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(The New Republic)   Evangelical Patrick Henry College, forbids students to smoke, drink, swear, dance or even date without written parental permission; and of course, in keeping with biblical principles, if you are raped it's your own fault, you filthy harlot   (newrepublic.com) divider line 252
    More: Sick, Patrick Henry, Patrick Henry College, statement of faith, Strategic Intelligence Program, Moral Majority, 2007 in literature, Hanna Rosin, modern architecture  
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9605 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2014 at 4:31 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-21 12:21:19 AM

DubyaHater: tl; dr..... Fundie school, operating under a thin veneer of moral superiority, blames the woman for enticing men to commit sexual crimes. Like this is a surprise to anyone.


They had a few drinks and he dry humped her in the car for a minute.
 
2014-02-21 12:31:41 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: gnosis301: Stop it, you guys are freaking me out.

At night they say you can see shadows behind the walls and plumes of ghostly smoke rising from the roots of the trees. If you stop for a while you'll hear the anguished cries of the damned souls that failed to heed the warning signs, and so must now call nightly for fresh blood to satiate the gods and demons that call that foul place home.


Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Patrick Henry College, and whatever walked there, walked alone.
 
2014-02-21 01:47:11 AM
Why is dancing considered worse than dating?
 
2014-02-21 02:18:36 AM

The hopeless imp: davidhyde: I don't understand how a school can refuse the GI Bill. That is a benefit a veteran earned for his (or her) service and should be between the veteran and the government. Can somebody please explain?

Some vets are jackasses who - just like when they were serving - ruin things for everyone else. They convince the school's financial department somehow that the G.I. Bill is directly dispensed to them, and then they pay the school. So the school files the paperwork and the student gets paid for going to the school, and the school never gets paid.
Enough jackasses do it and the school refuses the G.I.Bill.
The good news is that this mostly only happens in schools that suck anyway. The others do the sensible thing and get someone who knows how veteran's benefits work.
There is no requirement that the school accept it, and in fact the VA can refuse to approve it for a particular school.


That's not how the current GI bill works. Under the new GI bill, VA pays the college directly for tuition, and the veteran gets living stipend and book allowance.

If VA gets enough complaints about a school, hey refuse to send tuition to the school. Also, the school can, if they want, refuse to accept payment from VA.
 
2014-02-21 02:36:40 AM
If you believe that

* men have uncontrollable sexual desires and will rape if provoked

and

* it's women who need to be shut away to protect the men

then you might be a wingnut.

/Whether you're thumping on a Bible or a Qur'an as you spew this crap makes no difference
//Wingnuts is wingnuts
///A-wing-a-nut a-wing-a-nut a-wing-a-nut a-wing-a-nut
////Eee dee dee dee, dee DEE dee dee dee, slashies all the waaaaaaay
 
2014-02-21 02:43:54 AM

Haoie: Why is dancing considered worse than dating?


Because dancing leads to sex. Chaste dating means sitting side by side on a couch leaving enough room between you for the Holy Spirit.
 
2014-02-21 04:17:39 AM

CivicMindedFive: Didn't anybody RTFA??  The "rape", subtarmitter, was something along the lines of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv4YAx1nqDM

It might be some kind of crime, but it's not an OMG!!! RAPIST GOES FREE event either.  Don't let your hatred of all things Christian make you lose your collective fark heads out there.


Calling these people Christian slanders Christianity.
 
2014-02-21 04:42:04 AM

dfenstrate: Burning_Monk: dfenstrate: Burning_Monk: I think you are confusing Leftist with Liberal.

Liberal has meant leftist since the term was hijacked by leftists decades ago.

'Liberal' is an accurate description of the left's position on sexual permissiveness and freedom from personal responsibility. In every other area, leftists are totalitarian-wannabees.

Stalin, that crazy liberal.

/rolleyes

Stalin's Era was about when American leftists started corrupting the language by appropriating the term 'liberal.' As a tactic, it's obviously worked, and you're a fine example.


Dafuq am I reading?
 
2014-02-21 05:02:52 AM

Beowoolfie: I can't understand the PHC morality. It's illogical. IF one accepts what their morality claims women are, then shouldn't rape of a virgin be theft of a valuable "piece" of the girl's father's property?


Yes it should.  And I think it's safe to say that this is just how the rape of a well connected virgin is already viewed and handled among the better class.

