We should be applauding them, not laughing at them.

I'm Totes stealing this for Facebook, I would be cray not to


I'm flattered.
 
2014-02-25 08:13:55 PM  
Should I be horrified at that?

Or should I be impressed that about 90% of china is also lights free?

Considering the country has 1.5 billion people, that's incredible.
 
2014-02-25 08:13:56 PM  

make me some tea: Egoy3k: It's not the carbon that's the problem really recent carbon is considered by most climate scientists to be OK because it's not adding to the carbon cycle.

It's the smog and deforestation that is the problem.  Climate change has nothing on the radical change in local weather, water tables, and wildlife that deforestation causes.  Like HMS_Blinkin said, it's a disaster.

Oh, that makes sense. I imagine that's gonna get dicey when the last trees are felled.


i.imgur.com

Ask Haiti about that. You can distinctively see the border with the Dominican Republic from the air due to their deforestation.

Its one reason the mudslides suck and they dont have much in the way of trees for heating or to make charcoal with anymore.
 
2014-02-25 08:16:31 PM  

MrSteve007: I enjoy snapping night sky photos during my travels. I've been working on improving my techniques with single exposures.

Snapped this up in Iceland a few weeks ago:
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x566]

Sailing in British Columbia this last fall (that's my boat on the right):
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x1275]

Visiting Yellowstone last summer:
[scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x1143]


Exposure time?
 
2014-02-25 08:19:43 PM  

dr_blasto: Actually, if you don't have any energy, you're not likely to save any. Now, you can avoid wasting energy by not having any, but you still can't save what you don't have.


"But if you don't already have any of it to begin with, you can't get any of it to get started which means you really have no idea how to get it in the first place ... do you?"

theinspirationroom.com

/doot dee doot dee doot dee dee dee
 
2014-02-25 08:32:25 PM  

Saiga410: Exposure time?


Depending on the photo, they'll vary depending on the lens. I usually shoot the night sky with either a 24 mm or fisheye - which will greatly change the exposure time. The Yellowstone photo was shot with a 16 second exposure, ISO 1600 at f/1.4 with a 24 mm lens.
 
2014-02-25 08:39:34 PM  
The good news is that countries lacking a mature power grid and infrastructure tend to be less effective at making war.
 
2014-02-25 08:53:04 PM  

make me some tea: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS

I take it you've never seen this.


Absolutely gorgeous video! Thank you for posting that!
 
2014-02-25 08:58:24 PM  

make me some tea: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Wow, something of interest actually came from the ISS

I take it you've never seen this.


WOW. I had never seen that, so I thank you for linking it.
 
2014-02-25 11:30:53 PM  

Rwa2play: South Korea/US would have to spend trillions of dollars (not billions, TRILLIONS) just to put that country into a semblance of normalcy.


Unfortunately you're probably right.  Other than the whole nuclear part of it I'd love to see them collapse and the US not offer a dime.  It's a world problem, the world should pay for it.
 
2014-02-26 12:03:33 AM  

mjbok: Rwa2play: South Korea/US would have to spend trillions of dollars (not billions, TRILLIONS) just to put that country into a semblance of normalcy.

Unfortunately you're probably right.  Other than the whole nuclear part of it I'd love to see them collapse and the US not offer a dime.  It's a world problem, the world should pay for it.


go back and read a history book...  This is a problem of our choosing long before I was born...  hell, we are still officially at war with north korea...
 
2014-02-26 12:09:40 AM  

Maul555: This is a problem of our choosing long before I was born


Um, if we hadn't "chosen the problem," then we'd be looking at an entire blacked-out peninsula, not just the northern half.
 
2014-02-26 02:01:08 AM  

Maul555: go back and read a history book...  This is a problem of our choosing long before I was born...


I take it you are North Korean or Chinese.
 
2014-02-26 03:32:54 AM  
Actually, I figure it depends on the time they took the pictures.  Local councils all over the UK are turning off the lights after midnight.  Soon, between midnight and 5am England will disappear from the map...
 
2014-02-26 08:23:14 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Maul555: go back and read a history book...  This is a problem of our choosing long before I was born...

