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(Computerworld)   Microsoft promises to make things right for traditional computer users, including boot to desktop, reducing the system footprint, and promising free car washes to people if they would please start buying their OS again. Pretty please??   (computerworld.com) divider line 198
    More: Obvious, Microsoft, operating systems, Windows, Windows 8.1, computer users, Mobile World Congress, IDG, boots  
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4796 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Feb 2014 at 5:59 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-23 04:18:59 PM
Who buys an OS?

It comes with the box, unless youbmake your own.
 
2014-02-23 04:26:19 PM
Until those blockheads put Cleartype back into Office 2013, they're not going to sell much of that, either.
 
2014-02-23 04:31:28 PM
"We are making improvements to the user interface that will naturally bridge touch and desktop, especially for our mouse and keyboard users," Belfiore wrote on the Windows Phone blog

I don't want a "bridge", you senseless bastards.  I have twin 27" monitors beyond arms length.  You can take your touch interface and shove it up your clueless asses.
 
2014-02-23 04:37:38 PM

Marcus Aurelius: "We are making improvements to the user interface that will naturally bridge touch and desktop, especially for our mouse and keyboard users," Belfiore wrote on the Windows Phone blog

I don't want a "bridge", you senseless bastards.  I have twin 27" monitors beyond arms length.  You can take your touch interface and shove it up your clueless asses.


Fark Almighty THIS.  I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.
 
2014-02-23 04:47:56 PM

Marcus Aurelius: "We are making improvements to the user interface that will naturally bridge touch and desktop, especially for our mouse and keyboard users," Belfiore wrote on the Windows Phone blog

I don't want a "bridge", you senseless bastards.  I have twin 27" monitors beyond arms length.  You can take your touch interface and shove it up your clueless asses.


It sounds like they're adding some tweaks to make certain actions more intuitive for desktop users.  You can already do everything they mentioned with 8.1 other than launch metro apps from the taskbar.

Allowing metro apps to be used 'windowed' in the desktop space would be a nice addition.  Otherwise, I don't see a huge difference between booting to desktop and booting to the start screen and then clicking on the 'desktop' icon to bring it up.  Is that one extra click really pissing people off that much?

Windows 8 already has a desktop environment just as good as Windows 7.  It's no harder to use for desktop users than Windows 7.  The metro stuff is there for touch users, but entirely avoidable for desktop users.  Then again, if MS just needs to add a few tweaks and shortcuts so that people will stop the irrational hate and try 8 with an open mind to realize it really isn't that big of a change, they should go for it.
 
2014-02-23 05:17:50 PM
My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.
 
2014-02-23 05:22:21 PM

DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.


That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.
 
2014-02-23 05:37:02 PM

TuteTibiImperes: DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.

That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured  less-featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.


The non-hierarchical start menu, while perfectly fine for touch devices, is a step backward for mouse and keyboard users.  And it can take hours to clean it up to the point of usability if you've just upgraded.

Other than that, Windows 8 is fine.  Not great compared to 7, but not terrible, either.  It would be a welcome upgrade without the stupid Metro UI.

I'd also really like it to be true that they are going to put power options on the start screen.  It's a minor annoyance, but they add up.
 
2014-02-23 05:41:25 PM

TuteTibiImperes: That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.


That's part of the problem.  All of the windows familiarity was placed on the next level, one further mouse click away.  Provided that it hadn't moved, like search and so on.  And the fact that you have to explain that it's still there means it's not all that intuitive to find.

I know- I roll out windows systems all the time.  I end up showing users exactly what you've just said, which makes them happier.  Then they ask why, and I can only shrug my shoulders.  It's an OS designed by committee, and it shows.

If Microsoft released a corkscrew, it would look like this:

www.geekologie.com

And then someone like you would come along and extol how feature rich it is, how shiny it is, how it is a feat of engineering, and how it lends itself to endless reconfiguration.  But I tell ya what- 99% of people just want to drink the wine.  And all I see is a bunch of moving parts that are likely to break.
 
2014-02-23 05:53:18 PM

TuteTibiImperes: DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.

That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.


I've been using MSFT products since Windows 1.0 (even used Flight Simulator for the Apple II+).  The interface in Windows 8(.1) is horrid for desktop/laptop users.

I've been working on plans in my company to standardize on laptops since we're going it a bit haphazardly now i.e. what's on sale at Micro Center.  While I have gotten various bits of feedback from people (SSD, memory, screen size, etc.) the one thing they all agree on is it must run Windows 7.

