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(Pajiba)   Who is the Yellow King? True Detective has been telling us all along, and we just haven't noticed. Link goes to informed theory/speculation, no spoilers   (pajiba.com) divider line 255
    More: Cool, True Detective, Yellow King, spoilers, yellow  
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4172 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 23 Feb 2014 at 12:37 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-22 10:55:01 PM  

vygramul: DamnYankees: vygramul: Just rewatching episode 5: "Tuttle died in 2010, right after Cohle came back into the state."

So Tuttle is dead before the interviews take place.

Which one? Aren't there two Tuttles? The guy they met in episode 1 who is doing the task force, and his cousin the governor? Who is the one who died, and how is the one suspected of being the Yellow King?

They said Billy Lee Tuttle, with is Jay O. Sanders' character.

It's odd, of course, because he's normally not someone to make cameos. Maybe another flashback will bring him into the story?


I've never heard of or seem this actor before, and I'm a tv and movie junkie. This dude can't be that famous.
 
2014-02-22 10:56:31 PM  

DamnYankees: This dude can't be that famous.


He's not what I'd call famous, but he's one of those "hey it's that guy" guys that's been a million TV shows and movies since forever.
 
2014-02-22 11:03:20 PM  

DamnYankees: vygramul: DamnYankees: vygramul: Just rewatching episode 5: "Tuttle died in 2010, right after Cohle came back into the state."

So Tuttle is dead before the interviews take place.

Which one? Aren't there two Tuttles? The guy they met in episode 1 who is doing the task force, and his cousin the governor? Who is the one who died, and how is the one suspected of being the Yellow King?

They said Billy Lee Tuttle, with is Jay O. Sanders' character.

It's odd, of course, because he's normally not someone to make cameos. Maybe another flashback will bring him into the story?

I've never heard of or seem this actor before, and I'm a tv and movie junkie. This dude can't be that famous.


He's not THAT big, but he was in Glory, Day After Tomorrow, Green Lantern, 9 episodes of Law & Order Criminal Intent, and a shiatload of guest appearances.
 
2014-02-22 11:04:14 PM  

DamnYankees: vygramul: DamnYankees: vygramul: Just rewatching episode 5: "Tuttle died in 2010, right after Cohle came back into the state."

So Tuttle is dead before the interviews take place.

Which one? Aren't there two Tuttles? The guy they met in episode 1 who is doing the task force, and his cousin the governor? Who is the one who died, and how is the one suspected of being the Yellow King?

They said Billy Lee Tuttle, with is Jay O. Sanders' character.

It's odd, of course, because he's normally not someone to make cameos. Maybe another flashback will bring him into the story?

I've never heard of or seem this actor before, and I'm a tv and movie junkie. This dude can't be that famous.


He doesn't do 10 second cameos in a show with this many nobodies. He's involved.
 
2014-02-22 11:19:24 PM  
 
2014-02-22 11:40:00 PM  

DamnYankees: vygramul: True, and that actually puts a damper on this 5-cops hypothesis. That seems too easy, too.

But I think there has to be a tie-in with that photo of 5 horseman. I remember they lingered on that for a while, and never talked about it. It's such a weird photo. It can't be random.


That actually may be a red herring. Iirc that was in Eunice, LA, and that was a depiction of how they celebrate Mardi Gras there. A photo like that, odd as it may seem out of context, would actually be fairly commonplace.
 
2014-02-22 11:52:21 PM  

Confabulat: I will say this show is a fine argument for watching a show as it is broadcast on TV and having to wait a week between installments.

If it had gone the Netflix route and all 8 episodes were immediately available, I'd have probably burned through them all in one sitting. Having to wait a week makes me think about the last episode, maybe rewatch it, come up with some silly theories and then debunk them, and just let it sit and marinate in my skull until the next one. It's very satisfying.


Yup. I was thinking the same thing after I binge watched the first 3 episodes to catch up cause everyone was raving about the show and I wanted to see what the fuss was about. With so many possible scenarios and red herrings being thrown out, really builds the anticipation. No Justified this week to distract just built it even more.

REALLY hoping lightening can strike twice with season 2. HBO has the benefit of the doubt and they either have another smash hit on their hands or a possible bottle rocket.

/ thinking maybe the daughter's newfound rebellion will play a big role in the conclusion.
 
2014-02-22 11:54:42 PM  
I haven't seen any episodes yet.

Are there spoilers in this thread?
 
2014-02-22 11:55:15 PM  

ksdanj: I haven't seen any episodes yet.

Are there spoilers in this thread?


For the episodes that have already aired, yes. Stop reading.
 