This boy wont find a club that will have him in his lifetime.
 
2014-02-21 07:22:58 AM

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: The hopeless imp: davidhyde: I don't understand how a school can refuse the GI Bill. That is a benefit a veteran earned for his (or her) service and should be between the veteran and the government. Can somebody please explain?

Some vets are jackasses who - just like when they were serving - ruin things for everyone else. They convince the school's financial department somehow that the G.I. Bill is directly dispensed to them, and then they pay the school. So the school files the paperwork and the student gets paid for going to the school, and the school never gets paid.
Enough jackasses do it and the school refuses the G.I.Bill.
The good news is that this mostly only happens in schools that suck anyway. The others do the sensible thing and get someone who knows how veteran's benefits work.
There is no requirement that the school accept it, and in fact the VA can refuse to approve it for a particular school.

That's not how the current GI bill works. Under the new GI bill, VA pays the college directly for tuition, and the veteran gets living stipend and book allowance.

If VA gets enough complaints about a school, hey refuse to send tuition to the school. Also, the school can, if they want, refuse to accept payment from VA.




That's true, but the VA won't let any school get funds. After the new GI Bill was established, plenty of shiatty for profit schools realized that veterans are guaranteed payment, and set the tuition at exactly the benefit payout and aggressively marketed vets.

You have to go through a pretty rigorous procedure to be allowed to accept VA Benefits.
 
2014-02-21 08:53:37 AM
I couldn't read the article, it seems the writer had aspirations to be a novel writer instead of just concisely summarizing the facts.  All it was missing was "It was a dark and stormy night."

Rape is bad, false reporting of rape is bad, blaming the victim is bad, not prosecuting rapists is bad, schools handling rape allegations internally is bad, hypocritical church/schools are bad.

I'm sure I missed some bad things and generalized, but I can't be bothered to decipher that wreck of an article.
 
2014-02-21 09:18:06 AM

rynthetyn: Haoie: Why is dancing considered worse than dating?

Because dancing leads to sex. Chaste dating means sitting side by side on a couch leaving enough room between you for the Holy Spirit.


These are, by and large, people who have taken the whole "purity" concept all the way to 11 so that now many of them are pressured to save even their first KISS until their marriage, a concept I think even Victorians would have found prudish
 
2014-02-21 09:33:06 AM
Purcellville (and Loudon County, for that matter) is a weird hybrid of many types:

Descendants of the original landowners. Some are very wealthy and at the top of the social hierarchy, and some are not wealthy and resent being priced out by the newcomers.

Very rich types who may or may not dabble in things like running a winery or brewery or keeping horses for competition.

Artistic types who also have money, either family money or consulting gigs (IT or defense contracting). They often also have a condo or apartment closer to DC.

Rich libertarians. Their main social activity is hanging with each other and fuming how oppressed they are under Obama. Most of their money was made in defense contracting, AOL, real estate, or vampire economics. Very little social pollination with the fundies or teabaggers, though they do come together for political purposes.

Hippy dippy farmer types. Not many left these days, they've been priced out.

Bedroom commenters who take the MARC train in to DC or Rockville. They bought out here because they were priced out closer in, but didn't want to live in Fredneck.

Teabaggers. Either wealthy, or associated with Patrick Henry, or both.

Patrick Henry top management. Arrogant and creepy.

A vibrant Hispanic community. They built all the construction in the last 20 years, and preform domestic service. They're tolerated because they're vital, and as long as they keep a low origin even the teabaggers won't bring them up too often as a target.
 
2014-02-21 09:59:28 AM
Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-21 10:12:46 AM

Magorn: I drive by this place a lot as it is in the next town over from me, and I sear I never drive by without feeling a creepy shudder down my spine,  there is something   wrong about that place that is totally at odds with the fairly beautiful campus buildings that face the roads.  Part of it is I never actually see any people on campus...walking to class, hanging out on the quad, etc...


I just thank god this place wasn't around when I was growing up neo-con, this college has a creepy cult-like feel compared to the other conservative colleges like Liberty.

/Ideological Echo Chambers are horrible
//Same goes for super-liberal ones as well
 
2014-02-21 10:53:06 AM

ikanreed: Has anyone noticed that there aren't liberal schools where the rules say you have to obey liberal doctrine?


