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(Oregon Live)   There's nothing more defensive than a Southerner in the Northwest sticking up for the Confederate Flag   (oregonlive.com) divider line 230
    More: Silly, Northwest, Dukes of Hazzard, Hazzard County, Jin, Fort Benning  
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8694 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Feb 2014 at 8:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



230 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-23 08:00:00 AM  
String up a Nazi flag and see how that goes. For some reason we like our enemies to remain vanquished.
 
2014-02-23 08:03:45 AM  
It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".
 
2014-02-23 08:08:54 AM  
"4. The confederate flag is a symbol of rebellion..."

Exactly, rebellion against the United States, that says you are a traitor.
 
2014-02-23 08:35:30 AM  
When a southerner talks about "states rights", remember the right they're talking about is the right to own other people.
 
2014-02-23 08:38:23 AM  
Hey dingus, if your region was part of the country during the war, it would have fought for the blue team. No flags.
 
2014-02-23 08:42:50 AM  
I always thought a doormat would be an acceptable use for the confederate flag.

i218.photobucket.com
...or just wipe my feet on it, redneck.
 
2014-02-23 08:43:43 AM  
I don't care what this asshole says. The General Lee is awesome.
 
2014-02-23 08:43:51 AM  
1. It's racist as fark. It has nothing to do with heritage or history.

2. I really don't care what people put on their cars. If some twatwaffle can put aborted fetuses all over their van than a confederate is not going to make me flinch.

3. Your blog sucks.
 
2014-02-23 08:44:04 AM  
Was Cotton Jin an alternate character in Tekken: Gone With the Wind?
 
2014-02-23 08:44:30 AM  

EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".


Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.
 
2014-02-23 08:46:09 AM  
People lose their stool way too readily over symbols.
 
2014-02-23 08:46:21 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.


This American Life did a story about that.
 
2014-02-23 08:46:39 AM  
FTA:   "A brief American history": The civil war officially started on April 12th, 1861. Even before the cotton Jin, crops, primarily cotton were a huge money maker for the southern states. Due to the vast land and favorable conditions, land owners in the south could and did become extremely self sufficient; so much so they were able trade with other countries such as France, completely leaving the struggling industrialized north out of the picture. Hence fourth, the federal government began imposing unjust and rather high taxes on all international trade among many other things bringing forth the succession of several southern states. Sound familiar? You know it does Yankee Doodle! The emancipation proclamation was nothing other than a last ditch effort in 1863, to make those southern patriots fighting for their freedom and independence out to be war mongers guilty of crimes against humanity. It worked.

Man, Southern schools must teach the most absurdly false garbage about the civil war. So many times I've heard bullshiat like this from someone who honestly believed it because their eighth grade history teacher would surely never lie to them, right?

It's probably unnecessary to mention it on Fark, but the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States are the confederate states explaining why they seceded, in their own words. The reasons they give are slavery, slavery and slavery.
 
2014-02-23 08:47:05 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I don't care what this asshole says. The General Lee is awesome.


That's an entirely different argument altogether.
 
2014-02-23 08:47:18 AM  

EvilEgg: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.

This American Life did a story about that.


Really? I'd love to see it. What conclusions did they reach?
 
2014-02-23 08:55:01 AM  

EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".


Have you heard of Nusouth Apparel?  A clothing company founded in 1993 by two southern, black men, using a confederate flag as their symbol, only with the colors changed to include African colors black and green.  I don't think they are as successful as they hoped, or I just haven't seen their stuff around, but they exist.
 
2014-02-23 09:01:02 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.


Maybe if it had one of those Calvin's peeing on it you'd get somewhere with that suggestion?

Hey - that might sell.
 
2014-02-23 09:03:01 AM  
Dear asshats who don't think the South succeeded over slavery,

In Jefferson Davis' first message to the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States of America, he says the reason the South succeeded was specifically to protect their right to own slaves:

When the several States delegated certain powers to the United States Congress, a large portion of the laboring population consisted of African slaves imported into the colonies by the mother country. In twelve out of the thirteen States negro slavery existed, and the right of property in slaves was protected by law. This property was recognized in the Constitution, and provision was made against its loss by the escape of the slave. The increase in the number of slaves by further importation from Africa was also secured by a clause forbidding Congress to prohibit the slave trade anterior to a certain date, and in no clause can there be found any delegation of power to the Congress authorizing it in any manner to legislate to the prejudice, detriment, or discouragement of the owners of that species of property, or excluding it from the protection of the Government.

