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(KPBS San Diego)   Steampunk group forcibly ejected from mall from being too well dressed, nerds   (kpbs.org) divider line 89
    More: Asinine, security guards, steampunk, Dr. Watson, Oceanside  
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15015 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2014 at 10:33 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-02-20 10:45:19 AM
8 votes:
So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.
2014-02-20 10:44:57 AM
8 votes:
Steampunkers:  contact the mall ahead of time when you're a group that large.

Mall cops:  Seriously?  These people looked threatening in any way, shape, or form?  Stop taking the frustration that the police academy rejected your application out on innocent people having a bit of good, clean fun.
2014-02-20 11:12:48 AM
5 votes:
Okay, I'm a freaking cosplayer, so I'm well versed in looking like an idiot in a public space and have no problem with people dressing up, but...

...sorry guys, grow up and stop expecting the world to accommodate your hobbies, and stop giving some poor schlub on security a headache of having to deal with you. You can try, but don't freaking whine about being kicked out, because you didn't ask, and they're not obligated to let you attention whore in their space.

No, you're not "freaking the mundanes", you're annoying people, that's all. I've gone to a bunch of places for photos where we didn't have permission, and if the people there have a problem, you suck it up and leave, period. I've also done it and had people there think it's awesome and be great about it, and that's great too. Sometimes you liven up their boring day and they let you get photos posing on the cop motorcycles, or they bend the rules to let you get a better shot, sometimes you're a headache and they ask you to leave. Bend the rules a bit, but realize you're ultimately the one in the wrong and GTFO if they have a problem with it.

Don't expect others to bend over backwards for your arrested development, and this is coming from a guy who occasionally dresses as a cartoon character for fun.
2014-02-20 11:36:28 AM
4 votes:
Ok, so the mall security decided they didn't like a bunch of costumed weirdo adults riding their carousel and kicked them out. That's all fine and dandy, it's their right.

But they CALLED THE FARKNG COPS? Because there were costumed weirdos there? What the fark is wrong with people? The cops should have given the mall a farking ticket for calling them there over absolutely nothing.
2014-02-20 10:51:03 AM
4 votes:

Cheron: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

1/10  You get one point for brevity


Just because I'm not afraid to call out bullshiat hypocrisy doesn't make me a troll, son.
2014-02-20 10:50:29 AM
4 votes:
How Steampunkers see themselves:
www.andysowards.com

What the rest of the world sees:
i.somethingawful.com
2014-02-20 09:44:24 AM
4 votes:

Tom_Slick: People still go to malls?


Well, steampunk cosplayers are trying to live in the past.

/stupid move by the Blarts
2014-02-20 12:26:26 PM
3 votes:
This happened in San Diego county, home of the largest comic convention on the west coast. That said, the people there also have the biggest stick up their asses when anything goes on that's not sanctioned by an authority of some sort (i.e. makes them money). These people came to the mall dressed better than most of the inbreds who showed up in stretch pants, flip flops and other moron uniforms, yet they get kicked out while Billy Bob and his 4th time pregnant sow who both look as if they just stepped out of the pages of "Trailer Park Monthly" roam free.

Sad sh*t.
2014-02-20 12:07:56 PM
3 votes:
Fire the mall cops for running off customers who weren't hurting anything.  Hire someone with a more common sense than urge to throw around their authority.
2014-02-20 11:15:17 AM
3 votes:

Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners


http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/12/06/judge-orders-colorado-cake-mak er -to-serve-gay-couples/
2014-02-20 11:03:56 AM
3 votes:

Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.


Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.
2014-02-20 11:00:38 AM
3 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Malls are private property. They have the right to determine who shops there. We are not denying this. However, state law also restricts how they can determine who can or cannot shop on their property.

Steampunk is not a protected class.

/Still an asinine move by the mall cops


No, not a protected class, but this falls under arbitrary discrimination, and since California has a specific, state level non discrimination policy called the Unruh civil rights, they would appear to have a good case for a 'suin.

Unruh was enacted to stop discrimination against people not specifically listed in the civil rights act, basically, gays etc, but is broadly interpreted to protect you from arbitrary discrimination.


I am not a lawyer, but if I was them, I would certainly be contacting one.
2014-02-20 10:59:56 AM
3 votes:

TheLopper: What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!


I didn't even know what steam punk was until I read this article. I think it looks pretty damn cool. Better than what hipsters wear, at least.
2014-02-20 10:55:46 AM
3 votes:

scottydoesntknow: TerminalEchoes: Cheron: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

1/10  You get one point for brevity

Just because I'm not afraid to call out bullshiat hypocrisy doesn't make me a troll, son.

So you're going with moron then?

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it works!


Ah yes. The Fark way: "If You Can't Control Them, Ridicule Them"

Your parents must be so proud of you.
2014-02-20 10:54:56 AM
3 votes:
The mall cops weren't violating rights or doing anything legally wrong, they're just assholes.  "It's weird and makes me feel funny, kill it with fire" is all this amounts to.
2014-02-20 10:53:50 AM
3 votes:
I'm not a huge fan of steampunk anything.  It's not appealing to me and it seems very much like a fad but what possible harm were the mall officials worried about?  Also god damn, if you run a mall in 2014 I would think that you would be happy if anyone walked through the door.