This is way more than just a PR nightmare for Microsoft.
 
2014-02-23 05:57:35 PM

enry: TuteTibiImperes: DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.

That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.

I've been using MSFT products since Windows 1.0 (even used Flight Simulator for the Apple II+).  The interface in Windows 8(.1) is horrid for desktop/laptop users.

I've been working on plans in my company to standardize on laptops since we're going it a bit haphazardly now i.e. what's on sale at Micro Center.  While I have gotten various bits of feedback from people (SSD, memory, screen size, etc.) the one thing they all agree on is it must run Windows 7.

This is way more than just a PR nightmare for Microsoft.


The interface in 8 is virtually identical to the one in 7 once you're in desktop mode.  8.1 let's you boot to desktop so you don't even need to do that one tiny click to get there.

The only big difference, as Lsherm mentioned, is the start screen instead of start menu, and even then for a corporate rollout you can easily pin the apps needed to the taskbar.

I was originally against the idea of the Start Screen - then I started using it and I realized it's not a big deal.  Instead of hunting through a cascading Start Menu, I just hit the windows key and start typing the name of the program I'm looking for, with a few keystrokes it comes right up.  It's easier and faster than the Start Menu was.
 
2014-02-23 06:06:52 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I was originally against the idea of the Start Screen - then I started using it and I realized it's not a big deal.  Instead of hunting through a cascading Start Menu, I just hit the windows key and start typing the name of the program I'm looking for, with a few keystrokes it comes right up.  It's easier and faster than the Start Menu was.


The only downside to that method (and it's only one, and only for me) is that if you can't remember exactly what the program is called, you have to hunt and peck to find what you are looking for.  I used to keep everything categorized according to function, so if I was looking for a video editor I installed a year ago I could just run down a folder tree until I found it.

I've managed to work around that by creating groups on the new Start screen, but it's a far bigger pain in the ass to organize.  Part of that is because companies are still including a bunch of junk that doesn't need to be on the start screen, like links to their homepages, readme files, etc.

Before 8 I could categorize apps during installation, now I have to go back and clean it up afterwards.  Again, it's a minor annoyance, but it IS extra work compared to what I was doing before.  I also wish there was a way to script the start screen interface so I could just write something that would do all this for me.  Usually if I install something it's more than a few clicks to resize the icon, move it to the correct group, and clear out the extra junk.

It's not something I notice on a daily basis because my most used programs are on the taskbar, but I can't put everything I install on the taskbar.  That negates the purpose of quick launch altogether.  Some things just need to sit in the background until they're ready to be used.
 
2014-02-23 06:08:27 PM
Those farking tards!  I need to buy a new laptop now and they're not gonna have this sumbiatch working until mid-summer, earliest.
 
2014-02-23 06:12:04 PM
i discovered yesterday that you can't boot into safe mode... unless the machine is already booting.

freaking delightful.. and i was a win 8 apologist!
 
2014-02-23 06:13:39 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.


As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.
 
2014-02-23 06:13:44 PM

TheOther: Those farking tards!  I need to buy a new laptop now and they're not gonna have this sumbiatch working until mid-summer, earliest.


A lot of companies are still offering 7, but MS plans to pull the plug on that in Q4.
 
2014-02-23 06:18:02 PM
Why would they do that? I've been assured by Farkers than Windows 8 is a great desktop operating system, and that any complaints about it are just from whiny losers.
 
2014-02-23 06:22:32 PM

DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.


Meanwhile, on other earth:  "LOL, MS thought they could stay with just keyboard and mouse UI forever, losers don't understand that people want touch interfaces now!"

(truth, somewhere in the middle depending on the device)
 
2014-02-23 06:23:34 PM

TuteTibiImperes: enry: TuteTibiImperes: DanZero: My new machine has 8.1, and it's so much better over plain 8. It boots to desktop, I don't have to see those tiles, and it starts up in less than 30 seconds. A lot more stable than Vista has been too. If there's gonna be even more improvements, that's good too. They should have just STAYED with keyboard and mouse user interface, honestly.

That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.

I've been using MSFT products since Windows 1.0 (even used Flight Simulator for the Apple II+).  The interface in Windows 8(.1) is horrid for desktop/laptop users.

I've been working on plans in my company to standardize on laptops since we're going it a bit haphazardly now i.e. what's on sale at Micro Center.  While I have gotten various bits of feedback from people (SSD, memory, screen size, etc.) the one thing they all agree on is it must run Windows 7.

