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(New York Daily News)   Another cruise in the Caribbean, another case of people mass vomiting by the diarrhea-inducing norovirus. Third in a month   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Caribbean, Holland America, stool tests, norovirus, Princess Cruises  
•       •       •

7261 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2014 at 3:33 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-24 05:02:25 PM  

Jument: tripleseven: fonebone77: Born_Again_Bavarian: Protip:  Don't go on a cruise during cold/flu/explosive diahrrea season (aka "winter")
Pro-protip:  Just don't go on a cruise (aka "McVacation")

Winter is the best time.  The norovirus thing can happen anytime.  In the winter you have less nasty children sneezing into their hands and touching every thing.

I think the best time to travel if you want to avoid families is September.

It's the first month of school, barely ANYONE takes vacation first month of school with their family.


GF and I always take the Caribbean vacations in Sept.  Water is warm, and little to no familes.

Yeah but September isn't a bad month in the US. There's nothing to take a break from. February, on the other hand, is mostly shiat and a break feels great.

/thinking about Mexico next week, well-reviewed all-inclusive for 2 for $1700 including air fees (on points though) for 5 nights


Which one?  The wife and I just booked one for the first week in April.  Staying just south of Cancun.  I have three requirements:
1) No kids; that's part of why we are leaving in the first place
2) You better have Havana Club rum, and better beer than farking Corona
3) 24 hour room service.  Nothing better than beer and huevos rancheros at 3 a.m. after sexy time

/ A beach and a nice pool are good too, I guess
 
2014-02-24 05:02:45 PM  

sovietski: suebhoney: And people wonder why I'm not into taking a cruise...

I understand that the bulk percentage of cruises, this doesn't happen, but meh, why take a chance?

I'm not a fan of the open water, hence no cruise for me. I'm not scared of much, but I'm terrified at the thought of drowning.

Or being eaten by a shark.

See also: SS Andrea Doria


lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-02-24 05:03:08 PM  
What is it about cruises that prevents people from washing their hands after they take a shiat?
 
2014-02-24 05:04:10 PM  

CygnusDarius: Truth be told, I think the chances of crappy food (in more ways than one) is better than sitting at home staring at a box, only to sleep in a box, wake up and leave you living box, drive a box on wheels, work on a corporate box, and spend your days in boxes until the day you're in one forever.

I mean, if you don't want to run any risks, I suggest vegetative state. Every day we flip the coin: Paper or plastic; donut & coffee, or just the donut; ask Wendy the receptionist out on a date, or just pass by at her again, hoping she'll notice.
People die in their homes every day, and not just suicide, robbery, or assault. You might fall. trip and break your neck entering/during/after you take a shower. You might choke on food and die, you might get poisoned, you might fall on a flight of stairs, you might over-medicate or under-medicate yourself. Your dog might punch you to death; the ceiling might fall over your head; someone might hit you with a ball and you'll die...


Are you in the marketing biz for cruises? Good stuff.
 
2014-02-24 05:06:39 PM  

under a mountain: tripleseven: fonebone77: Born_Again_Bavarian: Protip:  Don't go on a cruise during cold/flu/explosive diahrrea season (aka "winter")
Pro-protip:  Just don't go on a cruise (aka "McVacation")

Winter is the best time.  The norovirus thing can happen anytime.  In the winter you have less nasty children sneezing into their hands and touching every thing.

I think the best time to travel if you want to avoid families is September.

It's the first month of school, barely ANYONE takes vacation first month of school with their family.


GF and I always take the Caribbean vacations in Sept.  Water is warm, and little to no familes.

You are risking Huricane Season tho.

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.


True, we did have to bag a trip to Bermuda because of a hurricane, we just really quickly switched it to Aruba. Aruba is not really in the hurricane belt.

However nasty weather can happen anytime.

Aruba in sept is pretty awesome. It is almost deserted.
We've been three times.
 
2014-02-24 05:07:38 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: I kinda want to go on one of these sick cruises ever since I had my DNA sequenced and I found out I'm resistant to Norovirus. I could rule the boat as a pirate king! Sure my subjects would be too sick to serve me but it could be a good time until they turn on me and try to make a cure out of my blood/body parts.


In the land of the poop cruise the man who doesn't poop is king.

Or something ike that.
 
2014-02-24 05:10:45 PM  
under a mountain:

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.

I always thought those looked pretty sweet too, but man are they pricey.  My in-laws are doing the long one this fall,and it is around $11K per person, and I don't think that includes airfare.
 
2014-02-24 05:14:59 PM  

Big 900: under a mountain:

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.