...

Finally a great party was organized for the purpose of obtaining the administration of the Government, with the avowed object of using its power for the total exclusion of the slave States from all participation in the benefits of the public domain acquired by all the States in common, whether by conquest or purchase; of surrounding them entirely by States in which slavery should be prohibited; of thus rendering the property in slaves so insecure as to be comparatively worthless, and thereby annihilating in effect property worth thousands of millions of dollars. This party, thus organized, succeeded in the month of November last in the election of its candidate for the Presidency of the United States.

In moral and social condition [slaves] had been elevated from brutal savages into docile, intelligent, and civilized agricultural laborers, and supplied not only with bodily comforts but with careful religious instruction. Under the supervision of a superior race their labor had been so directed as not only to allow a gradual and marked amelioration of their own condition
, but to convert hundreds of thousands of square miles of wilderness into cultivated lands covered with a prosperous people; towns and cities had sprung into existence, and had rapidly increased in wealth and population under the social system of the South; the white population of the Southern slaveholding States had augmented form about 1,250,000 at the date of the adoption of the Constitution to more than 8,500,000 in 1860; and the productions of the South in cotton, rice, sugar, and tobacco, for the full development and continuance of which the labor of African slaves was and is indispensable, had swollen to an amount which formed nearly three-fourths of the exports of the whole United States and had become absolutely necessary to the wants of civilized man. With interests of such overwhelming magnitude imperiled, the people of the Southern States were driven by the conduct of the North to the adoption of some course of action to avert the danger with which they were openly menaced.
 
2014-02-23 09:10:29 AM  

EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".


Um... have you never been to Atlanta?  They do.

Here's a random article about one:  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins - fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/
 
2014-02-23 09:12:18 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: When a southerner talks about "states rights", remember the right they're talking about is the right to own other people.


It's political correctness gone mad, 1861 edition.
 
2014-02-23 09:13:42 AM  

CitizenjaQ: AverageAmericanGuy: I don't care what this asshole says. The General Lee is awesome.

That's an entirely different argument altogether.



That's an entirely different argument.
 
2014-02-23 09:15:23 AM  

thornhill: Dear asshats who don't think the South succeeded over slavery,

In Jefferson Davis' first message to the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States of America, he says the reason the South succeeded was specifically to protect their right to own slaves:

When the several States delegated certain powers to the United States Congress, a large portion of the laboring population consisted of African slaves imported into the colonies by the mother country. In twelve out of the thirteen States negro slavery existed, and the right of property in slaves was protected by law. This property was recognized in the Constitution, and provision was made against its loss by the escape of the slave. The increase in the number of slaves by further importation from Africa was also secured by a clause forbidding Congress to prohibit the slave trade anterior to a certain date, and in no clause can there be found any delegation of power to the Congress authorizing it in any manner to legislate to the prejudice, detriment, or discouragement of the owners of that species of property, or excluding it from the protection of the Government.

...

Finally a great party was organized for the purpose of obtaining the administration of the Government, with the avowed object of using its power for the total exclusion of the slave States from all participation in the benefits of the public domain acquired by all the States in common, whether by conquest or purchase; of surrounding them entirely by States in which slavery should be prohibited; of thus rendering the property in slaves so insecure as to be comparatively worthless, and thereby annihilating in effect property worth thousands of millions of dollars. This party, thus organized, succeeded in the month of November last in the election of its candidate for the Presidency of the United States.

In moral and social condition [slaves] had been elevated from brutal savages into docile, intelligent, and civilized agricultural laborers, and su ...


Liberal plant! Isolated incident!
 
2014-02-23 09:15:45 AM  
I am currently in the south....of France....and I saw a box truck with a rebel flag hung up behind the driver.

I laughed my ass off.  Then I went to work where there is a cartoon posted up on one of the doors where somebody put buck teeth and a ricer farmers hat on a stick figure....

/ahh, progressive Europe....
 
2014-02-23 09:18:24 AM  
I dislike Joseph Rose and his "every car is a bad car" commuting column so much that I think I'll side with the ignorant redneck racist on this one.
 
2014-02-23 09:19:58 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.

This American Life did a story about that.
 
Really? I'd love to see it. What conclusions did they reach?


Never mind, I'm reading the transcript now.
 