2014-02-22 11:58:41 PM  
vygramul:

Another alternative is of course that Marty actually did it - he's more farked up than Cole is.

Marty would make a much better answer. He was all farked up before the first guy, and he started slipping when his daughter became my kind of woman.


Not that I'm fully buying Marty is the guy, but here's a couple of things to ponder -
- Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp
           doing the killings with the Yellow King
- just before he aerates Ledoux's head, the camera hung for just a beat as the two shared a glance.  Did Ledoux
           recognize Marty?  Marty could have been brought along by FIL to one of those 'meetings' down in the
           swamp
- Marty is(was) a blonde, and the only really yellow blonde (if memory serves) in the cast
- the stars on the Lone Star cans are yellow and make the can figures' heads yellow as well
 
2014-02-23 12:02:38 AM  

elvisaintdead: - Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp
           doing the killings with the Yellow King


This is one of the reasons I really don't like the theory in TFA; it just reminds me of Hot Fuzz. This theory basically lets us propose a conspiracy theory whereby every powerful person in the storyline is part of a mass conspiracy to be in a cult? I'm not saying it can't be true, just that I don't see evidence of it, and that doesn't seem like the show I've been watching.
 
2014-02-23 12:06:46 AM  

DamnYankees: elvisaintdead: - Marty's F-I-L seems to be rich and powerful man - just the type that would be part of the group in the swamp
           doing the killings with the Yellow King

This is one of the reasons I really don't like the theory in TFA; it just reminds me of Hot Fuzz. This theory basically lets us propose a conspiracy theory whereby every powerful person in the storyline is part of a mass conspiracy to be in a cult? I'm not saying it can't be true, just that I don't see evidence of it, and that doesn't seem like the show I've been watching.


I hear you on that, and can't say I disagree - but something about their discussion at the lake house set off my radar and it's been kinda pinging ever since.  you're probably right - it is *very* convenient and obvious.
 
2014-02-23 12:20:58 AM  

DamnYankees: Honestly, this show seems most primed for a Zodiac-type ending, where we never find out who the killer is, since the whole point of the show is more about the lives of the people searching for the killer. Not even sure that'd annoy me.


The show creator is on record saying it's a show about an investigation, and nothing more.  So you could be on point.
 
2014-02-23 12:27:32 AM  

Blues_X: Blues_X: If anyone is interested, The King In Yellow for the kindle is free at Amazon.


Also, Project Gutenberg
 
2014-02-23 12:47:03 AM  
Is it me or has Matthew McConaughey really improved as an actor over the last few years? I used to see him as kind of a likeable but definitely one note performer but everything he's been in from Killer Joe on, he's been phenomenal.
 
2014-02-23 12:52:46 AM  

Snapper Carr: Is it me or has Matthew McConaughey really improved as an actor over the last few years? I used to see him as kind of a likeable but definitely one note performer but everything he's been in from Killer Joe on, he's been phenomenal.


I'm not sure if he's improved his acting (he's always been good, even in stupid or bad movies), so much as he seems to have decided to just take more interesting work. Maybe he got to a point where he said "I've made enough money, now I'm interested in exploring the art more".
 
2014-02-23 12:53:57 AM  

Snapper Carr: Is it me or has Matthew McConaughey really improved as an actor over the last few years? I used to see him as kind of a likeable but definitely one note performer but everything he's been in from Killer Joe on, he's been phenomenal.


It was obvious he was something magical in Dazed and Confused, but his role in Contact really hinted at something big.  Once he was in Amistad I knew he was going to have a long career.
 
2014-02-23 12:54:28 AM  
Oh, and lets not forget McConaughey's next movie - farking Interstellar with Christopher Nolan. So excited for that.
 
2014-02-23 12:58:22 AM  

Confabulat: I will say this show is a fine argument for watching a show as it is broadcast on TV and having to wait a week between installments.

If it had gone the Netflix route and all 8 episodes were immediately available, I'd have probably burned through them all in one sitting. Having to wait a week makes me think about the last episode, maybe rewatch it, come up with some silly theories and then debunk them, and just let it sit and marinate in my skull until the next one. It's very satisfying.


That's what I was thinking as well after buring through House of Cards season 2 in a weekend. There just wasn't time to mull over each of the episodes and discuss afterwards. In the case of True Detective, the amazing one-take scene at the end of episode 4 and the monologues of episode 5 wouldn't have had the same impact if I rush right into the revelations of the finale.
 
2014-02-23 01:08:23 AM  

DamnYankees: I just watched all 5 episodes in the last 24 hours. This show is a farking masterpiece. It's creepy and interesting and brilliantly acted. But so, so creepy.

