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(Birmingham Post)   Western workers increasingly welcome jobs back as far-east outsourcing is becoming more expensive, with poor quality control and impossible logistics, than just doing the work at home   (birminghampost.co.uk) divider line 58
    More: Obvious, work at home, West Midlands, logistics, David Keene, CNC Machine, land rover, medium-sized business, Rail transport modelling  
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1857 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Feb 2014 at 1:19 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-22 12:30:03 PM
So all of this offshoring wasn't such a great idea after all?
 
2014-02-22 12:59:59 PM
It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.
 
2014-02-22 01:00:01 PM
My gawds whodathunkit.

What a complete shocker.
 
2014-02-22 01:21:13 PM
About farking time.  It's not just the loss of jobs that outsourcing kills, it's the growth of talent.  How are people supposed to get experienced without entry-level jobs?

I was fortunate when I started on the helpdesk (1997).  Y2K was around the corner, the internet was beginning to boom, and IT growth was huge...  That entry-level experience has given me a very good and lucrative career.  It would be extremely difficult for someone starting now to be able to get that first job, not to mention all of the intermediate jobs required to get to a senior-level.

It's depressing...
 
2014-02-22 01:22:52 PM
So it took more the 30 decades, but they finally figured out that the Chinese don't have a respect for intellectual property?
 
2014-02-22 01:26:34 PM
Oh No, you cant bring back ALL of the manufacturing.

There are still some trade secrets you haven't given away yet!

Nice going dumbasses...
 
2014-02-22 01:47:15 PM
Annnnnnnd here's why I've added "Jackasses with MBAs" to the list of "People Dan disdains on general principles."

/Also on the list: cops, car salesmen, elected officials, cops, ambulance chasing reporters ("How did you feel when you came across the charred remains of your children?"), and cops.
 
2014-02-22 01:48:40 PM
I've told this story before, so bear with me...

My brother's former employer moved surimi-fake crab production from the US to China about 20 years ago, and then back to the US when their contract expired in China. The lower direct cost of production didn't make up for the added expense of shipping the product there (generally from Alaska), the spoilage and waste at the China plant, the long and unreliable transport across the pond, and finally the returns from customers here in the States. He no longer works for them, but afaik it's still made in Washington state. /csb

/won't bother going into the horror stories of business friends who've had their stuff ripped off by China "partner" firms
 
2014-02-22 01:51:21 PM
Here comes the the new buzzword for 2014: reshoring.
/Me likes.
 
2014-02-22 02:09:46 PM

rkiller1: Here comes the the new buzzword for 2014: reshoring.
/Me likes.


They've called it homeshoring for a couple years now.
 
2014-02-22 02:09:53 PM
Wait, surrendering your own economy and intellectual property to gain another 3 shekels is a bad idea?

Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.
 
2014-02-22 02:12:59 PM

DanInKansas: Annnnnnnd here's why I've added "Jackasses with MBAs" to the list of "People Dan disdains on general principles."

/Also on the list: cops, car salesmen, elected officials, cops, ambulance chasing reporters ("How did you feel when you came across the charred remains of your children?"), and cops.


Go read some Nassim Taleb. He'll convince you we need a hunting season for rutting MBAs.
 
2014-02-22 02:25:38 PM
I'm sure there are some third world countries they haven't exploited yet.
 
2014-02-22 02:26:01 PM
Great, but now no one knows how to do the jobs you took away from them 20-30 years ago, so a whole new generation has to be trained from scratch.  Meanwhile, what did those cost savings do for you in labor for all those years?  Nothing, because that's what everybody did.  You just made China richer and lined a bunch of top exec's poc eats.  Gee, that's swell.
 
2014-02-22 02:26:10 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: So it took more the 30 decades, but they finally figured out that the Chinese don't have a respect for intellectual property?


this times a million.
 
2014-02-22 02:55:08 PM

some_beer_drinker: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: So it took more the 30 decades, but they finally figured out that the Chinese don't have a respect for intellectual property?

this times a million.


Geez, you'd think they could figure this out before 30 decades had passed. Seems the damned Chinese were already stealin' our shiat in the 17th century. Farkers!
 
