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(UPI)   Detroit's emergency manager submits plan to bankruptcy court. Burning it to the ground and salting the ashes so nothing will ever grow there again apparently left out of the plan   (upi.com) divider line 66
    More: Interesting, Detroit, emergency manager, bankruptcy court, Die Another Day, Detroit Institute of Arts, Orr  
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1742 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2014 at 1:20 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-22 01:26:22 PM  
wow, bashing Detroit.  how original.
 
2014-02-22 01:27:29 PM  
Actually, they should sell it to Canada.
.
..
...
Southern Ontario needs a new garbage dump.
 
2014-02-22 01:27:49 PM  
Coming soon to the whole of the US.
 
2014-02-22 01:31:54 PM  
DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

www.secondchance.org
 
2014-02-22 01:33:29 PM  
Michigan should give Detroit back to the French, and then write it off on the federal return.

/native for 40 years before I got out.
 
2014-02-22 01:33:31 PM  
Detroit's actually not that bad. Or maybe I've just ren jaded by the shiathole that is Orlando.
 
2014-02-22 01:41:48 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]




Anyone that didn't see this coming, especially those who worked for the city was willfully ignorant. The fact the pension fund was underfunded and had ridiculous unrealistic obligations has been common knowledge in the city for many years. People still bought into the system with their eyes wide shut.

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were in for, I say let 'em crash.
 
2014-02-22 01:44:25 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Detroit's actually not that bad. Or maybe I've just ren jaded by the shiathole that is Orlando.


yea, Orlando is bad but its a tourist trap. I hope Detroit gets back on the road to recovery soon, its a national disgrace to be honest.
 
2014-02-22 01:44:30 PM  
memecrunch.com
 
2014-02-22 01:46:19 PM  

lazymojo: wow, bashing Detroit.  how original.


I visited Wayne State (midtown) a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed - that area is really on the way up since the last time i'd been there (~15 years ago). Quite a few new and nice restaurants, lots of new construction... I would have absolutely no problem living around there. cheers
 
2014-02-22 01:46:26 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]



Anyone that didn't see this coming, especially those who worked for the city was willfully ignorant. The fact the pension fund was underfunded and had ridiculous unrealistic obligations has been common knowledge in the city for many years. People still bought into the system with their eyes wide shut.

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were in for, I say let 'em crash.


Hey look, the guy's a Farker!

/fark'em, you got yours huh?
 
2014-02-22 01:46:29 PM  
Detroit has suffered several decades of mismanagement. Most cities are mismanaged, though. The big difference is that few of the big cities suffer the kind of extended decline Detroit's seen. Meanwhile, at no level of government, over the years, did anyone do enough to make a difference.

The problem here is mostly that politicians generally don't care what happens after they're out of office. Some of them don't care what happens after the election is over. The idea of honestly planning for what might happen twenty years down the line does not concern them.

Detroit made pension promises based on numbers that were known to be unrealistic -- even if the city's economic decline hadn't accelerated. It's not fair to make those promises and then not pay up. But there's no money to pay up. Those promises were bullshiat. That's the problem. It's not so much that the politicians are being dicks now. It's that the politicians who promised those pensions to stay in office were dicks. They knew they wouldn't be around to make excuses now.
 
2014-02-22 01:50:40 PM  
Build a huge wall around it and make it a reservation for juggalos?
 
2014-02-22 01:54:48 PM  
Please. Where are they going to scrape up the cash in the budget for the salt?
 
2014-02-22 01:58:19 PM  

"Detroit's emergency manager submits plan to bankruptcy court. "


popcultureblog.dallasnews.com

 
2014-02-22 02:01:44 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]


OMG, it's like a promise that can't be kept... won't be! How could anyone have anticipated this?

/more importantly, who can we blame for it?
//because we refuse to take the blame, just because we voted against anyone that didn't promise us lifetime economic security
///we even accepted the most ridiculous lies, so there's really no excuse for being honest just because you wanted to fix the economy
 
2014-02-22 02:03:40 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]




They are/were civil servants so busting their ass is/was never part of the equation.
Besides it is not like they cut future military pensions instead of closing tax loopholes for illegal aliens.
 
2014-02-22 02:05:52 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."


It's why everyone should have been on IRAs, build up capital to buy an annuity at retirement.
 
2014-02-22 02:13:17 PM  

wildcardjack: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's why everyone should have been on IRAs, build up capital to buy an annuity at retirement.


And when the company that you bought that annuity from goes bankrupt? Or when the company that you bought that annuity from gets bought by another company that then goes bankrupt?
 
Basically you are now relying on the state or federal government to step in and guarantee your annuity.

My grandmother bought life insurance in 1938. The company went bankrupt in 2008. SOL.
 