2014-02-23 09:21:35 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.


i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-23 09:22:07 AM  
I was born in Alabama and live in Atlanta and I never did understand embracing the symbols of that 'heritage' "Yes! my ancestors were not only traitors, but they were losers too!"
 
2014-02-23 09:23:23 AM  

Gunther: Man, Southern schools must teach the most absurdly false garbage about the civil war. So many times I've heard bullshiat like this from someone who honestly believed it because their eighth grade history teacher would surely never lie to them, right?


I attended schools in Alabama through the 1980s. The explanation varied from year to year. Sometimes it was claimed it was about states rights of which slavery was a minor issue and other years the explanation was that it was almost exclusively about slavery. I think the change would happen whenever we elected a new governor which changed a lot of the top administration for the state department of education. In the end those who graduated with me had been exposed to both explanations and could choose whichever one best fit their worldview. Judging from what I see posted by old classmates on Facebook most decided that their view is that the South is forever the most awesome place on earth but it's being kept down by "those people" in Washington, D.C. or California. If they could run things themselves, all would be great.
 
2014-02-23 09:23:54 AM  

Jim_Callahan: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Um... have you never been to Atlanta?  They do.

Here's a random article about one:  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/02/black-college-student-wins - fight-to-display-confederate-flag-in-dorm-room/


Yeah, it's not as simple as saying 'they're racist!' when it comes to the confederate flag. Many people DO display it because of their pride in being a Southerner, not so much because of what the South did in the Civil War. Personally, I wish they would find another symbol to latch onto. I am proud to be a Southerner, but I would never use the Confederate flag to show it.
 
2014-02-23 09:25:30 AM  

jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.

[i18.photobucket.com image 524x322]


i168.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-23 09:26:53 AM  
re: the southern guy's response letter

How dare the Union demand southern states not make up individual foreign policy!!
 
2014-02-23 09:27:57 AM  

Gunther: FTA:   "A brief American history": The civil war officially started on April 12th, 1861. Even before the cotton Jin, crops, primarily cotton were a huge money maker for the southern states. Due to the vast land and favorable conditions, land owners in the south could and did become extremely self sufficient; so much so they were able trade with other countries such as France, completely leaving the struggling industrialized north out of the picture. Hence fourth, the federal government began imposing unjust and rather high taxes on all international trade among many other things bringing forth the succession of several southern states. Sound familiar? You know it does Yankee Doodle! The emancipation proclamation was nothing other than a last ditch effort in 1863, to make those southern patriots fighting for their freedom and independence out to be war mongers guilty of crimes against humanity. It worked.

Man, Southern schools must teach the most absurdly false garbage about the civil war. So many times I've heard bullshiat like this from someone who honestly believed it because their eighth grade history teacher would surely never lie to them, right?

It's probably unnecessary to mention it on Fark, but the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States are the confederate states explaining why they seceded, in their own words. The reasons they give are slavery, slavery and slavery.


I think it's your historical knowledge is the one lacking because the bolded type is accurate. At least one State seceded years prior to the Civil War and the reason was over tarrifs imposed by Washington, where Northern states had more power. The reason was because the South was financially superior due to cotton exports.
Where things get muddled is when you add in the fact that Europeans, when they colonized the agrarian South, the inexorably tied Slavery to the Southern economy.
A poor, but fairly accurate analogy would be if suddenly driving and owning a car were federally illegal. You think many might have a problem with that, and what would the implications be to our economy as millions struggled to get to work on substandard mass transit?
Was slavery a reason behind the Civil War? Sure but if you stop there or claim that is the main reasin, you're wrong and nieve.
 
2014-02-23 09:28:28 AM  

delathi: I was born in Alabama and live in Atlanta and I never did understand embracing the symbols of that 'heritage' "Yes! my ancestors were not only traitors, but they were losers too!"


Really?  How badly did you fail American History 101, exactly, that you can't think of any reasons why Atlanta in particular might have a bit more historical resistance to giving up their old symbol in favor of the US flag than most places?
 
2014-02-23 09:29:26 AM  

Richard C Stanford: Tyrone Slothrop: When a southerner talks about "states rights", remember the right they're talking about is the right to own other people.

It's political correctness gone mad, 1861 edition.


No it's not. It's succint. And factual.
 
2014-02-23 09:31:43 AM  
It's bad enough to see it on the occasional car around here. What's really stupid is having to drive by this place on my commute every day.