Oh Bullshiat, try to get a good grade supporting Reagan in a super-libby school.

Both sides are turning into the new religion in America, and the level of derp is just going to get worse.

/Both sides are bad, so vote for accountability
 
2014-02-21 11:22:43 AM

shortymac: Oh Bullshiat, try to get a good grade supporting Reagan in a super-libby school.


I'm sorry, did you write a bad paper once?
//Going against the professors is expected.  They know you're still learning.
 
2014-02-21 11:38:18 AM

ikanreed: shortymac: Oh Bullshiat, try to get a good grade supporting Reagan in a super-libby school.

I'm sorry, did you write a bad paper once?
//Going against the professors is expected.  They know you're still learning.


It really varies on the professor/teacher.  I taught my daughters how to play that game.  Have a liberal teacher, write your essay topic on how your gay friend is oppressed.  Have a conservative teacher, write your essay topic on personal responsibility.  Have a neutral teacher, write your topic on something that interests you.

Never assume teachers won't ding you in small ways for challenging their world view.
 
2014-02-21 11:39:20 AM

LectertheChef: One thing I've never understood, is why do people who are assaulted on college campuses never call real cops? They always treat the campus as if it's sovereign territory or something. It's not, it's just a farking college campus, the campus "police" are rent-a-cops, the dean and student body president have no legal authority to handle a criminal investigation. Yet time after time, I hear about some woman who's raped on a campus, and allows the school do its own form of pretend justice, which it invariably farks up.

So yeah, any woman who's raped on a college campus, don't tell the rent-a-cops, don't go to your RA, call 911.


I asked this in a similar thread and was told that the regular cops will just call the school and have them handle it.

It's some weirdo jurisdiction rule, it also has been applied to other emergencies and student deaths.
 
2014-02-21 11:45:29 AM

dbrunker: Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?

[img.fark.net image 302x167]


lelz u gaiz, u gaiz

.... christians...

amirite ?!?

LELZ LELZ LELZ ROFLBBQ
 
2014-02-21 12:12:21 PM

Dinjiin: LectertheChef: One thing I've never understood, is why do people who are assaulted on college campuses never call real cops? They always treat the campus as if it's sovereign territory or something. It's not, it's just a farking college campus, the campus "police" are rent-a-cops, the dean and student body president have no legal authority to handle a criminal investigation. Yet time after time, I hear about some woman who's raped on a campus, and allows the school do its own form of pretend justice, which it invariably farks up.

Look at how crimes are reported in grade school.  When a bully corners you in the hall and punches you in the eye, do you call the police or do you notify the principal's office?  To me, it seems as if we're taught that while in school, you go through administrators.  Seems to carry over to university.


/wonders how the police would respond to a child calling them from an elementary school to report an assault without involvement from school administrators


My Parents did it once because they school refused to do anything about a particular bully (this went on for months and was pretty severe), the cops showed up to his house and talked to his parents about what was going on. Bully's Mom called us up and apologized, she swore nobody at the school told her what was going on and the bully was being punished.

Granted, this was in the 90's and before the whole "cops arresting/tazering kids (under-10)" trend that is currently happening.
 
2014-02-21 12:14:18 PM
There's a clue in the headline that contradicts the whole shebang; did you self-righteous anti-religious hypocrites spot it?  No, of course not.

"Patrick Henry College forbids students to smoke, drink, swear, dance, even date..."

FTA:
- "Claire befriended a group of juniors who sometimes broke school rules by drinking. The group included a student named John ..."

- "One winter night in 2010, John and Claire were together in his car in Purcellville."

- "The first weekend in May, Claire and the group of juniors headed for a small lake near PHC's campus. John bought the alcohol. Claire got tipsy, and John offered to give her a ride back to campus. "If I had been sober, I would have had the intuitive sense to keep from putting myself back in a car alone with him..."

- "John, meanwhile, was suspended for a semester for drinking and for what he says the administration called "gross negligence for the concern of another" in not making sure Claire got back safely into her dorm."

- "...a young woman who attended Patrick Henry between 2004 and 2008. The student fell asleep at an off-campus party where there had been drinking and was awoken by a male PHC student assaulting her. She says she reported the incident to Patrick Henry. "The administration encouraged me to not go to the police and said that, because alcohol was involved and I was violating the rules there..."

