Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   The wife of Scientologist leader David Miscavige isn't missing. She's being held by force at a secret Scientology compound without contact with the outside world after questioning her husband's infallibility. See, very different   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 81
    More: Asinine, Sea Org, David Miscavige, Leah Remini, Scientology, Mike Rinder  
•       •       •

14756 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Feb 2014 at 2:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2014-02-21 02:48:28 AM  
18 votes:
AverageAmericanGuy:

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.

Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to  a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders.  If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.
2014-02-21 02:36:45 AM  
15 votes:

Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?


I think it's pretty easy to explain.

In the beginning, you're lured in by the very bootstrappy mindset of tackling your own problems and taking control of your life. At this point, there's a lot of support for you from other members, so you begin to develop an attachment to them and grow uncomfortable with outsiders who begin to be seen as people who will weigh you down. My guess is that most people stay at this level for the entirety of their religious life with them.

After a while, you've learned techniques that allow you to control your emotions and this empowers you to act in very aggressive ways without getting caught up in your own sense of humility or empathy. People are there to be used, and you are there to use them. It preys on the tendency of people to go along and get along. The truly sociopathic make it to this level and stay there becoming more sociopathic.

Along the way, you've unwittingly (or wittingly) been divulging your secrets to the church, and any attempt to break away is thwarted by the threat of blackmail or worse.

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.
2014-02-21 12:12:14 AM  
12 votes:
If ever a cult needed to be Wacoed...
2014-02-21 03:46:26 AM  
11 votes:

ransack.: It's no more ridiculous than a lot of other religions.


That phrase seems to be dragged out every time someone mentions Scientology. I think it's about time that it was put to rest.

Most religions come from a mixture of folk tales and basic survival rules passed down generation to generation over hundreds of years, and mangled a bit during the journey. They're pretty much what you'd expect any ancient mythology to be after such a long passage of time, warts and all. There is likely to be some nugget of truth at their core, even if the content has been "made better" so many times, that it's about as historically accurate as the tales of Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan and John Henry.

Scientology is bullsh*t through and through. Hubbard created it as a bar bet, wrote it down exactly as it is, and it therefore has no excuse.
2014-02-21 09:11:04 AM  
8 votes:
www.xenutv.com
Miscagige's niece finally got around to writing her book.  It should be required reading for scientology threads, and her site http://exscientologykids.com/  makes for good reading on the subject as well.

Those guys are running a private prison and they need to be forced to stop it.
2014-02-21 05:16:29 AM  
8 votes:

TheJoe03: Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.

A religion with aliens would actually make more sense than the Bible. The real problem with Scientology is that it's way too new so it doesn't have the mythical mystique of the ancient religions have. It's the same issue Mormons have and more people think those two religion are cults than the traditional religions.


Yet still, we had one running for president through a major party just a couple years ago.

I make no bones about it, I know that all religions are false, but I especially know that Mormonism and Scientology are false. I'd like to make a distinction here - I do not know if there is some super powerful creator, or if humans are actually living in a complicated computer simulation ala the matrix, or whatever, but I do know that religion is false. Omnipotence is false so long as we have free will. You can't have both at the same time. I don't see why anyone is worthy of being worshiped, even if they created me, and especially if they are not omnipotent and double/triple especially if they are and yet refuse to give me direction on what to do and then expect to punish me if I don't do whatever it is that they want me to do. Talk about a complete asshole.

Anyway, Mormonism and scientology and other modern day cults are demonstratively false. The fact that they not only exist, but seemingly flourish is a damning indictment of human nature. As a species, we are evidently farking terrible at critical thinking. Sure, there may be the random exception to the rule here and there, but it definitely appears that the majority of the human race is content to sit there, be told what to do, what to think about and to soil their pants on demand.

It's farking embarrassing.
2014-02-21 12:11:47 AM  
8 votes:
How is it the organization that broke into IRS offices gets to be tax exempt, again?
2014-02-21 05:59:03 AM  
6 votes:

Khazar-Khum: AverageAmericanGuy:

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.

Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to  a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders.  If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.


Except for buying indulgences, bible salesmen, tithing, etc.

Now you say, "But that's different because reasons and such!!" and yes, it is different.  In spite of those differences however, the echoes are there and the similarities are undeniable.  Scientology is an insular cult, but history suggests MOST major-player religions started as insular cults.  Hell, the bible is pretty clear that Jesus' followers gave him nearly ALL their property (acts 4).  In one instance a man and his wife were killed by "by god" (so...the cult leadership) for selling some land and keeping some of the money from them(acts 5).

And remember this is the cleaned-up and whitewashed story after shifts in power and money.   Religions that "make it" and stop being tiny cults tend to stop those kinds of behaviors because they don't NEED those behaviors anymore.  More members leads to greater self-policing, greater amounts of money (10% of a million compared to 50% of ten thousand), and a need for doctrinal flexibility.

Scientology is an interesting sociological event.  The problem with studying most religions is that TRUE history of a given faith was burned, purged, and buried deep by later adherents who didn't want some of the more awful truths out and undermining the church.  The story of a cult leader who murdered disobedient followers, fought brutal and bloody battles, or kept a private pleasure den filled with a harem of sexy lovers and wallowed in self-indulgence doesn't sell like the selfless prophet who even treated his worst enemies with kindness and forgiveness.  I mean both Joseph Smith and Mohammed have a story where the children they molested and married were magically extra-mature and "old souls" so it was okay that dirty old freaks were farking kids under the age of 13.

Scientology does this within its domain, it lies and lies and lies about all the nasty little truths of L. Ron Hubbard, the things he did and said, and the things the church has done (operation snow white) and the nature of its enemies (i.e. anyone telling an unwanted truth about their faith is a "suppressive person" or part of the Marcabian death fleet) but unlike the more-established faiths of the world scientology is way further down the scale of successful obfuscations.  If I call Mohammed a child-molester I can get labeled an anti-muslim bigot, if point out when L. Ron Hubbard was psych patient it is just reality.

The sliding scale of truth (when religion is involved) and historical revisionism rampant in any religion has not has the kind of time it had in other major faiths.  More interestingly it may never have as rich an environment.  With more and more media and education in the world is is harder than ever to truly bury the truth.  Sure we have Fox News proving lies are easier than ever to spread, but we also have the entire internet to store and share the truth, where in olden times burning a book could feasibly destroy its knowledge forever.
2014-02-21 05:22:48 AM  
6 votes:
AverageAmericanGuy:

In the beginning, you're lured in by the very bootstrappy mindset of tackling your own problems and taking control of your life. At this point, there's a lot of support for you from other members, so you begin to develop an attachment to them and grow uncomfortable with outsiders who begin to be seen as people who will weigh you down. My guess is that most people stay at this level for the entirety of their religious life with them.