2014-02-22 02:56:29 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: So it took more the 30 decades, but they finally figured out that the Chinese don't have a respect for intellectual property?


Did you mean 3 decades?
 
2014-02-22 02:59:14 PM
Quality fade.

One of the many delightful terms to come out of the Chinee Capers. Their motto (with one another as well): "Let me diddle you before you can figure out how to cheat me."

It's the Curse of the Three "C"s: Communism, Culture and Corruption.

/ Anybody thinking about investing in China, I just tell them to take the money and throw a huge party for their management and employees. It will be much more rewarding and profitable in the long run, even with the horror-hangovers.

// And no humiliation from getting ripped off by a) partners b) local government c) worker/mafia d) Beijing e) real mafia.
 
2014-02-22 03:16:45 PM

vpb: So all of this offshoring wasn't such a great idea after all?


It was awesome for the executives that got their fat bonuses for cutting jobs and costs at the time.

Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.

I'm looking at you Carly F.
 
2014-02-22 03:34:34 PM
Clinton's folly
 
2014-02-22 03:35:48 PM
Step 1: ship jobs overseas to save money.
Step 2: collect bonus check
Step 3: bring jobs back to the states and call it growth
Step 4: collect bonus check
Step 5: go to Step 1
 
2014-02-22 04:10:32 PM

vpb: So all of this offshoring wasn't such a great idea after all?


if the idiots had really wanted to save money they'd have automated, not offshored
 
2014-02-22 04:13:07 PM
Nemo's Brother:" Clinton's folly "

This is just one of many reasons I have you favorited as "right wing dickface".
 
2014-02-22 04:14:09 PM

Nemo's Brother: Clinton's folly


At half the rate they're coming back.  Nice going President Clinton.  Let's elect his wife now too!  Walmart Board of Directors, wasn't it?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-22 04:16:14 PM

Nemo's Brother: Clinton's folly



not completely, but after all the garment industry had already fled for cheaper shores
 
2014-02-22 04:27:12 PM
A friend of mine who did some outsourcing to a manufacturing plant in China said it was his worst nightmare. He did not downsize here, the outsourcing was supposed to cover additional business. After two years of headaches, constantly over in China, etc. he flew in the management from the China plant who were threatening to sue over him over dropping the contract early. He asked them to go through the US line, then made them sit/check out/view the difference in quality between the two exact same products, one US, the other China. He said that they just didn't get it saying that they were saving him money.
 
2014-02-22 04:35:33 PM
It also can go the other way. The local gas utility was the 3rd largest pump maker in the world at one time. The ex-CEO from the 90's was talking in a radio interview about how awful the US factories were. He was touring facilities and had workers in (San Diego?) who got to go to Kansas City to a closing facility and pick out upgrades to their equipment. When he visited them, a crew of six came over to thank him about how much better their new (milling?) machine was. He said that he was shocked to see that it had a plaque on it saying (from my memory) Canadian War Production Board, 1940. He said that going into the Chinese facility, there was one man working on a computer putting out better quality.

Not sure what happened after that, I could not listen to the interview as my commute to work was over.
 
2014-02-22 04:49:51 PM

exvaxman: It also can go the other way. The local gas utility was the 3rd largest pump maker in the world at one time. The ex-CEO from the 90's was talking in a radio interview about how awful the US factories were. He was touring facilities and had workers in (San Diego?) who got to go to Kansas City to a closing facility and pick out upgrades to their equipment. When he visited them, a crew of six came over to thank him about how much better their new (milling?) machine was. He said that he was shocked to see that it had a plaque on it saying (from my memory) Canadian War Production Board, 1940. He said that going into the Chinese facility, there was one man working on a computer putting out better quality.

Not sure what happened after that, I could not listen to the interview as my commute to work was over.


So you couldn't be a few minutes late for work so you could tell us what happened? Next time think of us.
 
2014-02-22 05:00:58 PM
img.pandawhale.com
 
2014-02-22 05:07:39 PM
Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!

Outsourced ourselves back into third-world status.
 