2014-02-22 02:21:26 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]


Looting the pension fund and blaming the victims as "having unrealistic expectations" is hardly new.  It's the same as the decades long push for privatization of all retirement options from Social Security to retirement funds.  Throw your money into the blender and let the already-rich steal most of it, then be surprised when it's not there as you retire.

I fully expect by the time I am supposed to retire they'll have found a way to devour my 401(k)s and I'll just work 'till I die.
 
2014-02-22 02:22:56 PM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-02-22 02:33:03 PM  
Tatterdemalian:

OMG, it's like a promise that can't be kept.e made is a promise that should be kept.
 
2014-02-22 02:34:35 PM  

TheBigJerk: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

[www.secondchance.org image 500x307]

Looting the pension fund and blaming the victims as "having unrealistic expectations" is hardly new.  It's the same as the decades long push for privatization of all retirement options from Social Security to retirement funds.  Throw your money into the blender and let the already-rich steal most of it, then be surprised when it's not there as you retire.

I fully expect by the time I am supposed to retire they'll have found a way to devour my 401(k)s and I'll just work 'till I die.


The workers are the ones who looted it.

http://www.freep.com/article/20131002/NEWS01/310020022/Detroit-13th- ch eck-pension-General-Retirement-System

An affidavit reveals details for the first time on the nearly $1 billion in controversial 13th check payouts authorized by one of Detroit's two pension funds.
The city's General Retirement System board - which is controlled by an independent board that is challenging Detroit's eligibility to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy - acknowledged in an affidavit that it gave out $756.2 million in excess earnings to active employees from 1985 through 2007. It gave $195 million to retirees during that same time period and sent $445.3 million back to the city.
The affidavit surfaced Tuesday in a court filing by Detroit attorneys who are seeking to block a labor union's attempt to resurrect the pension board's right to distribute 13th checks, which the City Council banned in November 2011.


fark them.

/Plus you know, the plane's been crashing for 50 years.  They knew it was going to hit the ground at some point.
 
2014-02-22 02:35:25 PM  
How many IRAs were wiped out by the economic collapse in 2008?
 
2014-02-22 02:39:19 PM  

red5ish: How many IRAs were wiped out by the economic collapse in 2008?


If they were able to sit on most of that money for an extra 3 years?   Zero.

So however many people had to pull EVERYTHING out of their retirement come 2008.

/Seriously, we crashed from 11K to 7K, and then went right on rolling, so now we're at 16K.
//Stupidest recession ever.
 
2014-02-22 02:39:27 PM  
Sources say they've already ordered those massive fences for plan "thunderdome"...
 
2014-02-22 02:48:41 PM  

dsmith42: wildcardjack: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's why everyone should have been on IRAs, build up capital to buy an annuity at retirement.

And when the company that you bought that annuity from goes bankrupt? Or when the company that you bought that annuity from gets bought by another company that then goes bankrupt?

Basically you are now relying on the state or federal government to step in and guarantee your annuity.

My grandmother bought life insurance in 1938. The company went bankrupt in 2008. SOL.


It's her fault for not planning ahead. She really should've seen that coming.
 
2014-02-22 03:15:32 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."


It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.
 
2014-02-22 03:21:00 PM  
Slash pensions and health benefits for retirees whose pensions for most top out at $34K because there is no money.  But make sure the bondholders (i.e., the banks) get made whole.  And also float $295 million in bonds to help finance an arena for an ice hockey team owned by a billionaire.  That sounds fair and equitable.
 
2014-02-22 03:27:47 PM  

dsmith42: wildcardjack: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's why everyone should have been on IRAs, build up capital to buy an annuity at retirement.

And when the company that you bought that annuity from goes bankrupt? Or when the company that you bought that annuity from gets bought by another company that then goes bankrupt?

Basically you are now relying on the state or federal government to step in and guarantee your annuity.

My grandmother bought life insurance in 1938. The company went bankrupt in 2008. SOL.


And those relying on the government of Detroit are SOL because it too is insolvent. What's the improvement there? If you want a more reliable source, deposit the funds with an institution that would be insured by something a federal entity like the FDIC, which would regulate that institution to mitigate risk. Ultimately, if the institution went under, the insurer would make the pension accounts whole the same way as is done with failing financial institutions.  It's not an ideal solution, but nothing in life is.
 
2014-02-22 03:29:33 PM  
They really need to sell off much of what is in their art museum. It appears to only be used by a small percentage of the people that live there and in the (unlikely) event the money is used wisely, the city might come out of this mess.
 
2014-02-22 03:32:06 PM  

runwiz: Slash pensions and health benefits for retirees whose pensions for most top out at $34K because there is no money.  But make sure the bondholders (i.e., the banks) get made whole.  And also float $295 million in bonds to help finance an arena for an ice hockey team owned by a billionaire.  That sounds fair and equitable.


