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(Telegraph)   The "deal" reached in Ukraine was helped along by a negotiating tactic more familiar to mob bosses than diplomats as Polish foreign minister is caught on tape telling opposition leaders "sign this deal or you will all die"   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 268
    More: Scary, Leader of the Opposition, Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Radek Sikorski, snap elections, paramilitary, signing ceremony  
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8200 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2014 at 2:00 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-21 05:43:14 AM  
sorry, I was wrong

Present-day Slavic people are classified into East Slavic (chiefly Belarusians, Russians and Ukrainians), West Slavic (chiefly Czechs, Poles, Slovaks and Wends, or Sorbs), and South Slavic (chiefly Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenes)

I stand corrected
 
2014-02-21 12:11:56 PM  
More surprises.
Oh, be still, my heart.
 
2014-02-21 12:18:11 PM  

snocone: More surprises.
Oh, be still, my heart.


To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-21 12:23:25 PM  

Magorn: To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders


They knew that was a possibility going in.

Besides, Ceausescu tried that and he ended up between a wall and a firing squad.
 
2014-02-21 12:29:45 PM  

Magorn: snocone: More surprises.
Oh, be still, my heart.

To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders


Martial law would pretty much guarantee civil war
 
2014-02-21 12:41:31 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Magorn: snocone: More surprises.
Oh, be still, my heart.

To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders

Martial law would pretty much guarantee civil war


Something that Poland, who shares a border with Ukraine, would have a deeply vested interest in avoiding.  While I doubt there is ANY love lost between Russia and Poland, Poland also knows a Ukraine in turmoil is very bad news for them
 
2014-02-21 01:18:37 PM  
Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.
 
2014-02-21 01:43:35 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.


Don't say that too loud, or the GOP will want to roll ours back to version 1.0
 
2014-02-21 01:47:04 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.


Our Ukrainian Farker had said in a recent thread that most opposition leaders wanted nothing to do with Tymoshenko since she really WAS  a crook (and issued a no compromise ..EVER manifesto from prison that did nothing to clam the violence yesterday)   so why DID they vote to free her today?
 
2014-02-21 02:01:47 PM  
"Than."
 
2014-02-21 02:01:48 PM  

Magorn: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Our Ukrainian Farker had said in a recent thread that most opposition leaders wanted nothing to do with Tymoshenko since she really WAS  a crook (and issued a no compromise ..EVER manifesto from prison that did nothing to clam the violence yesterday)   so why DID they vote to free her today?


If you can't imprison your opposition, better to have opposition that you can buy off.
 
2014-02-21 02:02:54 PM  
Obvious proof that snipers were Polish Nato snipers. Also Hitler
 
2014-02-21 02:04:02 PM  
I'm not sure that was a threat or just a lucid telling of truth.
 
2014-02-21 02:04:18 PM  

LewDux: Obvious proof that snipers were Polish Nato snipers. Also Hitler


I read that as Polish Potato Snipers. Twice.
 
2014-02-21 02:04:45 PM  
blogs.dixcdn.com
 
2014-02-21 02:06:27 PM  
Well they weren't wrong.
 
2014-02-21 02:10:05 PM  

Magorn: To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.


Yea, from what I read it was actually a warning that Yanukovich was definitely going to implement martial law and probably planning on killing them if they didn't sign and bring the situation under control.

What's more concerning is that there are several quotes from powerful people on Yanukovich's side which basically say that there won't be any peace until the country splits in two.
 
2014-02-21 02:10:12 PM  

Magorn: so why DID they vote to free her today?



Because she's kinda hot?
 
2014-02-21 02:10:34 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Don't say that too loud, or the GOP will want to roll ours back to version 1.0


you mean restore the constitution?
Yeah that would be terrible, all those personal liberties and rights.
 
2014-02-21 02:10:54 PM  

Magorn: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Our Ukrainian Farker had said in a recent thread that most opposition leaders wanted nothing to do with Tymoshenko since she really WAS  a crook (and issued a no compromise ..EVER manifesto from prison that did nothing to clam the violence yesterday)   so why DID they vote to free her today?


I just want her to go back to her old Princess Leia haircut.
 
2014-02-21 02:12:50 PM  
Based on how it was said, it sounded more like a warning than a threat.
 
2014-02-21 02:14:36 PM  
Well... Wow. I never thought just how much all politicians of the world look alike, in general.

/Then again
//I live in Mexico
///I've seen some shiat
 
2014-02-21 02:15:53 PM  
Men of the Cloth standing between armed riot police and the People ..

www.themalaymailonline.com

.. let's see you go do that ..
 
2014-02-21 02:15:56 PM  

Magorn: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Our Ukrainian Farker had said in a recent thread that most opposition leaders wanted nothing to do with Tymoshenko since she really WAS  a crook (and issued a no compromise ..EVER manifesto from prison that did nothing to clam the violence yesterday)   so why DID they vote to free her today?


Some protesters are big fans
 
2014-02-21 02:15:57 PM  

vpb: Magorn: To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders

They knew that was a possibility going in.

Besides, Ceausescu tried that and he ended up  between a wall and a firing squad.

as a bowl of Puppy Ceausescu.
 
2014-02-21 02:17:11 PM  
Yanukovych and the Ukrainian government began to operate what they called "The Operation": They would select opposition members and then threaten to kill them if they signed the so-called peace treaty. Four months later they started another operation which they called "The Other Operation". In this racket they selected another opposition member and threatened not to kill him if he didn't sign. One month later they hit upon "The Other Other Operation". In this the opposition member was threatened that if he didn't sign, they would kill him. This, for the Yanukovych, was the turning point.

/VIKTOR??
 