After a while, you've learned techniques that allow you to control your emotions and this empowers you to act in very aggressive ways without getting caught up in your own sense of humility or empathy. People are there to be used, and you are there to use them. It preys on the tendency of people to go along and get along. The truly sociopathic make it to this level and stay there becoming more sociopathic.

Along the way, you've unwittingly (or wittingly) been divulging your secrets to the church, and any attempt to break away is thwarted by the threat of blackmail or worse.

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.


I spent nearly 20 years as a non-Scientologist (wog) working at a middle-management level in a company run by Scientologists. (Using policies written by Hubbard.) I know more about Scientology than a lot of Scientologists. I've worked with Hubbard's daughter. My sister is in the Sea Org. So I'm pretty familiar with Scientology. And I'd say you just wrote one of the best descriptions of it I've ever seen.

At the initial level, Scientology is simply a clue for people who don't have one. Lots of it is simple common sense, and if you don't have a lot of common sense it seems very revelatory. A lot of rank and file members stay at that level. But as you get more and more training and move through the various levels, you can get more and more sucked in. And as that happens, your personality changes and you begin to feel that only you and your Scientologists friends REALLY have things figured out, and everyone else is to be used as necessary for the betterment of the organization. The brainwashing/hypnosis and psychological techniques, combined with "Hard Sell" sales techniques used by the Registrars, makes it difficult to get out once you get in very deep at all. It's insidious.

Regarding the "it's too strange to be a real religion" argument, it seems to me that volcano people being stuck to a magnetic ribbon in space is no stranger than someone eating a cracker, drinking some wine, and declaring they are eating the flesh and drinking the blood of their savior. They're both wack IMO, but if it makes someone feel better about themselves, then why should I care?
2014-02-21 04:35:51 AM  
5 votes:
AverageAmericanGuy:
And a professor of English may love to chat with you about Shakespeare on Sunday afternoons at the park, but if you really want to learn at a deep level you're going to have to pay up.

You ever see how much college costs these days?


You haven't met many professors, have you? Every professor I've ever met is willing to expound at length on their specialty, because they love it and want others to love it. Ask nicely, and you might even be able to take the class for free. It's the registrars who are the real jerks, because unless they get theirs, there's no proof you took the class.

You don't pay a university for the knowledge. You pay for the proof you got the knowledge. The knowledge can be had for free.
2014-02-21 04:02:42 AM  
5 votes:

Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?


Think of it like an extremely bad, extremely expensive MMO. It starts off fun, but progressively, imperceptibly, the grind increases, the micropayments increase, and every time you level up it becomes that much harder for you want to leave. A few brain wash cycles later and you're head banging cult member.
2014-02-21 03:43:33 AM  
5 votes:

TheJoe03: A religion with aliens would actually make more sense than the Bible. The real problem with Scientology is that it's way too new so it doesn't have the mythical mystique of the ancient religions have. It's the same issue Mormons have and more people think those two religion are cults than the traditional religions.


I don't think it is mystique so much as the fact that we don't really know a lot about the authors of the Bible except the whitewashed history from their followers, but we KNOW that L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith were both con men who we shouldn't trust further than we can throw them.
2014-02-21 06:57:56 AM  
4 votes:
It's really too bad the of all the SF writers in the world that L Ron Hubbard was the one who formed a religion.  Why couldn't it have been Heinlein?

Where Michael Valentine Smith when you need him?
2014-02-21 04:03:25 PM  
3 votes:

Skirl Hutsenreiter: As to why become a Scientologist - nowadays anyone who can google can find out their whole crazy belief system in no time, but it used to be a closely guarded secret. They sued the shiat out of the first people who publicized it.Rather than presenting everything all at once, which any sane person would reject, they'd get you to pay to audit until you reached the next level, you'd be fed another little dribble of the theology behind it all. By the time you had the whole picture, you were already heavily invested in it, both spiritually and financially. It's very hard for someone to admit that they've paid tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars over decades to hear a bunch of bullshiat - much easier to pretend it isn't bullshiat, especially when every step of the way you only have to accept a tiny amount more bullshiat. Combine that with all the collected blackmail material (it's like if the Catholic Church made you write out your confessions, filed them away and later said they'd have to tell everyone that horrible secret you've kept all these years if you ever left) and you have a pretty good recipe for once you're sucked in, you're all in, crazy shiat be damned.


This is the thing that I think a lot of people don't understand...the completely off-the-wall stuff wasn't widely known to the general public until the last 10-15 years or so; their entire operation hinges on the iron-fisted control of information, which was exponentially easier prior to the advent of the Internet.  Scientology is presented to the uninitiated as a pragmatic, scientific approach to understanding the dynamics of human behavior...what makes us think and act the way we do, both within ourselves and toward each other.  There are plenty of detailed, pseudo-scientific anecdotes given to validate the presented axioms (this is important - ideas aren't stated as theories or observations the way, say, psychology is, but as scientifically proven TRUTHS; again, much easier to pull off before Google was around for rudimentary fact-checking).

Hubbard liked to wrap his science-fiction imagination around little everyday foibles that people could observe in everyday life, and they'd accept his explanation because it seemed to ring true with their observations...kind of the way you feel when you read something written be someone who shares the same closely-held political views as your own...like "this guy really GETS it".  Just as an example - one of Scientology's more pervasive principles is that everyone is "at cause" over his or her own situations in life; that is to say, you're directly responsible for the environment you find yourself in, without exception.  If you're minding your own business walking down the street and someone runs up and stabs you for apparently no reason at all, you did SOMETHING to "pull that in"...there's a mathematical kind of karmic balance at play by which you somehow deserved it.  This seems like a sweeping overgeneralization that all but the most gullible would balk at, but the reader is peppered with everyday examples of this principle in play that almost everyone can relate to; the office jerk who gets beaten within an inch of his life at a bar one fateful night - well, he "pulled that in" with all those "overts" he committed stealing lunches in the breakroom...of course, in reality the guy was just an asshole who finally mouthed off to a bigger asshole and got called out on it, but Hubbard would throw in more and more examples that made you think "oh yeah, kinda like that time X happened to Frank..." until they really could seem to agglomerate into a plausible body of proof.

