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(Think Progress)   Idaho bill would nullify all EPA regulations in the state. SupremacyClauseSaysWhat?   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 37
    More: Stupid, EPA, the Gem State, EPA regulations, Congressional Oversight, no-force, Tenth Amendment  
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1460 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Feb 2014 at 4:26 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-02-21 04:29:53 PM
9 votes:
This is just like the damn vaccines; we've gone for a long time without the ravages of polio and other preventable diseases, and so people have no fear of them.  Likewise, we're a long way from Love Canal and 1970s smog banks (et cetera, et cetera) and people have just forgotten WHY WE HAVE AN EPA.

It isn't like they have to look hard... just look at China.  You know, the one "kicking our asses" in everything, the one with 100% of all freshwater bodies contaminated above limits?  The one with smog so bad it is 10x over "severe" scale?

That's where "produce at any cost" will bring us back to.
2014-02-21 01:56:28 PM
8 votes:
fine. then cut all federal aid to the state.
2014-02-21 04:50:58 PM
6 votes:

Wook: For anyone familiar with EPA regs, this actually isn't a bad idea.


As someone familiar with them, those found in violation pay a small fine, and generally continue business as usual until they are caught again and pay another fine, increased, but still small.

One place (Kingston charcoal) around here gets around the requirement their smoke be only a certain level of opaqueness by only burning at night, so it is near impossible for a local to complain to the regulatory authorities.

You may think that is a silly rule, but it is a cheap way to guesstimate how much particulate you're emitting, and for lay people to help regulators.

Another business in the area that does creosote treatment and has been fined so many times you'd think they'd have gone out of business by now opens their vents in the wee hours of the morning so fewer people are awake to complain about the burning eyes and moth ball smell gagging you as you drive past.  It's often quite bad during the day as well.

They also have capped several places on their lot with impermeable surfaces because of arsenic runoff.

I should mention that just across the road from this place are houses, a playground, and a little further is a school where the kids don't play outside some days because of the smell.

The EPA serves a good purpose, but have had quite a few teeth pulled.
2014-02-21 07:21:29 PM
4 votes:

Wook: For anyone familiar with EPA regs, this actually isn't a bad idea.


As a person familiar with both Federal and one state's environmental regulations, I can safely say that this is a spectacularly bad idea.

Keeping something [relatively] clean in the first place is much less costly (damaging, injurious) than trying to remediate the damage after the fact.

/ was fortunate enough to work for a good corporate citizen when it came to the environment
// the consequences of an environmental screw-up would have been very unpleasant
2014-02-21 04:52:40 PM
4 votes:
Yeah! Nullify the EPA! Great idea, what could possibly go wrong?

thinkprogress.org

nimg.sulekha.com
2014-02-21 04:42:35 PM
4 votes:
Yep, it's not like your horrible pollution won't ever flow to the next state over.
2014-02-21 04:39:35 PM
4 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: FlashHarry: fine. then cut all federal aid to the state.

Sounds good to me.  We don't need your blood money anyway.  Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers.  Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.


You might want to rethink that, considering you get more back in federal money than you pay in...
2014-02-21 02:06:09 PM
4 votes:
Secede, you f*cking cowards
2014-02-21 06:32:29 PM
3 votes:

cirby: How many of the people championing the Supremacy Clause (which is correct in this case) also think it's okay for Colorado and the other states to effectively legalize marijuana?


Colorado and other states don't purport to nullify federal law, numnutz. States aren't required to criminalize everything the federal government does. But declining to criminalize isn't the same thing as nullifying.

Colorado: we will no longer punish marijuana under our own laws. We say nothing of the federal government's ability to do so.


Idaho: DERP HERPITY DOO!!!!!  Fedrul gubmint ain't gon 'force no tree huggin' laws hare!"

This isn't complicated. Thank you for helping to illustrate the ignorance of people who are pro-nullification!


2014-02-21 05:06:48 PM
3 votes:
FTA: A new bill, introduced by Idaho Rep. Paul Shepherd (R-Riggins), declares that the EPA's regulatory authority
is unconstitutional and violate's the U.S. Constitution's "true meaning and intent as given by the founders and ratifiers.



Fine. Enjoy your water and deformities "patriots"

gogreen.umaryland.edu

www.chinaabout.net
http://www.chinaabout.net/three-nose-baby-pig-found-in-henan-may-be- ca used-by-pollution/

s23.postimg.org

s22.postimg.org
s3.postimg.org
2014-02-21 04:56:23 PM
3 votes:
I swear to farking God, the GOP won't be happy until they've transformed Earth into Giedi Prime.
2014-02-21 02:12:09 PM
3 votes:
FTFIdiot: the EPA's regulatory authority is unconstitutional and violate's the U.S. Constitution's "true meaning and intent as given by the founders and ratifiers"

Because this guy knows that when the FFs established the Executive Branch, they didn't really mean for it to carry out the laws enacted by Congress if it would inconvenience big campaign donors.
2014-02-21 07:56:41 PM
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Summercat: bigsteve3OOO: Like the EPA?  Thank the republican party.  They made it.  Democrats opposed it.  You cant spell conservation without conservative.