This is way more than just a PR nightmare for Microsoft.

The interface in 8 is virtually identical to the one in 7 once you're in desktop mode.  8.1 let's you boot to desktop so you don't even need to do that one tiny click to get there.

The only big difference, as Lsherm mentioned, is the start screen instead of start menu, and even then for a corporate rollout you can easily pin the apps needed to the taskbar.

I was originally against the idea of the Start Screen - then I started using it and I realized it's not a big deal.  Instead of hunting through a cascading Start Menu, I just hit the windows key and start typing the name of the program I'm looking for, with a few keystrokes it comes right up.  It's easier and faster than the Start Menu was.


True but very understated.  There are a lot more annoyances than having to click one button to get to the desktop--virtually everything configuration, from personalizing your desktop to finding administrative tasks, has changed.  True, everyday functionality hasn't necessarily changed, but I'd wager that  every Windows session is going to have at least one annoying experience for the average user (from accidentally clicking a "hot corner" because you're used to quick sliding of the mouse to the edges, trying to change the viewing of a folder because they wanted to add "ribbon" functionality to something that didn't have enough options to justify, finding the personalization settings for desktop vs. metro, accidentally opening the Outlook "app" instead of the desktop version because you forgot that icon in Metro is different than when you type "outlook" and hit enter, to forgetting the name of an app and trying to find it again in "All Apps" in Metro, etc).

All of those extra steps and annoyances add up, which lend to a highly-degraded experience to something many of us WANT to consider "routine" at this point.  Even Microsoft has just admitted to it, as was the point of TFA.  I'm not sure why you're defending clearly bad decision choices (such as the example of the shutdown in TFA).
 
2014-02-23 06:26:07 PM

tlchwi02: i discovered yesterday that you can't boot into safe mode... unless the machine is already booting.

freaking delightful.. and i was a win 8 apologist!


You can still boot into safe mode by hitting F8 while the machine restarts, but if you're booting from an SSD on a machine with a UEFI BIOS the timing is tough as the machine boots so fast that your keystroke may not register in time.

Windows 8 still supports the command, faster disks and firmware just make it harder to get it in.

If you can get to the login page, you can just hit the restart button while holding down shift to bring up the start options menu.
 
2014-02-23 06:26:40 PM

TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.


And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?
 
2014-02-23 06:36:54 PM

FarkGrudge: True but very understated.  There are a lot more annoyances than having to click one button to get to the desktop--virtually everything configuration, from personalizing your desktop to finding administrative tasks, has changed.  True, everyday functionality hasn't necessarily changed, but I'd wager that  every Windows session is going to have at least one annoying experience for the average user (from accidentally clicking a "hot corner" because you're used to quick sliding of the mouse to the edges, trying to change the viewing of a folder because they wanted to add "ribbon" functionality to something that didn't have enough options to justify, finding the personalization settings for desktop vs. metro, accidentally opening the Outlook "app" instead of the desktop version because you forgot that icon in Metro is different than when you type "outlook" and hit enter, to forgetting the name of an app and trying to find it again in "All Apps" in Metro, etc). 

All of those extra steps and annoyances add up, which lend to a highly-degraded experience to something many of us WANT to consider "routine" at this point.  Even Microsoft has just admitted to it, as was the point of TFA.  I'm not sure why you're defending clearly bad decision choices (such as the example of the shutdown in TFA).


I'm not saying it's perfect, and MS did a lot with 8.1 to smooth our the rough edges, and it's good that they're continuing to do so.  I'm just saying that a lot of people have been screaming like the sky is falling over changes that really aren't that big, or who are perpetuating completely untrue myths about the OS.  For example, in every Windows 8 thread someone will pipe up that 'you can't run more than one program at a time' which is such utter BS that I have no idea how it continues to spread.

How often do you change your admin or system settings?  You may do it when you first install the OS or get a new PC, but other than that, does it even come up on a yearly basis?  I agree that moving around some of the control panels and settings as an odd choice, but again, in 8.1 they unified a lot of it and improved the search function as well.

I've found the ribbon folders to be pretty intuitive, and didn't even consciously realize they'd changed until someone else mentioned it.

If you couldn't remember the name of an app before it was just as hard to find it in the start menu as it is on the start screen.  In fact, with the start screen I've found it easier as I can just start typing the name of the actual program, whereas with the start menu things would often install under a folder named after the company that made it, instead of the name of the program itself.