My (apparently long-winded - sorry!) point is that before all the stuff about Xenu and body-thetans was common knowledge, it's not completely absurd to see how people who were genuinely only trying to improve their lot in life (or even help their fellow man) would allow themselves to accept enough of what Hubbard was saying to get more and more incrementally entrenched as you describe...the man was a piss-poor writer without even a basic understanding of the classical sciences that he claimed to master so readily, but he was a truly brilliant criminal.
2014-02-21 12:26:56 PM  
3 votes:
Before I knew what scientology was, I was looking for a job in Austin, TX, and came across a scientology center that was "hiring".
I went in, watched their creepy video, took all their tests and scored very highly, so they wanted me.
I stood firm in my stance that if they could pay me $11/hr. I would work for them.
Well, they areen't the paying type, more the 'extort as much money from you as possible' type, so they wouldn't agree to "hire" me.
They wanted me to be an auditor.  (and a walking wallet)
So after refusing to "work" for them for nothing, the first guy sent me up to the next guy to try to break me down.
He couldn't crack me either, so I kept getting passed up the line.  Apparently they wanted me pretty bad, I must've scored very highly.
At this point, I was not interested in what they were selling, but I was interested in how they kept trying to break me down, and I wanted to see how far they'd go.
Finally, they took me the the head poobah creep guy in this lavish office with beautiful wood and leather furniture who was explaining to me how cool it would be for me to train my mind to learn how people think, how to see people as predictable and guideable (gullible) and the last thing he said to me was "you can get so powerful you can fark with people!!"
At that point, I stood up, told him he was totally farked up in the head and walked out the building.
I felt violated, and dirty, and sick to my stomach.
scientology is one of the creepiest  zombie-makingcults I've ever seen.
The people are frighteningly fake, and empty, and transparent.
They think they are accessing some sort of higher knowledge and power, while it is they who are being played for
idiots and simply drained of their money and souls.
I feel sorry for the fools who enlist.

/csb
2014-02-21 07:41:51 AM  
3 votes:

Clint_Torres: People are stupid.


Marcus Aurelius: You don't have to be mentally unstable to join a cult, but it sure helps.


You'd think so, but studies have been done on people who join cults. Generally they're slightly smarter than average and no more prone to mental instability. The unifying factor is that they're approached by the cult when they're vulnerable - maybe they've just moved to a new city and they don't have any friends, maybe they've quit their job to be a housewife and are bored silly as a result, maybe a parent or spouse has just died and they're having trouble dealing with the grief.  Their "mental immune system" is suppressed the same way your actual immune system can be suppressed by stress.
2014-02-21 07:15:56 AM  
3 votes:

x23: how short is Miscavige if he is being dwarfed by the 5'7" Tom Cruise? what is he? like 4'11" or something?


I have a theory Scientology is nothing more than the natural result of little man syndrome reaching its extreme
2014-02-21 07:04:03 AM  
3 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Khazar-Khum: AverageAmericanGuy:

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.

Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to  a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders.  If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.

And a professor of English may love to chat with you about Shakespeare on Sunday afternoons at the park, but if you really want to learn at a deep level you're going to have to pay up.

You ever see how much college costs these days?


Then perhaps it would be compared to college than a religion.

Religions don't intentionally withhold information about their beliefs from those seeking it out. This is exactly what Scientology does.

Also, I've never once heard of any other church keeping you under surveillance if you leave.
2014-02-21 06:32:49 AM  
3 votes:
WTF??  This poor woman could be dead for all we know.  Considering how thoroughly he separated her from anyone who cares about her, how would we ever know?  How would anyone ever get probable cause to search this secret compound for her?  These farking sociopathic criminals can seemingly get away with virtually anything by hiding behind their "religion".
2014-02-21 06:24:52 AM  
3 votes:

generallyso: It sounds like your criteria is the number of people providing the source material and how long before modern record-keeping they lived rather than the fact one supposes invisible space ghosts and the other supposes invisible sky wizards.


It's more that we know who wrote it, and we know he was nutjob, a poly-drug user (and possibly addict), and a criminal. We can see how (even more obviously than other religions) the priesthood are abusing people (and their wallets), suckering them in, deliberately separating them from their families, using them for forced labour, putting them in prison cells etc etc.

Did other religions do this in the past? Sure. Do we let them pull this shiat now? Hell no.
2014-02-21 04:38:38 AM  
3 votes:
Can we talk about how this guy's wife is possibly being tortured in solitary confinement right now, for all we know? In a compound surrounded by razor wire fences and assumably armed guards? They are so insular and secretive I don't think even the federal gov would try to gain access to see what they're up to.

Also, as mentioned upthread, they don't tell people anything about aliens. Not unless you advance to the highest levels, after years of loyally paying tens of thousands. When newbies walk in they talk self-help about reducing stress, dealing with emotion etc. The gullible are taken in sometimes. But I've read elsewhere that they have a much smaller following than people realize.

Oh, also Sea Org. They buy ships, dress up and play navy. But not as a joke, it's in all seriousness a part of their practices. Because Hubbard was in the navy. (Kicked out for being loony, I think it was)

It's also possible 'they' are reading this thread, frikkin weirdos. They've been known to keep track of people who have criticized their group, and in some cases harrass them in old-fashioned ways (IRL). Or plant commenters in the thread.
2014-02-21 03:48:07 AM  
3 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Khazar-Khum: AverageAmericanGuy:

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.

Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to  a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders.  If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.

And a professor of English may love to chat with you about Shakespeare on Sunday afternoons at the park, but if you really want to learn at a deep level you're going to have to pay up.

You ever see how much college costs these days?


All the information about shakespeare is available at low cost. You can walk into any bookstore with $100 and walk out with the (annotated) collected works. You can study the shiat out of those, in combination with hundreds of online fora, where people are willing to have in depth discussions, it isn't hard to become an expert. I'm pretty sure that there are enough free resources on good ol' Bill to keep people learning for years.

Scientology won't even tell you about Xenu before you have a few (tens of) thousands dollars invested in the "religion".
2014-02-21 03:10:23 AM  
3 votes:

Khazar-Khum: AverageAmericanGuy:

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.

Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to  a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders.  If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.


Hell, Bob only asks for $30, and he offers triple money back in the event that you don't happen to get eternal salvation.
2014-02-21 02:49:55 AM  
3 votes:
David Miscavich, the head of scientology's wife isn't missing

I had to read that about 10 times before I finally figured out what subby was trying to say.

