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(BBC)   Fukushima radiation is about to reach the West Coast. Be sure to wear lead underwear if you swim in the ocean   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, Fukushima, North American, BBCAmos, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, feathers, cubic metres, Bedford Institute of Oceanography  
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2938 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2014 at 9:38 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-25 09:43:17 AM
Stopped eating Tuna Last year.
 
2014-02-25 09:50:52 AM
Yes, if you're concerned about the environment, please wear lead underwear when you swim in the ocean. It'll help deal with the threat of human overpopulation. You can be part of the solution!

/actually not sure of the solubility of human tissue
 
2014-02-25 09:51:29 AM
Who will win out?  The radiation paranoids who don't understand the concept of parts-per-trillion, safe dosages, and relative danger.  Or the same people who can't convince deniers of basic science on climate change either.

//It's gonna be the first group, because their self-righteousness lasts longer.
 
2014-02-25 09:56:57 AM
Predicted maximum: 27 becquerels per cubic meter
Safe levels for drinking water: 10,000 becquerels per cubic meter

Yeah, that's lead underwear time!

Yes, radioactive pollution is bad.  But this is minute pollution compared to the other daily crap we get.  You get way more radiation flying on a plane.
 
2014-02-25 09:58:07 AM
So when do the Japanese fishermen begin sitting off our coast trying to fish the three-eyed fish delicacy into extinction.
 
2014-02-25 10:04:58 AM
Wow, a whole 10 Bq per cubic meter.

I dunno how I'll survive without being able to perform my morning ritual of jogging half a mile, having a bowl of corn flakes, and  swallowing an entire cubic kilometer of ocean water  every day.  This really puts a cramp in my lifestyle.

// A human body has a count density of 44000 Bq/m3 from potassium alone, if you're curious.
 
2014-02-25 10:26:12 AM
 
2014-02-25 10:45:18 AM
Everything will be fine...

for me as I'm ~ 2000 miles away.
 
2014-02-25 11:04:17 AM
This article is a perfect example of FUD. Lead with a scary headline, ZOMG TRACKING RADIOACTIVE PLUME! Put up a scary picture, ZOMG MANY COLORS!>! Then bury the reality 8 paragraphs in.
 
2014-02-25 11:09:05 AM
We have our own leaks to ignore.

I was going to add a link to the New Mexico thing but then I didn't.
 
2014-02-25 11:13:57 AM
Ok, i just did the math:
assuming:
30 Bq/m^3  is maximum assumed contamination levels
Cs-137 Dose Rate Conversion = 9.6*10^-11 (Sv/hr)/(Bq/m^3)
one Banana's equivalent dose = 9.82*10^-8 Sv or .0982 microSv

So, (9.6*10^-11 (Sv/hr)/(Bq/m^3)) * (30 Bq/m^3) = 2.88*10^-9 Sv/hr or .00288 microSv/hr

and .0982 microSv / .00288 microSv/hr = 34.1 hours you would have to be exposed to the water to have the equivalent dose of one banana.

Scary, isn't it?
 
2014-02-25 11:20:44 AM
Good thing the West Coast is entirely free of coal-based power or they'd be getting a shiatload more radiation than Fukashima's gift.

/and speeding up global warming, but whatever nuclear is scary
//even though they have a nuclear plant right on the San Andreas fault, but whatever at least it's not also in a tsunami zone
///slashies three
 
2014-02-25 11:32:56 AM

FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.


So the real threat of mercury in tuna didn't bother you, but the imagined radiation threat is a concern?
 
2014-02-25 11:58:53 AM
Not really a concern, but just because reactors exploding in Japan isn't a problem to the west coast doesn't mean that nuclear is "safe", either. They still have a no-go zone that will be there for decades and similarly cleaning up the reactors will take decades.

These guys don't do anyone any good, they play into the hands of fools who then proclaim nuclear "safe" like the Fukushima disaster never happened.
 
2014-02-25 12:13:08 PM
engineering.tamu.edu

This should be required watching for anyone before entering into a nuclear debate.

www.thestar.com

pandoraspromise.com
 
2014-02-25 12:13:34 PM

stewbert: FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.

So the real threat of mercury in tuna didn't bother you, but the imagined radiation threat is a concern?


Yes, this is how people actually think.  It's hard to mentally regress yourself enough to empathize with their fears, but it's true!
 
2014-02-25 12:15:32 PM

stewbert: FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.