It reminds me of the time our party of 10 was told we couldn't enter a bar because one of the guys was wearing sneakers.  OK fair enough, he was violating the dress code after all, so I asked if I could go in without paying cover to collect some friends who were already inside so we could go elsewhere.  The bouncer agree and when I got inside I saw that there were maybe 20 people in a bar that was built for way more people and this was at 10:00 PM on a Saturday night.  Alright man we'll go buy overpriced booze somewhere else, have fun collecting a paycheck from your employer's failing business.
2014-02-20 10:47:40 AM
3 votes:

Weatherkiss: scottydoesntknow: Steampunk is not a protected class.
[i.stack.imgur.com image 420x560]

Ray guns do a good job at protecting people.


We definitely need more hot chicks in steampunk outfits...

img.wonderhowto.com
2014-02-20 09:34:41 AM
3 votes:
Malls are private property. They have the right to determine who shops there. We are not denying this. However, state law also restricts how they can determine who can or cannot shop on their property.

Steampunk is not a protected class.

/Still an asinine move by the mall cops
2014-02-20 05:59:01 PM
2 votes:
Can we get back on topic?  Sheesh!

img.fark.net
2014-02-20 05:56:00 PM
2 votes:
I don't care about steampunk one way or another, but I find it hard to understand why the mall would tell a group of people "Hey, you there, get the hell out.  You aren't causing any trouble, you aren't wearing outrageously skimpy clothing, you are spending money, and I want you to leave".

It's a really, really stupid business plan.  If I lived in the area, even though I have no ties to steampunk at all, I'd avoid that mall just because I'd assume that if the management are jerks who kick people out for random reasons, I simply don't want to do business there.
2014-02-20 02:28:25 PM
2 votes:

zimbomba63: trappedspirit: On the way to or from different events I have shopped at the grocery store, eaten in numerous restaurants, and otherwise interacted normally with people.

You cannot wear steamedpunk costumes and interact normally with anyone.

Sure you can.  When dealing with a Goth, I made a habit of not acting shocked, outraged or even curious about their lifestyle.  You could see the disappointment in their eyes.  Treating them as one of the "mundanes" is actually kind of cruel, when you get down to it, but, when you're out attention whoring, you have to realize you don't have an absolute right to receive that attention.


Sigh. Let me explain something to you...

Those people in the whiteface with ridiculous harlequin makeup and clothes they bought at a specialty shop?  They're not goths.  They're something else. They may call themselves "goth" and you may think they're goth, but they're not. They're vampires, most likely. Baby goths, if you must. They're mostly just emos who stole the word "goth", though.

I was part of the group that would eventually be called goth in the 70s/80s. I wasn't an attention whore, and in fact, the whole point of my style was that I wanted people to  leave me alone, but that I also wanted to display my artistic side. Of course, the look was not this garish stupid look you see today. We wore dark clothes, but they were invariably poached from second-hand or thrift shop and then altered by us. We took a little punk, a little classic horror, and a lot of 1920s silent film style and wrapped it in a modern look. There was no whiteface. The eye makeup was more subtle, designed to emphasize the eyes in the same way it did for film stars like Clara Bow, Rudy Valentino, Charles Chaplin, or Louise Brooks. The horror influence was subtle-- We didn't pretend to be vampires or cover ourselves in Halloween trinkets or symbols.

Our clothes were not made for us by some mall shop or online goth shop. We did it all ourselves, recycling cool outfits from previous decades and altering them a bit to fit modern needs and aesthetics.

A few of us had odd hair-- Big hair, mohawks, multi-colored hair, etc.-- but that was the punk influence (we were, after all, originally called "postpunk" or simply "alternatives"). We also loved our combat boots like any good punk would.

And despite you thinking we might have been seeking attention, we were actually intensely PRIVATE people. We had a tight-knit, small group in those days. When outsiders asked us questions or made observations about our appearance, we were often insulted because part of the intention of dressing in an artistic, alternative way was to steer people away, not to invite questions.

And because we were a branch of punk, we weren't afraid to drive our Doc Martins up your ass if you tried to rag on us for our taste in art, music, or clothing. These modern "goths" are wimps compared to what goth was originally; A mix of eclectic artists, musicians, and intellectuals who DID NOT WANT the preppies, jocks, burnouts, nerds, or other cliques to infiltrate our group or bother us.

You think a goth looks like this:
img.fark.net

th09.deviantart.net


When actually, we looked a lot more like this:
24.media.tumblr.com
25.media.tumblr.com
(This girl's more early 90s, but still hanging on to the ideals)


25.media.tumblr.com
(of course, we all tried to individualize our look, too, but it wasn't far off from this)

The vampire look (begun, by most accounts, by The Damned) was picked up by the posers who started to infiltrate our subculture in the late 80s, and by the early 1990s  goth was dead. The subculture can't exist if the members are not mainly artists and intellectuals. That was who we were; We were the artsy-fartsy branch of punk. When the dumbasses started dressing like The Crow and following us around, they watered down the group with idiocy and made our previous pursuits and conversations impossible. Not to mention we were all entering the world as adults, spreading out, losing touch, and finding ourselves.

On the west coast and down in Florida the new batch of kids who saw what we had done and took it to the ridiculous Hot Topic extremes kept calling themselves "goth", but they weren't. I guess they are now, because they're what people associate with the word, leaving us-- the original goths (who didn't call ourselves that, anyway; That was the media's fault) having to call ourselves "postpunk" or "old school goth" to make it clear we were nothing like the twit goth cosplayers you see today.

