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(Washington Post)   Who's to blame for Ukraine? Putin? The protestors? The Eurozone? A complex conglomeration of socio-economic and political circumstances? Hell no. Marx   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 104
    More: Unlikely, Ukraine, Vladimir Putin, President Viktor Yanukovych, Russian President Vladimir Putin, constitutionally limited government  
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2224 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2014 at 1:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



104 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-20 10:40:03 AM  
No, don't be stupid.
 
2014-02-20 10:41:11 AM  
This George Will?

cdn.crooksandliars.com
 
2014-02-20 10:45:25 AM  
Groucho or Richard?
 
2014-02-20 10:47:30 AM  
Yanukovych?  Because I'd go with Yanukovych.
 
2014-02-20 10:48:42 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Groucho or Richard?


Gummo.

It's revenge for never being in any of the movies.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-20 11:06:36 AM  
I'll bet it was Zeppo.
 
2014-02-20 11:22:15 AM  

vpb: I'll bet it was Zeppo.


Nope.  Gummo.  Payback for not being in any of the movies.
 
2014-02-20 11:32:52 AM  

dittybopper: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Groucho or Richard?

Gummo.

It's revenge for never being in any of the movies.


reeldebate.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-20 11:55:36 AM  
I'm pretty sure a sub-human mongrel is to blame.
 
2014-02-20 11:55:56 AM  
Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.
 
2014-02-20 12:16:30 PM  

vpb: I'll bet it was Zeppo.


Zeppo was always the dark and scary one
 
2014-02-20 12:33:13 PM  

Nabb1: Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.


The entire thrust of this article seems to be "Marxism was against nationalism, and Ukraine is acting all nationalistic, ergo suck it Marxism". It's not really wrong, so much as a really weird point to be making in this context. Has anyone really advocated the pan-border appeal of Marxism in the last 50 years?
 
2014-02-20 01:35:25 PM  
Global warming.
 
2014-02-20 01:37:49 PM  
Putin = Hitler

Both destroyed democratic infancies in their country.

Both highly militarized.

Both pick on a minority to try and win support from the core.

Both looking at expanding into nearby countries where they historically used to have.more say and have ethnic connections. (Large russian population in Ukraine).

Both have terrible human rights records.

Both put on a vanity Olympics to glory their own names.

I dont think Putin will start WWIII but he is a hitler-light.

/ diet Hitler, now with more bare- chested photos.
 
2014-02-20 01:41:09 PM  
Marx ~ Nietzsche
But nobody calls it Nichism..
 
2014-02-20 01:41:48 PM  
I think the most important question to ask is.....is it "Ukraine" or "The Ukraine"? I've heard both.
 
2014-02-20 01:42:21 PM  
Thanks His Excellency, Rufus T. Firefly.


Or it could be the other brother whose comedy career did not go as planned-- Skid Marx.
 
2014-02-20 01:44:46 PM  

Walker: I think the most important question to ask is.....is it "Ukraine" or "The Ukraine"? I've heard both.


I think the former is more acceptable. The name for the Ukraine is similar to the russian for "krai" meaning "crust" or "borderland". When you call it "The Ukraine", you're sort of implying that its merely "the borderland", which means you're defining the country by its relationship to Russia.

Obviously no one thinks about that in conscious terms, especially if you don't speak Russian or Ukranian, but that's just some background.
 
2014-02-20 01:48:46 PM  
I knew it!

www.myfriendscallmespike.com

/I just wanted to post this picture.
//I have nothing relevant to say on this subject.
 
2014-02-20 01:49:28 PM  
I always thought the go to default was to blame america?
 
2014-02-20 01:51:54 PM  
This is the stupidest thing I've read today.

I had to double check, to make sure it wasn't Daily Fail.
 
2014-02-20 01:52:17 PM  

mediablitz: I'm pretty sure a sub-human mongrel is to blame.


Ted Nugent, then?

So, since this is George Will, we can safely assume that Marx has nothing to do with it.
 
2014-02-20 01:54:10 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.

The entire thrust of this article seems to be "Marxism was against nationalism, and Ukraine is acting all nationalistic, ergo suck it Marxism". It's not really wrong, so much as a really weird point to be making in this context. Has anyone really advocated the pan-border appeal of Marxism in the last 50 years?


Nobody,  not even Marxists.
 
2014-02-20 01:59:30 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: I knew it!

[www.myfriendscallmespike.com image 300x385]

/I just wanted to post this picture.
//I have nothing relevant to say on this subject.


Reminds me of Abkhazia :

In 1989, the Republic of Abkhazia (in the former Soviet Georgia) proclaimed independence. To show the world they were rejecting their Communist past, they issued two postage stamps of Groucho Marx and John Lennon Karl Marx and V.I. Lenin).

lh3.ggpht.com
 
2014-02-20 01:59:53 PM  
According to the usual right-wing water-carrying shills in the last Ukraine thread it's Obama's fault. Because reasons, and the Ukraine is apparently freely interchangeable with Russia.
 