I always thought those looked pretty sweet too, but man are they pricey.  My in-laws are doing the long one this fall,and it is around $11K per person, and I don't think that includes airfare.


Yeah my guess it's full of 55+ crowd.
 
2014-02-24 05:24:06 PM  

CygnusDarius: Truth be told, I think the chances of crappy food (in more ways than one) is better than sitting at home staring at a box, only to sleep in a box, wake up and leave you living box, drive a box on wheels, work on a corporate box, and spend your days in boxes until the day you're in one forever.


Yeah, so go have diarrhoea on a big floating box! Now, *that's* living.

(But if someone is in the kind of facility where spending time outside isn't an option, he probably doesn't get a chance to go on cruises anyway.)
 
2014-02-24 05:27:05 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: How is it the Navy can manage without everybody taking a ride on the poop deck?  Is it because their poop chutes are full of seamen?


numbers dude numbers! in the Navy you don't board thousands of new people every farkin week! ... and people do get sick on board naval ships. Just that you don't read about it on CNN.
 
2014-02-24 05:28:54 PM  

under a mountain: Big 900: under a mountain:

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.

I always thought those looked pretty sweet too, but man are they pricey.  My in-laws are doing the long one this fall,and it is around $11K per person, and I don't think that includes airfare.

Yeah my guess it's full of 55+ crowd.


My mom and brothers did one in China about 9 years ago. It wasn't as elderly as you would expect.
 
2014-02-24 05:28:54 PM  

cgraves67: Smeggy Smurf: How is it the Navy can manage without everybody taking a ride on the poop deck?  Is it because their poop chutes are full of seamen?

That is an interesting question, since sailors will disembark and explore rather unsavory destinations, you would think they would be more likely to pick up strange diseases and spread them around a ship.

However, I think the answer lies not in the passengers, but in the poorly paid crews on cruise ships. They may feel ill, but they better come in to work or they miss 2 weeks of pay and probably get fired.




The Navy also keeps their ships clean by holding daily cleaning, weekly field days, and regular inspections of the whole ship. If a space fails an imspection it is cleaned until it passes.
 
2014-02-24 05:29:36 PM  
kinda like this explanation . . . http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/01/30/royal-caribbean-norovirus-nonsens e /


\\ not I, said the guy who doesn't want to go
 
2014-02-24 05:30:48 PM  
with all the old people on cruises I can't believe we dont get one or two dying every time this happens.
 
2014-02-24 05:32:12 PM  
People should know better than to book a cruise on a ship called Sovereign of Disease
 
2014-02-24 05:32:51 PM  

Optimus Primate: I was in the Navy for 7 years...the idea of going on a cruise seems unpleasant, even without having to work.

These days, with the Norovirus thing, the deal is now sealed. The cool thing is that the wife has stopped even suggesting it. Win!


Retired Navy here. I've always wondered how carriers don't get norovirus outbreaks with 5-6,000 people crammed into common berthing areas.

One deployment I made almost the whole ship (1,500 crew) got the trots from eating on liberty in Thailand, the CO secured ships work and everything.
 
2014-02-24 05:40:28 PM  

under a mountain: Big 900: under a mountain:

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.

I always thought those looked pretty sweet too, but man are they pricey.  My in-laws are doing the long one this fall,and it is around $11K per person, and I don't think that includes airfare.

Yeah my guess it's full of 55+ crowd.


I see it as a non-threatening way for old folks to get a very rough approximation of backpacking through Europe; which is right up my in-law's alley.  His comments on a Baltic Sea cruise they took a few years ago:  "With the cruise ship it's like we got to take tours of all of these neat cities every day, but never had to leave America. It was great!"

Not my cup of tea, but it's their money, so good for them.
 
2014-02-24 05:51:19 PM  
Having just recovered from a nasty bout with Norovirus myself ... I am NOT getting a kick out of these replies.

I don't recall ever before having been as miserably sick as I was with this hell-spawned virus.  I'm pretty hardy but this thing just knocked me on my ass for a week.  I lost 10 pounds in 5 days.

Nasty, nasty stuff ...

/ was going to post a picture
// NEVER GIS "puke"
 
2014-02-24 05:56:46 PM  
just promote cruises as weight-loss vacations!!
 
2014-02-24 05:57:11 PM  
That's what happens when you crew these ships with uncivilized primates from the third world.
 
2014-02-24 06:21:19 PM  
I just don't see going on a cruise. I've worked on the docks my whole life, I don't need to go on another ship unless I'm the one getting paid. What's there to do but drink and eat? What's there to see? I'd walk all around it then say, OK now what? Shows or Clubs, I could care less. Not a Beach or Pool person anymore at my age so that's out. Nah, I'll stick to Vegas 2X a year.
 