So the real threat of mercury in tuna didn't bother you, but the imagined radiation threat is a concern?


Took the words right off of my fingertips.
 
2014-02-25 12:22:20 PM

FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.


Look everyone! An idiot!

/you are probably scared of heating water in microwaves too, eh?
 
2014-02-25 01:17:31 PM

tiiger: [engineering.tamu.edu image 850x437]

This should be required watching for anyone before entering into a nuclear debate.

[www.thestar.com image 850x478]

[pandoraspromise.com image 850x478]


Stop it with your empirical evidence!  Nuclear is scary!

stewbert: FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.

So the real threat of mercury in tuna didn't bother you, but the imagined radiation threat is a concern?


In other words:

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-25 02:09:46 PM
Is this the thread where a bunch of Farkers tell me not to worry about something that shouldn't be there in the first place?
 
2014-02-25 02:11:48 PM
Still more than I would normally receive, and it isn't by my choice. I don't appreciate that.
 
2014-02-25 02:24:23 PM
I suppose the rather important question, left unanswered by the article, is this: will it affect anything? If so, how?
 
2014-02-25 02:25:36 PM

relaxitsjustme: Is this the thread where a bunch of Farkers tell me not to worry about something that shouldn't be there in the first place?


I look out my window, and see a cigarette butt in the road, and a piece of paper blowing in the wind.  They shouldn't be there either, but I'm not worried about them, because I'd be an idiot if I did.

Same thing with radiation that don't meet any measurable level of concern.
 
2014-02-25 02:58:10 PM

Khellendros: relaxitsjustme: Is this the thread where a bunch of Farkers tell me not to worry about something that shouldn't be there in the first place?

I look out my window, and see a cigarette butt in the road, and a piece of paper blowing in the wind.  They shouldn't be there either, but I'm not worried about them, because I'd be an idiot if I did.

Same thing with radiation that don't meet any measurable level of concern.


Except that cigarette butt or piece if paper is going to degrade petty fast.  That radiation plume is going to be around long after you and me are both memories.  Not to mention they still haven't even gotten it stopped yet.  So it's like your example but adding 300 tons of cigarette butt and paper trash daily.

You are correct about one thing, I'm not really worried.  I'm just highly pissed off and people posting OH NOES GIFs like it's no big deal are farking retarded.
 
2014-02-25 03:52:55 PM

relaxitsjustme: Except that cigarette butt or piece if paper is going to degrade petty fast. That radiation plume is going to be around long after you and me are both memories. Not to mention they still haven't even gotten it stopped yet. So it's like your example but adding 300 tons of cigarette butt and paper trash daily.

You are correct about one thing, I'm not really worried. I'm just highly pissed off and people posting OH NOES GIFs like it's no big deal are farking retarded.


You missed the point - the levels of radiation we're talking about here are no more worrisome than a single cigarette butt rolling down the street.  If there were 500,000 of them in view of my window, I'd have a problem with it.  But the levels being talked about approaching the coast are negligible to the point of absurdity to even talk about.

Stop letting the word "radiation" be some sort of concern dog whistle.  Yes, there are localities near Fukushima that are of very high concern.  Yes, they need to contain what is going on there and stop the leak.  But the problem they are dealing with currently is highly localized.

If you want to use the analogy I created - there is a giant pile of trash in Japan comprised of many hundreds of tons of rotting garbage that's causing massive local problems, and will take years to seal up, clean, and deal with.  A single cigarette butt from that trash pile reached the U.S. coastline, and is being sensationalized.

The levels they're measuring over the ocean are unimportant.  What's in the air and water is a tiny infinitesimal fraction of what you have in your home if you have granite counter tops or live at 5,000 feet.  It simply doesn't matter.
 
2014-02-25 03:58:37 PM
tiiger: This should be required watching for anyone before entering into a nuclear debate.

Lack of knowledge has never stopped folks here from voicing their woefully-uneducated opinions. That's 13 years of frequenting this site talking.
 
2014-02-25 04:00:54 PM
 
2014-02-25 04:03:05 PM

SumoJeb: FC Exile: Stopped eating Tuna Last year.

Look everyone! An idiot!

/you are probably scared of heating water in microwaves too, eh?


"Instead of all your empty deals; they're just like your farkin' science oven. You know, I read that it takes all of the nutrition out of our food!"
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-02-25 04:16:59 PM

tiiger: [engineering.tamu.edu image 850x437]

This should be required watching for anyone before entering into a nuclear debate.