Scientology head David Miscavige's wife isn't missing.
2014-02-21 02:44:50 AM  
3 votes:

Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?


This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.
2014-02-21 12:06:39 AM  
3 votes:
Somebody hold down Subby, it's time for grammar and punctuation auditing.
2014-02-21 08:20:03 PM  
2 votes:

AndTheyAllLived: Oh, and that bullshiat phrase reminds me:  there's also a real power in people having a common made-up language to make them feel that they're part of something special and exclusive.


Very true. There are a lot of Scientologists who can't have a conversation without using the made-up terms. The special lingo adds to their sense of belonging and exclusivity. I used to be very conversant in Scientologese, but part of my job was to review and edit promo material that was going out to the public, and making sure it was expressed in common "wog" terms, and not filled with Hubbardisms. (Many of the terms were existing common English, but with archaic usage instead of more modern usage. If you dug deep enough in the Oxford English Dictionary, there were examples of the word or term used "Hubbard style", but they'd only make sense to language historians and Scientologists.)
2014-02-21 02:53:06 PM  
2 votes:

Gunther: TheBigJerk: Good job not reading further there son.  Glad you can't have more complicated thoughts regarding reprehensible behavior or the nature of casual destruction.

Yes; clearly my issue with your post was clearly that I'm too mentally limited to think about people doing bad stuff. You really nailed me there.

It's farking ridiculous of you to compare Scientology (adherents in the low five figures) with Catholicism (a billion adherents) and contrast levels of harm you think they cause.  Obviously Catholicism is going to be responsible for more suffering: there's fifty thousand Catholics for every Scientologist.


aaaaand?

Like i said, that makes them really hard to compare.  It's like comparing a Lamborghini and a Humvee, any one scale you put them on weighs more heavily in favor of one or the other because they are very different vehicles with very different purposes.

AND, the reason Catholics don't commit such acts on an individual level is partly  because they are so big.  No religion commits evil because god or the devil made 'em do it, every questionable or monstrous act served some kind of logical purpose for the leadership.  Scilons hunt down every apostate because losing or gaining 5 members is a big deal while Catholics are a lot more laid-back because losing or gaining 5 members is a rounding error.  Scientologists don't have to worry about big pictures as much as Catholics, and Catholics don't have to worry about one apostate wandering away as much.

But, what is interesting and what history seems to bear out is that when a religion starts, it is like Scientology and when a religion gets big, it is like Catholicism, completely separate from the particulars of their dogma or their makeup.  Which brings up around the the original point, someone said, "The only difference between a cult and a religion is time and money."  Those are the two motive differences, but the results are quite different indeed.

On a more specific note; kidnapping and brainwashing THAT cult's members as opposed to any OTHER cult's members is dicey because if you work the law wrong you end up explicitly supporting a few big churches as they stomp the fark out any small church.  Christian scientists are mostly harmless, but they believe prayer heals all and all medicine is forbidden.  You gonna kidnap their kids for ultimately being anti-vaxxers?

Like I said earlier though, you want the Co$ hit where it hurts you go for the money.  Money is their game and money is how they make up for all their other shortcomings (mainly lack of membership).  Go for their tax exemption and you'll not only hurt 'em, you'll hurt other religions that are doing bad stuff by association.
2014-02-21 01:38:28 PM  
2 votes:

Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.


There was an acting coach with a very successful acting course who became an early Scientologist.  He introduced it to several actors who went on to be successful.  Then, it became a thing you did simply because the core group around this coach did it, and obviously it had helped those other dudes.  So it snowballed.

As to why become a Scientologist - nowadays anyone who can google can find out their whole crazy belief system in no time, but it used to be a closely guarded secret.  They sued the shiat out of the first people who publicized it.

Rather than presenting everything all at once, which any sane person would reject, they'd get you to pay to audit until you reached the next level, you'd be fed another little dribble of the theology behind it all.  By the time you had the whole picture, you were already heavily invested in it, both spiritually and financially.  It's very hard for someone to admit that they've paid tens or hundreds  of thousands of dollars over decades to hear a bunch of bullshiat - much easier to pretend it isn't bullshiat, especially when every step of the way you only have to accept a tiny amount more bullshiat.  Combine that with all the collected blackmail material (it's like if the Catholic Church made you write out your confessions, filed them away and later said they'd have to tell everyone that horrible secret you've kept all these years if you ever left) and you have a pretty good recipe for once you're sucked in, you're all in, crazy shiat be damned.
2014-02-21 01:00:56 PM  
2 votes:
http://www.xenu.net/ - all I needed to peruse a few years back to figure out my Scientologist friend was on the one way slide to being brainwashed.

/he's still in the cult
//hates me for asking him about xenu.net
2014-02-21 11:49:44 AM  
2 votes:

fireclown: lilbjorn: fireclown: Those guys are running a private prison and they need to be forced to stop it.

As long as they call themselves a religion, they're apparently free to do anything they want.

Yeah, and they've won a few lawsuits to that effect.  The principle seems to be that religions are allowed to enforce discipline among their flock. I think the law is in error in this matter, and hope that it is eventually overturned.

You just don't see Methodists holding people against their will, apart from seemingly interminable weekend retreats.


"Against their will" is dicey when cults and brainwashing comes into play.  Quite a lot of the folk who are imprisoned are their (legally speaking) of their own free will.  If you are familiar with the Milgram Experiment you know they were forced to sign the documents and make the agreements that have them locked away, but ignoring or excusing that kind of psychological manipulation is a key part of religious freedom.

Scientology lawyers know it, and take advantage of it.

'Nother fun fact: scientology lost its tax-exemption for a couple of decades.  They got it back after changing how they operated and paying a pittance percentage of what they owed the IRS.  Taking it away again seems like the best means of hurting them again with the added bonus of forcing other tax-exempt religions to stand with them (and their craziness) or step back their own illegal activities (Pulpit freedom sunday and similar activities).
2014-02-21 11:33:35 AM  
2 votes:

TheBigJerk: Now you're probably asking, "SO WHAT?!?  They're evil!" and well, you're probably right.  So are the Catholics who promote the spread of AIDS in Africa (indirectly) and the Mormons trying to get gay people killed.


Oh fark off with that false-equivalency bullshiat. Go hang out in Politics threads and tell people BSABSVR if you need your fix.
2014-02-21 06:47:51 AM  
2 votes:

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: How is it the organization that broke into IRS offices gets to be tax exempt, again?