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/map/15177
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/15177
 
2014-02-23 09:33:01 AM  

Jim_Callahan: delathi: I was born in Alabama and live in Atlanta and I never did understand embracing the symbols of that 'heritage' "Yes! my ancestors were not only traitors, but they were losers too!"

Really?  How badly did you fail American History 101, exactly, that you can't think of any reasons why Atlanta in particular might have a bit more historical resistance to giving up their old symbol in favor of the US flag than most places?


Because Atlanta is full of ash holes?
 
2014-02-23 09:33:47 AM  

Burr: I am currently in the south....of France....and I saw a box truck with a rebel flag hung up behind the driver.

I laughed my ass off.  Then I went to work where there is a cartoon posted up on one of the doors where somebody put buck teeth and a ricer farmers hat on a stick figure....

/ahh, progressive Europe....


There are an unusually large number of shops in the touristy parts of Buenos Aires that sell confederate flags, many with poorly worded slogans on them like "The South rise again". I'm not sure if it is an anti-black thing (Argentinians as a whole are pretty light skinned and not very racially diverse), confusions about the history of the flag, or some kind of statement about "the South" but in their context, meaning South America instead of the southern United States. Then again there was also a large sign in the middle of a busy pedestrian boulevard of Uncle Sam giving directions to the nearest sex shop so who knows what goes through their minds when picking these things.

delathi: I was born in Alabama and live in Atlanta and I never did understand embracing the symbols of that 'heritage' "Yes! my ancestors were not only traitors, but they were losers too!"


Some people have so little in their own lives to be proud of or even to be ashamed of that they have to grab on to the accomplishments of long dead ancestors, even if those accomplishments involved losing for a terrible cause. Talking about how great granddaddy fought bravely at Shiloh sure beats telling everyone that you sat on the couch all weekend and wasted most of your meager paycheck on 9/11 commemorative coins.
 
2014-02-23 09:35:05 AM  
Is there something more constructive to do on the communes of the northwest than to smoke weed, not work, and attack the Confederate flag?
 
2014-02-23 09:35:18 AM  

jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: EvilEgg: It's racism pure and simple. If it wasn't the black folks would embrace the southern "heritage".

Much like the GLBT community took back the word "queer", I've often wondered what would happen if every black Southerner chose to display the Stars & Bars. Put it on their cars, their flagpoles, and homes as a symbol that they're never going to forget. Just ruin it as a symbol for white Southerners.


I am reminded of Henry Rollins' plan to destroy the KKK. Beautiful! :D
 
2014-02-23 09:36:10 AM  

GratuityIncluded: Is there something more constructive to do on the communes of the northwest than to smoke weed, not work, and attack the Confederate flag?


Celebrate the Super Bowl win?
 
2014-02-23 09:36:21 AM  
People who feel the need to display their personal beliefs for the world to see have always struck me as exceedingly insecure, but generally harmless. Some folks like to display symbols which they seem to feel project an aura of "challenge"(as in, "Yeah! You got something to say about it? Huh? Huh?"), and I think this symbol falls into that category. So I tend to think of people displaying the Confederate symbols on par with people with face and neck tattoos: Like the Far Side cartoon, nature's way of saying beware.:b
 
2014-02-23 09:38:26 AM  

Gunther: FTA:   "A brief American history": The civil war officially started on April 12th, 1861. Even before the cotton Jin, crops, primarily cotton were a huge money maker for the southern states. Due to the vast land and favorable conditions, land owners in the south could and did become extremely self sufficient; so much so they were able trade with other countries such as France, completely leaving the struggling industrialized north out of the picture. Hence fourth, the federal government began imposing unjust and rather high taxes on all international trade among many other things bringing forth the succession of several southern states. Sound familiar? You know it does Yankee Doodle! The emancipation proclamation was nothing other than a last ditch effort in 1863, to make those southern patriots fighting for their freedom and independence out to be war mongers guilty of crimes against humanity. It worked.

Man, Southern schools must teach the most absurdly false garbage about the civil war. So many times I've heard bullshiat like this from someone who honestly believed it because their eighth grade history teacher would surely never lie to them, right?

It's probably unnecessary to mention it on Fark, but the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States are the confederate states explaining why they seceded, in their own words. The reasons they give are slavery, slavery and slavery.


Not to mention the preceding 50 years or so of uneasy truce between the mercantile interests of the north and the agrarian interests of the south.