I take it you are North Korean or Chinese.


I am American.      Are you saying someone forced us to invade the Korean Peninsula with a gun to our heads?  If we hadent have done that, then the entire place would be Best Korea right now, but hey, at least it wouldn't be OUR problem, right guys?
 
2014-02-26 09:28:53 AM  
Late to the thread, but this is the world at night. Notice hellholes like North Korea, such as Canada, Australia, and Alaska:

www.shindles.co.uk

(clickypop)
 
2014-02-26 09:51:38 AM  

KidneyStone: Reminds me of Boca when Wilma knocked out power for most of the state.  The night sky was AMAZING


I happened to be in Fort Lauderdale for business when Wilma hit - yes, the sky was AMAZING, the stabilization of the atmosphere afterwards helped with that.

I've been a lifelong astronomy nerd, and I always thought the pinnacle of beauty that was the night sky existed in the White Mountains of NH. Then I went out west for the first time. Unbelievable, never saw such beautiful skies. Next time, I'm bringing my ETX. THEN I found out that they do seasonal full-moon journeys in Bryce Canyon. I think that would be the ultimate for me.
 
2014-02-26 10:14:13 AM  
Personally, I'm jealous.
Must be nice to see stars.

Must be nice to have the infrastructure support recycling.
Must be nice with all those gun totin' womens
 
2014-02-26 10:33:25 AM  

Maul555: I am American.      Are you saying someone forced us to invade the Korean Peninsula with a gun to our heads?



I'll bite.  When did you invade the Korean Peninsula?

And I'll tell you the part I know about...North Korea invaded South Korea in June 1950.   It was a slaughter.  The north was heavily militarized with mobile armor and artillery and greater troop numbers, the south had none of that.  Untold thousands of South Koreans civilians were slaughtered within days, and half a million abandoned their homes to flee south away from the invasion.   The U.N. security council voted to use military action to defend the mostly defenseless South Koreans.  A U.N. organized force from 20 nations, of which the U.S. was one, intervened on behalf of South Korea the following month, on July 1950.  The North had moved so fast that by the time U.N. forces arrived, NK already occupied more than 80% of South Korea.

Now, with that out of the way, it sounds like you have a very interesting story to tell....
 
2014-02-26 11:03:54 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I'll bite. ...


It is simpler than that. Prior to and during WWII, Korea was a Japanese colony. Afterward, Russia and the USA divided Japan's spoils. MacArthur ruled South Korea for all intents and purposes. Any government propped up by the natives was a weak puppet of the USA. An invasion by the north was perceived as no different than an invasion of the Philippines, Guam, or Texas.
 
2014-02-26 11:38:15 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Maul555: I am American.      Are you saying someone forced us to invade the Korean Peninsula with a gun to our heads?


I'll bite.  When did you invade the Korean Peninsula?

And I'll tell you the part I know about...North Korea invaded South Korea in June 1950.   It was a slaughter.  The north was heavily militarized with mobile armor and artillery and greater troop numbers, the south had none of that.  Untold thousands of South Koreans civilians were slaughtered within days, and half a million abandoned their homes to flee south away from the invasion.   The U.N. security council voted to use military action to defend the mostly defenseless South Koreans.  A U.N. organized force from 20 nations, of which the U.S. was one, intervened on behalf of South Korea the following month, on July 1950.  The North had moved so fast that by the time U.N. forces arrived, NK already occupied more than 80% of South Korea.

Now, with that out of the way, it sounds like you have a very interesting story to tell....


No shiat...  I was responding to the guy who seems to think that the entire Korean situation is none of our business, and it is instead a world problem, and the world can take care of it while we pretend we have never even heard of the place.
 
2014-02-26 11:45:12 AM  

Maul555: I was responding to the guy who seems to think that the entire Korean situation is none of our business, and it is instead a world problem, and the world can take care of it while we pretend we have never even heard of the place.


I'm assuming that is directed at me.  I'm not saying it is none of our business so much as it is NOT JUST OUR PROBLEM.  NK is everyone's problem, not the least of which is China.  The US for some reason is tasked with bearing the financial burden of much of the world's problems.  Should best Korea collapse based solely on geography the US has less impact than many nations.  Of course South Korean puts the US in the discussion, but SK is also a big boy.
 