2014-02-24 06:33:35 PM  

TV's Vinnie: That's what happens when you crew these ships with uncivilized primates from the third world.


Alabama is at least second world, at best.
 
2014-02-24 06:35:18 PM  

whynotisright: radarlove: Now is not the time to discuss hygiene control.

Please think of the victims and their families.

Seriously.  I just got back from a Caribbean cruise that had multiple handwashing and hand sanitation stations (in addition to the bathrooms) in all of the common areas.  No problems at all.


This and try not to touch most things in the public areas, never hit the Buffet line and use the higher end lines like Holland America.... wait what? Still takes Holland America because they're known for their food.

/know they're owned by Carnival
//loves to take cruises
 
2014-02-24 06:37:02 PM  

swannie: I did the math a few months ago for Norovirus outbreaks in 2013.  I don't recall the exact number, but there were something like 1300 cases of norovirus on cruise ships, and around 20 million norovirus cases elsewhere.  If you do the math on that it works out to .006% of case occur on cruise ships.

Apparently poop really does sell advertising on news sites, because this doesn't seem like news to me...

Information sources if anyone would like to do the math I'm to lazy to re-do:
http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/multimedia.html
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm


More pertinent would be how what percentage of cruises have mass outbreaks.
 
2014-02-24 06:49:26 PM  
I LOVE cruises, but until they get this Norovirus shiat under control - NOPE.  I had Norovirus once and it was the worst experience of my life on every level: embarrassment, physical pain, and just plain weakness to a degree I couldn't even handle getting to the bathroom.  I had Norovirus once:

img839.imageshack.us
 
2014-02-24 07:00:59 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: How is it the Navy can manage without everybody taking a ride on the poop deck?  Is it because their poop chutes are full of seamen?


It's not gay when underway.
 
2014-02-24 07:06:18 PM  

Jument: The Slush: It amazes me that people still go on cruises.  Didn't this sh*t start happening regularly more than a decade ago?  Then again, I suppose we don't hear about all the cruises without issues.

It would be interesting to know if this is happening more or if we're just hearing about it more because poop sells news.

Either way, all of these stories have cured me of ever wanting to go on a cruise.


It is when the line claims they can clean the 25000 person vessel and have it back at sea in under 48 hours that bothers me.
 
2014-02-24 07:18:00 PM  

cgraves67: under a mountain: Big 900: under a mountain:

I  might give one of those Viking River cruieses in Europe a shot...doesn't look like they cram too many people on those.

I always thought those looked pretty sweet too, but man are they pricey.  My in-laws are doing the long one this fall,and it is around $11K per person, and I don't think that includes airfare.

Yeah my guess it's full of 55+ crowd.

My mom and brothers did one in China about 9 years ago. It wasn't as elderly as you would expect.



I have a friend who did one in Russia with his wife last year... about $6k each, I think it was.  There were families aboard.  Ted Turner and his family were on the same boat.
 
2014-02-24 07:37:59 PM  

limeyfellow: It is when the line claims they can clean the 25000 person vessel and have it back at sea in under 48 hours that bothers me.


Me thinks you're trying to slip a zero in on us.
 
2014-02-24 07:39:10 PM  

Medic Zero: swannie: I did the math a few months ago for Norovirus outbreaks in 2013.  I don't recall the exact number, but there were something like 1300 cases of norovirus on cruise ships, and around 20 million norovirus cases elsewhere.  If you do the math on that it works out to .006% of case occur on cruise ships.

Apparently poop really does sell advertising on news sites, because this doesn't seem like news to me...

Information sources if anyone would like to do the math I'm to lazy to re-do:
http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/multimedia.html
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm

More pertinent would be how what percentage of cruises have mass outbreaks.


More difficult to calculate because you'd need to know how many ships and how many itineraries there are.  But, we can take a whack at it.  Let's assume that the typical itinerary is 1 week (7 days), and per someone else in the thread above mentioned 300 active cruise ships (I think that number is low, but let's go with it).  So, that means there are 15,600 "cruises" in a year.  There were 9 sailing in 2013 that were affected by norovirus (okay 8 by norovirus and 1 by E. coli, but when you're shatting your brains out it's all the same), so that's ... .057% or cruises affected.

2012 seemed like a worse year with 16 affected sailings, for about 0.1% of all sailing.

... either way it doesn't seem newsworthy.
 
2014-02-24 08:14:38 PM  
Maybe we should lower the amount of fecal matter allowed in the potable water.
 