2014-02-22 05:31:08 PM
img.fark.net
Intellectual property rights not strongly protected in some countries. Looky at this B-Jing-W.
The Ultimate Driving Thing.
 
2014-02-22 06:17:14 PM

Kurmudgeon: Nemo's Brother:" Clinton's folly "

This is just one of many reasons I have you favorited as "right wing dickface".


It's true, Your Honor.
 
2014-02-22 06:18:24 PM

exvaxman: It also can go the other way. The local gas utility was the 3rd largest pump maker in the world at one time. The ex-CEO from the 90's was talking in a radio interview about how awful the US factories were. He was touring facilities and had workers in (San Diego?) who got to go to Kansas City to a closing facility and pick out upgrades to their equipment. When he visited them, a crew of six came over to thank him about how much better their new (milling?) machine was. He said that he was shocked to see that it had a plaque on it saying (from my memory) Canadian War Production Board, 1940. He said that going into the Chinese facility, there was one man working on a computer putting out better quality.

Not sure what happened after that, I could not listen to the interview as my commute to work was over.


That sounds like a business that was paying out all of its profits instead of reinvesting in infrastructure.

So again, not the fault of labour, but of management.
 
2014-02-22 06:32:34 PM
Stone Meadow:
Geez, you'd think they could figure this out before 30 decades had passed. Seems the damned Chinese were already stealin' our shiat in the 17th century. Farkers!

Gergesa:
Did you mean 3 decades?


How dare you point out my stupidity when I was clearly being stupid!?!!
/Yes, three decades
//Brain no worky today
 
2014-02-22 06:46:32 PM

Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.


Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.


WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.


JRoo: Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!


Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?
 
2014-02-22 06:58:13 PM

jjorsett: Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.

JRoo: Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!

Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?


I did.

The same thing applies to both places.  Put out a cheap product made from scum-wage overseas workers (who considered scum-wage an improvement in their lifestyle) and undercut anyone who tried to use automation to improve their product with lower costs.

Now that these workers are now getting (not demanding but actually getting) a wage a magnitude above scum-wage, the cost difference makes automation at home a lot more tempting.
 
2014-02-22 07:02:28 PM

wildcardjack: DanInKansas: Annnnnnnd here's why I've added "Jackasses with MBAs" to the list of "People Dan disdains on general principles."

/Also on the list: cops, car salesmen, elected officials, cops, ambulance chasing reporters ("How did you feel when you came across the charred remains of your children?"), and cops.

Go read some Nassim Taleb. He'll convince you we need a hunting season for rutting MBAs.


One of my favorite writers.  The fact he pisses off economists, business majors, and my Daily Kos friends makes him even better.
 
2014-02-22 07:18:54 PM

if_i_really_have_to: exvaxman: It also can go the other way. The local gas utility was the 3rd largest pump maker in the world at one time. The ex-CEO from the 90's was talking in a radio interview about how awful the US factories were. He was touring facilities and had workers in (San Diego?) who got to go to Kansas City to a closing facility and pick out upgrades to their equipment. When he visited them, a crew of six came over to thank him about how much better their new (milling?) machine was. He said that he was shocked to see that it had a plaque on it saying (from my memory) Canadian War Production Board, 1940. He said that going into the Chinese facility, there was one man working on a computer putting out better quality.

Not sure what happened after that, I could not listen to the interview as my commute to work was over.

That sounds like a business that was paying out all of its profits instead of reinvesting in infrastructure.

So again, not the fault of labour, but of management.




It generally boils down new equipment or pay out mgmt bonuses.
 
2014-02-22 07:19:50 PM

Lord Jubjub: jjorsett: Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.

JRoo: Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!

Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?

I did.

The same thing applies to both places.  Put out a cheap product made from scum-wage overseas workers (who considered scum-wage an improvement in their lifestyle) and undercut anyone who tried to use automation to improve their product with lower costs.

Now that these workers are now getting (not demanding but actually getting) a wage a magnitude above scum-wage, the cost difference makes automation at home a lot more tempting.


England also introduced a much cheaper trainee minimum wage.
 