2014-02-26 11:48:55 AM  

mjbok: Maul555: I was responding to the guy who seems to think that the entire Korean situation is none of our business, and it is instead a world problem, and the world can take care of it while we pretend we have never even heard of the place.

I'm assuming that is directed at me.  I'm not saying it is none of our business so much as it is NOT JUST OUR PROBLEM.  NK is everyone's problem, not the least of which is China.  The US for some reason is tasked with bearing the financial burden of much of the world's problems.  Should best Korea collapse based solely on geography the US has less impact than many nations.  Of course South Korean puts the US in the discussion, but SK is also a big boy.


The world isnt going to take care of this... We have seen what happens when we leave the world to its own devices, and its farking horrible...  This is a problem of our choosing, and wishing the world would come in and throw money at it for us is naive...    The UN is filled with nations that have massive competing interests...  Places like China will fight us hard every step of the way because they DO NOT WANT a democratic capitalist nation that is best-buds with the United States on their borders...  Iether we take help manage the situation, or we let the world fark it up behind our back... Those are the only two options I see.
 
2014-02-26 12:15:05 PM  

Feepit: It is simpler than that. Prior to and during WWII, Korea was a Japanese colony. Afterward, Russia and the USA divided Japan's spoils. MacArthur ruled South Korea for all intents and purposes.


A...colony?  Gotta love the lightspeed spin.  It was a Japanese colony (which sounds nice and legitimate) but when the U.S. kicked Japan out it was a "puppet regime" (evil sounding).

The facts - Japan occupied Korea and literally used the Koreans as slave labor and exported the women to Japan as sex slaves.  The Koreans hated the Japanese occupation with a white hot passion of a thousand suns.  Yes, when the U.S. defeated Japan, we set up a provisional government for them to rule themselves, which was the intent.  We had left, and they had their own democratic government when NK invaded.

Feepit: Any government propped up by the natives was a weak puppet of the USA. An invasion by the north was perceived as no different than an invasion of the Philippines, Guam, or Texas.


Lol, even assuming for a moment this analogy is accurate, which is ridiculous - if texas invaded northward slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians,you wouldn't want the U.S. government to do anything about it?
 
2014-02-26 01:24:26 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: A...colony?  Gotta love the lightspeed spin.  It was a Japanese colony (which sounds nice and legitimate) but when the U.S. kicked Japan out it was a "puppet regime" (evil sounding).


That wasn't intentional and I definitely do not look upon the concept of a colony favorably, considering how much the English, French, Spanish, and Dutch screwed up the world in their endless pursuit of establishing colonies.

ThrobblefootSpectre: We had left, and they had their own democratic government when NK invaded.


Yeah yeah, they had elections because America! Democracy! Too bad North Korea didn't have that. They got whatever the USSR and China wanted them to get. Doesn't mean the South's government was any less a puppet government, up until the end of the cold war with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

ThrobblefootSpectre: Lol, even assuming for a moment this analogy is accurate, which is ridiculous - if texas invaded northward slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians,you wouldn't want the U.S. government to do anything about it?


What? I mean if Texas was invaded by a foreign power. I have no idea where you got the idea of Texas invading the other states from.
 
2014-02-26 01:38:25 PM  

Feepit: Yeah yeah, they had elections because America! Democracy! Too bad North Korea didn't have that. They got whatever the USSR and China wanted them to get. Doesn't mean the South's government was any less a puppet government, up until the end of the cold war with the collapse of the Soviet Union.


I.....am at a loss.  Are you a saying ethnic Koreans were better off under Japan?  Are you saying we shouldn't have let them set up a their own government?  Are you saying the U.N. coalition shouldn't have done anything to stop NK from slaughtering  civilians?  Or....what, exactly?

It's not even clear to me what you are trying to get at.    But I'm replying only to give you the benefit of the doubt that there might be an actual nugget of coherence hiding somewhere behind your "America! Democracy! " rhetoric.
 
2014-02-26 01:51:13 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Are you a saying ethnic Koreans were better off under Japan?