If you screw the bondholders, better make sure you never need to borrow again, because you won't be able to. Or if you are, you'll be paying nosebleed prices with draconian terms. And that goes for any other city that looks like it might be another Detroit: once the precedent is set, the lenders will either charge them extortionate rates or stop buying their paper altogether.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-02-22 03:36:56 PM  
jjorsett

Corporate pensions can be insured by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. In my area, corporate raiders bought a company, looted the assets, and had the remnants declare bankruptcy to unload pensions onto the government.
 
2014-02-22 04:25:37 PM  
Can't we just melt down the place and get it over with? Preferably with the Juggalos still inside, and Rodriguez whisked away to safety in Chicago so we can finally hear that new album.
 
2014-02-22 04:28:44 PM  

wjllope: lazymojo: wow, bashing Detroit.  how original.

I visited Wayne State (midtown) a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed - that area is really on the way up since the last time i'd been there (~15 years ago). Quite a few new and nice restaurants, lots of new construction... I would have absolutely no problem living around there. cheers


Considering that option right now. Thinking about grad school at Wayne State.Good school, but they seem desperate for students. Probably due to the reputation of the D.
 
2014-02-22 04:45:52 PM  

jjorsett: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.


www.boatinternational.com

But you old men are such whingers.
 
2014-02-22 04:47:40 PM  

jjorsett: dsmith42: wildcardjack: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's why everyone should have been on IRAs, build up capital to buy an annuity at retirement.

And when the company that you bought that annuity from goes bankrupt? Or when the company that you bought that annuity from gets bought by another company that then goes bankrupt?

Basically you are now relying on the state or federal government to step in and guarantee your annuity.

My grandmother bought life insurance in 1938. The company went bankrupt in 2008. SOL.

And those relying on the government of Detroit are SOL because it too is insolvent. What's the improvement there? If you want a more reliable source, deposit the funds with an institution that would be insured by something a federal entity like the FDIC, which would regulate that institution to mitigate risk. Ultimately, if the institution went under, the insurer would make the pension accounts whole the same way as is done with failing financial institutions.  It's not an ideal solution, but nothing in life is.


Legal dope. Grow paradise.
 
2014-02-22 04:55:47 PM  

jjorsett: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.


He's already posted his "solution" several times. Unfortunately, the only thing his "solution" will solve is "living in poverty," and it will solve it by putting and end to the "living" part, not the "poverty" part.

/you can't fix a problem if your beliefs are too strong to admit the cause exists
//it's like trying to cure the plague by applying rat-fed leeches to the victims
 
2014-02-22 05:16:38 PM  

Tatterdemalian: jjorsett: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.

He's already posted his "solution" several times. Unfortunately, the only thing his "solution" will solve is "living in poverty," and it will solve it by putting and end to the "living" part, not the "poverty" part.

/you can't fix a problem if your beliefs are too strong to admit the cause exists
//it's like trying to cure the plague by applying rat-fed leeches to the victims




t2.gstatic.com
 
2014-02-22 05:48:41 PM  
I got out of Detroit 21 years ago.  Won't live there again if I can help it.

Not too long ago my mom drove me and my son to downtown Detroit.  As we were going down Woodward, I looked down the side streets...and got depressed.

Detroit used to be a really nice city.

/yay for ne ohio
 
2014-02-22 05:58:11 PM  
How come the stranded cat story (below this one) has been closed to comments and doesn't have any comments? Did someone say something mean about cats on caturday?
 
2014-02-22 06:50:42 PM  

jjorsett: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.


How about NOT f*cking over the elderly who had worked all their lives and paid into their pension system fair & square. Can we at least agree on that one, Mister Koch?
 
2014-02-22 07:03:52 PM  

TV's Vinnie: jjorsett: TV's Vinnie: DETROIT, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The plan offered by Detroit's emergency manager Friday to return the city to solvency includes cutting retired city workers' pensions by a third.

What a lovely work incentive. "Bust your ass all your life and pray that sometime down the road when you're retired and at your most vulnerable that we don't slash up your pension and alter the deal."

It's easy to biatch and criticize. If you know of a better solution, let's hear it.

How about NOT f*cking over the elderly who had worked all their lives and paid into their pension system fair & square. Can we at least agree on that one, Mister Koch?


They got paid.

In 13th checks.

meyerkev:
http://www.freep.com/article/20131002/NEWS01/310020022/Detroit-13th- ch eck-pension-General-Retirement-System

An affidavit reveals details for the first time on the nearly $1 billion in controversial 13th check payouts authorized by one of Detroit's two pension funds.
The city's General Retirement System board - which is controlled by an independent board that is challenging Detroit's eligibility to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy - acknowledged in an affidavit that it gave out $756.2 million in excess earnings to active employees from 1985 through 2007. It gave $195 million to retirees during that same time period and sent $445.3 million back to the city.
The affidavit surfaced Tuesday in a court filing by Detroit attorneys who are seeking to block a labor union's attempt to resurrect the pension board's right to distribute 13th checks, which the City Council banned in November 2011.


