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(The Daily Beast)   If you lined up 100 married couples and asked them if their florist "affirmed" their wedding, most wouldn't even know what the word meant   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 148
    More: Obvious, conservative Christians, Governor Jan Brewer, opponents of same-sex marriage, Bible Teach, freedom of religions  
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3118 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Feb 2014 at 7:20 AM (7 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-24 07:10:01 AM
Rather than protecting the conscience rights of Christians, this looks a lot more like randomly applying religious belief in a way that discriminates against and marginalizes one group of people, while turning a blind eye to another group.

Yes.  That's the same thing everyone has been saying for years.
 
2014-02-24 07:24:54 AM
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd have to say that a florist 'affirming' your wedding would mean ... that their bank thought the check you gave as a deposit was good enough, big enough, and doggone it, they didn't already have someone scheduled for that time.
 
2014-02-24 07:31:29 AM
As a capitalist, I see a great money-making business in AZ's future.
 
2014-02-24 07:32:13 AM
And by the way, if you have moral objections to catering or arranging flowers for gay weddings, I would sincerely hope you would also have moral objections to doing so for fundraisers by politicians trying to pander to you by legalizing your bigotry - because you know those bastards are breaking more than a few of the Big 10, and not one of the Little 613.
 
2014-02-24 07:32:42 AM
I see that Professor Ric Romero is writing for the Beast, now.
i18.photobucket.com
Thanks, Prof!!
 
2014-02-24 07:40:34 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-24 07:44:58 AM
I say let them do it, but make them prominently display a sign that says "WE DON'T SERVE GAYS" in their windows and all advertising.

Won't be long before they not only lose the business of the people they're turning away, but also the business of everybody who doesn't want to support bigotry.
 
2014-02-24 07:46:06 AM
Does that dude's shirt really say Fear the Fork?
 
2014-02-24 07:50:15 AM
Area man passionate defender of what he imagines the Bible to say.
 
2014-02-24 07:51:22 AM
That whole thing could have been reduced to half a headline.

Conservative Christians Selectively Apply Biblical Teachings
 
2014-02-24 07:51:23 AM

ProdigalSigh: Does that dude's shirt really say Fear the Fork?


Hey, it's hard to eat lobster or shrimp without a lobster or shrimp fork.
 
2014-02-24 07:52:08 AM
As an atheist, it's nice to hear from the non batshiat insane Christians from time to time.
 
2014-02-24 07:52:16 AM
There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?

It was funny to watch he try to float between talking points, only to give up and go with the old 'big government, bad!' talking point in the end.  She was doing everything she could talking point wise to avoid admitting that yes, the law was designed so that you could hide behind your faith as a reason to deny services to gay people.
 
2014-02-24 07:52:21 AM
So everything is NOT coming up roses
 
2014-02-24 07:53:00 AM

kittyhas1000legs: Conservative Christians Selectively Apply Biblical Teachings


This is pointed out so often that it's become tedious, yet it can't be pointed out often enough. . . .
 
2014-02-24 07:55:00 AM

MrBallou: I say let them do it, but make them prominently display a sign that says "WE DON'T SERVE GAYS" in their windows and all advertising.

Won't be long before they not only lose the business of the people they're turning away, but also the business of everybody who doesn't want to support bigotry.


The people pushing this legislation will agree to that when shrimps learn to whistle. The only people who are ever willing to stand behind this shiat are occasional fanatic loons who don't mind going out of business to prove their "point".
 
2014-02-24 07:55:06 AM
Doesn't banning gay marriage impinge on the religious freedom of churches (like the United Church of Christ) who openly support gay marriage? (And some of whose member churches have been performing gay marriage for decades)?

Then again, I suspect those folks don't count as 'christian' in these people's eyes, while they then go on to their prosperity gospel churches.
 
2014-02-24 07:55:57 AM

Antimatter: There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?

It was funny to watch he try to float between talking points, only to give up and go with the old 'big government, bad!' talking point in the end.  She was doing everything she could talking point wise to avoid admitting that yes, the law was designed so that you could hide behind your faith as a reason to deny services to gay people.