[www.thestar.com image 850x478]

[pandoraspromise.com image 850x478]


Who's paying you?
 
2014-02-25 04:45:19 PM
 
2014-02-25 04:47:31 PM

Khellendros: relaxitsjustme: Except that cigarette butt or piece if paper is going to degrade petty fast. That radiation plume is going to be around long after you and me are both memories. Not to mention they still haven't even gotten it stopped yet. So it's like your example but adding 300 tons of cigarette butt and paper trash daily.

You are correct about one thing, I'm not really worried. I'm just highly pissed off and people posting OH NOES GIFs like it's no big deal are farking retarded.

You missed the point - the levels of radiation we're talking about here are no more worrisome than a single cigarette butt rolling down the street.  If there were 500,000 of them in view of my window, I'd have a problem with it.  But the levels being talked about approaching the coast are negligible to the point of absurdity to even talk about.

Stop letting the word "radiation" be some sort of concern dog whistle.  Yes, there are localities near Fukushima that are of very high concern.  Yes, they need to contain what is going on there and stop the leak.  But the problem they are dealing with currently is highly localized.

If you want to use the analogy I created - there is a giant pile of trash in Japan comprised of many hundreds of tons of rotting garbage that's causing massive local problems, and will take years to seal up, clean, and deal with.  A single cigarette butt from that trash pile reached the U.S. coastline, and is being sensationalized.

The levels they're measuring over the ocean are unimportant.  What's in the air and water is a tiny infinitesimal fraction of what you have in your home if you have granite counter tops or live at 5,000 feet.  It simply doesn't matter.


FTFA  "These levels are still well below maximum permissible concentrations in drinking water in Canada for caesium-137 of 10,000 becquerels per cubic metre of water - so, it's clearly not an environmental or human-health radiological threat."

Nobody is saying we're all going to die but at what point does it become a concern?  You can use 'the dose makes the poison' to justify all kinds of bad behavior.  The air quality in China doesn't directly affect me but it's still a good idea if China got their act together.  They can track that bad boy all the way across Japan and out into the wide blue Pacific.  Health wise it's probably worse to be standing near a bus when it leaves a stoplight but I'm not going to say it doesn't matter.

Like your cigarette butt analogy.  It doesn't matter but it's still a bad idea to go throwing them on the ground.
 
2014-02-25 04:50:02 PM

DemonEater: Predicted maximum: 27 becquerels per cubic meter
Safe levels for drinking water: 10,000 becquerels per cubic meter

Yeah, that's lead underwear time!

Yes, radioactive pollution is bad.  But this is minute pollution compared to the other daily crap we get.  You get way more radiation flying on a plane.


Given that not many of us are going to drinking sea water, it's even less scary in that regard. I would, however, like to know more about how much C-137 will be absorbed and concentrated by marine organisms. I'm guessing that even the thought of that possibility will mean Pacific fisheries are going to see a drastic falloff in their orders.
 
2014-02-25 04:51:55 PM

relaxitsjustme: Nobody is saying we're all going to die but at what point does it become a concern?


Let's just toss that threshold at a part-per-billion, okay?
 
2014-02-25 05:16:50 PM

relaxitsjustme: Health wise it's probably worse to be standing near a bus when it leaves a stoplight but I'm not going to say it doesn't matter.


See, that's the problem - you're uneducated at how little this is.  We're talking about a grain of salt in a bathtub - SINGLE GRAIN - and worrying about salinity that could dry out your skin and lead to renal failure.

The water contamination near the U.S. coast is roughly 1 becquerel per cubic meter, and could peak out at 27 per cubic meter in 2015 by the most aggressive model.  Drinkable water standards in Canada for cesium contamination is 10,000 becquerel per cubic meter - and that's completely safe.  Now, you need to understand the difference between becquerels and sieverts to talk about human dosing, but you can quickly grasp how silly it is to be concerned with these levels.  (http://www.tsukubascience.com/2011/04/understanding-radiation-becque re ls-and-sieverts/ ).

A more amusing source (XKCD) gave this general chart, which makes a good reference:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-02-25 05:25:00 PM

Khellendros: relaxitsjustme: Health wise it's probably worse to be standing near a bus when it leaves a stoplight but I'm not going to say it doesn't matter.

See, that's the problem - you're uneducated at how little this is.  We're talking about a grain of salt in a bathtub - SINGLE GRAIN - and worrying about salinity that could dry out your skin and lead to renal failure.