Seriously, FARK THEM.

/Like we're going to screw the workers in CA because we have no choice (The math on "Pay someone their highest salary (and SS and Medic*) for 20-25 years after they work for a much lower average salary for 40" doesn't work) and I'm going to feel sorry for them.  Ok, given their ridiculous salaries leading to ridiculous pensions, only a little bit, but still sorta sorry.  But if it's a choice between cops or pensions, I'm choosing cops.  And when Menlo Park is feeling the pain, you know the Central Valley towns are just farked.
//And we're going to screw over the Illinois workers because of hilarious corruption and literally unaffordable benefits that everyone knew were never going to get paid out and I'm not going to feel sorry for them because they knew the plane was crashing when they got on and actively worked to crash it.
///But FARK the detroit workers.
 
2014-02-22 07:14:12 PM  

jjorsett: runwiz: Slash pensions and health benefits for retirees whose pensions for most top out at $34K because there is no money.  But make sure the bondholders (i.e., the banks) get made whole.  And also float $295 million in bonds to help finance an arena for an ice hockey team owned by a billionaire.  That sounds fair and equitable.

If you screw the bondholders, better make sure you never need to borrow again, because you won't be able to. Or if you are, you'll be paying nosebleed prices with draconian terms. And that goes for any other city that looks like it might be another Detroit: once the precedent is set, the lenders will either charge them extortionate rates or stop buying their paper altogether.


Actually, the bondholders are getting screwed relative to the retirees. The bondholders get 20 cents on the dollar. The civil service retirees get pensions cut by 34%. But the police only loose 10%. Apparently the judge is worried about being harassed by the boys in blue and decided to play nice.

/Just speculating, I did not read beyond the article.
//The article says that there exist a chance for a 26%/4% cut to civil/police pensions if the plaintiffs agree to his settlement
///WTF is up with always paying out the police pensions
 
2014-02-22 07:21:50 PM  

meyerkev: (lots of stupid words)



You sure seem to hate people who paid into their retirement fair & square and only want to live out their few remaining years in dignity.

IMO, paying into a pension is like a binding contract. If I pay my payments without fail year after year, then when the time comes for retirement, I expect to receive my FULL pension as YOUR part of the deal.
 
2014-02-22 07:28:45 PM  

dsmith42: jjorsett: runwiz: Slash pensions and health benefits for retirees whose pensions for most top out at $34K because there is no money.  But make sure the bondholders (i.e., the banks) get made whole.  And also float $295 million in bonds to help finance an arena for an ice hockey team owned by a billionaire.  That sounds fair and equitable.

...

///WTF is up with always paying out the police pensions



They have guns
 
2014-02-22 07:33:57 PM  

TV's Vinnie: meyerkev: (lots of stupid words)


You sure seem to hate people who paid into their retirement fair & square and only want to live out their few remaining years in dignity.

IMO, paying into a pension is like a binding contract. If I pay my payments without fail year after year, then when the time comes for retirement, I expect to receive my FULL pension as YOUR part of the deal.


They already got paid.

Read the article.   $750 Million to current, ACTIVE employees.

And besides, that money did not exist.

http://www.freep.com/interactive/article/20130915/NEWS01/130801004/D et roit-Bankruptcy-history-1950-debt-pension-revenue

www.freep.com

www.freep.com
www.freep.com

www.freep.com
 
2014-02-22 07:41:43 PM  

Poldana: wjllope: lazymojo: wow, bashing Detroit.  how original.

I visited Wayne State (midtown) a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed - that area is really on the way up since the last time i'd been there (~15 years ago). Quite a few new and nice restaurants, lots of new construction... I would have absolutely no problem living around there. cheers

Considering that option right now. Thinking about grad school at Wayne State.Good school, but they seem desperate for students. Probably due to the reputation of the D.


What subject area?
 
2014-02-22 07:54:51 PM  
Pay attention. How they run this bankruptcy for Detroit is how it will go for the other big cities teetering on the brink.
 
2014-02-22 08:00:16 PM  

TV's Vinnie: meyerkev: (lots of stupid words)


You sure seem to hate people who paid into their retirement fair & square and only want to live out their few remaining years in dignity.

IMO, paying into a pension is like a binding contract. If I pay my payments without fail year after year, then when the time comes for retirement, I expect to receive my FULL pension as YOUR part of the deal.


Just like people paying into a Ponzi scheme expect to receive their full investment back, with the interest promised.

/except they don't
//the people running the scheme can be sent to jail, and in Detroit's case, has been
///but the money is still gone, and you don't get to beat up and rob random people in revenge
 
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