2014-02-24 08:25:36 PM  

Bermuda59: cgraves67: Smeggy Smurf: How is it the Navy can manage without everybody taking a ride on the poop deck?  Is it because their poop chutes are full of seamen?

That is an interesting question, since sailors will disembark and explore rather unsavory destinations, you would think they would be more likely to pick up strange diseases and spread them around a ship.

However, I think the answer lies not in the passengers, but in the poorly paid crews on cruise ships. They may feel ill, but they better come in to work or they miss 2 weeks of pay and probably get fired.

The Navy also keeps their ships clean by holding daily cleaning, weekly field days, and regular inspections of the whole ship. If a space fails an imspection it is cleaned until it passes.


I grew up in the military, inspections are only all too well understood fully.  Getting chased by security for throwing water balloons at the FOD line was all in a summer's day.  (Yes I was a terrible child)

There is nothing that says the cruise lines cannot put in at least half the effort the Navy does.  Anybody who has ever had the norovirus (raise your hand and poop your pants for the 12th time this hour) will put up with the extra effort to keep the place clean.
 
2014-02-24 08:44:56 PM  
Which explains why 4-day Caribbean cruises are selling for $200.
 
2014-02-24 08:52:43 PM  
Cruise ships are heavily infested with the 40+ year old crowd.

YUCK.

Recommend staying ashore.
 
2014-02-24 08:54:54 PM  
I have a hard time believing anyone young enough to throw water balloons was anywhere near a FOD line.
 
2014-02-24 08:59:52 PM  
 
2014-02-24 09:08:21 PM  

yakmans_dad: TheNewJesus: I never understood the appeal of cruises.

We've always had a fantastic time. Baltic. Alaska.

The appeal is that they're to places we weren't likely to drive to. Or through.

And, if you shop carefully, they're cheaper than the equivalent in hotels and restaurants.


Any suggestions for an Alaskan cruise. I really want to get up there for a vacation, but as a  city boy I really don't have any "Real" outdoor experience. Normally I wouldn't even consider a vacation cruise except for the above reason. Although being able to relax for a day on the way up/back might be appealing.
 
2014-02-24 09:24:27 PM  

studebaker hoch: Cruise ships are heavily infested with the 40+ year old crowd.

YUCK.


Ow.

/40.
 
2014-02-24 09:25:40 PM  

studebaker hoch: I have a hard time believing anyone young enough to throw water balloons was anywhere near a FOD line.


Came here to post this, etc.
 
2014-02-24 09:49:01 PM  
Fuggin Bizzy

Ow.

/40


JK.  Someone upthread made a comment about the over-55 crowd and I felt the same.

/never trust anyone over 22
 
2014-02-24 10:09:24 PM  

whynotisright: radarlove: Now is not the time to discuss hygiene control.

Please think of the victims and their families.

Seriously.  I just got back from a Caribbean cruise that had multiple handwashing and hand sanitation stations (in addition to the bathrooms) in all of the common areas.  No problems at all.


Same here.  New boat from Norwegian.  I have never seen so many sinks and hand sanitizer dispensers in my life.  The buffet had probably two dozen sinks and a half dozen alcohol hand sanitizers by itself. That said, kids are still disgusting little germ factories that will run out of a bathroom without washing because they're afraid of missing the last damn chicken finger.

I think part of it is that when you go motel 6 at sea, you are rolling the dice.  Saying that, I wouldn't automatically turn down a 3 day booze cruise on a Carnival ship either, just know that it might require a little extra hand washing to avoid catching something from some sick shipmate.  And drinking more alcohol to kill anything I might get.  Probably a lot more alcohol to be safe.

/and avoiding any foods that are kid friendly like the damn chicken fingers.
 
2014-02-24 10:14:13 PM  

Rapmaster2000: The PooooopDuuuung Boooooat!  Exciting and newwwwwwwwwwwww!


/ftfm
 
2014-02-24 10:15:03 PM  

Gleeman: Optimus Primate: I was in the Navy for 7 years...the idea of going on a cruise seems unpleasant, even without having to work.

These days, with the Norovirus thing, the deal is now sealed. The cool thing is that the wife has stopped even suggesting it. Win!

Retired Navy here. I've always wondered how carriers don't get norovirus outbreaks with 5-6,000 people crammed into common berthing areas.

One deployment I made almost the whole ship (1,500 crew) got the trots from eating on liberty in Thailand, the CO secured ships work and everything.