The irony is that we were all rather camera-shy, so there aren't many photos of actual goths hanging out. We all covered our faces or scattered when someone pointed a camera at us. I'm not kidding! So all people see today to reference this era of gothic punk are the celebrities, and they took things a bit further than we did because they WERE trying to drum up attention. That was their job, after all.

Straight punks, on the other hand, loved having their picture taken, and they were usually quick to have their middle finger out and a rude look on their face when it happened. They are closer to what we were than the modern "goths" are, for sure, but they were also more extreme than we were. They were the extroverts of the alternative scene, while we were the introverts. We were happy with small groups; They liked big, loud events. We were happy with each other; They wanted everyone to see them and respect their lifestyle choices. We were out of the public eye; They were in your face.

Just like greasers from the 1950s, original goths were the product of a specific era. They existed because of that era, not because of the clothes. You can dress someone like Danny from Grease,  but he's not an actual member of that subculture, and never can be. That time is done.
2014-02-20 12:17:01 PM
2 votes:

James!: I'd imagine the $15 an hour rent a cop is much more willing to harass a guy wearing a top hat and propeller tie than a guy in a biker jacket.


Same reason PETA never bothered to throw red paint on us for wearing head to toe leather.
2014-02-20 12:05:08 PM
2 votes:
They look well dressed and clean cut. Which is not how your suppose to look like at the mall.
2014-02-20 12:01:21 PM
2 votes:
IMO, Steampunk is a joke!

If you're going to get all "Retro Fiction", then go with the early 1930's style, a la "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".

ww4.hdnux.com

It's a lot more sophisticated than gluing gears onto a top hat.
2014-02-20 11:45:21 AM
2 votes:
The mall's "no costume" rule is intended to keep gangs off the premises, and it was used correctly in this case. While your standard street gang might cause intimidation and fights, a roving gaggle of these Steampunk hoi polloi might spark calamitous kerfuffles, dithyrambic discombobulations, and all manner of opprobrious truculence and tintamarre, and since your average beat cop won't be able to spell any of those things in a report, they're likely to get away with it. It's always better to shut down these nefarious vintage slubberdegullions before they can set forth their vitiated intendments, because once they get going in full earnest, they can be a real pain in the thesaurus.
2014-02-20 11:43:37 AM
2 votes:

moike: The local 3pc patch-wearing Motorcycle Club I was a member of for quite some time used to have a once-a-year trip to the Boardwalk to goof off for the evening.

The first time we did it yeah, security got their panties twisted because a bunch of leather clad patch wearing bikers were wandering around their amusement park.  But after about an hour of watching us eat ice cream and ride bumper cars they finally got a clue that we were harmless and pissed off back to harassing teenagers in hoodies.


I'd imagine the $15 an hour rent a cop is much more willing to harass a guy wearing a top hat and propeller tie than a guy in a biker jacket.
2014-02-20 11:37:53 AM
2 votes:

Schmerd1948: Man, you young people are screwed up. We faced the same shiat in the 60s, and I thought we had all learned about personal freedom. So what that these folks dressed differently? How about we all stand up for their right to be weird? Because ALL you Farkers be weird. So there.


You DO realize that the "personal freedom" generation is the one that now owns the malls and makes these stupid rules, right?

I *love* it when the Loudest Generation gets nostalgic for the time before they all sold out.

/admit it: y'all never meant it in the first place, you were just in it for the sex. Oops, I mean the Free Love.
2014-02-20 11:18:21 AM
2 votes:
By and large, most Steampunk followers are bi and LARGE.
2014-02-20 11:16:18 AM
2 votes:

TerminalEchoes: Weatherkiss: TerminalEchoes: TheLopper: What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!

I didn't even know what steam punk was until I read this article. I think it looks pretty damn cool. Better than what hipsters wear, at least.

I only became interested in Steampunk after getting some gun called the Righteous Bison out of Team Fortress 2.

Later found out it was an actual product made by WETA Workshop and started looking up pictures and music and whatnot.

[www.figures.com image 338x222]

I know Second Life has a pretty strong Steampunk following.

I'm not really a gamer. I'm old, married, work, the typical grind. I'm really behind in pop culture and whatnot. I remember seeing steam punk in---crap what's that movie? Wild West? The one with Will Smith and Kevin Cline. Looked pretty steam punk to me and I loved the concept of mixing Victorian Era wardrobes with technology. I just didn't know there was a term for it. Would Bioshock Infinite be classified as steam punk? Never played it but I watched someone play it on YouTube. Looked pretty cool.


Yeah, Wild Wild West would. So would that second Hellboy movie. Some online webcomic called Wondermark is also influenced by Steampunk. You could argue that the Smashing Pumpkins 'Tonight, Tonight' music video was heavily influenced by steampunk (though it was more of a homage to the first sci-fi movie ever made).

There's also that god-awful League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie.