Odd, conversation has always been a progressive movement. Maybe the parties re-aligned sometime thereafter?

Or are you insinuating that it's the Democrats today who are complaining about the "Job killing regulations" of the EPA?

I am merely stating the fact that the EPA like most good government programs came from the R party not the democrat.   linky to the wiki


I think we're well aware of the political parties that Progressives, Conservatives, and Regressives were part of prior the Southern Strategy of the late 60s/early 70s, and I think we all equally understand that they effectively swapped places - the Solid South now votes Republican, and the former Republican strongholds of the Northeast and Midwest now vote Democratic.

(To everyone else: Yes I know. I'm bored at work.)
2014-02-21 07:43:54 PM
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Like the EPA?  Thank the republican party.  They made it.  Democrats opposed it.  You cant spell conservation without conservative.


Odd, conversation has always been a progressive movement. Maybe the parties re-aligned sometime thereafter?

Or are you insinuating that it's the Democrats today who are complaining about the "Job killing regulations" of the EPA?
2014-02-21 05:59:18 PM
2 votes:

Doktor_Zhivago: Smeggy Smurf: Sounds good to me.  We don't need your blood money anyway.  Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers.  Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.

dafuq?

I buy that shiat for a living and I've never gotten any from Idaho.  I mean its a nice place but its no Taiwan, or South Korea, or Mexico, or Malaysia, or Thailand, or China, or Japan, or Phillipines or any of the other 99.99% of the suppliers of electronic components.


Boise Idaho is home of Micron Technology, The largest memory manufacturer in the world.  However, although MT has its headquarters in Idaho, the chips are manufactured overseas.
2014-02-21 05:39:44 PM
2 votes:

Orange-Pippin: clarification-- my uncle is not the guy in the pic ;)


No he's just the jerk who threw the match into the river. :)

I forgot about that actually, I went with Love Canal NY. There was a lot of shiat going down before the EPA and companies won't hesitate to return to that crap if the EPA goes away.
2014-02-21 05:07:40 PM
2 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: FlashHarry: fine. then cut all federal aid to the state.

Sounds good to me.  We don't need your blood money anyway.  Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers.  Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.


Hah,

You think without federal aid business would stay in a state with crumbling infrastructure?

Sorry but you can't hold the country hostage with commodities.
2014-02-21 04:51:48 PM
2 votes:

Wook: For anyone familiar with EPA regs, this actually isn't a bad idea.


From another article about the original source of the legislation:
"The EPA and its law officers - "jack-booted thugs in swat uniforms" - are trying to eliminate gold dredging through a misinterpretation of the Clean Water Act, said Tom Kitchar, president of the Waldo Mining District in Oregon. Kitchar and others spoke at a joint meeting of the Senate Resources and Environment and House Resources and Conservation Committees.
Miners complained about the new permit required since May under provisions of the Clean Water Act. They say it is a federal overreach, creates a lengthy and complicated process and closes or restricts many popular gold streams."

I'm familiar with fish habitat and the consequences of farking that up over the long term for short-term profit.

Including the economic costs.

Miner J. Fortyniner gets his $5 now, and we all pay the $20 to fix what he broke doing it.

You're right, that's not a bad idea, I mean your individual share of the cost is a fraction of a penny, right?
2014-02-21 04:47:11 PM
2 votes:
It's not like there are any current examples of unregulated industries poisoning people.
2014-02-21 04:16:07 PM
2 votes:
Because being able to breathe and drink without poisoning yourself is overrated.
2014-02-22 12:50:27 PM
1 votes:

Noam Chimpsky: The problem is that the feds don't have the authority to enforce their epa regulations in a state that wants their own.


Yes they do. It's called the supremacy clause. If a state doesn't want the federal government to be supreme then they can form their own country. They can't have it both ways.

I really don't see why this is so hard for you to get.
2014-02-21 09:33:50 PM
1 votes:
I've had a somewhat tinfoil-hatty thought.
Is there a coordinated plot afoot on the part of the American Right to paralyze the Federal Courts by strangling them with litigation stemming from all the unconstitutional or otherwise illegal legislation they are passing?
2014-02-21 09:29:02 PM
1 votes:

El Dudereno: Smeggy Smurf: FlashHarry: fine. then cut all federal aid to the state.

Sounds good to me.  We don't need your blood money anyway.  Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers.  Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.

We'll get what we want if your land-locked state wants an economy.