At the end of the day, this is the direction MS is taking things, so the choices are either get on board now and get comfortable with it, buy a Mac, or install Linux and deal with with 10x more usability annoyances.

MS is pushing convergence between desktop, tablet, and phone, so metro isn't going away.  Anyone who thinks that Windows 9 is going to be a return to the Windows 7 UI is kidding themselves.  Why fight the inevitable - just embrace the change and you'll find that overall it's a good thing.
 
2014-02-23 06:41:03 PM

TuteTibiImperes: tlchwi02: i discovered yesterday that you can't boot into safe mode... unless the machine is already booting.

freaking delightful.. and i was a win 8 apologist!

You can still boot into safe mode by hitting F8 while the machine restarts, but if you're booting from an SSD on a machine with a UEFI BIOS the timing is tough as the machine boots so fast that your keystroke may not register in time.

Windows 8 still supports the command, faster disks and firmware just make it harder to get it in.

If you can get to the login page, you can just hit the restart button while holding down shift to bring up the start options menu.


Lord, I had forgotten about that.  The one time my PC wouldn't boot up and I needed safe mode I had to use my system recovery USB key to get into it.  It would not register my keystrokes at all.  Talk about too much of a good thing.

Still, lesson learned - make a system recovery drive.  It's worth it just for troubleshooting.
 
2014-02-23 06:42:24 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.

And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?


That's what I've yet to hear. What is there about 8 that would make me say "Damn thats sweet. I wish 7 could do that."
 
2014-02-23 06:43:19 PM

doglover: Who buys an OS?


Corporations, who buy more OS licenses than consumers. And they want nothing to do with Windows 8.
 
2014-02-23 06:48:14 PM

Old enough to know better: Benevolent Misanthrope: TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.

And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?

That's what I've yet to hear. What is there about 8 that would make me say "Damn thats sweet. I wish 7 could do that."


It is a little faster, lighter on resources, and has improved security.  That being said, it's not a huge upgrade from 7, so if you're happy with 7, you may just want to stick with it until you replace your PC.

I upgraded from Vista to 8, and the increase in speed and stability has been dramatic.
 
2014-02-23 06:48:55 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The only big difference, as Lsherm mentioned, is the start screen instead of start menu, and even then for a corporate rollout you can easily pin the apps needed to the taskbar.


Where I work has steered clear of W8, and for good reasons, namely this. No "pinning", no "apps", no finding sh*t in corners. There is a suite of programs that are installed on every machine, accessible from the start menu and arranged how the user likes them - alphabetically, frequency of use, etc. That's what they want. Microsoft wants to sell people little gizmos and crap from their "app" store, when what they want is just to work. Standardization, fewer moving parts, no fancy gizmos or attempts to sell me sh*t... that's it.

And if the "new" W8 interface is "as good as" W7, why not just use W7 and skip all the backflips that must be done to make W8 work like W7?
 
2014-02-23 06:55:44 PM

unyon: TuteTibiImperes: That's the thing, they did.  The KBM traditional desktop never went away.  It's always been there, and always been just as full featured as every previous version of Windows.  The Windows 8 hate has been derived from a lot of misinformation and hyperbole.

That's part of the problem.  All of the windows familiarity was placed on the next level, one further mouse click away.  Provided that it hadn't moved, like search and so on.  And the fact that you have to explain that it's still there means it's not all that intuitive to find.

I know- I roll out windows systems all the time.  I end up showing users exactly what you've just said, which makes them happier.  Then they ask why, and I can only shrug my shoulders.  It's an OS designed by committee, and it shows.

If Microsoft released a corkscrew, it would look like this:

[www.geekologie.com image 640x408]

And then someone like you would come along and extol how feature rich it is, how shiny it is, how it is a feat of engineering, and how it lends itself to endless reconfiguration.  But I tell ya what- 99% of people just want to drink the wine.  And all I see is a bunch of moving parts that are likely to break.


Exactly.  I understand the need to change but the changes didn't make it better to use, just made it confusing.  The worst part is that I think underneath that shiatty UI there is a pretty good OS.  While the reaction to 8 has been overblown I think that if they made it function like 7 out of the box people would love it.
 
2014-02-23 06:55:50 PM
So did Bill Gates ask them to call their new systems Maverick so they'd take a dive? It's the most cowboy Sarah Palin gambler on a riverboat sounding name possible. Are they going to realise a limited edition Duck Dynasty one next?
 