I'm like you in that I liked the genre and whatnot before I knew there was a term for it. Once I knew what the term was it was easier to look up artwork/music/costumes/etc.
2014-02-20 11:12:13 AM
2 votes:

Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners


Is this good enough for you?
2014-02-20 11:03:43 AM
2 votes:
Man, you young people are screwed up. We faced the same shiat in the 60s, and I thought we had all learned about personal freedom. So what that these folks dressed differently? How about we all stand up for their right to be weird? Because ALL you Farkers be weird. So there.
2014-02-20 10:57:43 AM
2 votes:
What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!
2014-02-20 10:56:33 AM
2 votes:
Woohoo, now I have an excuse to put up pics of hot steampunk chicks! (and there are alot)!

i.imgur.com

thechive.files.wordpress.com

thechive.files.wordpress.com

www.myconfinedspace.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

thechive.files.wordpress.com

theburgandyboudoir.files.wordpress.com

www.noupe.com
2014-02-20 10:56:20 AM
2 votes:

Wellon Dowd: There is no mention of the use of force in the article, subby.


The hovering of guards and the calling of police is not the use of force? What world are you living in?
2014-02-20 10:54:40 AM
2 votes:

Wellon Dowd: There is no mention of the use of force in the article, subby.


Calling the police is use of force.
2014-02-20 10:51:47 AM
2 votes:
static.tvtropes.org

What's the mall have against science?
2014-02-20 10:51:42 AM
2 votes:
I do think one point from TFA is valid--if some of those weirdos dress that way daily, are they still technically in costumes or are they in their plainclothes? The mall can eject them for inappropriate attire but calling all retro clothing "costume" seems like a stretch.

/owns a lot of 80s and 70s style costumes
2014-02-20 10:50:11 AM
2 votes:

Fissile: Look at pictures of people from the late 19th century.  Fat people were not common.  Fail.


Yeah, Queen Victoria was a beanpole.

/rich people in the late 19th century were fat, that was because it was seen as a sign of wealth, not poor dietary/exercise habits
2014-02-20 10:49:39 AM
2 votes:
www.uncoached.com
2014-02-20 10:45:39 AM
2 votes:
Look at pictures of people from the late 19th century.  Fat people were not common.  Fail.
2014-02-20 10:44:42 AM
2 votes:
There is no mention of the use of force in the article, subby.
2014-02-20 10:44:22 AM
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Steampunk is not a protected class.

i.stack.imgur.com

Ray guns do a good job at protecting people.
2014-02-20 11:34:00 PM
1 votes:

The_Philosopher_King: DarkVader:  It's California.  Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins is still controlling law.

That makes more sense. I didn't know about that case. But I can see the argument that Steampunk clothes don't meet the criteria for "Speech" and their only effect was a disruption of trade.


Dressing in unconventional garb does not constitute disruption of trade.  With the religious connotation aside, could they ban Hindus for dressing in saris in there was a bunch of them?  Could they ban Hasidic Jews for showing up en masse?

What if a bunch of people showed up wearing traditionally religious clothes, yet they were not religious at all?
2014-02-20 11:28:15 PM
1 votes:
JonnyBGoode:

By the way, please sign the petition to get the mall to make an apology to the group.

----- "server misbehaving" page.
I think traffic caused a crash!!

IDIOT MALL COPS.
THIS IS WHY YOU DO WHAT YOU DO, you're just a moron jock who couldn't get hired anywhere else after your 2 years of C- grades at community college.
2014-02-20 05:29:19 PM
1 votes:

TNel: Yeah I'm sure there are other people waiting in line for that minimum wage position. I mean look at those cool hats you get to wear.


Yeah, but you also get to follow around young, nubile girls in their tight low-rise jeans, their sweet buttcheeks twitching and rolling as they strut between the "Food" Court and Hot Topic.
2014-02-20 05:11:46 PM
1 votes:
So malls dont want people in there that are causing no problems and spending money. They just want obnoxious teens and mall walkers. Sounds like a hell of a business plan.
2014-02-20 04:51:15 PM
1 votes:

JonnyBGoode: TV's Vinnie: IMO, Steampunk is a joke!

If you're going to get all "Retro Fiction", then go with the early 1930's style, a la "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".

[ww4.hdnux.com image 628x353]

It's a lot more sophisticated than gluing gears onto a top hat.

Subby here. While I do prefer the look of dieselpunk, steampunk style can be fun, too.  As the little girl said,

[static.gamespot.com image 288x288]

So far the mall has done nothing but dodge the issue and make statements like "if you tell us you're coming, we'd be glad to have you back." So people have to make an appointment to go to the mall now? And if wearing a cravat is my choice of attire, I'm not welcome?

Technically, this is a clear violation of California's Unruh Civil Right Act, which prohibits a business's discrimination of customers based on "Unconventional Dress".

By the way, please sign the petition to get the mall to make an apology to the group.


Thanks for the link, I hope the mall loses a lot of business over this fiasco. I think they looked rather nice, and they certainly didn't seem to be causing any sort of issue. I hope they sue, too.
2014-02-20 03:33:54 PM
1 votes:

Nix Nightbird: Sigh. Let me explain something to you...


You couldn't possibly have been all that intellectual if your plan for being left alone was to differentiate yourself from the herd.  Then again the acts of violence as retaliation for insults that you reported show exactly how enlightened you were.
2014-02-20 03:30:17 PM
1 votes:

2KanZam: Nix Nightbird: stuff...


Hey look!  An honest  goth god "I was gothing before gothing was cool" statement.  What we have here folks is a Gothic Hipster...sensitive but badass in his Doc Martens combat boots.

Aren't you a little old to be so butthurt about what you believe to be or not to be a goth?  I mean I was an alt kid (skater I guess?) and all, but...let it go man...