- "He invited her to get more comfortable and join him on the bed, which she did. At some point, Sarah fell asleep while reading."

- "You are in part responsible for what happened, because you put yourself in a compromising situation," Corbitt said, according to Sarah. "Actions have consequences."

- "...Stasi Eldredge tells a cautionary tale of studying abroad in college, saying she was a "rebellious, unwise woman" who "put myself in a dangerous position":
After enjoying a few too many drinks at a local bar, my girlfriend and I accepted a ride back to the hotel from the men we had been drinking with. You must be shaking your head as you read this, knowing what was coming. I am. Their offered ride did not lead us back to the hotel, but instead to a private location where I was raped."

=======

So here's the reality:  She knew the rules, she broke the rules repeatedly, and she was unhappy with the results.  What if she had just followed the rules?  One thing you learn when you study science is that action leads to reaction and cause to effect.  The Bible indicates this too (even before our beloved Isaac Newton!):

1 Cor. 15:33 - "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits."

and

Gal 6:7-9 "Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; because the one sowing with a view to the flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit."

So if she were really a Christian, she'd be mindful of these two scriptures.  She wouldn't get "tipsy" (drunk), she wouldn't be alone with this boy, she wouldn't associate with "friends" who break the rules, she wouldn't get drunk again and be alone with this same boy again.  When you play Russian roulette, there's only so many times you can pull the trigger before you will die.  Then who do you blame?  The gun manufacturer?  Don't be stupid.

You notice how both scriptures start with "Do not be misled"?  The Bible says not to get drunk.  Most of you like to get drunk, so therefore the Bible is wrong and stupid and you are right and smart.  Do not mislead yourself.  Drunk is bad even if you think it's good.  Feel free to keep pulling that trigger but don't start whining afterwards "But I didn't mean to (kill those people with my car/get raped/get liver damage/whatever)!"  Only an idiot ignores warnings, just like these various idiotic men and women ignored the rules designed to prevent even the potential for abuse to occur.

Take some personal responsibility, people!
 
2014-02-21 12:24:17 PM

geek_mars: FTFA: The dean insisted that she take a psychological evaluation, then called her back to the Office of Student Life, got her parents on speakerphone, and made her tell them about the assault. When she choked up, the student says, Corbitt cut in to finish the job. Then the dean informed her parents that she was unfit for PHC and needed to be retrieved immediately. Her father flew out the following day and whisked her away, says the student.

This, to me, is the most disturbing part of this article. That a father could come and remove his daughter from that place is great; that he could do so without raising hell from one end of that administration to the other is shocking to me (the father of three daughters). Considering as how the tale of his daughter's assault was related to him over the phone, it seems like he'd have shown up with the cops (or a baseball bat) and ensured that someone took his daughter's rape seriously enough to at least perform a proper investigation.


It's why I am so thankful that while my parents are Neo-Cons, they where also "old-school feminists*" and taught be to be strong, defend myself, get an education and not have to rely on a man.

My parents told me that if a man ever tried to hurt me they'd mortgage the house and hire the best lawyers money could buy. They always had my back.

The girls at PHU seem to have been taught to be so farking submissive and wilting flowers it makes me cry. No girl should have to go through that, it's freaking Sharia law and we know how horrible that is.

/AKA Actual Feminists, just not the femin-nazi kind
 
2014-02-21 12:38:08 PM

Magorn: rynthetyn: Haoie: Why is dancing considered worse than dating?

Because dancing leads to sex. Chaste dating means sitting side by side on a couch leaving enough room between you for the Holy Spirit.

These are, by and large, people who have taken the whole "purity" concept all the way to 11 so that now many of them are pressured to save even their first KISS until their marriage, a concept I think even Victorians would have found prudish


In the evangelical movement there's a bunch of attention whoring going on to see who is the most "pure", instead of actually focusing on Jesus' teachings.

"I was a virgin until marriage"
"Oh Yeah, well I didn't even kiss my husband until marriage!"

"I'm a stay-at-home Mom and care for my 3 kids."
"Oh Yeah, well, We're quiverfull and are going to have 20 little Christian White babies and home-school them all!"

/
Deistic Christian
//WTF happened to my faith?
 
2014-02-21 12:40:13 PM

dbrunker: Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?

[img.fark.net image 302x167]


Here you go:

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB) 

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

YAY GOD!!!
 