2014-02-23 06:58:31 PM

rewind2846: TuteTibiImperes: The only big difference, as Lsherm mentioned, is the start screen instead of start menu, and even then for a corporate rollout you can easily pin the apps needed to the taskbar.

Where I work has steered clear of W8, and for good reasons, namely this. No "pinning", no "apps", no finding sh*t in corners. There is a suite of programs that are installed on every machine, accessible from the start menu and arranged how the user likes them - alphabetically, frequency of use, etc. That's what they want. Microsoft wants to sell people little gizmos and crap from their "app" store, when what they want is just to work. Standardization, fewer moving parts, no fancy gizmos or attempts to sell me sh*t... that's it.

And if the "new" W8 interface is "as good as" W7, why not just use W7 and skip all the backflips that must be done to make W8 work like W7?


I think you're fighting a losing battle WRT 'app' vs 'program'.  It's just shorthand for application, and in common parlance it's becoming common to refer to anything from Flappy Bird to Maya as an 'app'.

The Windows Store is there primarily for tablet users, and is necessary to compete with the Apple App Store and Google Play.  MS isn't trying to make it so that you can't buy applications from other sources and install them on your Windows 8 machine.

You can install Maya, Pro Tools, Visual Studio, whatever, and pin them to the taskbar, arrange them alphabetically in the first column of the start screen, whatever makes you happy.
 
2014-02-23 07:02:45 PM

Old enough to know better: Benevolent Misanthrope: TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.

And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?

That's what I've yet to hear. What is there about 8 that would make me say "Damn thats sweet. I wish 7 could do that."


One thing I really do like is Bitlocker for external drives. I have a lot of sensitive work docs I need to keep on externals because the SSD on my laptop is too small, and Bitlocker is faster and much more seamless than the manufacturer software I was using before. For example, I can have it set so that Bitlocker automatically unlocks the drive when Connected to my work laptop with my account logged in, so I get all the security I need with the convenience of plug and play that a non-encrypted drive would have. Also, using an external monitor is a lot better with 8, with task bars in both monitors and different wallpapers (instead of having the wallpaper scaled for the smallest monitor like with previous versions).

That said, none of these things could not have been done without keeping the old Start menu as an option. It worked well for what it did, and I just don't see how the Start screen has made me any more productive.
 
2014-02-23 07:03:10 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Old enough to know better: Benevolent Misanthrope: TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.

And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?

That's what I've yet to hear. What is there about 8 that would make me say "Damn thats sweet. I wish 7 could do that."

It is a little faster, lighter on resources, and has improved security.  That being said, it's not a huge upgrade from 7, so if you're happy with 7, you may just want to stick with it until you replace your PC.

I upgraded from Vista to 8, and the increase in speed and stability has been dramatic.


Honestly, I've been avoiding replacing my old ultrabook (R.I.P.) because everything now has Win8 and I HATE the Metro interface.  I very nearly bought a MacBook because of it.  But I decided to try Win8.  I'm using a borrowed Win8 laptop right now, and the whole popping in and out of the Metro start screen is annoying the crap out of me.  Even trying to right click in the bottom left to get to the damn menu... half the time it puts me to that farking Metro screen.

At first I thought, "Oh, it's just new, and I'm being unreasonably resistant to change.  I'll get used to it."  But now I know - I just don't like it.
 
2014-02-23 07:07:20 PM

YodaBlues: doglover: Who buys an OS?

Corporations, who buy more OS licenses than consumers. And they want nothing to do with Windows 8.


No corporation wants anything to do with a new OS. It's hardly a new thing.
 
2014-02-23 07:09:38 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: TuteTibiImperes: Old enough to know better: Benevolent Misanthrope: TheMysteriousStranger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Fark Almighty THIS. I can reach mine if I really try, but for Fark's sake, I have absolutely no interest in a touch interface at my desk.

As I type this I can't even remotely touch my screen.

And Windows 8 is SUCH an improvement over 7 for you... how?

That's what I've yet to hear. What is there about 8 that would make me say "Damn thats sweet. I wish 7 could do that."

It is a little faster, lighter on resources, and has improved security.  That being said, it's not a huge upgrade from 7, so if you're happy with 7, you may just want to stick with it until you replace your PC.

I upgraded from Vista to 8, and the increase in speed and stability has been dramatic.