I have to agree, all this "Goth is dead by the XX (timeframe)" is bullshait. Especially with Nightbird claiming that he/she "have to call ourselves old school goth or postpunk" to differentiate themselves from the "not Goth" crowd of XX and beyond (timeframe). Postpunk is a crap term made up by a magazine writer in the late 70s who didn't know what the hell music he was listening to with some Punk bands doing a darker style, even when the term "Gothic" was used by Tony Curtis (Joy Division producer, owner of Factory Records) in an interview with the BBC in 1979 to describe the style of Joy Division. Now "Post Punk" is used by Hipsters who don't like putting the Gothic label on Goth bands. I don't know if your new love is Hipster or not, Nightbird, but that was one hell of a stupid encompassing post.
2014-02-20 02:52:53 PM
1 votes:

Theaetetus: The Civil Rights Act, including its section on anti-discrimination in public accommodations, is 50 years old. How have you never heard of it until now?

MemeSlave: That doesn't mean it's not stupid.   It just has the veneer of tradition.


Well, okay, other than the fact that you want to bring back legal segregation, what do you think is stupid about anti-discrimination laws? In particular, just so we can figure out whether you're racist, sexist, or some other kind of bigot, who do you want the freedom to be able to discriminate against?
2014-02-20 02:47:10 PM
1 votes:
Mall cops are some of the worst "security" officers I've ever encountered.  Speaking from the viewpoint of a security officer/investigator, they do things that (and are seeming allowed to do things) that I would have fired people for.  I was dating a girl that worked at a store in the mall and would often come and talk to her if I was in town and she had an empty store.  Without fail, when the mall cop would walk by, he would come over and ask her if I was bothering her.  She always would reply, "no, he is fine, ect ect He is my boyfriend."  The officer would leave,usually grumbling under his breath.  About a week before Christmas, I came in to drop her off some lunch.  I walked to her store, brown bag in hand, exchanged a pleasantry, and felt a hand on my shoulder.  I turned around, and guess what, it was the same guy.  He starts yelling at me, "I am going to arrest you for loitering, if you do not leave immediately!" To which I replied, "You need to take your hand off of me, right now." His eyes grew wide and face reddened. He cued his mic, and requested backup.
  A little back ground in security law for the readers.  Most security forces are put into two or three categories, based upon job guidelines.  Now this varies by the state, but usually they are broken down into watchmen, which are strictly observe and report, armed security, and unarmed security.  Watchmen, which was the category that this particular idiot fell under, are by no means actually supposed to address anyone at any time, they are not even allowed defensive weapons. They are used to gather descriptions of offenders and report this to a law enforcement agency.  They have no powers of arrest.
        His "backup" arrived, three other mall officers one of which had a stun gun in his hand.  They were all out of breath, probably running from the far corner of the mall where the food court was.  They all exchanged a brief mishmash of radio codes, company lingo, and other words describing the situation.  Their conversation was as if someone had tossed a military radio protocol book, a police radio protocol book, and some internal security document into a blender and tried to assemble a sentence. The one with the stun gun held my particular attention, as I did not want to "ride the lightning" and possibly wet myself in front of my at the time girlfriend.  I yelled at them, "Next person that touches me, better have a license to do so!" and prepared for a fight, not exactly sure how this would all play out.  They looked very confused at my statement, but continued to close on me. I pointed my back down the isle, training taking over, so that I wouldn't have to fight them all at once.   At this time, I took out my cel phone and said "that's it, Im calling the cops and filing a complaint." That slowed them in their tracks and the first one said, "you really dont want to do that, you'll go to jail." Now I was really confused. What would I go to jail for? Do these guys know anything about their jobs? I saw one of the guards fumbling for a set of handcuffs from his belt.  The training part of my mind is screaming at me that I have to take down "sparky" first to have a chance at getting past the rest.  At this time, another uniformed officer walked into the front of the store. The two watchmen at the back, followed him as he pushed past them.  I recognized him as an actual police officer of the town we were in, and luckily, he recognized me from some shooting events we had been in together.  I smiled.  He spun around and ordered the watchmen to back up, and for the one to put down the stun gun.  They all snapped to, but continued to leer at me.  The cop called me by name, and came closer with a very puzzled look on his face.  He said under his breath, "what the fark is going on here?" I gestured to at the time girlfriend and explained my situation.  He looked even more confused.  He turned around and questioned the watchmen.  I saw him gesture a few times in my direction and they departed.  He came back, hand extended and as I shook his hand he simply shook his head.  With a laugh he said, "so, I guess you are going to want to file a complaint?" I nodded.

I filed a formal complaint later that day, and within a few days I received a letter from a law firm stating that I was banned from mall property unless I retracted my complaint. I gave the letter to our company lawyer reminding them that since I was also a process server, that they could not legally bar me from the property while I was acting on the court's behalf.  A return letter was never received, and I returned a few weeks later, mostly out of spite, to hand deliver a document that would have usually been mailed.  One of the watchmen did see me, and scuttled away talking on his radio.  I went back to talk to my then girlfriend and one of her coworkers said that they were very nervously asking her what she knew about what I did for a living, and my relationship was to the police.