No.

ThrobblefootSpectre: Are you saying we shouldn't have let them set up a their own government?


I am saying the government we initially let them set up as a sham. For all intents and purposes, South Korea was run by the United States.

ThrobblefootSpectre: Are you saying the U.N. coalition shouldn't have done anything to stop NK from slaughtering  civilians?


I am saying that whether or not there was a UN resolution to stop the North Korean invasion, the US had a vested interest in South Korea and would have repelled the invasion regardless.

I agree that South Korea is better off today, but I don't delude myself into thinking the US went to war for them for any other reason than COMMUNISTS and "hey, that's ours!"
 
2014-02-26 02:15:14 PM  

Feepit: I am saying the government we initially let them set up as a sham. For all intents and purposes, South Korea was run by the United States.



Okay, "sham" is an interesting word for it.  After long enough of being enslaved and raped (100% literally) by various other ethnicities, it is understandable that they can't jump right into modern democracy overnight, it took 3 or four years.  So that didn't really answer the question.  Do you feel that we should not have let them form their own government?   I guess the question is, what would you have done differently?  Would you have set up a better government somehow (define better)?  And how?  Or would you have simply left and said "good luck guys!"  What?

If you are going to make accusations like it was a "sham" then apparently you have something in mind, right now that you could type, that should have been done differently.  Could you share that with us?

I get that the U.S. did something evil horrible and wrong in your opinion.  Don't misunderstand me, that part of your general bent is coming through loud and clear.  I'm just trying to pinpoint what you think that evil horrible wrong thing was.  Because from your posts so far I still haven't the faintest clue.
 
2014-02-26 02:43:20 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: After long enough of being enslaved and raped (100% literally) by various other ethnicities, it is understandable that they can't jump right into modern democracy overnight, it took 3 or four years.


And if Japan never attacked the US, Koreans would quite probably still be living in those conditions. The US wouldn't have intervened, just as it does not intervene today in places where human beings are subject to horrendous conditions. Instead, our politicians wring their hands and wonder how those things can happen. The US didn't care about the South Korean people or Koreans in general. It merely saw the situation as an opportunity, felt threatened by the possibility of communist expansion, and acted in its own interests.

Why are you pretending the US is some great liberator? We took over that country and forced our form of government on it because we could, not because we felt it was in South Korea's best interest. Even  after that so-called liberation, US soldiers still made prolific use of Korean "pleasure women." Yeah ... such hero, so freedom.
 
2014-02-26 02:58:21 PM  

Feepit: And if Japan never attacked the US, Koreans would quite probably still be living in those conditions


If you come up with what the U.S. should have been done differently, let us know.  I give up asking.
 
2014-02-26 03:13:38 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: If you come up with what the U.S. should have been done differently, let us know.  I give up asking.


I do not consider myself to be the arbiter of how the world should be run, so of course I am not going to answer your question. I am merely pointing out the US is not some benevolent force, as you seem to believe, and halting the North Korean invasion had little to nothing to do with a concern for the welfare of the Korean people.
 
2014-02-26 03:30:00 PM  

Feepit: ThrobblefootSpectre: If you come up with what the U.S. should have been done differently, let us know.  I give up asking.

I do not consider myself to be the arbiter of how the world should be run, so of course I am not going to answer your question. I am merely pointing out the US is not some benevolent force, as you seem to believe, and halting the North Korean invasion had little to nothing to do with a concern for the welfare of the Korean people.


Derp. By that standard, there are no benevolent forces in the world. Enlightened self-interest does more real good than altruism.
 
2014-02-26 03:38:23 PM  

Boojum2k: Enlightened self-interest does more real good than altruism.


Yeah, the same enlightened self-interest that nearly wiped out all the Native Americans ...

/herp
 
2014-02-26 04:26:52 PM  

Feepit: do not consider myself to be the arbiter of how the world should be run, so of course I am not going to answer your question. I am merely pointing out the US is not some benevolent force, as you seem to believe, and halting the North Korean invasion had little to nothing to do with a concern for the welfare of the Korean people.