Honestly, I've been avoiding replacing my old ultrabook (R.I.P.) because everything now has Win8 and I HATE the Metro interface.  I very nearly bought a MacBook because of it.  But I decided to try Win8.  I'm using a borrowed Win8 laptop right now, and the whole popping in and out of the Metro start screen is annoying the crap out of me.  Even trying to right click in the bottom left to get to the damn menu... half the time it puts me to that farking Metro screen.

At first I thought, "Oh, it's just new, and I'm being unreasonably resistant to change.  I'll get used to it."  But now I know - I just don't like it.


I actually made the switch to a Mac because Win8 sucked so bad, and I've discovered how completely awesome the MBP actually is.
 
2014-02-23 07:16:46 PM

TuteTibiImperes: FarkGrudge: True but very understated.  There are a lot more annoyances than having to click one button to get to the desktop--virtually everything configuration, from personalizing your desktop to finding administrative tasks, has changed.  True, everyday functionality hasn't necessarily changed, but I'd wager that  every Windows session is going to have at least one annoying experience for the average user (from accidentally clicking a "hot corner" because you're used to quick sliding of the mouse to the edges, trying to change the viewing of a folder because they wanted to add "ribbon" functionality to something that didn't have enough options to justify, finding the personalization settings for desktop vs. metro, accidentally opening the Outlook "app" instead of the desktop version because you forgot that icon in Metro is different than when you type "outlook" and hit enter, to forgetting the name of an app and trying to find it again in "All Apps" in Metro, etc). 

All of those extra steps and annoyances add up, which lend to a highly-degraded experience to something many of us WANT to consider "routine" at this point.  Even Microsoft has just admitted to it, as was the point of TFA.  I'm not sure why you're defending clearly bad decision choices (such as the example of the shutdown in TFA).

I'm not saying it's perfect, and MS did a lot with 8.1 to smooth our the rough edges, and it's good that they're continuing to do so.  I'm just saying that a lot of people have been screaming like the sky is falling over changes that really aren't that big, or who are perpetuating completely untrue myths about the OS.  For example, in every Windows 8 thread someone will pipe up that 'you can't run more than one program at a time' which is such utter BS that I have no idea how it continues to spread.

How often do you change your admin or system settings?  You may do it when you first install the OS or get a new PC, but other than that, does it even come up on a yearly basi ...


Metro isn't better though, it's just different. It reminds me of Apple's At Ease from the 90s.

On the cut-to-length tubing machine at work, no one knows where the shutdown command is in Windows 8. They also can't figure out how to increase the size of the metro panels for the two programs we actually use. So the metro screen has two one inch icons. These people aren't the brightest, but it's bad design when a core function of a computer is moved and hidden.

/shutdown /s /f /t 0
 
2014-02-23 07:23:10 PM

doglover: Who buys an OS?

It comes with the box, unless youbmake your own.


LOL end users
 
2014-02-23 07:23:31 PM
Once I installed Classic Shell on my Surface it's not too bad. A few things are still harder than they should be but it generally works.

The surface itself is a really nice piece kit. We've been getting them as test units and for some tasks they're the best thing out there. The combination of Surface, OneNote, a web browser and Camtasia is an amazing tool for developing online training materials or flipping classroom lectures.
 
2014-02-23 07:25:06 PM

MHudson: YodaBlues: doglover: Who buys an OS?

Corporations, who buy more OS licenses than consumers. And they want nothing to do with Windows 8.

No corporation wants anything to do with a new OS. It's hardly a new thing.


You're not exactly telling me something I don't already know. But imagine trying to sell them on a not only a new OS, but one that is guaranteed to cause a majority of their users (a majority of which are not computer literate) to be calling the help desk cause the interface is completely jacked.
 
2014-02-23 07:25:14 PM
I'm increasingly becoming convinced that MS makes every other OS suck intentionally.  People ran out and bought Windows 7 because Vista sucked, and appreciate it more because 8 sucks.  Same story for XP and 98.  Or possibly it's unintentional and they just have an "A" team and a "B" team working on alternating OSes.  Either way, history suggests 9 will be an improvement.
 
2014-02-23 07:32:49 PM
Installed windows 8.1 in a VM today, so I'm really getting a kick.
 
2014-02-23 07:41:33 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Instead of hunting through a cascading Start Menu, I just hit the windows key and start typing the name of the program I'm looking for, with a few keystrokes it comes right up.  It's easier and faster than the Start Menu was.