I wonder, how many times has this situation played out before, only instead of someone like me, it was some goofy kid doing goofy things.  Had that letter that was sent to me been enough to keep some terrified kid quiet?  Is this mall service company just too big to care about their day to day workers' behavior?
2014-02-20 02:20:12 PM
1 votes:
Btw, all this dime store authoritarian chest beating from failed pizza delivery drivers is just gonna keep getting more abrasive.
2014-02-20 02:19:43 PM
1 votes:

kregh99: Steampunkers:  contact the mall ahead of time when you're a group that large.

Mall cops:  Seriously?  These people looked threatening in any way, shape, or form?  Stop taking the frustration that the police academy rejected your application out on innocent people having a bit of good, clean fun.


They should have known that if you want to go to the mall, you must look bland, shabby, or vulgar in a bland, shabby kind of way.  Absoluely nothing imaginative allowed.
2014-02-20 01:59:52 PM
1 votes:
Nytfall: advres: Those were possibly the lamest steampunk outfits of all time.
 
Came to say this.  The old couple they showed first also seem to think old timey=steampunk.

They intentionally toned down their attire for the mall. It says that in the article. "Most of the people were in simple Victorian dress because it looks so good on a carousel animal for a photo."


But even simple Victorian attire was just too much for this mall to handle, apparently.
2014-02-20 01:50:45 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: IMO, Steampunk is a joke!

If you're going to get all "Retro Fiction", then go with the early 1930's style, a la "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".

[ww4.hdnux.com image 628x353]

It's a lot more sophisticated than gluing gears onto a top hat.


Subby here. While I do prefer the look of dieselpunk, steampunk style can be fun, too.  As the little girl said,

static.gamespot.com

So far the mall has done nothing but dodge the issue and make statements like "if you tell us you're coming, we'd be glad to have you back." So people have to make an appointment to go to the mall now? And if wearing a cravat is my choice of attire, I'm not welcome?

Technically, this is a clear violation of California's Unruh Civil Right Act, which prohibits a business's discrimination of customers based on "Unconventional Dress".

By the way, please sign the petition to get the mall to make an apology to the group.
2014-02-20 12:55:01 PM
1 votes:
kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com

wtf
2014-02-20 12:32:03 PM
1 votes:

trappedspirit: On the way to or from different events I have shopped at the grocery store, eaten in numerous restaurants, and otherwise interacted normally with people.

You cannot wear steamedpunk costumes and interact normally with anyone.


Sure you can.  When dealing with a Goth, I made a habit of not acting shocked, outraged or even curious about their lifestyle.  You could see the disappointment in their eyes.  Treating them as one of the "mundanes" is actually kind of cruel, when you get down to it, but, when you're out attention whoring, you have to realize you don't have an absolute right to receive that attention.

/ 63 and a "Different strokes for different folks" type
// These people should not have been kicked out of the mall
/// But, since they were, they now feel validated
//// "What does not ignore them, makes them stronger"
2014-02-20 12:31:38 PM
1 votes:

blatz514: Weatherkiss: scottydoesntknow: Steampunk is not a protected class.
[i.stack.imgur.com image 420x560]

Ray guns do a good job at protecting people.

We definitely need more hot chicks in steampunk outfits...


That's my friend nova han. She is amazing, she choreographs the most epic shows! Yay for hot, talented women!
2014-02-20 12:21:55 PM
1 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com
2014-02-20 12:18:06 PM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: IMO, Steampunk is a joke!


If you're going to get all "Retro Fiction", then go with the early 1930's style, a la "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".


[ww4.hdnux.com image 628x353]


It's a lot more sophisticated than gluing gears onto a top hat.



I disagree. Go 1970s bacofoil, spandex and feathered hair.
fandomania.com
Space disco 4 life.
2014-02-20 12:03:06 PM
1 votes:

cgraves67: James!: Need_MindBleach: Ok, so the mall security decided they didn't like a bunch of costumed weirdo adults riding their carousel and kicked them out. That's all fine and dandy, it's their right.

But they CALLED THE FARKNG COPS? Because there were costumed weirdos there? What the fark is wrong with people? The cops should have given the mall a farking ticket for calling them there over absolutely nothing.

They were armed with ray guns.

The article specifically states that they left their ray guns at home so as not to frighten mall-goers.


So it does.  That is hilarious.
2014-02-20 11:49:24 AM
1 votes:

Weatherkiss: scottydoesntknow: Steampunk is not a protected class.
[i.stack.imgur.com image 420x560]

Ray guns do a good job at protecting people.


Well, it better be fully charged, because that corset is going to get her into trouble.
2014-02-20 11:43:46 AM
1 votes:

Xcott: Need_MindBleach: But they CALLED THE FARKNG COPS? Because there were costumed weirdos there?

Would you say the same about furries?  After all, steampunkers are basically furries that grow such as old phonograph parts instead of hair.


Are they screwing in the mall?  Because otherwise they'd just be, what, wearing animal costumes?

It would be one of the more entertaining trips through a mall I'd taken in a while.

/As long as they weren't screwing
2014-02-20 11:43:00 AM
1 votes:

Jument: tripleseven: scottydoesntknow: Malls are private property. They have the right to determine who shops there. We are not denying this. However, state law also restricts how they can determine who can or cannot shop on their property.

Steampunk is not a protected class.

/Still an asinine move by the mall cops

No, not a protected class, but this falls under arbitrary discrimination, and since California has a specific, state level non discrimination policy called the Unruh civil rights, they would appear to have a good case for a 'suin.