Not true. Lewiston, ID is the most inland port in the country accessible to ocean-going vessels. Of course, that's just because the federal government keeps the Columbia and Snake Rivers dredged. Shame about all that government intrusion, right?
2014-02-21 09:25:20 PM
1 votes:
Ah, Idaho. The state in which I grew up. Site of some of the most beautiful natural treasures in the country and many of my fondest memories. Occupied largely by brain damaged shiat weasels.

I've said it before - there is no creature on Earth more selfish, more entitled, and more ungrateful than rural Western Americans. Their entire lifestyle depends on federal largesse, and yet they despise the federal government. They're mostly a bunch of drooling knuckleheads.
2014-02-21 07:59:05 PM
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Summercat: bigsteve3OOO: Like the EPA?  Thank the republican party.  They made it.  Democrats opposed it.  You cant spell conservation without conservative.

Odd, conversation has always been a progressive movement. Maybe the parties re-aligned sometime thereafter?

Or are you insinuating that it's the Democrats today who are complaining about the "Job killing regulations" of the EPA?

I am merely stating the fact that the EPA like most good government programs came from the R party not the democrat.   linky to the wiki


So you're saying the bills that helped spawn it, written by Democrats, were opposed by Democrats.

I give Nixon full credit for creating the EPA, but to claim Democrats opposed it when they had a hand in its creation is just a load of bullshiat
2014-02-21 07:19:10 PM
1 votes:
Baz744:
Colorado and other states don't purport to nullify federal law, numnutz. States aren't required to criminalize everything the federal government does. But declining to criminalize isn't the same thing as nullifying.

States are technically not required to enforce Federal laws - but the practice has been that they do. The only reason they're proceeding without many problems is that the Justice Department has basically said they're not going to intervene about marijuana.

They may not claim to nullify Federal marijuana laws - but the practical effect is that they have.

Of course, those state laws won't even slow down any Federal agent who decides to ruin the life of some otherwise-innocent pot smoker or seller who annoyed a politician.
2014-02-21 06:00:46 PM
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Secede, you f*cking cowards


It's the farking Simplot Crew in the legislature and all the podunk little towns sucking the blood of immigrant workers in their work camps, err I mean, "housing authorities". Everyone that matters in this state is very opposed to the crap that makes the headlines regardless of political affiliation.
2014-02-21 05:56:02 PM
1 votes:
What the fark is with the republicans in state legislatures trying to pass all of these laws lately that are so obviously, glaringly unconstitutional that they'll be laughed out of court the moment they're challenged?

Legal discrimination against gays?  Check.
Nullification of EPA laws?  Check.
Nullification of federal gun laws?  Check.
Taking over enforcement of national borders?  Check.
Making federal agents doing their jobs illegal in the state?  Check.
I'm sure I'm missing several others
2014-02-21 05:50:54 PM
1 votes:
2014-02-21 05:47:42 PM
1 votes:

Orange-Pippin: Smeggy Smurf:Sounds good to me.  We don't need your blood money anyway.  Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers.  Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.


I grow my own potatoes thanks. You can keep your mutated, toxic, derp-infused, ones in your future sludge state.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 450x600]


Actually, there are quite a few states that have active potato crops.  Among them are Washington,
Oregon, North Dakota, Minnesota, and, a big supplier around here, Wisconsin. They may not
have the reputation of Idaho potatoes, but then, General Motors ran on its reputation - its pre-
WW2 reputation - for years.
2014-02-21 05:34:00 PM
1 votes:

Deadite: Lets not forget one of the main reasons Nixon created the EPA in the first place


Ahh the Cuyahoga River. My uncle was there when it happened

blog.cleveland.com

www.clf.org
2014-02-21 05:19:26 PM
1 votes:
How many of the people championing the Supremacy Clause (which is correct in this case) also think it's okay for Colorado and the other states to effectively legalize marijuana?

/Still against Federal law, for some reason or other
2014-02-21 05:07:14 PM
1 votes:

Dutch Pilsner: Will this kind of stuff continue once Obama is out of the White House?


It will never stop. It's also not novel, and has been going on since day 1 of this nation
2014-02-21 04:59:50 PM
1 votes:

ikanreed: Yep, it's not like your horrible pollution won't ever flow to the next state over.


Indeed, it looks like Idaho is upstream of a lot of people, and not downstream from many.  Do I have that right?  Being upstream from the herd can give you funny ideas about water rights.

//Lives in Colorado.
2014-02-21 04:50:17 PM
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Sounds good to me. We don't need your blood money anyway. Of course this means that we'll cripple the french fry market and good luck getting any more memory chips for your aging computers. Oh and you're going to have a hard time getting new locomotives as well.


I take that to mean that Idaho does not make memory chips for current models of computers, only obsolete ones.  Sounds like an industry that is dying anyway.
2014-02-21 04:33:53 PM
1 votes:
God, these new gold diggers are assholes.
2014-02-21 04:29:32 PM
1 votes:
Good luck with that
 
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