2014-02-21 12:41:32 PM

Githerax: Take some personal responsibility, people!


Your opinion might be valid someday when you live under your own personal theocracy.  The state and local governments we currently have don't allow you to rape, at will, people who have made poor decisions.  I'm a huge fan of personal responsibility, but you're applying it indiscriminately to only one party here.
 
2014-02-21 01:31:08 PM

Githerax: Take some personal responsibility, people!


So what you are saying is that because she broke some rules then it is ok to sexually assault her.

I guess when a woman cuts me off when I'm driving down the road, by your logic, it would be ok for me to dry hump her. She did break the rules by cutting me off ... she needs to "Take some personal responsibility"

/ I don't know why people look at fossils when trying to study cavemen. They live among us ... they are known as "religious"
 
2014-02-21 01:39:03 PM

Githerax: Take some personal responsibility, people!


img.fark.net25.media.tumblr.comupload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-02-21 02:00:35 PM
Githerax:
Take some personal responsibility, people!

I can't tell if you're a troll, a truly horrible human being, or both.
 
2014-02-21 02:05:41 PM

flondrix: ikanreed: Has anyone noticed that there aren't liberal schools where the rules say you have to obey liberal doctrine?

I'm sure there are a lot of schools with a campus code of conduct that forbids harassing anyone on the basis of gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation, and bans the use of all manner of slurs.  Wouldn't that qualify as requiring students to "obey liberal doctrine"?

Not

harassing people is a "liberal doctrine" now? Huh.
 
2014-02-21 02:13:17 PM

shortymac: Magorn: rynthetyn: Haoie: Why is dancing considered worse than dating?

Because dancing leads to sex. Chaste dating means sitting side by side on a couch leaving enough room between you for the Holy Spirit.

These are, by and large, people who have taken the whole "purity" concept all the way to 11 so that now many of them are pressured to save even their first KISS until their marriage, a concept I think even Victorians would have found prudish

In the evangelical movement there's a bunch of attention whoring going on to see who is the most "pure", instead of actually focusing on Jesus' teachings.

"I was a virgin until marriage"
"Oh Yeah, well I didn't even kiss my husband until marriage!"

"I'm a stay-at-home Mom and care for my 3 kids."
"Oh Yeah, well, We're quiverfull and are going to have 20 little Christian White babies and home-school them all!"

/Deistic Christian
//WTF happened to my faith?


Still waiting for "oh yeah? Well I didn't have sex until after I had my first born!".

/hey, the precedent for crazy has been set.
 
2014-02-21 02:15:11 PM

not_an_indigo: shortymac: Magorn: rynthetyn: Haoie: Why is dancing considered worse than dating?

Because dancing leads to sex. Chaste dating means sitting side by side on a couch leaving enough room between you for the Holy Spirit.

These are, by and large, people who have taken the whole "purity" concept all the way to 11 so that now many of them are pressured to save even their first KISS until their marriage, a concept I think even Victorians would have found prudish

In the evangelical movement there's a bunch of attention whoring going on to see who is the most "pure", instead of actually focusing on Jesus' teachings.

"I was a virgin until marriage"
"Oh Yeah, well I didn't even kiss my husband until marriage!"

"I'm a stay-at-home Mom and care for my 3 kids."
"Oh Yeah, well, We're quiverfull and are going to have 20 little Christian White babies and home-school them all!"

/Deistic Christian
//WTF happened to my faith?

Still waiting for "oh yeah? Well I didn't have sex until after I had my first born!".

/hey, the precedent for crazy has been set.


Yeah but then they'd all have to sing Ave Maria and You know how the evangelicals feel about Marianist devotions
 
2014-02-21 02:32:16 PM

Dragonflew: dbrunker: Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?


[img.fark.net image 302x167]


Here you go:


(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)


If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


YAY GOD!!!



In our society today if a woman says no to sex and a man continues anyway then it's considered non-consensual (rape) and if the woman doesn't say no then it's considered consensual (not rape).   The  difference between that and the Bible verse (other than the punishment) is the word "help" instead of the word "no".  See, what we're looking for here is a Bible verse that says something like um... idunno... "If a woman shall be in the City and shown her immodesty to all and a man lay with her, though she cry out for help, she shall have behaved foolishly and lain with him and shall be taken out of the gate of the city and stoned."  Can you find something along those lines?
 