Unruh was enacted to stop discrimination against people not specifically listed in the civil rights act, basically, gays etc, but is broadly interpreted to protect you from arbitrary discrimination.


I am not a lawyer, but if I was them, I would certainly be contacting one.

RTFA. It might have come down to the "no photos" policy.


They were approached by security as they were eating. No photos taken.
2014-02-20 11:39:38 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: The fact that a judge even intervened makes all the difference in the world. Future fines, though undeclared, were threatened. Look, I understand how passionate people get about certain issues. Gay rights is one of those issues people fiercely defend and that's fine. I happen to defend personal freedom. I have no problem with gays at all, but I do have a problem with government walking all over people. Thus far, gays are not yet a federally protected class. One day I'm sure they will be, but right now, if a business wants to refuse service to gays, they should be allowed to do so, just like a gay business should be allowed to refuse service to straight people.

My problem isn't with gay people. My problems is with hypocrisy. "It's okay for us to do it to these people but not those people." It should be an all-or-nothing thing to me.


Let's take a trip in our time machine to the 1960s and look at that post again.

The fact that a judge even intervened makes all the difference in the world. Future fines, though undeclared, were threatened. Look, I understand how passionate people get about certain issues. Gay African American rights is one of those issues people fiercely defend and that's fine. I happen to defend personal freedom. I have no problem with gays black people at all, but I do have a problem with government walking all over people. Thus far, gays black people are not yet a federally protected class. One day I'm sure they will be, but right now, if a business wants to refuse service to gays black people, they should be allowed to do so, just like a gay an African American business should be allowed to refuse service to straight white people.

My problem isn't with gay black people. My problems is with hypocrisy. "It's okay for us to do it to these people but not those people." It should be an all-or-nothing thing to me.


See how stupid that sounds now?
2014-02-20 11:31:41 AM
1 votes:

gonegirl: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners

Is this good enough for you?

Colorado's Anti-Discrimination Act (Title 24, Article 34, Part 6 Colorado Revised Statutes) specifically makes GLBT status a protected class.

So yes, your original statement is still very stupid.


Yet federal law trumps state law. Weird how a lot of people (especially liberals) defer to federal law until it works against them. Then they become just as "derp derp muh states' rights" as the conservatives.
2014-02-20 11:28:37 AM
1 votes:

Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners

Is this good enough for you?

So he was given no punishment and the judge threatened nonspecific fines if he kept discriminating?

My point stands: he was not forced to make anything for anyone, including the couple he refused in the first place.


The fact that a judge even intervened makes all the difference in the world. Future fines, though undeclared, were threatened. Look, I understand how passionate people get about certain issues. Gay rights is one of those issues people fiercely defend and that's fine. I happen to defend personal freedom. I have no problem with gays at all, but I do have a problem with government walking all over people. Thus far, gays are not yet a federally protected class. One day I'm sure they will be, but right now, if a business wants to refuse service to gays, they should be allowed to do so, just like a gay business should be allowed to refuse service to straight people.

My problem isn't with gay people. My problems is with hypocrisy. "It's okay for us to do it to these people but not those people." It should be an all-or-nothing thing to me.
2014-02-20 11:27:28 AM
1 votes:

TheGreatGazoo: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/12/06/judge-orders-colorado-cake-mak er -to-serve-gay-couples/


If someone offers me I dunno, $150 bucks to make a f*cking cake, why should I give a sh*t whether those people are gay or not? Seriously, what is your logical argument? Is it finding two men or two women to put at the top of the cake? Is that going to affect the bottom line?

Your job is to make cakes for people, not to decide who gets the cake and who doesn't based on your belief system. If the gay couple says, 'hey you have to make us a cake and then give us both a reach around' then you can start complaining.

People seem to easily forget that 50 years ago, black people couldn't go to a bakery for 'white people'. That's the same kind of discrimination going on here.
2014-02-20 11:23:56 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: Strolpol: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

Except for the part where that's never happened.

Looks like someone doesn't watch the news.

I consume more news before 9 AM than you do all day, son.

Find me a single example do an American court declaring that cake makers were legally obligated to create a cake for a gay couple under legal penalty if they failed to do so.

/every single one of these stories is about community backlash against bigotry, not the big bad gummint making God-fearing bakers create pastries for sinners

Is this good enough for you?


Colorado's Anti-Discrimination Act (Title 24, Article 34, Part 6 Colorado Revised Statutes) specifically makes GLBT status a protected class.

So yes, your original statement is still very stupid.
2014-02-20 11:17:21 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: TheLopper: What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!

I didn't even know what steam punk was until I read this article. I think it looks pretty damn cool. Better than what hipsters wear, at least.


That's kind of shooting fish in a barrel, since ANYTHING looks better than a Hipster.

/Yes, even Juggalos.
2014-02-20 11:17:15 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: scottydoesntknow: TerminalEchoes: Cheron: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

1/10  You get one point for brevity

Just because I'm not afraid to call out bullshiat hypocrisy doesn't make me a troll, son.

So you're going with moron then?

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it works!

Ah yes. The Fark way: "If You Can't Control Them, Ridicule [ALL THE THINGS]  Them"

Your parents must be so proud of you.


FTFY
2014-02-20 11:15:37 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: Weatherkiss: TerminalEchoes: TheLopper: What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!

