ransack.: No David Miscavige is his wife's missing head
TwistedFark: TheJoe03: Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.A religion with aliens would actually make more sense than the Bible. The real problem with Scientology is that it's way too new so it doesn't have the mythical mystique of the ancient religions have. It's the same issue Mormons have and more people think those two religion are cults than the traditional religions.Yet still, we had one running for president through a major party just a couple years ago.I make no bones about it, I know that all religions are false, but I especially know that Mormonism and Scientology are false. I'd like to make a distinction here - I do not know if there is some super powerful creator, or if humans are actually living in a complicated computer simulation ala the matrix, or whatever, but I do know that religion is false. Omnipotence is false so long as we have free will. You can't have both at the same time. I don't see why anyone is worthy of being worshiped, even if they created me, and especially if they are not omnipotent and double/triple especially if they are and yet refuse to give me direction on what to do and then expect to punish me if I don't do whatever it is that they want me to do. Talk about a complete asshole.Anyway, Mormonism and scientology and other modern day cults are demonstratively false. The fact that they not only exist, but seemingly flourish is a damning indictment of human nature. As a species, we are evidently farking terrible at critical thinking. Sure, there may be the random exception to the rule here and there, but it definitely appears that the majority of the human race is content to sit there, be told what to do, what to think about and to soil their pants on demand.It's farking embarrassing.
TheBigJerk: So are psychic aliens, or at least until the last decade or so. Isaac Asimov was considered a writer of "hard" scifi and his speculative fiction was quite open to the idea of ESP. He was a contemporary of Hubbard and provides a pretty good context to what was "believable" to folks during the creation of Dianetics
TheBigJerk: And like it or not, a majority of Americans *still* believe in magic, it just varies as to what KIND of magic
TheBigJerk: Xenu is trying to grow like mold in an ever-shrinking patch of shadow while all the other, more-established faiths keep trying to hedge him out
TheBigJerk: Hell, the bible is pretty clear that Jesus' followers gave him nearly ALL their property
daemoncan: Is it just me, or....[i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x525]..... is this guy the next Bond Villain?
Old enough to know better: Frederick: I've always wanted to ask a scientologist, why -why did you decide to be a scientologist?This. Especially Hollywood actors. I mean really, Aliens? Is your skepticism threshold really that low?I have a hard enough time buying the stuff in the Bible.
Deucednuisance: TheBigJerk: Hell, the bible is pretty clear that Jesus' followers gave him nearly ALL their propertyUm, point of order: Jesus had already been crucified, resurrected and ascended before the goings-on recorded in Acts. So, converts didn't give it to Him, they gave it to Peter and the Apostles.
El Pachuco: daemoncan: Is it just me, or....[i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x525]..... is this guy the next Bond Villain?[f.edgesuite.net image 425x340]A teeny-tiny Bond villain.Goldpinky?
TheBigJerk: Good job not reading further there son. Glad you can't have more complicated thoughts regarding reprehensible behavior or the nature of casual destruction.
machodonkeywrestler: You can't "know" they are false. You have a belief. A faith one might say.
Gunther: TheBigJerk: Good job not reading further there son. Glad you can't have more complicated thoughts regarding reprehensible behavior or the nature of casual destruction.Yes; clearly my issue with your post was clearly that I'm too mentally limited to think about people doing bad stuff. You really nailed me there.It's farking ridiculous of you to compare Scientology (adherents in the low five figures) with Catholicism (a billion adherents) and contrast levels of harm you think they cause. Obviously Catholicism is going to be responsible for more suffering: there's fifty thousand Catholics for every Scientologist.
mrming: machodonkeywrestler: You can't "know" they are false. You have a belief. A faith one might say.Any theory must have a set of criteria that both prove it true (an ability to predict) as well as false ( negation of said theory). Science makes the tremendous leap of assuming that all observable behavior is ultimately based out of effects that can be observed.Thus, Science deals with and only with knowledge that is knowable. Theories must be falsifiable as well as provable and this must be done within the limits of what is observable. As a theory pretty much all religions fail. Most aren't falsifiable; and none are provable via observation. IE, we can't see God(s) hand directly. Worse, we can't even see a consistent action by any deity in the observable world. IE, no God defends their temple from defilement.As a scientific theory the existence of deities is by virtue of its inability to be falsified, false. Thus I and many others can indeed know without resorting to faith that as far as we understand the observable reality around us there are no Gods. The theory can't stand on its own merits due to being malformed and that is simply that.Can that reality be false? Sure. Science actually highlights that in many areas. Theories regarding reality do in fact change, as well as what is 'known' because of them. We used to believe in ether binding everything to a single time-frame. Now we don't. And its verifiable via observation. Theories come and go. But I believe in them, have faith in them no more than I do in a spork. Once it fails me I find a better one and move on. Tools and math don't require nor demand this belief/faith/devotion that you are attempting to attribute.