I will say I don't love this theory - its a little too Hot Fuzz for me. But I like the symbolism.


Where are you watching them?  HBO doesn't seem to airing reruns.
 
2014-02-23 01:09:03 AM  

DamnYankees: vygramul: That was a great scene. I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.

You been watching him the last few years? He's turned into one of the best actors alive right now. Mud, Magic Mike, The Wolf of Wall Street are all farking great performances. He's also supposedly great in Killer Joe and Dallas Buyers Club but I haven't seen those.


I watched Dallas Buyers Club today and he was amazing in it, a very nuanced and physical performance, beyond just the weight loss, he put everything into the role. He just inhabited the role and made you forget the familiar actor. He's a lock for the Oscar, I think.
 
2014-02-23 01:09:42 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Where are you watching them?  HBO doesn't seem to airing reruns.

 HBO Go.
 
2014-02-23 01:10:07 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: DamnYankees: I just watched all 5 episodes in the last 24 hours. This show is a farking masterpiece. It's creepy and interesting and brilliantly acted. But so, so creepy.

I will say I don't love this theory - its a little too Hot Fuzz for me. But I like the symbolism.

Where are you watching them?  HBO doesn't seem to airing reruns.


They are on HBO Go and On Demand for most cable companies.
 
2014-02-23 01:14:44 AM  
 
2014-02-23 01:25:17 AM  

DamnYankees: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Where are you watching them?  HBO doesn't seem to airing reruns.
 HBO Go.


Thanks.

I can't believe The King in Yellow Mythos is basically going mainstream.  That, and that the theme song is by the handsome Family, are what got my attention.
 
2014-02-23 01:25:35 AM  
I think all signs lead to Hart. Even if he is not in on it there is someone in his inner circle who is ( Wife and/or Stepfather). I think when we find out why his oldest Daughter has been messed up in the head up since the get go we will find out who is the Yellow King. I think Harts wife knows more then she lets on.

I don't think Rust has anything to do with it and is just trying to find out what the heck is going on and who the killers are. But then agian Rust is majorly farked up( Hallucinations, Heavy Drug Use when undercover and pill popper in the early episodes, Very farked up former home life and work life when he worked narco),. Id be really surprised if it turns out Rust had anything to do with it. But still the guy has deep issues.

Im both bummed that there are only 3 episodes left but I want to see them dammit. But I agree its nice to have a week to chew on the episodes since they give you so much to think on

Great Show I hope it finishes off great that has me the most worried is how it will end
 
2014-02-23 01:28:12 AM  

ItchyMcDoogle: I think all signs lead to Hart. Even if he is not in on it there is someone in his inner circle who is ( Wife and/or Stepfather). I think when we find out why his oldest Daughter has been messed up in the head up since the get go we will find out who is the Yellow King. I think Harts wife knows more then she lets on.


I don't think this is it. TD so far has not shown itself to be the kind of show where they do this kind of "gotcha" twist. The family stuff is pretty straight up character drama; there's no additional explanation needed for 'why' his daughter is screwed up. They have a screwed up family. To introduce some plot line where they are actually involved in the murders would actually undermine the themes of the show.
 
2014-02-23 01:33:53 AM  

DamnYankees: ItchyMcDoogle: I think all signs lead to Hart. Even if he is not in on it there is someone in his inner circle who is ( Wife and/or Stepfather). I think when we find out why his oldest Daughter has been messed up in the head up since the get go we will find out who is the Yellow King. I think Harts wife knows more then she lets on.


I don't think this is it. TD so far has not shown itself to be the kind of show where they do this kind of "gotcha" twist. The family stuff is pretty straight up character drama; there's no additional explanation needed for 'why' his daughter is screwed up. They have a screwed up family. To introduce some plot line where they are actually involved in the murders would actually undermine the themes of the show.


Yeah but i've been thinking how he's been repeating " the answer is right under your nose and you cant see it" But I could be wrong..I just cant wait till tomorrow I DO know that much lol
 
2014-02-23 01:38:30 AM  
I mentioned this in a thread about Ukraine the other day but it still amuses me so I'll type it again. The other day I was talking on the phone to my 78-year-old Ukrainian mother about the protests going on over there and she hadn't heard the first thing about it. This didn't surprise me cause my mom is 78 years old and doesn't really keep up with current events; even 30 years ago she pretty much only watched daytime soap operas and Quincy, so you know, that's my sweet old clueless mom. So I was telling her about what I knew about events in Ukraine and I said something about how history repeats itself. Mom immediately replies, "Well it's like Rust Chole said in True Detective last week, time is like a flat circle" and my mind was blown.