I didn't even know what steam punk was until I read this article. I think it looks pretty damn cool. Better than what hipsters wear, at least.

I only became interested in Steampunk after getting some gun called the Righteous Bison out of Team Fortress 2.

Later found out it was an actual product made by WETA Workshop and started looking up pictures and music and whatnot.

[www.figures.com image 338x222]

I know Second Life has a pretty strong Steampunk following.

I'm not really a gamer. I'm old, married, work, the typical grind. I'm really behind in pop culture and whatnot. I remember seeing steam punk in---crap what's that movie? Wild West? The one with Will Smith and Kevin Cline. Looked pretty steam punk to me and I loved the concept of mixing Victorian Era wardrobes with technology. I just didn't know there was a term for it. Would Bioshock Infinite be classified as steam punk? Never played it but I watched someone play it on YouTube. Looked pretty cool.


I believe the current interpretation of Steampunk has been around since the 80's. I think its popularity is waning now, but I could be wrong.

In my opinion it's one of those things where there's a razor thin line between looking cool and looking ridiculous.
2014-02-20 11:14:37 AM
1 votes:

Wellon Dowd: There is no mention of the use of force in the article, subby.


The calling of police can now technically be considered forcibly, since they shoot people for any reason.. even being injured in a car crash and needing help. Seriously, how much more god damned force is there than that?
"You hurt? *BOOM* lol He's not hurting now!!!!"
"WOW nice head-shot! You want to plant the weapon, or me? Or, do we even need to do that anymore"
2014-02-20 11:05:04 AM
1 votes:

TNel: blatz514: [www.uncoached.com image 620x827]

goggles = steampunk?


www.thestranger.com

The goggles, they do nothing!
2014-02-20 11:04:39 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.


The state of Ohio is preparing to pass a law that gives private business owners the right to refuse service to 'protected classes' if it goes against their religious beliefs.
2014-02-20 11:03:51 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: TheLopper: What? People are dressing differently than I want them to? To the outrage mobile!

I didn't even know what steam punk was until I read this article. I think it looks pretty damn cool. Better than what hipsters wear, at least.


I only became interested in Steampunk after getting some gun called the Righteous Bison out of Team Fortress 2.

Later found out it was an actual product made by WETA Workshop and started looking up pictures and music and whatnot.

www.figures.com

I know Second Life has a pretty strong Steampunk following.
2014-02-20 11:02:43 AM
1 votes:
This is why you should only play dress up in your parent's basement, or at appropriate conventions.
2014-02-20 11:02:36 AM
1 votes:

redmid17: On one hand, I think Steampunk is weird and the mall has every right to ask them to leave.

On the other hand, these people don't seem to be dressed up in a disruptive manner nor do they seem to have actually caused a problem outside of the rent-a-cop's narrow POV.


Pretty much this.  I think steampunk people are silly, but it's not like they were really dressed inappropriately.  IMO, the only reason to kick someone out of a mall for dress reasons would be if they aren't wearing  enough clothing.  Nobody wants to see you walk around the mall in nothing but a jockstrap.  But this group was wearing plenty of clothes, even if they were odd.
2014-02-20 10:56:27 AM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: How Steampunkers see themselves:
[www.andysowards.com image 600x900]

What the rest of the world sees:
[i.somethingawful.com image 550x428]


What exactly do you think is wrong with the second picture?
2014-02-20 10:53:37 AM
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: Cheron: TerminalEchoes: So malls (private property) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish as long as it's not a protected class (steam punk). Meanwhile, wedding cake makers (private property) are forced by the courts to give service to another non-protected class (two gay people).

Interesting.

1/10  You get one point for brevity

Just because I'm not afraid to call out bullshiat hypocrisy doesn't make me a troll, son.


So you're going with moron then?

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it works!
2014-02-20 10:49:09 AM
1 votes:

Fissile: Look at pictures of people from the late 19th century.  Fat people were not common.  Fail.


Right, because if there's anything Steampunk is known for, it's excruciating historical accuracy.
2014-02-20 10:48:33 AM
1 votes:
When did steampunkers get old??
2014-02-20 10:45:43 AM
1 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com
2014-02-20 10:41:28 AM
1 votes:
tl,dr version:

Mall: "We're private property. As long as we won't get sued by the ACLU or piss off most of the shoppers, fark you!"
2014-02-20 10:38:24 AM
1 votes:
Mall was probably worried they would glue cogs to everything.
2014-02-20 10:38:03 AM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Malls are private property. They have the right to determine who shops there. We are not denying this. However, state law also restricts how they can determine who can or cannot shop on their property.

Steampunk is not a protected class.

/Still an asinine move by the mall cops


It was a dick move by the mall cops, but it probably could have been avoided by making arrangements with mall management ahead of time. Just give them a heads up, you know.
2014-02-20 10:18:44 AM
1 votes:
What were they going to buy at the mall anyway? Is there a shop for welder goggles and pocket watches?

/steampunk people are like the goths of the 21st century, except that the goths had the common courtesy to loathe themselves
2014-02-20 09:41:29 AM
1 votes:
People still go to malls?
2014-02-20 09:39:59 AM
1 votes:
The mall has a strict and clearly posted No Time Travelers rule.

uncomfortablehug.com

If you choose to dress in time traveler "colors," then don't expect security to be able to tell the difference between you and someone who actually just showed up from the Victorian Era.
 
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