Lots and lots of blackmail.
2014-02-21 05:49:54 AM  
2 votes:

Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.


Among the people prone to have crippling insecurities, it's the rich, especially the rich and, if not vain, people that require appearances be kept up for their career.

AverageAmericanGuy: and grow uncomfortable with outsiders who begin to be seen as people who will weigh you down.


And that's already a part of celebrity life, photogs and the press, people in general really, already treat them as if they're some other life form.

And of course, for Scientology, this makes them the ripest fruit to try and recruit.  You don't see door to door recruiters for scientology, and certainly not in poor neighborhoods.

They are doing what other religions have not.  They target (the few)people with money and issues, instead of the poor masses.

They're not in it for the "power" like typical religions, or at least, a different kind of power.  Maybe it's just the route that's changed, I mean, if you can convince the best, you don't need them all.

Either way, it's deplorable.
2014-02-21 05:32:30 AM  
2 votes:

bloobeary: ransack.: It's no more ridiculous than a lot of other religions.

That phrase seems to be dragged out every time someone mentions Scientology. I think it's about time that it was put to rest.

Most religions come from a mixture of folk tales and basic survival rules passed down generation to generation over hundreds of years, and mangled a bit during the journey. They're pretty much what you'd expect any ancient mythology to be after such a long passage of time, warts and all. There is likely to be some nugget of truth at their core, even if the content has been "made better" so many times, that it's about as historically accurate as the tales of Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan and John Henry.

Scientology is bullsh*t through and through. Hubbard created it as a bar bet, wrote it down exactly as it is, and it therefore has no excuse.


Thank you.  The "it's the same as the others" bs is the like minded parroting kind of stuff people should try to avoid doing.  It's the sort of disarming thing anyone uses to get over the first hurdle of ridiculous things you've heard somewhere about them.  I'm sure the Scientologists have some clever jokes at the beginning dealing with the "myths".
2014-02-21 03:47:34 AM  
2 votes:

Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?


Same reason anyone joins any other religion.  They're either indoctrinated in early childhood into whatever the local religion happens to be, or they're "converted" by people who pretend to be their friends -- and sometimes actually are their friends -- in a time of personal weakness or upheaval.
x23
2014-02-21 03:15:28 AM  
2 votes:
how short is Miscavige if he is being dwarfed by the 5'7" Tom Cruise? what is he? like 4'11" or something?

i.dailymail.co.uk
2014-02-21 03:02:17 AM  
2 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

I think it's pretty easy to explain.

In the beginning, you're lured in by the very bootstrappy mindset of tackling your own problems and taking control of your life. At this point, there's a lot of support for you from other members, so you begin to develop an attachment to them and grow uncomfortable with outsiders who begin to be seen as people who will weigh you down. My guess is that most people stay at this level for the entirety of their religious life with them.

After a while, you've learned techniques that allow you to control your emotions and this empowers you to act in very aggressive ways without getting caught up in your own sense of humility or empathy. People are there to be used, and you are there to use them. It preys on the tendency of people to go along and get along. The truly sociopathic make it to this level and stay there becoming more sociopathic.

Along the way, you've unwittingly (or wittingly) been divulging your secrets to the church, and any attempt to break away is thwarted by the threat of blackmail or worse.

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.


People are stupid.


/just kidding, that was a very insightful answer
//people really are stupid
2014-02-21 02:55:49 AM  
2 votes:

Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.


It's no more ridiculous than a lot of other religions. It's just easier to trace the shiat back to the bull it came from in Scientology's case.
2014-02-21 02:47:34 AM  
2 votes:
if only there were some sort of bureau that could federally investigate this

/who ya gonna call
2014-02-21 12:48:47 AM  
2 votes:
I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?
2014-02-21 05:54:09 PM  
1 votes:
Skirl Hutsenreiter: There was an acting coach with a very successful acting course who became an early Scientologist.  He introduced it to several actors who went on to be successful.  Then, it became a thing you did simply because the core group around this coach did it, and obviously it had helped those other dudes.  So it snowballed.

Hmm, I wonder how deep this particular rabbit hole goes.  What if the 'acting coach' was in cahoots with a couple of major studio executives? How many -- or how few -- conspirators would it have taken to launch an influential cult, simply by selecting a few credulous, good-looking, and modestly-talented people and turning them into influential superstars who would credit Scientology for their success?

It would explain a lot if the Scientology celebrity recruitment process were the exact opposite of what everybody's been assuming.  It's not that actors are inherently a bunch of gullible nitwits, it's that gullible nitwits can easily be trained to become actors.
2014-02-21 05:11:28 PM  
1 votes:

generallyso: It sounds like your criteria is the number of people providing the source material and how long before modern record-keeping they lived rather than the fact one supposes invisible space ghosts and the other supposes invisible sky wizards.


The difference is rather simple:

Religon is a used car, whose odometer has rolled over several times, is covered in rust, dents and bumper stickers, and upon which no two pieces of the body match up in color or manufacturing date. There is little left from the original construction, apart from the frame, which is sagging badly as it's being held together with duct tape and faith.

Scientology is a factory fresh pile of sh*t which has been stamped out on a press, vaugely in the shape of a car.

I wouldn't want to try and drive either of them, but they aren't really the same thing.
2014-02-21 04:48:35 PM  
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: Felgraf: YEah, that's actually the really goddamn scary thing about brainwashing: There's a lot of evidence that suggests that *intelligence is not a defense against brainwashing*.

Depends on what you deem intelligence to be.

More pointedly:
A lot of "smart" people can fall into believing anything, because they desire for it to be true, the subconscious makes it happen.  Rational intelligence is irrelevant.  The apt involved trait would be self awareness, or rather the part of it that deals with the capacity for introspection.

You may have to be smart to be self aware in that regard, but being smart does not necessarily include self awareness.


SO take it down a notch.
The great majority of people who follow a religion were indoctrinated into that religion while they were infants, children and teens.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination#Religious_indoctrination

That indoctrination typically includes things like:
bad things will happen if you leave the faith (hell),
varying degrees of parental disapproval (disapprove, to shunning, to death to apostates),
you should have children and raise them the same,
and don't question any of the teachings.

Indoctrination is brainwashing, wrapped with the authority of religion.
I wonder if the requirement is intelligence to BREAK the indoctrination.

Somewhere in my education (formal and informal) I developed the ability to critically think.
And I applied it to everything. Religion can never stand to be critically analysed.

God exists.
Therefore you must go to church every sunday or you go to hell.