The civil war was built into our damned constitution.  As a solution to the slavery issue.  Apparently the founders thought twenty years, a generation, was enough time for southerners to figure out an alternative to owning people.  Apparently that wasn't enough.  And apparently 150 more years isn't enough for them to get over it.
 
2014-02-23 09:38:40 AM  
There were many flags flown by the Confederates. Yet these "Rebels" seem to prefer the stars and bars. I think that the south should recognize the most recent flag hoisted by their ancestoral army: the blank white field of surrender.
 
2014-02-23 09:38:47 AM  

Burr: I am currently in the south....of France....and I saw a box truck with a rebel flag hung up behind the driver.

I laughed my ass off.  Then I went to work where there is a cartoon posted up on one of the doors where somebody put buck teeth and a ricer farmers hat on a stick figure....

/ahh, progressive Europe....


Confederate flags are also used by "raggare" here in Sweden for some stupid reason.
 
2014-02-23 09:41:49 AM  
Wait, didn't you guys and gals in the Pacific Northwest enslave rape and murder all the native Americans living there? And yet you wave flags of your own and have a team called The Redskins. Long story short... Stop being a pretentious farking hypocrite. And fly the Confederate flag if you want , it's part of a ALL of our history.
 
2014-02-23 09:42:02 AM  
It was an armed insurrection.
They tried to kill the United States.
Eradicate their confederate fetish symbols, because those flags don't merely represent a kee-yuk, kee-yuk solidarity with good old boys.

/Lincoln and Grant were entirely too kind to the confederacyers.
 
2014-02-23 09:43:27 AM  

MagicMissile: Wait, didn't you guys and gals in the Pacific Northwest enslave rape and murder all the native Americans living there? And yet you wave flags of your own and have a team called The Redskins. Long story short... Stop being a pretentious farking hypocrite. And fly the Confederate flag if you want , it's part of a ALL of our history.


First thing I thought of.

/not a fan of Confederate flags either, but c'mon, son.
 
2014-02-23 09:44:55 AM  

MagicMissile: Wait, didn't you guys and gals in the Pacific Northwest enslave rape and murder all the native Americans living there? And yet you wave flags of your own and have a team called The Redskins. Long story short... Stop being a pretentious farking hypocrite. And fly the Confederate flag if you want , it's part of a ALL of our history.


A bad part of history.  Fly that flag, and civilized people will think ill of you.
 
2014-02-23 09:46:30 AM  
[redacted]: Gunther: FTA:   "A brief American history": The civil war officially started on April 12th, 1861. Even before the cotton Jin, crops, primarily cotton were a huge money maker for the southern states. Due to the vast land and favorable conditions, land owners in the south could and did become extremely self sufficient; so much so they were able trade with other countries such as France, completely leaving the struggling industrialized north out of the picture. Hence fourth, the federal government began imposing unjust and rather high taxes on all international trade among many other things bringing forth the succession of several southern states. Sound familiar? You know it does Yankee Doodle! The emancipation proclamation was nothing other than a last ditch effort in 1863, to make those southern patriots fighting for their freedom and independence out to be war mongers guilty of crimes against humanity. It worked.

Man, Southern schools must teach the most absurdly false garbage about the civil war. So many times I've heard bullshiat like this from someone who honestly believed it because their eighth grade history teacher would surely never lie to them, right?

It's probably unnecessary to mention it on Fark, but the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States are the confederate states explaining why they seceded, in their own words. The reasons they give are slavery, slavery and slavery.

I think it's your historical knowledge is the one lacking because the bolded type is accurate. At least one State seceded years prior to the Civil War and the reason was over tarrifs imposed by Washington, where Northern states had more power. The reason was because the South was financially superior due to cotton exports.
Where things get muddled is when you add in the fact that Europeans, when they colonized the agrarian South, the inexorably tied Slavery to the Southern economy.
A poor, but fairly accurate analogy would be if suddenly driving and owning a car were federally illeg ...


Looks like it's time for someone to double down. Yesterday, arguing why there's nothing wrong with new Jim Queer laws in Arizona, and now this.
 
2014-02-23 09:46:31 AM  

MagicMissile: Wait, didn't you guys and gals in the Pacific Northwest enslave rape and murder all the native Americans living there? And yet you wave flags of your own and have a team called The Redskins. Long story short... Stop being a pretentious farking hypocrite. And fly the Confederate flag if you want , it's part of a ALL of our history.


It's the Richard M. Nixon of flags.
 
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