The water contamination near the U.S. coast is roughly 1 becquerel per cubic meter, and could peak out at 27 per cubic meter in 2015 by the most aggressive model.  Drinkable water standards in Canada for cesium contamination is 10,000 becquerel per cubic meter - and that's completely safe.  Now, you need to understand the difference between becquerels and sieverts to talk about human dosing, but you can quickly grasp how silly it is to be concerned with these levels.  (http://www.tsukubascience.com/2011/04/understanding-radiation-becque re ls-and-sieverts/ ).

A more amusing source (XKCD) gave this general chart, which makes a good reference:

[imgs.xkcd.com image 850x999]


I conceed.  Go ahead Japan and keep the radiation plume a' coming.  It doesn't matter
 
2014-02-25 05:26:33 PM

relaxitsjustme: Nobody is saying we're all going to die but at what point does it become a concern?


Look, using the Glenn Beck "I'm just asking questions" bullshiat doesn't really work when your answer is literally in the previous sentence you quoted.

It's a concern when food products you're consuming contain the equivalent of 10 kBq times the daily dose of water (a couple liters).  Since the concentration we're talking about is more like 10 Bq... are you, personally, by yourself, eating 1.5 tonnes of fish per day?  Because that's the point at which this becomes a concern.
 
2014-02-25 05:50:50 PM

relaxitsjustme: I conceed. Go ahead Japan and keep the radiation plume a' coming. It doesn't matter


So instead of educating yourself, you ignore where I said it was a issue that needed correction - just not in the U.S - and made a snarky response that ignored the actual problem.

Look at what you did in this thread:  This is a perfect demonstration of science ignorance in the public.  This is why we have legislators that focus on the trivial and meaningless, and not on issues of concrete, scientific concern.  They have to appeal to 100 million people like you, making big speeches and platitudes because of buzzwords and dog whistles.

Get educated on something before forming an opinion.
 
2014-02-25 07:04:55 PM

Jim_Callahan: Wow, a whole 10 Bq per cubic meter.

I dunno how I'll survive without being able to perform my morning ritual of jogging half a mile, having a bowl of corn flakes, and  swallowing an entire cubic kilometer of ocean water  every day.  This really puts a cramp in my lifestyle.

// A human body has a count density of 44000 Bq/m3 from potassium alone, if you're curious.


So surfing won't cause this?
mlkshk.com
/*scuffs heal*  kinda disappointed
 
2014-02-25 07:42:04 PM

Khellendros: relaxitsjustme: Health wise it's probably worse to be standing near a bus when it leaves a stoplight but I'm not going to say it doesn't matter.

See, that's the problem - you're uneducated at how little this is.  We're talking about a grain of salt in a bathtub - SINGLE GRAIN - and worrying about salinity that could dry out your skin and lead to renal failure.

The water contamination near the U.S. coast is roughly 1 becquerel per cubic meter, and could peak out at 27 per cubic meter in 2015 by the most aggressive model.  Drinkable water standards in Canada for cesium contamination is 10,000 becquerel per cubic meter - and that's completely safe.  Now, you need to understand the difference between becquerels and sieverts to talk about human dosing, but you can quickly grasp how silly it is to be concerned with these levels.  (http://www.tsukubascience.com/2011/04/understanding-radiation-becque re ls-and-sieverts/ ).

A more amusing source (XKCD) gave this general chart, which makes a good reference:

[imgs.xkcd.com image 850x999]


Thanks for sharing that. It'll be useful around here.
 
2014-02-25 08:32:15 PM
Oh. My. God. A wave of radiation is about to hit the West Coast equal to  one five hundredthsof what you get for just standing outside in Denver, CO.

EVERYBODY MUTHAFARKIN PANIC.
 
2014-02-25 08:40:28 PM

StoPPeRmobile: tiiger: [engineering.tamu.edu image 850x437]

This should be required watching for anyone before entering into a nuclear debate.

[www.thestar.com image 850x478]

[pandoraspromise.com image 850x478]

Who's paying you?


No one yet.  Do you think I can get money for advocating reason and scientific thinking over blind emotional panic at the word 'nuclear'?
 
2014-02-25 09:11:01 PM

that bosnian sniper: Oh. My. God. A wave of radiation is about to hit the West Coast equal to  one five hundredthsof what you get for just standing outside in Denver, CO.

EVERYBODY MUTHAFARKIN PANIC.