LOL
None of the tenets of faith logically follow from the existence of a god, just people making rules so they can be in charge.

/Also. the rapture happened years ago and we were all left behind (tm).
2014-02-21 01:30:06 PM  
1 votes:

TwistedFark: TheJoe03: Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?

I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.

A religion with aliens would actually make more sense than the Bible. The real problem with Scientology is that it's way too new so it doesn't have the mythical mystique of the ancient religions have. It's the same issue Mormons have and more people think those two religion are cults than the traditional religions.

Yet still, we had one running for president through a major party just a couple years ago.

I make no bones about it, I know that all religions are false, but I especially know that Mormonism and Scientology are false. I'd like to make a distinction here - I do not know if there is some super powerful creator, or if humans are actually living in a complicated computer simulation ala the matrix, or whatever, but I do know that religion is false. Omnipotence is false so long as we have free will. You can't have both at the same time. I don't see why anyone is worthy of being worshiped, even if they created me, and especially if they are not omnipotent and double/triple especially if they are and yet refuse to give me direction on what to do and then expect to punish me if I don't do whatever it is that they want me to do. Talk about a complete asshole.

Anyway, Mormonism and scientology and other modern day cults are demonstratively false. The fact that they not only exist, but seemingly flourish is a damning indictment of human nature. As a species, we are evidently farking terrible at critical thinking. Sure, there may be the random exception to the rule here and there, but it definitely appears that the majority of the human race is content to sit there, be told what to do, what to think about and to soil their pants on demand.

It's farking embarrassing.


You can't "know" they are false. You have a belief. A faith one might say.
2014-02-21 12:37:38 PM  
1 votes:

Gunther: TheBigJerk: Now you're probably asking, "SO WHAT?!?  They're evil!" and well, you're probably right.  So are the Catholics who promote the spread of AIDS in Africa (indirectly) and the Mormons trying to get gay people killed.

Oh fark off with that false-equivalency bullshiat. Go hang out in Politics threads and tell people BSABSVR if you need your fix.


Good job not reading further there son.  Glad you can't have more complicated thoughts regarding reprehensible behavior or the nature of casual destruction.

liam76: TheBigJerk: Right now Xenu and the Volcanoes is seen widely as crazy-pants crazicality but a Zombie Jew and an invisible sky monster are totally reasonable and rational, if that were flipped it would be the Catholic Church that was telling people "you can't read the bible until you learn an obscure version of Latin and if you try to learn all the secrets of our church before you are ready you'll get Pneumonia and die."

The problem is that at the tiem of its "fouding" the Zenu story is bonkers.

At the time of christianity's founding a Lich (zombies just eat brains) son fo god was pausible.


So are psychic aliens, or at least until the last decade or so.  Isaac Asimov was considered a writer of "hard" scifi and his speculative fiction was quite open to the idea of ESP.  He was a contemporary of Hubbard and provides a pretty good context to what was "believable" to folks during the creation of Dianetics.

And like it or not, a majority of Americans *still* believe in magic, it just varies as to what KIND of magic.

BUT!  Unlike Judaism scientology is trying to claw its way up from nothing in an era of unprecedented data.  Gods have always existed in the gaps of knowledge, stuffed into holes where "?" has not been solved by "!".  Everything from why the sun goes down to why the tides go in and out were once hiding holes for gods, now filled with scientific facts and more than ever these facts are easily referenced.  Xenu is trying to grow like mold in an ever-shrinking patch of shadow while all the other, more-established faiths keep trying to hedge him out.

I find it quite amusing to watch.
2014-02-21 12:33:39 PM  
1 votes:

Confabulat: I do understand why Scientologists are a bit defensive though, even though they are whackadoodle nutjobs. I went to the first Anonymous protest in Clearwater but I didn't join the protest; I just wanted to watch. So members of Anonymous noticed me watching and immediately decided I was a Scientologist and started hurling insults at me, much to my amusement. Later I joined up with them and no one would talk to me, even though I swore I wasn't a Scientology spy. It was sort of a weird experience.


Just imagine the trouble you could be in, if both Scientology and 4chan decided they really didn't like you.  At the same time.


farm4.staticflickr.com
2014-02-21 12:31:44 PM  
1 votes:

T Baggins: Shadi: [img.fark.net image 669x358]

I thought that might be a modern, fake caption, but googling the topic, he really did claim tomatoes screamed. (Though there was a good fake caption about his "auditing" the tomato.) I didn't find any consequences of his theory, like scientologists aren't forbidden from eating tomatoes or anything. One article says he experimented with new varieties of tomatoes and sweet corn, using seeds exposed to radioactivity. While he does claim he developed giant, everbearing mutant plants, it all sounds mundanely plausible compared to more famous claims.


As another poster mentioned, the "E-Meter" (the device hooked up to the tomato in that photo) that Scientologists use to detect "emotional charge" is nothing more than an adjustable-sensitivity galvanometer, the same type of instrument that's the basis of EKG machines, lie-detectors, etc; it's essentially just a very sensitive ammeter.  I find it amusing that Hubbard, the self-proclaimed SMARTEST SCIENTIST EVAR!!1!, would fail to realize what was happening when he sliced into an acidic fruit (that has copper electrodes stuck in it) with a dissimilar-metal knife...kids make batteries out of potatoes the same way in 3rd-grade science classes.
2014-02-21 12:18:41 PM  
1 votes:

TheBigJerk: Right now Xenu and the Volcanoes is seen widely as crazy-pants crazicality but a Zombie Jew and an invisible sky monster are totally reasonable and rational, if that were flipped it would be the Catholic Church that was telling people "you can't read the bible until you learn an obscure version of Latin and if you try to learn all the secrets of our church before you are ready you'll get Pneumonia and die."


The problem is that at the tiem of its "fouding" the Zenu story is bonkers.

At the time of christianity's founding a Lich (zombies just eat brains) son fo god was pausible.
2014-02-21 12:00:53 PM  
1 votes:
I used to work in downtown Clearwater and spent a lot of time around Scientologists. They are weirder than you think, and people think they are weird.
2014-02-21 11:55:58 AM  
1 votes:

Man On Pink Corner: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

Same reason anyone joins any other religion.  They're either indoctrinated in early childhood into whatever the local religion happens to be, or they're "converted" by people who pretend to be their friends -- and sometimes actually are their friends -- in a time of personal weakness or upheaval.