2014-02-21 03:23:04 PM

dbrunker: Dragonflew: dbrunker: Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?


[img.fark.net image 302x167]


Here you go:


(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)


If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


YAY GOD!!!


In our society today if a woman says no to sex and a man continues anyway then it's considered non-consensual (rape) and if the woman doesn't say no then it's considered consensual (not rape).   The  difference between that and the Bible verse (other than the punishment) is the word "help" instead of the word "no".  See, what we're looking for here is a Bible verse that says something like um... idunno... "If a woman shall be in the City and shown her immodesty to all and a man lay with her, though she cry out for help, she shall have behaved foolishly and lain with him and shall be taken out of the gate of the city and stoned."  Can you find something along those lines?


blogs.vso.org.uk

I already spent 10 seconds typing "bible rape fault woman" into Google, I am not going waste any more time with your foul book that you'll just bend to match your own meaning anyway.
 
2014-02-21 03:34:55 PM
Really?  Twice this girl was kissed and dry humped while she and her 'attacker' had all their clothes on.  Both times according to TFA she did not object to his advances.

Now it is being called RAPE.

IF anything TFA is making the case FOR Todd Akin's comments about legitimate  rape.
 
2014-02-21 03:46:30 PM
patrick767:  Not harassing people is a "liberal doctrine" now? Huh.

Conservatives are now claiming that anti-bullying rules violate their free exercise of religion, and call such rules part of the "liberal agenda".  So yeah, not harassing people is apparently a liberal agenda now.
 
2014-02-21 04:35:55 PM

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: The hopeless imp: davidhyde: I don't understand how a school can refuse the GI Bill. That is a benefit a veteran earned for his (or her) service and should be between the veteran and the government. Can somebody please explain?

Some vets are jackasses who - just like when they were serving - ruin things for everyone else. They convince the school's financial department somehow that the G.I. Bill is directly dispensed to them, and then they pay the school. So the school files the paperwork and the student gets paid for going to the school, and the school never gets paid.
Enough jackasses do it and the school refuses the G.I.Bill.
The good news is that this mostly only happens in schools that suck anyway. The others do the sensible thing and get someone who knows how veteran's benefits work.
There is no requirement that the school accept it, and in fact the VA can refuse to approve it for a particular school.

That's not how the current GI bill works. Under the new GI bill, VA pays the college directly for tuition, and the veteran gets living stipend and book allowance.

If VA gets enough complaints about a school, hey refuse to send tuition to the school. Also, the school can, if they want, refuse to accept payment from VA.


Exactly. But some schools aren't aware of this, mostly because they have NO contact with the VA. It's weird, because most schools are tripping over each other to get veterans in BECAUSE of the G.I.Bill.
 
2014-02-21 04:42:18 PM

pdee: Really?  Twice this girl was kissed and dry humped while she and her 'attacker' had all their clothes on.  Both times according to TFA she did not object to his advances.

Now it is being called RAPE.

IF anything TFA is making the case FOR Todd Akin's comments about legitimate  rape.


This happens a lot among the ultra religious. The woman doesn't understand what's going on because her attacker cannot POSSIBLY be doing what he's doing. I believe it happens a lot more than is reported because the victims believe the incident was their fault.
Just because a woman doesn't say no doesn't mean she consented.
 
2014-02-21 04:52:06 PM

The hopeless imp: pdee: Really?  Twice this girl was kissed and dry humped while she and her 'attacker' had all their clothes on.  Both times according to TFA she did not object to his advances.

Now it is being called RAPE.

IF anything TFA is making the case FOR Todd Akin's comments about legitimate  rape.

This happens a lot among the ultra religious. The woman doesn't understand what's going on because her attacker cannot POSSIBLY be doing what he's doing. I believe it happens a lot more than is reported because the victims believe the incident was their fault.
Just because a woman doesn't say no doesn't mean she consented.


If she doesn't no or please stop or wait I don't want to do this or something how is the guy supposed to know she hasn't consented?
 
2014-02-21 05:00:13 PM

patrick767: Githerax:
Take some personal responsibility, people!

I can't tell if you're a troll, a truly horrible human being, or both.


I can't tell what part of applying the benefit of other people's experience to avoid problems you don't agree with.  Must be the "avoid problems" part.  How's that working out for you?
 