2KanZam: That could be slipped into the rhetoric of CoS, seamlessly, I think they call it "Greater Magic"...or maybe lesser, I don't remember.
Wolf892: So what I've figured out is that David Miscavich is a Bond Villian who happens to be the head of an actual evil organization. That's crazy, too bad there aren't any real life Jame Bonds to deal with him. :(
Skirl Hutsenreiter: As to why become a Scientologist - nowadays anyone who can google can find out their whole crazy belief system in no time, but it used to be a closely guarded secret. They sued the shiat out of the first people who publicized it.Rather than presenting everything all at once, which any sane person would reject, they'd get you to pay to audit until you reached the next level, you'd be fed another little dribble of the theology behind it all. By the time you had the whole picture, you were already heavily invested in it, both spiritually and financially. It's very hard for someone to admit that they've paid tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars over decades to hear a bunch of bullshiat - much easier to pretend it isn't bullshiat, especially when every step of the way you only have to accept a tiny amount more bullshiat. Combine that with all the collected blackmail material (it's like if the Catholic Church made you write out your confessions, filed them away and later said they'd have to tell everyone that horrible secret you've kept all these years if you ever left) and you have a pretty good recipe for once you're sucked in, you're all in, crazy shiat be damned.
TheBigJerk: Isaac Asimov was considered a writer of "hard" scifi and his speculative fiction was quite open to the idea of ESP. He was a contemporary of Hubbard and provides a pretty good context to what was "believable" to folks during the creation of Dianetics.
fireclown: El Pachuco: daemoncan: Is it just me, or....[i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x525]..... is this guy the next Bond Villain?[f.edgesuite.net image 425x340]A teeny-tiny Bond villain.Goldpinky?wow. He might really BE shorter than Tom Cruise.
theropod: When can we get Scientology classified as "not a religion" and thereby no longer subject to First Amendment protection?
give me doughnuts: The googles list his height as 5' 5".
omeganuepsilon: Felgraf: YEah, that's actually the really goddamn scary thing about brainwashing: There's a lot of evidence that suggests that *intelligence is not a defense against brainwashing*.Depends on what you deem intelligence to be.More pointedly:A lot of "smart" people can fall into believing anything, because they desire for it to be true, the subconscious makes it happen. Rational intelligence is irrelevant. The apt involved trait would be self awareness, or rather the part of it that deals with the capacity for introspection.You may have to be smart to be self aware in that regard, but being smart does not necessarily include self awareness.
generallyso: It sounds like your criteria is the number of people providing the source material and how long before modern record-keeping they lived rather than the fact one supposes invisible space ghosts and the other supposes invisible sky wizards.
fyrewede: IlGreven:The only difference between a cult and a religion is time and money.AND how easy it is for you to leave without being either killed in the attempt or hassled and stalked for the rest of your life if you manage to escape.Scientology is notorious for harassing "defectors."
namatad: Indoctrination is brainwashing, wrapped with the authority of religion.I wonder if the requirement is intelligence to BREAK the indoctrination.
AverageAmericanGuy: Khazar-Khum: AverageAmericanGuy:So it's not a religion that asks you to accept it all at once. You're gradually eased in. The teachings are both allegorical and prescriptive. You learn how to take control of your own life and emotions, and the sense of belonging and support keeps most people involved, much like a regular religion.Except that, unlike every other religion, you have to pay through the teeth for the enlightenment. If you go to a Rabbi and ask him about Judaism, he'll gladly talk to you for free. Same with every priest, pastor, imam, priestess or whatever you want. Many will happily give you information, maybe even a copy of their holy books--which, incidentally, can also be found in any library, or openly for sale. In Scientology, you have to pay for the books, which cannot be found anywhere else and are not sold to outsiders. If you feel awful and need to talk, Pastor is there for you. In Scientology, you have to pay. And pay, and pay, and pay. It's not at all unusual to hear of people who sank several hundred thousand dollars into it.And a professor of English may love to chat with you about Shakespeare on Sunday afternoons at the park, but if you really want to learn at a deep level you're going to have to pay up.You ever see how much college costs these days?