2014-02-20 02:02:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.

The entire thrust of this article seems to be "Marxism was against nationalism, and Ukraine is acting all nationalistic, ergo suck it Marxism". It's not really wrong, so much as a really weird point to be making in this context. Has anyone really advocated the pan-border appeal of Marxism in the last 50 years?


Perhaps, but obviously the issues playing out now are rooted back in the Soviet Era, which was completely framed by Marxism and Leninism. In any case, the crux I got from this is that Will is blaming Putin.
 
2014-02-20 02:04:48 PM  
Well, why isn't Sarah Palin intervening?! She can see Russia where she lives, after all, and can probably sit in her backyard and know what's going on in Kiev right then and there!
 
2014-02-20 02:05:03 PM  
Only a right wing pundit would think to somehow spin this into a bit about the Cold War, and take a swipe at a dead guy (Marx) who was neither alive to hear nor would ever care about what George Will thinks.
 
2014-02-20 02:06:25 PM  
FTFA: Now comes turbulent Ukraine, incandescent with nationalism and eager to preserve its sovereignty by a closer relationship with the European Union.

www.culture-games.com
 
2014-02-20 02:06:30 PM  
I thought Gummo was in 1....
firesigntheatre.com
 
2014-02-20 02:07:11 PM  
If you can't figure out the thrust of a Will column, it's probably by the design of Will himself. He does love his big words and all-encompassing innuendo, don't he?
 
2014-02-20 02:08:54 PM  

Nabb1: DamnYankees: Nabb1: Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.

The entire thrust of this article seems to be "Marxism was against nationalism, and Ukraine is acting all nationalistic, ergo suck it Marxism". It's not really wrong, so much as a really weird point to be making in this context. Has anyone really advocated the pan-border appeal of Marxism in the last 50 years?

Perhaps, but obviously the issues playing out now are rooted back in the Soviet Era, which was completely framed by Marxism and Leninism. In any case, the crux I got from this is that Will is blaming Putin.


Pan-slavism is older than that
 
2014-02-20 02:10:07 PM  
The right is getting really dumb. And it's dragging people I thought were halfway smart down with it. This is pro-EU vs. Pro-Putin/Russia.

As always the nuances and the details complicate it immensely and, of course, the right doesn't bother to do their homework.
 
2014-02-20 02:13:49 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: Maybe I need another cup of coffee, but I don't think he so much blamed Marx as discussed his theories as part of the historical framework of Russia and the Ukraine.

The entire thrust of this article seems to be "Marxism was against nationalism, and Ukraine is acting all nationalistic, ergo suck it Marxism". It's not really wrong, so much as a really weird point to be making in this context. Has anyone really advocated the pan-border appeal of Marxism in the last 50 years?


That the conflict in Ukraine is a ethnic/nationalist conflict between two right-wing coalitions that has roots dating back to the end of the Cold War ought to be no surprise to anyone should they choose to read about it in detail, but this article just seems like a non-excuse to whine about Obama and gargle zombie Reagan balls.

The closest Marx even comes to this is that his theories were gagglefarked by Russian revolutionaries a century ago, and in the wake of the superpower that arose from it the left wing in the former Eastern bloc has been DOA for over twenty years.
 
2014-02-20 02:17:35 PM  
TFA: "The political elites who cobbled together the European Union hoped that the pooling of national sovereignties would extinguish the nationalism that, they think, ruined Europe's 20th century."

This sounds like an informed, objective, unbiased and unmotivated opinion from a reasonable, intelligent and competent observer.
 
2014-02-20 02:17:51 PM  

trotsky: The right is getting really dumb. And it's dragging people I thought were halfway smart down with it. This is pro-EU vs. Pro-Putin/Russia.

As always the nuances and the details complicate it immensely and, of course, the right doesn't bother to do their homework.


Why talk about nuances when you can jack off over your favorite war one more time?
 
2014-02-20 02:19:48 PM  

unlikely: vpb: I'll bet it was Zeppo.

Zeppo was always the dark and scary one


Which is why it's odd they named a lighter after him.
 
2014-02-20 02:20:06 PM  

cwheelie: I thought Gummo was in 1....
[firesigntheatre.com image 300x300]


MDYaKh?  LZIIFI?

Who are they?
 
2014-02-20 02:20:44 PM  
>>I think the former is more acceptable. The name for the Ukraine is similar to the russian for "krai" meaning "crust" or "borderland". When you call it "The Ukraine", you're sort of implying that its merely "the borderland", which means you're defining the country by its relationship to Russia.<<

As a Russian-speaking person, currently living in Russia (thanks gods, not my home country and I'll be back soon), I can say with authority that this is absolutely not correct.