2014-02-21 05:08:31 PM

dbrunker: Dragonflew: dbrunker: Maybe subby is being just sarcastic (that's fine) but just in case he isn't can someone point me to a book, chapter and verse in the Bible that says rape is a woman's fault?


[img.fark.net image 302x167]


Here you go:


(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)


If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


YAY GOD!!!


In our society today if a woman says no to sex and a man continues anyway then it's considered non-consensual (rape) and if the woman doesn't say no then it's considered consensual (not rape).   The  difference between that and the Bible verse (other than the punishment) is the word "help" instead of the word "no".  See, what we're looking for here is a Bible verse that says something like um... idunno... "If a woman shall be in the City and shown her immodesty to all and a man lay with her, though she cry out for help, she shall have behaved foolishly and lain with him and shall be taken out of the gate of the city and stoned."  Can you find something along those lines?


So, to be clear, you're ok with the woman in the bible verse, as written, being stoned to death for being raped?

If she's too afraid of her attacker to cry out or if she's down in a basement and nobody can hear her cries then she deserves to die horribly. This is your position, right?
 
2014-02-21 05:22:16 PM

pdee: If she doesn't no or please stop or wait I don't want to do this or something how is the guy supposed to know she hasn't consented?


By not assuming silence means consent.
It's certainly more confusing than someone assertive enough to just say "no", but no matter how horny you are, you can't assume your new partner is DTF unless they say so or are active, enthusiastic participants. Making those assumptions is assholish at best, sexual assault at worst.
 
2014-02-21 05:23:42 PM

pdee: The hopeless imp: pdee: Really?  Twice this girl was kissed and dry humped while she and her 'attacker' had all their clothes on.  Both times according to TFA she did not object to his advances.

Now it is being called RAPE.

IF anything TFA is making the case FOR Todd Akin's comments about legitimate  rape.

This happens a lot among the ultra religious. The woman doesn't understand what's going on because her attacker cannot POSSIBLY be doing what he's doing. I believe it happens a lot more than is reported because the victims believe the incident was their fault.
Just because a woman doesn't say no doesn't mean she consented.

If she doesn't no or please stop or wait I don't want to do this or something how is the guy supposed to know she hasn't consented?


I'm not sure how that's ever in question. Then again, I never assume the women working retail are flirting with me.
 
2014-02-21 05:59:52 PM

Inchoate: pdee: If she doesn't no or please stop or wait I don't want to do this or something how is the guy supposed to know she hasn't consented?

By not assuming silence means consent.
It's certainly more confusing than someone assertive enough to just say "no", but no matter how horny you are, you can't assume your new partner is DTF unless they say so or are active, enthusiastic participants. Making those assumptions is assholish at best, sexual assault at worst.


Even by your standard the guy in TFA stopped after a minute or 2 without removing any of his clothes or hers.  I still cant see how this rises even to assault much less rape.
 
2014-02-21 06:12:02 PM

pdee: Even by your standard the guy in TFA stopped after a minute or 2 without removing any of his clothes or hers. I still cant see how this rises even to assault much less rape.


So it's OK if a huge dude starts rubbing his cock all over you for a minute or two while you're too shocked to react. Got it.
 
2014-02-21 07:16:46 PM
If a big dude tries to rub his cock on me im going to tell him to get the fark off me.  According to TFA the dude was her best friend if she is 'too shocked to react' and it takes him a minute or 2 to see that she is not into it I still say no crime has been committed


/context counts.
 
2014-02-21 07:58:58 PM

Farking Canuck: Githerax: Take some personal responsibility, people!

So what you are saying is that because she broke some rules then it is ok to sexually assault her.

I guess when a woman cuts me off when I'm driving down the road, by your logic, it would be ok for me to dry hump her. She did break the rules by cutting me off ... she needs to "Take some personal responsibility"

/ I don't know why people look at fossils when trying to study cavemen. They live among us ... they are known as "religious"


I understand why you're being deliberately dense; admitting personal responsibility is hard.  In your illustration, the woman, having broken the rules, would be liable to penalty as proscribed by law.  If you foolishly responded by dry humping her, then you would be liable to penalty as well.  Two stupids don't make a smart.