Yeah, but that radiation is gamma, this is alpha and beta, which are different because reasons.
 
2014-02-25 10:56:48 PM
I dunno, didn't work out too well for Marie Curie...
 
2014-02-25 11:00:19 PM

Eskaminagaga: Ok, i just did the math:
assuming:
30 Bq/m^3  is maximum assumed contamination levels
Cs-137 Dose Rate Conversion = 9.6*10^-11 (Sv/hr)/(Bq/m^3)
one Banana's equivalent dose = 9.82*10^-8 Sv or .0982 microSv

So, (9.6*10^-11 (Sv/hr)/(Bq/m^3)) * (30 Bq/m^3) = 2.88*10^-9 Sv/hr or .00288 microSv/hr

and .0982 microSv / .00288 microSv/hr = 34.1 hours you would have to be exposed to the water to have the equivalent dose of one banana.

Scary, isn't it?



minionslovebananas.com
 
2014-02-26 07:36:14 AM
Oh, puh-leeze. It's a joke. (Not my joke.)

If you want something terrifying to worry about, try plastic.

I watched part of a documentary on the Fukushima disaster called "Second Wave" this week.

Hundreds of millions of tons of stuff got washed away during the tsunami--houses, cars, people, fishing boats and above all, plastic.

Plastic takes centuries to die, if not longer. Archaeologists will be digging the stuff up. It will prove that the Earth was once inhabitable should aliens ever arrive in millions of years to come.

But it does break up. Before it breaks up it kills fish, sea mammals and birds by filling their stomachs and poisoning them. It also releases toxins. And then it gets smaller and smaller, moving down the food chain until it is the size of plankton. Everything in the sea eats it eventually, and so do seafood lovers.

It is now turning up in BC, the Pacific Northwest and Hawaii. Only 1% of it has arrived and the coast is already strewn for hundreds of miles with everything a small Japanese town (and hundreds of other towns) used to own.

But the plastic is most of it and the worst of it. It really does have the potential to kill or harm us all by turning male fish into females or hermaphrodites, by mining the food web from above and below and by poisoning us all from plankton to humans.

You can't dump anything. The world is a closed system. What you throw away comes back in your water, food and air.

Lead from Chinese soil and radiation from Japanese reactors are small potatoes to plastic.

And the hundreds of millions of tons of Japanese junk is the tip of the iceberg (a very small tip even).
 
2014-02-26 07:48:08 AM
OK, maybe it was just 100 million or 150 million tons. So?

It's not like we are any more likely to stop making plastic than we are to stop making smog or releasing millions of years of stored greenhouse gases, is it?
 
2014-02-26 07:55:20 AM
Oh, lovely. Pandora's box.

The thing is, that hope was NOT found at the bottom of Pandora's box. It was LEFT there. She unleashed all of the evils of the world except for one. She snapped the lid shut in time to trap HOPE.

Hope was in the box of evils for a reason. The Ancient Greeks were a philosophical lot and they regarded hope as an evil--it is what keeps you going although all is misery. It drags out the misery until the bitter dregs.

This is about par for the course in education and the advertising industry.

Another of my pet peeves is that so many people forget that King Canute was not stupid enough to think he could hold back the waves and tides of the sea. He was teaching his flattering courtiers a lesson. He wanted to show them he was not fooled by their flattery and that he was aware of the limitations of human and royal power.

And while I'm venting, I must add that to beg the question does not mean to raise the question. Begging the question is a logical fallacy which consists of using the conclusion of an argument as one of its premises or assumptions or else using another premise or assumption that needs proof as much as the conclusion of that argument.

These three errors account for a vast part of human error and nonsense.

Without them, we'd wise up and religion, politics and industry would have to change or perish.
 
2014-02-26 02:48:12 PM

Khellendros: relaxitsjustme: I conceed. Go ahead Japan and keep the radiation plume a' coming. It doesn't matter

So instead of educating yourself, you ignore where I said it was a issue that needed correction - just not in the U.S - and made a snarky response that ignored the actual problem.

Look at what you did in this thread:  This is a perfect demonstration of science ignorance in the public.  This is why we have legislators that focus on the trivial and meaningless, and not on issues of concrete, scientific concern.  They have to appeal to 100 million people like you, making big speeches and platitudes because of buzzwords and dog whistles.

Get educated on something before forming an opinion.


Whatever. I'm not going to waste my time debating somebody who is just going to snip my responses and only address the parts that are convienent to your argument.
 
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