omeganuepsilon: namatad: Indoctrination is brainwashing, wrapped with the authority of religion.I wonder if the requirement is intelligence to BREAK the indoctrination.That would fall in line with what I posted.Intelligence wouldn't guarantee the ability to analyze your own thoughts.*shrugs*As I said, it depends on how you define intelligence. Some of our greatest minds are also religious. Some of those minds aren't necessarily all that sharp, but have a good memory. The ability to rapidly recall pertinent information is not necessarily equal to the ability to perceive concepts and understand the inter-workings of things.Myself...I'm fairly smart, but at times my memory is poor. On an IQ or asvab test, I score good on patterns, mechanics, things of that nature, very reliably from test to test. Math is so/so, because I don't necessarily recall the relevant methodologies. Not so hot on shifting data from column A to column B or word associations.(some of the words I've seen employed are off the wall obscure terms, considering I actually read a LOT and this is not an area I typically can't recall).I love psychology though. I understand some aspects of it that a rocket scientist astro-physicist CERN / Hadron collider engineer may not.More shortly put, there are varying areas of "intelligence" and no accurate overall test. They're all rough approximations, some of which are heavily dependent on whether or not your education included a specific minor detail within a broader topic, relegating it almost to trivia.Some people can barely walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time, yet they can shift data from A to B like no other.Is that "intelligence"?I personally don't think so. I'm of the variety that thinks calculators should be allowed on tests, as well as reference materials such as encyclopedia's or the internet at large. Of course, your test's would not only be "why did X happen", but also "what would have happened if it had been Y".We should not be te ...
Hickory-smoked: College is a religion, now?
namatad: ALAS, the discussion devolves into fights about IQ, not being able to "TEST IT", and cultural blah blah blah .
namatad: n the end, my only question is, can I have an "intelligent" discussion with you? On pretty much any topic?YAY
AndTheyAllLived: Oh, and that bullshiat phrase reminds me: there's also a real power in people having a common made-up language to make them feel that they're part of something special and exclusive.
Biner: AndTheyAllLived: Oh, and that bullshiat phrase reminds me: there's also a real power in people having a common made-up language to make them feel that they're part of something special and exclusive.Very true. There are a lot of Scientologists who can't have a conversation without using the made-up terms. The special lingo adds to their sense of belonging and exclusivity. I used to be very conversant in Scientologese, but part of my job was to review and edit promo material that was going out to the public, and making sure it was expressed in common "wog" terms, and not filled with Hubbardisms. (Many of the terms were existing common English, but with archaic usage instead of more modern usage. If you dug deep enough in the Oxford English Dictionary, there were examples of the word or term used "Hubbard style", but they'd only make sense to language historians and Scientologists.)
furiousidiot: ...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power or more ease or a snarling defense of the power to a critic or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark or the glorious blaze of the whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise.He doesn't have to know all the bad news and if he's a power really, he won't ask all the time, "What are all those dead bodies doing at the door?" And if you are clever, you never let it be thought HE killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. "Well, boss, about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me."When you move off a point of power, pay all your obligations on the nail, empower all your friends completely and move off with your pockets full of artillery, potential blackmail on every erstwhile rival, unlimited funds in your private account and the addresses of experienced assassins and go live in Bulgravia and bribe the police. ---L. Ron Hubbard
OooShiny: Biner: I spent nearly 20 years as a non-Scientologist (wog) working at a middle-management level in a company run by Scientologists. (Using policies written by Hubbard.) I know more about Scientology than a lot of Scientologists. I've worked with Hubbard's daughter. My sister is in the Sea Org. So I'm pretty familiar with Scientology.Any thoughts on exactly what the 'religion' part of Scientology is comprised of?
ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: How is it the organization that broke into IRS offices gets to be tax exempt, again?
TwistedFark: OooShiny: Biner: I spent nearly 20 years as a non-Scientologist (wog) working at a middle-management level in a company run by Scientologists. (Using policies written by Hubbard.) I know more about Scientology than a lot of Scientologists. I've worked with Hubbard's daughter. My sister is in the Sea Org. So I'm pretty familiar with Scientology.Any thoughts on exactly what the 'religion' part of Scientology is comprised of?They have their own creation myth that involves aliens, spirits and nuclear bombs.I shiat you not.
generallyso: Cerebral Ballsy: Bullsh*t is bullsh*t. And all religion is bullsh*t.Scientology though.. That's a cult.All religions start as cults so its not especially meaningful to label them as one or the other.
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