I was like Mom did you just drop a Rust Chole quote on me in a conversation about a completely unrelated matter? My hippest friends aren't that hippy hip!

It's made me reassess everything I thought I knew about the woman. Now I need to get her to make me a mix tape or something.
 
2014-02-23 01:44:33 AM  
http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/why-does-true-detective-referen c e-the-work-of-a-self-published-poet

I thought this was pretty interesting too.

I went and saw Rashid Jennings exhibit at the MCA in Denver and a couple of his works made me think of this show.  I've been reading the King in Yellow too.  I'm crazy obsessed with this shiat.
 
2014-02-23 01:47:06 AM  
I'm also thinking there is a real horror element that will be revealed as the final episodes air.  If in fact the killer/killers/cult were only inspired by the real world Chambers and 'The King in Yellow', would it not make sense that the detectives would have made the connection to the murders, Chambers and his short story by now?

If the fiction of 'The King in Yellow' isn't real in the world of 'True Detective', it seems to me that the mythos might be very real in this world, and so far, investigations both past and present have never mentioned a connection to a book written in 1895.
 
2014-02-23 01:48:26 AM  

DamnYankees: naughtyrev: My take: we're in for the ultimate setup. This isn't a police/mystery drama, this is a horror series. The spaghetti guy chasing the girl was real. Rust sees the beast and that's what changes him.

I've seen this theory as well. That this is actually a fantasy/magical realism show which is just waiting a long time to show that side of itself. All I can say it that I'd find this unsatisfying.

I thought the "spaghetti man" was satisfying (and terrifyingly) dealt with in the final shot of episode 3, where we see Ledoux with the gas mask.


Ledoux also has a swastika made from an octopus on his chest, I think it's more Lovecraft imagery than anything else.  Now the kids over on reddit - who have way WAY too much time on their hands - have tied in Lovecraft, who uses Dagon as an Old God that looks like a fish, to a similar God in the bible. The philistines are worshipping Dagon (also a fish god) when Samson kills himself and all of them by bringing the temple down.  This story takes place in Judges 16:29 which also happens to be on the church wall in episode 2.  This is all part of some overarching fish cult theory and how Rust is going to sacrifice himself to help solve the case
 
2014-02-23 01:48:46 AM  

vygramul: I've never been a particular fan of McConaughey, but he's farking great in this and that scene is just an example of it.


He's moved past his pretty boy stage. Check out "Mud".
 
2014-02-23 01:50:40 AM  

Lord of the Highway: If in fact the killer/killers/cult were only inspired by the real world Chambers and 'The King in Yellow', would it not make sense that the detectives would have made the connection to the murders, Chambers and his short story by now?


In the 1990s timeline, the internet was still not entirely a thing and it's hard to imagine a bunch of Loiusiana cops being familiar with obscure works of horror from the 19th Century. Sure today Chole could just punch that girl's journal into Google and bingo, but 1990s Chole probably never would have thought of that.

So it actually might be harder to suspend disbelief if they *did* actually make the connection.
 
2014-02-23 01:53:55 AM  
What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.
 
2014-02-23 01:55:48 AM  
What do you guys think came out of this?

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2014-02-23 01:56:53 AM  

elguerodiablo: What do you guys think came out of this?

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x359]


Came out? Wasn't that just part of the decoration in the initial murder scene?
 
2014-02-23 01:58:52 AM  

DamnYankees: elguerodiablo: What do you guys think came out of this?

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x359]

Came out? Wasn't that just part of the decoration in the initial murder scene?


That scene was in 2002, years after the murder. That wreath spiral thing wasn't there then.

DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.


I don't think was a church, it was a Sunday School-type place. All the more reason to suspect the reverend.
 
2014-02-23 02:03:29 AM  

gilgigamesh: DamnYankees: vygramul: True, and that actually puts a damper on this 5-cops hypothesis. That seems too easy, too.

But I think there has to be a tie-in with that photo of 5 horseman. I remember they lingered on that for a while, and never talked about it. It's such a weird photo. It can't be random.

That actually may be a red herring. Iirc that was in Eunice, LA, and that was a depiction of how they celebrate Mardi Gras there. A photo like that, odd as it may seem out of context, would actually be fairly commonplace.


I am actually from Eunice (getting a kick), and that photo was not at all odd to me. They did their homework there, it's authentic.

The scene with the abandoned church was a bit off though, no way that was shot anywhere near Eunice. Still, it's clear the writers have spent some time in the area. It's very well done.
 
2014-02-23 02:03:49 AM  

DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.