2014-02-22 07:30:39 PM
My Korean-brand washing machine was made in Mexico.
 
2014-02-22 07:32:16 PM

jjorsett: Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?


Yup, but we're seeing much the same thing here in the US.  Chinese shipping costs are fairly high, wages are rising, quality is spotty and intellectual property rights don't exist.

Meanwhile, in the USA, wages are stagnating and business incentives are as common as dandelions.
 
2014-02-22 07:33:45 PM
As costs of doing business in China rises, it loses its relative advantage. The cost of offshoring has to be significantly lower since you have additional costs such as transportation and managing from afar (and often at inconvenient 'local' hours for at least one party).
 

graphics8.nytimes.com

investing.curiouscatblog.net

Here's something else: Manufacturing as a fraction of a country's GDP has fallen for every country. Even China. The prime mover of GDP hasn't been manufacturing goods -- the biggest growth has been in services.

China's big hurdle (as India and Brazil and Mexico and all those other nations attracting manufacturing due to their cheap labor) is "The Middle Income Trap". Not many countries overcame that; those that did usually did so by benefiting from being early to the Industrial Age.

The Middle Income Trap says that it's relatively easy to jump from poor nation to "developing" nation, but it's much harder to rise further to an "advanced" economy with a strong middle class with educated citizens and a broad range of talent.
 
2014-02-22 07:33:48 PM

jjorsett: Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.

JRoo: Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!

Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?


Article?
 
2014-02-22 07:36:04 PM
I had a call recently. Company whose intranet I managed that then decided to outsource discovered that outsourcing their intranet was a farking disaster. Would I like to go back there?  Yeah, because not only do I want to manage a half-baked intranet with users making demands on Friday for changes for Monday, using old technology, I want to pick it up after some low-cost Accenture Indian guys got their hands on it. How about no.

I've a "rescue call" from an old client, too. He didn't come to me first. He went to some Indians who built a pile of shiat. They'd missed a massive chunk of the job, and then he tried to squeeze me on my price because well, "I don't have much left now". I told him to find someone else.

There's actually really good guys in India and I don't object to them. I've worked with them. But there's a lot of people in India that are just lousy and people hire them because they're cheap and think they're getting an equivalent person.
 
2014-02-22 08:22:33 PM

SDRR: jjorsett: Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Nope, it isn't about that.  It's because things have changed and today they're only making 1.2 shekels.  Plus they've nuked the American economy enough that they can pay half the wages they would have had to pay 20 years ago, with no worries about those pesky unions.

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: Remember in corporate america nothing is more important than maximizing returns in the next three months and the quarterly/annual numbers. Juice them up then cash out.

JRoo: Plus, Americans have got used to working for low-wages!

Did you guys not notice that this article is  about the UK and not the US?

Article?


Holy crap. If you click on the headline text, it brings you to an actual story. This explains a lot.
 
2014-02-22 09:35:06 PM
rs651.pbsrc.com
"Business is speculative. Sometimes an idea works and sometimes it doesn't."
 
2014-02-22 10:27:57 PM
We've brought some of our work back from China, some high precision machine parts as well as a simple grease gun line.

They send you really great prototype parts for you to approve.  Then the production parts are much lower quality on average.

Our adventure in India was a disaster.  We didn't even get a single line up and running.  Partly was incompetent management on our part and an Indian culture that...needs some maturing.
 
2014-02-22 10:58:33 PM
baconbeard:
Holy crap. If you click on the headline text, it brings you to an actual story. This explains a lot.

What the hell?  When did they start doing that?

We'll get over it, I guess.
 
2014-02-23 12:44:48 AM

Via Infinito: It's almost as if manufacturing products in the US makes good economic and business sense.


Especially if those jobs are in the U.K.  Did you even read TFA?
 
2014-02-23 12:45:49 AM

DanInKansas: Annnnnnnd here's why I've added "Jackasses with MBAs" to the list of "People Dan disdains on general principles."

/Also on the list: cops, car salesmen, elected officials, cops, ambulance chasing reporters ("How did you feel when you came across the charred remains of your children?"), and cops.


Why'd you leave out lawyers?
 
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