Military medicine, when not involved in trauma med innovations, is pretty much devoted to monitoring a relatively homogeneous population (18-45) of healthy individuals in close contact (ships/boats/barracks).  Sick call? More than a few individuals with same symptoms?  Shiat's run down and suppressed ASAP.  Your CO knew the drill.
 
2014-02-24 10:25:13 PM  
i was section hiking the appalachian trail back in May of last year and surrounded by through hikers who talked about an awful outbreak of norovirus people got from some pizzeria/hiker hostel, so i'm getting a kick out of this...

/not all hiker hostels are equal...
//some are downright nasty
 
2014-02-24 10:49:22 PM  

escherblacksmith: kinda like this explanation . . . http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/01/30/royal-caribbean-norovirus-nonsens e /


\\ not I, said the guy who doesn't want to go


While I can't really fault his analysis of the way the virus is spread, his comments on the labor economics are self contradictory and really miss the point of why employees value the jobs at all. One second he's calling the jobs horrible, unsafe, pay that's terrible and conditions Americans wouldn't work in but then a few paragraphs later he says that if an employee complains, they risk losing a highly valued job.  Which is it? shiatty slave labor jobs or a highly valued job?  Yes, the conditions aren't the best.  I'd hate the space issues and dealing with people all day, but consider the alternatives for each employee.  A lot of them come from desperately poor places where their junk salary by American standards can support their entire families.  If I could work a job and support my parents, grandparents, spouse, and kids, and it got me into cleaner safer conditions than i had at home, I'd be an idiot to pass it up.

I work a pretty good middle class job and I could see scenarios where a steady job on a cruise ship would be a good option (assuming you get 3 hots, a cot and a little spending money).
 
2014-02-24 11:03:39 PM  

Skunkwolf: wildcardjack: siva: Norovirus transmission is fecal-oral.  That means either it's in the food, in pools, or people aren't washing their hands properly.  Regardless, it is particularly gross that fecal germs are spread that widely on cruises.

Probably some equivalent to a Typhoid Mary, a person who harbors and spreads a disease but doesn't get sick. Just need to cross reference the shore crew, ship crew and passengers to see if there's been a common person that isn't also super common to healthy cruises.

3rd world crew.

You have to tell them how to properly sit on a western toilet. Otherwise they will squat on it, with feet on either side of the bowl. The bowl shatters after this abuse, and cuts the femoral artery, bleeding them out in seconds. You also have to tell them to wash their hands after using the toilet, repeatedly, a watch.


Hahah. I lol'd.
 
2014-02-24 11:04:45 PM  
Have pollen allergies?  Problems using the toilet in public?  Constipation?   Well we have the cure for you, with our cruise you can solve many problems at once for a small fixed fee and see all the sights and smells of the Caribbean!
 
2014-02-24 11:19:31 PM  

Jument: The Slush: It amazes me that people still go on cruises.  Didn't this sh*t start happening regularly more than a decade ago?  Then again, I suppose we don't hear about all the cruises without issues.

It would be interesting to know if this is happening more or if we're just hearing about it more because poop sells news.

Either way, all of these stories have cured me of ever wanting to go on a cruise.


I used to work with cruise ship passengers/crew in Alaska, and I never heard of a mass illness like these recent ones. I mean, there were always issues, fires on board, one ran aground one time, but the main thing I took away from the experience was that overall, the crew members were by far the shadiest group of people I have ever dealt with. The assaults and thefts are the things that happen a lot that we never hear about, based on purely anecdotal evidence (but consistent anecdotes, over several seasons).
 
2014-02-25 12:06:08 AM  

Branniganslaw: yakmans_dad: TheNewJesus: I never understood the appeal of cruises.

We've always had a fantastic time. Baltic. Alaska.

The appeal is that they're to places we weren't likely to drive to. Or through.

And, if you shop carefully, they're cheaper than the equivalent in hotels and restaurants.

Any suggestions for an Alaskan cruise. I really want to get up there for a vacation, but as a  city boy I really don't have any "Real" outdoor experience. Normally I wouldn't even consider a vacation cruise except for the above reason. Although being able to relax for a day on the way up/back might be appealing.


The ultimate Alaskan cruise package is to sail from Seattle up the Inland Passage to Seward.  Then drive a rental to Anchorage.  From there take one of the train tours through the center of the state.  Finish up the train ride in Fairbanks.  There you rent a motorhome and drive the Alcan Highway back to the US.  

There are reverse packages that go the opposite direction.  Drive to Fairbanks, train, boat back to Seattle.  It's a 4-5 week trip of nothing but beauty and things you'll never see again.
 
2014-02-25 02:22:16 AM  
The inside passage is a lot of fun.

But don't take our word for it, ask your mom.
 
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