Devil Traps can be used as wards or as spell amplifiers.  I just took it to show that a ritual had taken place there and to show Rust that the cult was still active.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/true-detective/232572/jinx-dawson-of-cove n- recognizes-devil-trap-from-hbo-s-true-detective
 
2014-02-23 02:05:03 AM  

Confabulat: In the 1990s timeline, the internet was still not entirely a thing and it's hard to imagine a bunch of Loiusiana cops being familiar with obscure works of horror from the 19th Century. Sure today Chole could just punch that girl's journal into Google and bingo, but 1990s Chole probably never would have thought of that.

So it actually might be harder to suspend disbelief if they *did* actually make the connection.


I agree regarding the 90's timeline.  But with so much screen time spent in the present... with the questioning/interrogations of Hart and Cohle by Gilbough and Papina, one might think it would have been brought up in the connection to the most recent ritual killing that they seem pretty clueless on, other than thinking Cohle may be the killer.
 
2014-02-23 02:05:12 AM  

elguerodiablo: DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.

Devil Traps can be used as wards or as spell amplifiers.  I just took it to show that a ritual had taken place there and to show Rust that the cult was still active.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/true-detective/232572/jinx-dawson-of-cove n- recognizes-devil-trap-from-hbo-s-true-detective


So we're assuming there is a real cult now? Not just 2-3 nut jobs?
 
2014-02-23 02:06:02 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
They obviously don't figure it out, this guy is still looking for the King in Yellow 38,000 years later...

/didn't realize it was a literary reference until people started talking about it in connection to this show
//Shouldn't be surprised I guess, a good chunk of the stuff that shows up in the book in question is...
///I guess if it's free on Kindle I may as well give it a read while Abnett drags his feet on the next Eisenhorn/Ravenor book...
////possibly obscure?
 
2014-02-23 02:15:46 AM  

DamnYankees: elguerodiablo: DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.

Devil Traps can be used as wards or as spell amplifiers.  I just took it to show that a ritual had taken place there and to show Rust that the cult was still active.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/true-detective/232572/jinx-dawson-of-cove n- recognizes-devil-trap-from-hbo-s-true-detective

So we're assuming there is a real cult now? Not just 2-3 nut jobs?


Yeah going by what Charlie Lange said about the group of rich men doing satanic sacrifices in the woods.
 
2014-02-23 02:16:22 AM  

DamnYankees: elguerodiablo: DamnYankees: What do people make of the plot significance of the last scene of the most recent episode, with Rust going through the church and then finding all those devil catchers. What this supposed to be a plot twist? I was confused what we were supposed to think that meant, narratively.

Devil Traps can be used as wards or as spell amplifiers.  I just took it to show that a ritual had taken place there and to show Rust that the cult was still active.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/true-detective/232572/jinx-dawson-of-cove n- recognizes-devil-trap-from-hbo-s-true-detective

So we're assuming there is a real cult now? Not just 2-3 nut jobs?


I'd say there's at least 5 guys in on it.  That's why we keep seeing that number pop up and all the mentions of the stars.  I also think that Rust is getting a feel for whether these guys talking to him are part of it, he asks them how they kept it out of the papers then calls them company men and walks out.  I think the article has some merit.
 
2014-02-23 02:25:51 AM  

HawgWild: I haven't watched the show yet, and I deliberately avoid anything written about it.

I take it I should start watching ...


You should. McConaughey could very well be the first person in 20 years to win an Oscar and an Emmy in the same year.
 
2014-02-23 02:36:15 AM  

elguerodiablo: What do you guys think came out of this?

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x359]


Because it appeared hollow inside the hole, rather than just a wreath on a solid surface, am wondering if it's an Alice-in-Wonderland metaphor, inviting, tempting, luring and warning its intended audience (cops?  Cohle specifically?) that those who dare enter the killer's world are in for some seriously bizarre shiat.
 
2014-02-23 03:17:11 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-23 05:36:14 AM  
SPOILER if you haven't seen any of it:


I think everyone involved in the "circle" has been watching Rust for years; hoping that he - this super keen existential mess will ultimately clean up their network of unwanteds and hopefully by way of all the killing he himself could be edged into doing become one of them.  I also think the King himself changes; it's just a title after all - at one point Tuttle might have been the king but Rust probably took him out but that immediately someone else took his place; maybe Rust himself is in unknown contention for the Crown; that the darker forces have been as aware of him as he's been of them and all along they've all but rooted for him knowing their network is too large for him to do anything but destroy himself against.

This is the best show I've seen in years - hours before it's on I can hardly stand it then I can hardly sleep after seeing it.  Three more weeks!
 
2014-02-23 05:58:55 AM  
Hart does say that everybody in those parts has a religion.

He just doesn't say what kind.
 
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