Thing is ... I wasn't 'hunting' through a start menu.

I had a start menu that I arranged to exactly how I wanted it, and typing to search for programs is a step behind for me.
 
2014-02-23 07:44:34 PM
How to install without a Microsoft account?
lordargent.com

Mash on the keyboard
lordargent.com
 
2014-02-23 07:49:32 PM

lordargent: How to install without a Microsoft account?
[lordargent.com image 850x695]

Mash on the keyboard
[lordargent.com image 850x690]


They annoyingly hide it in the "Create a new account" option. Once you click on that you have the option of signing in without an account
 
2014-02-23 07:53:04 PM
F&ck MS. I still can't figure out how tf someone thought it was a good idea to make Server 2012 have a touch-centric UI. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is if you're using an IP KVM and have to get to *ONE* little pixel that brings up the start whatever the f*ck they're calling it?

THe whole thing is just maddening. It's sh*t like this that started the movie Falling Down.
 
2014-02-23 07:57:47 PM

Tyrone Slothrop: Why would they do that? I've been assured by Farkers than Windows 8 is a great desktop operating system, and that any complaints about it are just from whiny losers.


Those people are basically correct.
 
2014-02-23 07:58:52 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Allowing metro apps to be used 'windowed' in the desktop space would be a nice addition.


Yes, it would. This is the problem I have - apps are as easy for me to find on the start screen as the old start menu - but when I hit a metro tile, I get a cartoonish, fullscreen application - not a little window on my desktop. This is useless to me.
I have to have an icon on my desktop to pull up the regular iteration of calculator. Who the hell needs a giant calculator that fills the whole screen?
 
2014-02-23 08:00:07 PM
TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]

At the end of the day, this is the direction MS is taking things, so the choices are either get on board now and get comfortable with it, buy a Mac, or install Linux and deal with with 10x more usability annoyances.

Yeah it's terrible installing the default settings most Linux distros use, getting to a desktop, being able to have multiple windows open, a nice traditional too bar on your word processor and spreadsheet. Pure hell I tell you.
 
2014-02-23 08:00:18 PM
Pssst, subby...

People are still buying Windows. They're preferring to purchase 7 over 8, but they're still buying it. It's not like Microsoft is on the brink of bankruptcy, this happens every other time they release a new OS. One sucks, the next one is great, the next one sucks, and so on...

It's not a surprise. What IS a surprise are the people who seem to think that this is some kind of new trend...
 
2014-02-23 08:02:32 PM

Cubansaltyballs: F&ck MS. I still can't figure out how tf someone thought it was a good idea to make Server 2012 have a touch-centric UI. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is if you're using an IP KVM and have to get to *ONE* little pixel that brings up the start whatever the f*ck they're calling it?

THe whole thing is just maddening. It's sh*t like this that started the movie Falling Down.


I went through three makes of KVM, trying to find one that would work reliably with 8.1 - couldn't, and gave up.
 
2014-02-23 08:04:40 PM
MightyPez: They annoyingly hide it in the "Create a new account" option. Once you click on that you have the option of signing in without an account

I saw it there when I went back to experiment with a second VM. The GF didn't believe that there wasn't an obvious option, wanted to know if pressing 'Esc' would work.

Also ... This is what my metro interface looks like after I got rid of all the fluff stuff that I won't be using in a VM.
lordargent.com
// need to install firefox

// I had to move my VM to another partition, the older version of virtualbox (supports up to win7) put its files into .VirtualBox (which I had symlinked to a 500gb partition on a 3TB disk). The version of virtualbox that supports Win 8 puts its files into VirtualBox VMs.

I set up the win8 VM, then went to download the updates *about 750 MB worth), and ... a 10 GB virtual disk wasn't enough space. And my /home partition is only 20GB total.

OOPS ... Moved the files and symlinked 'VirtualBox VMs' as well.

One thing I noted, my Ubuntu root folder is just 6GB, my home folder is only 846 MB. That's including all of the software that I have installed. Why does a fresh OS install need over 10GB? How much preinstalled crap are they carting along?

// I didn't see a way to choose not to install certain software components like they had with previous versions of windows. I tried to uninstall what I could but ... SkyDrive, Windows Journal, Paint, Fax and Scan, Sound Recorder, Wordpad and a few other programs don't seem to be uninstallable.

Since this is a VM, my goal is to trim as much of this cruft out as possible.
 
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