Heh.  I wasn't asking you to be world arbiter.  I was asking for your opinion, since you obviously have one.   If you didn't have one, you wouldn't keep implying that the U.S. did something wrong, with a vague handwave, but then refuse to specify what it was.  You just rely on "yea america!" soundbites, and a vague handwave.

I strongly suspect you don't know why you believe that.  You heard it somewhere from some liberal arts professor with a ponytail and lennon glasses, and think that saying it makes you sound edgy and enlightened.  But you really don't have any understanding of the historical contexts you are referring to, or what could have been done differently in that time and place.

As an obama voting progressive libby peacenik, I can personally say I think the U.S. and U.N. actions in North korea were the correct ones in a really crappy situation involving multiple nations at that time and place in history.  Do I think the U.S. is perfect? No. (so stop implying I do with stupid soundbite "freedom! democracy! liberator!" rhetoric which makes you sound idiotic.  I NEVER said any such thing.). Do I think the U.S. acted in a more moral and altruistic fashion than most other nations in the years preceding, during, and after WW2, yes.  Did we act perfectly?  No.  But compared to whom?  Europe?  China? Russia?  Japan?  Yes, we were better than those war-mongering dipshiats.  Not perfect, mind you, but better.  I think vague complaints about the U.S. completely out of context of the actions of any other nations at that same time in history is lame.
 
2014-02-26 04:39:15 PM  

Feepit: Why are you pretending the US is some great liberator? We took over that country and forced our form of government on it because we could, not because we felt it was in South Korea's best interest. Even after that so-called liberation, US soldiers still made prolific use of Korean "pleasure women." Yeah ... such hero, so freedom.


It's a Kobayashi Maru scenario.  Do nothing and you are heartless for letting people get slaughtered (see Darfur).  Get involved and you are putting your own interests ahead of all else.  People who cry for the plight of a country like Darfur are often the first damning the US for intervening elsewhere.  It is a no win scenario.
 
2014-02-26 06:16:34 PM  

mjbok: Get involved and you are putting your own interests ahead of all else.


I can't really think of a war that started purely as a relief effort. Can you?

That is true if you actually are putting your own interests ahead of everything else, like taking control of a nation to stop the spread of an ideology you dislike, or as an excuse to funnel money to your favorite war contractors, or to fix prices on limited resources, or to test your new toys, and so on. I suppose you could always argument that a nation is doing it for its own vested interests, but that is usually the case anyway, otherwise they wouldn't be able to rationalize going to war in the first place. In the specific case of South Korea, I just don't see how the welfare of the Korean people was ever a consideration.

ThrobblefootSpectre: Do I think the U.S. is perfect? No.


If you didn't treat patriotism as a religion, you would've taken my comments in the context they were given instead of trying to read some anti-nationalist irrational liberal hate into them. You weasel word your way into making it seem like the US was so wonderful for freeing South Korea from the slavery and abuse of the Japanese, when really that was just a side effect of what took place.
 
2014-02-26 06:30:15 PM  

Feepit: You weasel word your way into making it seem like the US was so wonderful for freeing South Korea from the slavery and abuse of the Japanese, when really that was just a side effect of what took place.


Unadulterated 100% bullshiat.

All I did was point out that we didn't "invade" Korea, then you started making "Freedom! Democracy!" comments (yes, you did) without any factual basis or context whatsoever.  So I politely asked what you felt the U.S. did wrong in that situation, what should have been done differently, and you refused to answer.   Btw - Anyone can go back up and read the thread, so stop blatantly lying about it.
 
2014-02-26 06:36:34 PM  

Feepit: If you didn't treat patriotism as a religion


I treat reason and truth with respect, patriotism didn't enter into a single word I posted.  You are the one who posted derpy "Go America!" posts.  Sorry.
 
2014-02-26 07:04:56 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I treat reason and truth with respect, patriotism didn't enter into a single word I posted. You are the one who posted derpy "Go America!" posts. Sorry.


Oh, I started it, eh? Please. I merely clarified the reason the US repulsed the North Korea invasion, which it would have done without the UN's approval, and you latched onto phrases like "colony" and "puppet regime" as though one is historically worse than the other, and started a giant and unnecessary tantrum.
 
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