2014-02-21 02:18:02 PM  
I'm skeptical. Several of the parties involved in the Maidan movement see themselves as, or in fact are, descendents of WWII-era nationalist guerrillas. They hardly hesitated to start arming over the last few days. The military is apparently not political and there would probably be mass defections. They enjoy a strong popular base in much of the country's West. On the other hand, they would be going up against Russia, which is not a good idea right now.
 
2014-02-21 02:18:06 PM  
Also, I've a friend in Poland, so this stuff is pretty relevant.
 
2014-02-21 02:18:29 PM  

DamnYankees: Based on how it was said, it sounded more like a warning than a threat.


You in the barricades/listen to this:
There is noone coming to help you figgght
You're own your own/ You have no chance
Give up/ your guns or Die

/he wasn't wrong
//my kid's HS is doing Les Mis and he's been practicing a lot while the news was on so its hard not to see parallels
 
2014-02-21 02:19:19 PM  
The Polish foreign minister wasn't threatening the opposition, submitter, he was warning them what to expect next. There is a world of difference between threatening to hit someone with your car and warning them to get out of traffic.
 
2014-02-21 02:20:26 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: LewDux: Obvious proof that snipers were Polish Nato snipers. Also Hitler

I read that as Polish Potato Snipers. Twice.


To arms, men!

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-21 02:20:45 PM  
CygnusDarius
Well... Wow. I never thought just how much all politicians of the world look alike, in general.

They look the same because they are the same.
 
2014-02-21 02:21:21 PM  
This may be a trick to get the rebels to lay down their arms so the army will meet less resistance when Yanukovych sends them in the army anyway.

He will retain power if the army still obeys him, but is toast if at least half of the army turns against him when he orders them to kill civilians.
 
2014-02-21 02:22:28 PM  
Polish Foriegn Minister:  "Sign this deal or you will all die.  And don't you 'forget' it."
 
2014-02-21 02:24:00 PM  
That sounds way more like a plea than a threat to me.
 
2014-02-21 02:26:56 PM  
Meet the new boss.
 
2014-02-21 02:27:03 PM  
Solidarność...
 
2014-02-21 02:28:11 PM  

Diocletian's Last Cabbage: Polish Foriegn Minister:  "Sign this deal or you will all die.  And don't you 'forget' it."


www.jotdown.es
He was simply making them an offer he couldn't refuse.
 
2014-02-21 02:29:21 PM  
I expected better language of diplomacy from Poland.
 
2014-02-21 02:29:35 PM  

Mister Buttons: PC LOAD LETTER: LewDux: Obvious proof that snipers were Polish Nato snipers. Also Hitler

I read that as Polish Potato Snipers. Twice.

To arms, men!


That would be standing on a wall naked throwing potatoes? Or prowling the vegetable isle in a Polish market? Making mean comments to a bag o' spuds?
 
2014-02-21 02:30:24 PM  

jnapier: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Don't say that too loud, or the GOP will want to roll ours back to version 1.0

you mean restore the constitution?
Yeah that would be terrible, all those personal liberties and rights.


There's no Bill of Rights in Version 1.0.

/That's the joke
 
2014-02-21 02:32:07 PM  
Curious to see if this holds...
 
2014-02-21 02:32:08 PM  
I have a question:

When leading an opposition group such as this, what is the advantage to the tactic of taking over a square and barricading yourselves in?

It would seem this goes against everything Sun Tsu taught in the Art of War.  Why not send rogue teams out for dismantling of specific targets in infrastructure and logistics, disrupting the communications and such of the party in power?
 
2014-02-21 02:34:23 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Don't say that too loud, or the GOP will want to roll ours back to version 1.0


Wat?
 
2014-02-21 02:34:58 PM  
 
2014-02-21 02:36:44 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-21 02:36:58 PM  

Alphakronik: I have a question:

When leading an opposition group such as this, what is the advantage to the tactic of taking over a square and barricading yourselves in?

It would seem this goes against everything Sun Tsu taught in the Art of War.  Why not send rogue teams out for dismantling of specific targets in infrastructure and logistics, disrupting the communications and such of the party in power?


Because protest is designed to get the attention of oppressive rule and  demand redress, and not so much actual warfare.  If you want full tilt war, you have to look to military organizations, the preponderance of the Roman  Catholic church and corporate America.
 
2014-02-21 02:37:35 PM  

Alphakronik: I have a question:

When leading an opposition group such as this, what is the advantage to the tactic of taking over a square and barricading yourselves in?

It would seem this goes against everything Sun Tsu taught in the Art of War.  Why not send rogue teams out for dismantling of specific targets in infrastructure and logistics, disrupting the communications and such of the party in power?


Why not just firebomb the parliament building and blame it on Poland?
 
2014-02-21 02:37:48 PM  

jnapier: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Marcus Aurelius: Rolling back the constitution to 2004 and getting Tymoshenko out of prison is the most they can hope for at this point.

Don't say that too loud, or the GOP will want to roll ours back to version 1.0

you mean restore the constitution?
Yeah that would be terrible, all those personal liberties and rights.


Well, it would end all those first and second amendment arguments pretty quickly.
 
2014-02-21 02:39:48 PM  

Magorn: snocone: More surprises.
Oh, be still, my heart.

To be fair I think he meant that in a factual way rather than an overtly threatening one.  He knew Yanukovich was planning to declare martial law and unleash the full weight of the army on the protesters and if the soldiers obeyed orders, they protesters stood no chance (and I will lay money that Putin offered a brigade of plainclothes Spetsnaz to the effort who he guaranteed WOULD follow Yanukovich's orders


You forgot a parenthesis.  Here you go.    )
 
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