Ukraine in Russian is not "crust" or "borderland". It was, in Old Russian, but for a hundred of years at least Ukraine (Ukraina) is not the same as "borderland" (Okraina) and is never used in that meaning.

There are many derogatory and demeaning words Russians use against Ukraine, but none of them use the "borderland" in that way.

>>As always the nuances and the details complicate it immensely<<

True. In my opinion, there are more than 4 sides in the conflict, there are no good sides among them, and nothing good will come out of it; Putin is not, actually, a significant force in it; he is more of an opportunist trying to keep Russia's interests in Ukraine, which means stability and order and not having Ukraine in association with EU (that's against Russian economic interests), but other than that - he would be perfectly okay with Klitchko in power, say.
 
2014-02-20 02:22:13 PM  
verbaltoxin: "Why talk about nuances when you can jack off over your favorite war one more time?"

Hey, it's the last time they were on the right side of history.
You can't blame em for rubbing it out to the fond memory of having once actually known which way was farking up.
 
2014-02-20 02:22:46 PM  

Uncle Pim: FTFA: Now comes turbulent Ukraine, incandescent with nationalism and eager to preserve its sovereignty by a closer relationship with the European Union.

[www.culture-games.com image 213x221]



I imagine the Ukrainians are more frightened of Putin than the EU.

BTW.  I've never heard Putin referred to as 'ferret face' in an editorial before.
 
2014-02-20 02:22:55 PM  

PunGent: unlikely: vpb: I'll bet it was Zeppo.

Zeppo was always the dark and scary one

Which is why it's odd they named a lighter after him.


Hah.  It's well known that he was nicknamed "Zeppo" because the size of his organ was like a zeppelin.  Just ask Margaret Dumont.  She had to go get stitches afterwards.
 
2014-02-20 02:24:52 PM  
I blame the Polovtsii.

allart.biz
/terrific dancers, though
 
2014-02-20 02:37:35 PM  

ringersol: TFA: "The political elites who cobbled together the European Union hoped that the pooling of national sovereignties would extinguish the nationalism that, they think, ruined Europe's 20th century."

This sounds like an informed, objective, unbiased and unmotivated opinion from a reasonable, intelligent and competent observer.


It sounds like Will is fine with the nationalism that ruined 20th century Europe. ("they think"? George Will, you don't?)
 
2014-02-20 02:43:15 PM  

dittybopper: vpb: I'll bet it was Zeppo.

Nope.  Gummo.


Cosmo.

calitreview.com
 
2014-02-20 02:45:00 PM  

Grahor: >>I think the former is more acceptable. The name for the Ukraine is similar to the russian for "krai" meaning "crust" or "borderland". When you call it "The Ukraine", you're sort of implying that its merely "the borderland", which means you're defining the country by its relationship to Russia.<<

As a Russian-speaking person, currently living in Russia (thanks gods, not my home country and I'll be back soon), I can say with authority that this is absolutely not correct.

Ukraine in Russian is not "crust" or "borderland". It was, in Old Russian, but for a hundred of years at least Ukraine (Ukraina) is not the same as "borderland" (Okraina) and is never used in that meaning.

There are many derogatory and demeaning words Russians use against Ukraine, but none of them use the "borderland" in that way.

>>As always the nuances and the details complicate it immensely<<

True. In my opinion, there are more than 4 sides in the conflict, there are no good sides among them, and nothing good will come out of it; Putin is not, actually, a significant force in it; he is more of an opportunist trying to keep Russia's interests in Ukraine, which means stability and order and not having Ukraine in association with EU (that's against Russian economic interests), but other than that - he would be perfectly okay with Klitchko in power, say.




Is my etymology wrong? It seems like you're agreeing with me about the etymology. I agree with you that no one thinks about it that way these days though. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have been wrong about.
 
2014-02-20 02:47:37 PM  
All of them, actually.

photos1.meetupstatic.com
 
2014-02-20 02:48:26 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have been wrong about.


You're clearly not married, are you?
 
2014-02-20 02:56:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Is my etymology wrong? It seems like you're agreeing with me about the etymology. I agree with you that no one thinks about it that way these days though. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have been wrong about.


I disagree with this: When you call it "The Ukraine", you're sort of implying that its merely "the borderland", which means you're defining the country by its relationship to Russia.

It doesn't really matter if you call it "Ukraine" or "The Ukraine", because nobody would ever think that it implies some kind of defining the country by relationship to Russia. It's a matter of grammar and conventional usage, not politics and implications.

That's what I was disagreeing with, and I've explained why. :)
 
2014-02-20 03:00:55 PM  
By the way, people, I always wanted to ask: what do you see as a positive outcome of protests?

Let's imagine Yanukovich resigns, even flees the country all together. What then?
 
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