Then there's this:  A lot of Scientologists get off on the hypnotic feeling they get from their early auditing  sessions.  So while they're chasing that dragon, the cult has time to get them invested financially and build up the previously mentioned blackmail material.  Even people who have left Scientology still often talk wistfully of the heady days of "going exterior."  Oh, and that bullshiat phrase reminds me:  there's also a real power in people having a common made-up language to make them feel that they're part of something special and exclusive.
2014-02-21 11:33:34 AM  
1 votes:

The Lizard People: x23: how short is Miscavige if he is being dwarfed by the 5'7" Tom Cruise? what is he? like 4'11" or something?

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x464]

Is Cruise really 5'7? Does he wear platform heels in all his movies? How does he get to all his movie sets from way out in the Shire?


There's nothing wrong with being 5'7 :'(
2014-02-21 11:28:45 AM  
1 votes:

fyrewede: IlGreven:
The only difference between a cult and a religion is time and money.

AND how easy it is for you to leave without being either killed in the attempt or hassled and stalked for the rest of your life if you manage to escape.

Scientology is notorious for harassing "defectors."

IMO, every single person who gets roped into this cult needs to be kidnapped and taken someplace to be deprogrammed before they get hurt...


Chicken or egg.  More members = more converts/born-ins = less need to police the ones that get away.  The larger and more established a religion gets the less it has to concern itself with doing all those "cult" things.

Right now Xenu and the Volcanoes is seen widely as crazy-pants crazicality but a Zombie Jew and an invisible sky monster are totally reasonable and rational, if that were flipped it would be the Catholic Church that was telling people "you can't read the bible until you learn an obscure version of Latin and if you try to learn all the secrets of our church before you are ready you'll get Pneumonia and die."

Now you're probably asking, "SO WHAT?!?  They're evil!" and well, you're probably right.  So are the Catholics who promote the spread of AIDS in Africa (indirectly) and the Mormons trying to get gay people killed.  The cult that murders one person in cold blood and the billion-strong religion that indirectly contributes to a million-and-counting ethnic cleansing operation are hard to compare.

Likewise, suppressing ONE bad religion because it is a minority while letting another one run rampant because it's really big chafes against the idea of justice or the ever-popular "rooting for the underdog" meme.
2014-02-21 11:22:34 AM  
1 votes:

lilbjorn: fireclown: Those guys are running a private prison and they need to be forced to stop it.

As long as they call themselves a religion, they're apparently free to do anything they want.


Yeah, and they've won a few lawsuits to that effect.  The principle seems to be that religions are allowed to enforce discipline among their flock. I think the law is in error in this matter, and hope that it is eventually overturned.

You just don't see Methodists holding people against their will, apart from seemingly interminable weekend retreats.

2014-02-21 11:07:55 AM  
1 votes:
IlGreven:
The only difference between a cult and a religion is time and money.

AND how easy it is for you to leave without being either killed in the attempt or hassled and stalked for the rest of your life if you manage to escape.

Scientology is notorious for harassing "defectors."

IMO, every single person who gets roped into this cult needs to be kidnapped and taken someplace to be deprogrammed before they get hurt...
2014-02-21 10:59:26 AM  
1 votes:

El Pachuco: Coincidentally I am reading Inside Scientology, released 2011, which is a detailed history of LRH, the thing he made up, and Miscavige & Friends. Recommended.


Going Clear is also really good. I found the Hubbard connection with Jack Parsons and the Babalon Working pretty interesting.
2014-02-21 10:57:13 AM  
1 votes:

bloobeary: ransack.: It's no more ridiculous than a lot of other religions.

That phrase seems to be dragged out every time someone mentions Scientology. I think it's about time that it was put to rest.

Most religions come from a mixture of folk tales and basic survival rules passed down generation to generation over hundreds of years, and mangled a bit during the journey. They're pretty much what you'd expect any ancient mythology to be after such a long passage of time, warts and all. There is likely to be some nugget of truth at their core, even if the content has been "made better" so many times, that it's about as historically accurate as the tales of Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan and John Henry.

Scientology is bullsh*t through and through. Hubbard created it as a bar bet, wrote it down exactly as it is, and it therefore has no excuse.


Moreover, Dianetics was first advertised as a self-help and psychology book, but when the NJ Board of Psychiatrists wanted to shut his little practice down, he turned it into a religion so they couldn't touch him.

/Source: Playboy's Interview with his son, L. Ron Jr
//It's a must read, L.Ron was nuts
Ant
2014-02-21 10:43:56 AM  
1 votes:

Old enough to know better: This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?


You're introduced to the really whacky stuff very slowly. After you've invested a lot of time and energy (and money) into something, human nature will try to stop you from abandoning what you have invested in, even if it's complete bullshiat.

I mean, there must've been something to it, otherwise you wouldn't have devoted your life to it, right?
2014-02-21 10:36:05 AM  
1 votes:
www.cs.cmu.edu

Turns out the mysterious E-Meter is a plain old galvanometer, which measures electric current. It's a toy or lab equipment for science students, but it's powerful mumbo-jumbo for impressing uneducated, gullible marks.

Coincidentally I am reading Inside Scientology, released 2011, which is a detailed history of LRH, the thing he made up, and Miscavige & Friends. Recommended.

drxym: Think of it like an extremely bad, extremely expensive MMO.


That's about right, in one sentence.  Or MLM.
2014-02-21 10:12:39 AM  
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk

I wonder if she is here...

/Scientology compound near me
//Supposed to be some sort of data archive bunker complete with tacky McMansion
2014-02-21 10:05:40 AM  
1 votes:
On the one hand, I wouldn't put anything past the "Church" of $cientology.

On the other hand, it's the Daily Fail.
2014-02-21 09:16:04 AM  
1 votes:

Gunther: Clint_Torres: People are stupid.

Marcus Aurelius: You don't have to be mentally unstable to join a cult, but it sure helps.

You'd think so, but studies have been done on people who join cults. Generally they're slightly smarter than average and no more prone to mental instability. The unifying factor is that they're approached by the cult when they're vulnerable - maybe they've just moved to a new city and they don't have any friends, maybe they've quit their job to be a housewife and are bored silly as a result, maybe a parent or spouse has just died and they're having trouble dealing with the grief.  Their "mental immune system" is suppressed the same way your actual immune system can be suppressed by stress.