If the Jewish caterer supplies pork to anyone, then the argument could be made that they should supply it to everyone. However, as seems more likely, they probably don't stock or supply pork at all. Should I be able to sue my corner deli because they don't stock the sort of cereal I like?
 
2014-02-24 07:57:16 AM

Antimatter: There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?

It was funny to watch he try to float between talking points, only to give up and go with the old 'big government, bad!' talking point in the end.  She was doing everything she could talking point wise to avoid admitting that yes, the law was designed so that you could hide behind your faith as a reason to deny services to gay people.


I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.
 
2014-02-24 07:58:38 AM

LesterB: Antimatter: There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?

It was funny to watch he try to float between talking points, only to give up and go with the old 'big government, bad!' talking point in the end.  She was doing everything she could talking point wise to avoid admitting that yes, the law was designed so that you could hide behind your faith as a reason to deny services to gay people.

If the Jewish caterer supplies pork to anyone, then the argument could be made that they should supply it to everyone. However, as seems more likely, they probably don't stock or supply pork at all. Should I be able to sue my corner deli because they don't stock the sort of cereal I like?


Oh, FFS - the whole argument is bullshiat - like the claim that churches will be forced to conduct gay weddings.
 
2014-02-24 07:58:44 AM

Felgraf: Doesn't banning gay marriage impinge on the religious freedom of churches


It's more than that - banning gay marriage impinges on the religious freedom of gay Christians.

The Bible, Exodus 20:14 "Thou shalt not commit adultery." i.e. thou shalt not have sex outside of wedlock.
Fundamentalists: "Gay can't get married!"
Gay Christians: "Then how are we supposed to avoid that out-ot-wedlock situation?"
 
2014-02-24 08:04:43 AM

ProdigalSigh: Does that dude's shirt really say Fear the Fork?


Yeah, that's one of the Arizona State University's mottos. This was probably on campus, or somewhere near it.
 
2014-02-24 08:05:08 AM
Dear Conservative, Evangelical GOPers,

I will believe the value of your convictions when you ban seafood, bbq, tattoo parlors, ban divorce, arrest adulterers and write regulation banning farmers from harvesting 100% of the crops.

Until then, we see you for what you are.
 
2014-02-24 08:05:40 AM

Karac: Felgraf: Doesn't banning gay marriage impinge on the religious freedom of churches

It's more than that - banning gay marriage impinges on the religious freedom of gay Christians.

The Bible, Exodus 20:14 "Thou shalt not commit adultery." i.e. thou shalt not have sex outside of wedlock.
Fundamentalists: "Gay can't get married!"
Gay Christians: "Then how are we supposed to avoid that out-ot-wedlock situation?"


Just one of the many contradictions in the bible.  That's why I hate it when people say they follow the literal words of the bible.  You can't.  In one book it will tell you one thing, and in the next tell you the other.  And of course, no Christian who claims to follow the bible literally refrains from bacon, polyester, cheeseburgers, crab legs, etc.
 
2014-02-24 08:17:16 AM

Tomahawk513: I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.


You do realize that that pastrami is made from beef, right?
 
2014-02-24 08:21:27 AM

ginandbacon: Tomahawk513: I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.

You do realize that that pastrami is made from beef, right?


You can't mix products from the same animal, i.e. cheese on beef. I admit, I had to think about it for a bit too.
 
2014-02-24 08:22:15 AM

ginandbacon: Tomahawk513: I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.

You do realize that that pastrami is made from beef, right?


Yeah, but under Jewish dietary law, combining meat and dairy isn't. Pastrami and Swiss on rye is an abomination in Yahweh's eye.
 
2014-02-24 08:23:42 AM

Tomahawk513: Antimatter: There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?

It was funny to watch he try to float between talking points, only to give up and go with the old 'big government, bad!' talking point in the end.  She was doing everything she could talking point wise to avoid admitting that yes, the law was designed so that you could hide behind your faith as a reason to deny services to gay people.

I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.


The last time I ate at A Jewish deli, I had a bacon cheeseburger. The moment that delicious sandwich touched my lips, the entire place spontaneously combusted in a blaze of glory.