You see, rule and law exist to prevent problems.  By applying simple rules, you can avoid many problems.  Simple rules like "Don't get drunk because you lose your capacity to make secure judgments about people and actions".  When you break that rule, you expose yourself to any or all of the potential consequences.  But if you follow the rule, you render yourself immune to those kinds of consequences.  Now, if a drunk man groped a sober woman, that woman would truly be a victim because she did had done her best to minimize or eliminate the potential for problems.  But if you deliberately get drunk and unplug your brain, then get surprised by the bad decision-making inherent in drunkenness that leads to bad consequences, you have to trace the problem back to you getting drunk and joining an environment of like-minded selfish, uncontrolled people who, by virtue of having the same lack of judgment as you, also break rules up to and including assault, rape or manslaughter.  Now go re-read 1 Cor 15:33 and think about why that is true.
 
2014-02-21 09:35:54 PM

shortymac: Oh Bullshiat, try to get a good grade supporting Reagan in a super-libby school.


Sounds like somebody couldn't support their thesis...
 
2014-02-21 10:37:47 PM

pdee: If a big dude tries to rub his cock on me im going to tell him to get the fark off me.  According to TFA the dude was her best friend if she is 'too shocked to react' and it takes him a minute or 2 to see that she is not into it I still say no crime has been committed


/context counts.


Ah I see.

So it IS cool if any guy you know pins you down in your car to rub their cock all over you, until you shove them away.... and then later they can try again to make sure until you say no?  Just not a stranger.  You're fine with random friend cock rubbing.

Even if you say no faster than she did, that's a bit of an odd thing to be okay with... but hey; may you would enjoy all the feels you could get of your friends and acquaintances that way.

It wasn't a date even; he was engaged to someone else, he tried again another time after being shoved off the first time....

Seriously, do not randomly rub your cock on people.  I would hope most people do not need a PSA telling them that.
 
2014-02-21 11:29:18 PM
Dragonflew:
I already spent 10 seconds typing "bible rape fault woman" into Google, I am not going waste any more time with your foul book that you'll just bend to match your own meaning anyway.

Farking Canuck:
So, to be clear, you're ok with the woman in the bible verse, as written, being stoned to death for being raped?


If she's too afraid of her attacker to cry out or if she's down in a basement and nobody can hear her cries then she deserves to die horribly. This is your position, right?


Woah, hold on.  Let's calm down and look at this rationally.
If you want to believe that the Bible is a "foul book" that's up to you, but I didn't say or suggest it's mine.  I didn't say I was a Christian or even a religious person.  I didn't say that the woman in the Bible verse (or any other woman) should be put to death for having sex or that she should cry out even if she's afraid or no one can hear her.  All of that is putting words in my mouth.
Let's take a closer look at the headline.  It reads an evangelical college says, "...in keeping with biblical principles, if you are raped it's your own fault, you filthy harlot".  I'm skeptical of this.  I want to know where in the Bible it says that a woman's actions put her at fault for being raped, because I don't believe it's in the Bible.  If what the headline says is true and not just satire, Patrick Henry College has a Biblical based policy on a Bible passage that isn't in the Bible.

The goal posts haven't been moved and I didn't bend the meaning, but the meaning did get confused.  If someone detests the Bible so much they feel spending 10 seconds on it is a waste of time, they're not going to read it very carefully.  That's understandable.  Like I said, rape is all about consent.  If you do consent to sex you haven't been raped, if you don't consent you have been raped.  Re-read what Deuteronomy 22:23-24 is saying.  It's not saying if a woman is raped and she doesn't resist she's punished but if she is raped and she does resists she isn't punished.  It doesn't say it's her fault for being raped.  It's saying if a bride-to-be has consensual sex she's punished, if she doesn't have consensual sex she isn't punished and the way we tell the difference is she yells for help.  The details have dramatically changed but the underlying principle still exists today.  If a woman is engaged and has sex with some guy who isn't her finance, she isn't executed by the government but she might be humiliated by her groom-to-be and have the wedding called off.  Instead of yelling for help, if a woman tells a man no and he forces her to have sex with him anyway she's been raped.
What I said still stands.  Can someone come to the defense of  Patrick Henry College and prove me wrong that the Bible doesn't say if a woman dresses/acts slutty and goes to the wrong place at the wrong time she's at fault for being raped?  I don't mean something vague like "women should be modest at all times" but actually says she got what she deserved.
 
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