YEah, that's actually the really goddamn scary thing about brainwashing: There's a lot of evidence that suggests that *intelligence is not a defense against brainwashing*.
2014-02-21 09:00:38 AM  
1 votes:
Every time I see this guy:

i1168.photobucket.com

I can't help but think of this:

i1168.photobucket.com

Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! Look around you.
There, on the rocks; a beautiful girl. Come to me, my child...come to me...
That is strength, boy! That is power!
2014-02-21 08:35:36 AM  
1 votes:
When can we get Scientology classified as "not a religion" and thereby no longer subject to First Amendment protection?
2014-02-21 08:12:13 AM  
1 votes:

The Lizard People: x23: how short is Miscavige if he is being dwarfed by the 5'7" Tom Cruise? what is he? like 4'11" or something?

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x464]

Is Cruise really 5'7? Does he wear platform heels in all his movies? How does he get to all his movie sets from way out in the Shire?


All of the publicity says 5'7" but having physically walked by him I think that he is a couple of inches shy of that. Granted I didn't have a tape measure at the time.

All that aside, scientologists are nutters.
2014-02-21 08:00:47 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

I think it's pretty easy to explain.

In the beginning, you're lured in by the very bootstrappy mindset of tackling your own problems and taking control of your life. At this point, there's a lot of support for you from other members, so you begin to develop an attachment to them and grow uncomfortable with outsiders who begin to be seen as people who will weigh you down. My guess is that most people stay at this level for the entirety of their religious life with them.

After a while, you've learned techniques that allow you to control your emotions and this empowers you to act in very aggressive ways without getting caught up in your own sense of humility or empathy. People are there to be used, and you are there to use them. It preys on the tendency of people to go along and get along. The truly sociopathic make it to this level and stay there becoming more sociopathic.

Along the way, you've unwittingly (or wittingly) been divulging your secrets to the church, and any attempt to break away is thwarted by the threat of blackmail or worse.

So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.


it's basically a scam driven on the placebo effect, everything else is fluff
2014-02-21 07:57:36 AM  
1 votes:

Egoy3k: It's really too bad the of all the SF writers in the world that L Ron Hubbard was the one who formed a religion.  Why couldn't it have been Heinlein?

Where Michael Valentine Smith when you need him?


So you're interested in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_All_Worlds ?
2014-02-21 07:33:38 AM  
1 votes:
This is what I think about every time I read about Scientology:

www.useragentman.com
2014-02-21 07:32:11 AM  
1 votes:

jaybeezey: Then perhaps it would be compared to college than a religion.

Religions don't intentionally withhold information about their beliefs from those seeking it out. This is exactly what Scientology does.


That is what puts it firmly in cult territory for me.

AverageAmericanGuy: After a while, you've learned techniques that allow you to control your emotions and this empowers you to act in very aggressive ways without getting caught up in your own sense of humility or empathy


Yeah, don't buy it.
2014-02-21 07:26:35 AM  
1 votes:
You don't have to be mentally unstable to join a cult, but it sure helps.
2014-02-21 06:29:47 AM  
1 votes:

ransack.: IlGreven: Cosmic_Music: if only there were some sort of bureau that could federally investigate this

/who ya gonna call

Yes, I'm sure after the IRS was called out for investigating groups whose primary purpose was to avoid paying taxes, they'll try and challenge the tax-exempt status of a religious organization.  I'm sure no one will have a problem with that.

Look man, I voted for Obama twice, but the people behind that IRS scheme looking into the republican PACs or whatever, they admitted that what they did was wrong and unfair. There's nobody at all out there defending that. Those guys are gone now. So whose face are you trying to rub it in?


Actually, they did their jobs and despite reports - it wasn't Republicans that were targeted. Both sides were targeted with more scrutiny for Democrats (you should read the Nate Silver piece).
2014-02-21 06:21:09 AM  
1 votes:
Sounds like someone needs...POWER OF ATTORNEY!

i218.photobucket.com

He'll take the case!
2014-02-21 05:49:43 AM  
1 votes:

Shadi: [img.fark.net image 669x358]


I thought that might be a modern, fake caption, but googling the topic, he really did claim tomatoes screamed. (Though there was a good fake caption about his "auditing" the tomato.) I didn't find any consequences of his theory, like scientologists aren't forbidden from eating tomatoes or anything. One article says he experimented with new varieties of tomatoes and sweet corn, using seeds exposed to radioactivity. While he does claim he developed giant, everbearing mutant plants, it all sounds mundanely plausible compared to more famous claims.
2014-02-21 05:18:20 AM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?

I give you one of their "you must be a pedophile" routine but I don't have it in me. Just check some of the YouTube vids of people trying to ask questions. They're not pleasant once they get entrenched. In a strange bit of projection, they become what they'd call repressive personalities.



"Politician A stands up on his hind legs in Parliament and brays for a condemnation of Scientology. When we look him over we find crimes -- embezzled funds, moral lapses, a thirst for young boys -- sordid stuff.

"Wife B howls at her husband for attending a Scientology group. We look her up and find she had a baby he didn't know about."

 - L. R. Hubbard
2014-02-21 04:10:28 AM  
1 votes:

IlGreven: Cosmic_Music: if only there were some sort of bureau that could federally investigate this

/who ya gonna call

Yes, I'm sure after the IRS was called out for investigating groups whose primary purpose was to avoid paying taxes, they'll try and challenge the tax-exempt status of a religious organization.  I'm sure no one will have a problem with that.


Emphasis mine.....

/Granted, now I kinda want to know what we'd call a federal organization that was the BFI....
2014-02-21 04:06:24 AM  
1 votes:

Cosmic_Music: if only there were some sort of bureau that could federally investigate this

/who ya gonna call


Yes, I'm sure after the IRS was called out for investigating groups whose primary purpose was to avoid paying taxes, they'll try and challenge the tax-exempt status of a religious organization.  I'm sure no one will have a problem with that.
2014-02-21 03:37:23 AM  
1 votes:
So, the guy who runs Scientolology's wife won't give him head?

Maybe that's why he hangs with Tom Cruise....
2014-02-21 03:31:57 AM  
1 votes:
I felt bad for the cat in the photo.
2014-02-21 03:15:49 AM  
1 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: If ever a cult needed to be Wacoed...


They're just living, breathing examples for the legalization of unrestricted drone strikes.
2014-02-21 03:05:26 AM  
1 votes:
I'm still waiting for Scientology to release the details of Leah Remini's lurid experimentations into lesbianism and chocolate syrup wrestling.
2014-02-21 02:43:48 AM  
1 votes:
Scientology: the tolerant 'religion'.  It's like Christians feeding their own to the lions, without the need for Romans.
 
Displayed 81 of 81 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report