No, seriously, nothing happened except I ate an awesome sandwich.
 
2014-02-24 08:25:28 AM
The mistake here is saying that the reasoning is "religious" and not simply saying that there is a difference between a wedding ceremony and a marriage ceremony. A wedding ceremony is a religious event; a marriage is a legal contract. I'm very religious (in a very open church, the Episcopal church, remember we have the "gay" Bishop), but if I don't feel a couple is going to fulfill the sacrament of holy matrimony, I won't support their wedding ceremony just to make them feel better. And I don't care if they're straight or gay, different skin colors or different religious beliefs.
All couples should be made to have a legal marriage ceremony performed by a judge. If they want to have a religious wedding ceremony, that would come afterwards. This way businesses that don't want to celebrate the religious wedding ceremony wouldn't be forced to; they would make their money from a legal wedding ceremony and their consciences wouldn't be "touched" by it.
 
2014-02-24 08:27:02 AM

cram_hole: You can't mix products from the same animal, i.e. cheese on beef. I admit, I had to think about it for a bit too.


jso2897: Yeah, but under Jewish dietary law, combining meat and dairy isn't. Pastrami and Swiss on rye is an abomination in Yahweh's eye.


Oh LOL!!!!! I must still be half asleep...
 
2014-02-24 08:29:32 AM

Antimatter: There was a girl on CNN today that was trying to frame it as religious freedom by claiming that it was no different then having a jewish caterer supply pork sandwiches for a wedding.

Honestly, would that even really matter?  I mean, they aren't eating it, so would that even cause a problem for them?



Wouldn't that be the catering company's own fault if they put pork on the menu in the first place? That would be about as dumb as a teetotaler bartender refusing to serve alcohol to people. They know what they're getting into when they take the job.

As long as the check clears, most caterers don't give a shiat what you ask them to serve.

And seriously, do you think any caterers or florists would take this moral stand for more than 1 wedding season? As soon as they see all the green they're losing out on, they'll change positions faster than Rick Santorum at Fleet Week.
 
2014-02-24 08:38:26 AM

stoli n coke: And seriously, do you think any caterers or florists would take this moral stand for more than 1 wedding season? As soon as they see all the green they're losing out on, they'll change positions faster than Rick Santorum at Fleet Week.


That's why this is so pants-shiatingly stupid. If there's one thing the Free Market would be good for, this is it. Yes, please, tell every potential customer that you will only serve them if they meet a certain set of your own moral requirements...see how that works out for you.
 
2014-02-24 08:41:13 AM
Religious issues aside,

www.mydoorsign.com

That should pretty much cover it.
 
2014-02-24 08:41:37 AM
Conservative Christians Selectively Apply Biblical Teachings in the Same-Sex Marriage Debate


There, fixed that for you, Daily Beast.
 
2014-02-24 08:44:22 AM
Oh please. A bunch of farking bigots are latching onto the whole "religious freedom" thing in a desperate ploy to hang onto their obsolete belief that gay people are icky.

I'm sure once this gets struck down they'll try something else.
 
2014-02-24 08:44:57 AM
Christians using the bible out of context to justify their own prejudices? Unpossible.
 
2014-02-24 08:45:25 AM

ginandbacon: Tomahawk513: I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.

You do realize that that pastrami is made from beef, right?


Can't mix dairy and meat
 
2014-02-24 08:46:00 AM

Memoryalpha: Religious issues aside,

[www.mydoorsign.com image 400x290]

That should pretty much cover it.


Except for public accommodations.
 
2014-02-24 08:46:35 AM

Memoryalpha: Religious issues aside,

[www.mydoorsign.com image 400x290]

That should pretty much cover it.


What do you think that sign "covers"?
Posting a sign like that doesn't enable you to discriminate in an unlawful manner.
 
2014-02-24 08:47:21 AM

jayhawk88: stoli n coke: And seriously, do you think any caterers or florists would take this moral stand for more than 1 wedding season? As soon as they see all the green they're losing out on, they'll change positions faster than Rick Santorum at Fleet Week.

That's why this is so pants-shiatingly stupid. If there's one thing the Free Market would be good for, this is it. Yes, please, tell every potential customer that you will only serve them if they meet a certain set of your own moral requirements...see how that works out for you.



Can't say I agree with either one of you.  More likely most people just won't care if said florist discriminates, whilst carving out a niche of people who really do care that they discriminate.  The Christian right is more passionate about this stuff than their numbers might suggest.   Meanwhile, anyone who's a target of their discrimination will know  that they're second class citizens.   "The market" has never fixed barriers to entry like this or any other kind really, because it's totally dependent on who has the money, not the rightness or popularity of their cause.
 
2014-02-24 08:47:37 AM
Rather than protecting the conscience rights of Christians, this looks a lot more like randomly applying religious belief in a way that discriminates against and marginalizes one group of people, while turning a blind eye to another group.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-24 08:49:30 AM

Memoryalpha: Religious issues aside,



That should pretty much cover it.


As long as the refusal isn't because of an illegal reason like the refused person is black or gay or Hindu, sure.
 
2014-02-24 08:49:42 AM

jso2897: Memoryalpha: Religious issues aside,

[www.mydoorsign.com image 400x290]

That should pretty much cover it.

What do you think that sign "covers"?
Posting a sign like that doesn't enable you to discriminate in an unlawful manner.



So you're saying that when I give someone a ride, my "Gas, Grass, or Ass" bumper sticker is not a legally binding contract ensuring I will be compensated by my passenger?
 
2014-02-24 08:49:57 AM

Mike_1962: ginandbacon: Tomahawk513: I doubt it.  I've been to Jewish delis and ordered a Pastrami and Swiss, and I always get a pastrami sandwich with deliciously melted Swiss cheese.  Strangely, the place does not go up in flames, nor is sulfur rained down from on high.  Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.

You do realize that that pastrami is made from beef, right?

Can't mix dairy and meat


Yeah--I already got my ass handed to me on that front. Sad thing is, I grew up on Brandeis's campus where my parents were RAs while my mother was working on her PhD. And then I went to college there!!! I plead exhaustion. And maybe a little stupidity. Or just the fact that I'm no longer allowed to drink coffee. Okay, I'm going with that.
 
2014-02-24 08:50:16 AM
Usury is mentioned multiple times in the Bible as a sin , especially when lending money to the poor. Yet, I don't see any conservative Christians speaking out against the payday loan places.
 
2014-02-24 08:50:24 AM
Forcing a service business to perform a service it would rather not seems remarkably stupid. "That bigoted caterer knows not to mess with us after I told him we'd put the law on him. Say, does this soup taste funny to you?"
 
2014-02-24 08:50:27 AM

Tomahawk513: Pillars of salt?  Not unless you include all the wonderfully sodium-packed lunch meats.


*slap* YOU KNOW WE DO
 
2014-02-24 08:55:49 AM

jjorsett: Forcing a service business to perform a service it would rather not seems remarkably stupid. "That bigoted caterer knows not to mess with us after I told him we'd put the law on him. Say, does this soup taste funny to you?"


I'm pretty sure someone made the exact same argument in the 1950s about serving blacks at the lunch counter.  It was stupid then, it's still stupid now.
 
2014-02-24 08:56:15 AM

jjorsett: Forcing a service business to perform a service it would rather not seems remarkably stupid. "That bigoted caterer knows not to mess with us after I told him we'd put the law on him. Say, does this soup taste funny to you?"


Fantasies of poisoning people. Nice.
Could you have picked a more pathetic flag of surrender?
Really passive-aggressive.
 
2014-02-24 08:57:06 AM

Dr. Whoof: jjorsett: Forcing a service business to perform a service it would rather not seems remarkably stupid. "That bigoted caterer knows not to mess with us after I told him we'd put the law on him. Say, does this soup taste funny to you?"

I'm pretty sure someone made the exact same argument in the 1950s about serving blacks at the lunch counter.  It was stupid then, it's still stupid now.


ALL the arguments that were stupid then are even stupider now - but it's all they've got.
 
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