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(International Business Times)   Ukraine? Nope. Mykraine   (ibtimes.co.uk) divider line 184
    More: Scary, Ukraine, President Yanukovich, Lviv, Kyiv, protest camp, civil wars, independence  
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7923 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2014 at 3:13 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-19 12:26:03 PM  
I don't see this going well for them..... 

I can't imagine why the cops are even fighting back at this point, I don't see what's in it for them anymore.
 
2014-02-19 02:15:18 PM  

marius2: I don't see this going well for them..... 

I can't imagine why the cops are even fighting back at this point, I don't see what's in it for them anymore.


It's almost like this business will get out of hand.
 
2014-02-19 02:16:40 PM  
I'm sure this will end well. That part of the world has a long history of peace and calmness.
 
2014-02-19 02:18:05 PM  
What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?
 
2014-02-19 02:20:55 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?


That would be quite the bold move, as its not his country.
 
2014-02-19 02:25:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?


That would be hugely stupid. It's much better to find out which side favors trade agreements with Russia and then arm those people. See: Syria.
 
2014-02-19 02:32:31 PM  
My relatives/ancestors are from Lviv, so I'm really getting a kick out of these responses.

/Half Ukie.
//Went there in November 1990.
///Western Ukraine is Best Ukraine.
 
2014-02-19 02:38:26 PM  
Do these guys have any troops with guns on their side, or are they just hoping that the central government won't drop the Army on their laps and tear them apart?
 
2014-02-19 02:40:23 PM  
This land is Ukraine,
this land is Mykraine
From Zakarpattia,
To the Luhansk Oblast
From Chernobyl,
to the Black Sea waters,
This Kraine was made for U and Me.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-19 03:03:02 PM  

devildog123: Do these guys have any troops with guns on their side, or are they just hoping that the central government won't drop the Army on their laps and tear them apart?


The Minister of Defense has stated that the Army isn't going to get involved.

Besides, Ceausescu tried that and he ended up against a wall.
 
2014-02-19 03:14:50 PM  
Let's call the whole thing off.
 
2014-02-19 03:16:04 PM  

dittybopper: This land is Ukraine,
this land is Mykraine
From Zakarpattia,
To the Luhansk Oblast
From Chernobyl,
to the Black Sea waters,
This Kraine was made for U and Me.


*golf clap*
 
2014-02-19 03:16:11 PM  

The_Sponge: My relatives/ancestors are from Lviv, so I'm really getting a kick out of these responses.

/Half Ukie.
//Went there in November 1990.
///Western Ukraine is Best Ukraine.


(Western Ukrainian, too! Went when I was too young to appreciate it.)
 
2014-02-19 03:17:33 PM  
I hope this region has oil or some other resource Europe craves. Otherwise, Russia will probably help crush that side of the civil war.
 
2014-02-19 03:28:25 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I hope this region has oil or some other resource Europe craves. Otherwise, Russia will probably help crush that side of the civil war.


All of this started when a trade agreement with the EU got squashed. So there's money in them hills.
 
2014-02-19 03:28:27 PM  
I'm so glad to have a revolution to cheer for that doesn't involve "Evil Dictator" VS "Evil Theocrats". I was getting tired of the constant let down from Syria and Egypt.
 
2014-02-19 03:28:31 PM  
A little perspective.  Yanukovich's total forces consist of:

- 3000 or so berkut soldiers
- a few divisions of NVC (ministry of the interior troops). not all of which will be particularly loyal
- maybe a few police forces in various towns

and that's it.  the actual military is constitutionally forbidden from taking part in internal disputes (including civil wars) and this is something that is taken very seriously by them.  there is essentially zero chance they will join any conflict.

the idea that yannick could just 'crush' the protesters easily heavily overstates his actual mechanisms of power.

additionally, please don't think that yannick loves putin.  in fact, he hates him.  however, yannick is between a rock and a hard place now and his 'street criminal' background is essentially guiding him by instinct to stay in power as he can.

i've beeen deeply involved with this situation since its onset.  it may not end well, but i kind of think it will.  unfortnately, i think the likely outcome will be the one that the protesters are now banging for but that they havent through through enough. they SHOULD be for international impartial organization of the 2015 pres elections, including insuring ballot access, ballot box access, and media control in the period leading up to it.  instead they are now on about early elections or, even worse, constitutional change.  The latter especially shows the immaturity of the protesters (mind you, i support them wholeheartedly) as they are trying to play politics with the constitution, which weakens their legitimacy.  sure, the bad guys did it too, but that's why they are the bad guys.
 
2014-02-19 03:29:08 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: I hope this region has oil or some other resource Europe craves. Otherwise, Russia will probably help crush that side of the civil war.


Will caviar work?
 
2014-02-19 03:30:18 PM  
i.imgur.com i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-19 03:31:37 PM  
Lviv

What's so important about 55 and 4?

//or is it 56 and 5?
 
2014-02-19 03:32:30 PM  

That Guy Jeff: I'm so glad to have a revolution to cheer for that doesn't involve "Evil Dictator" VS "Evil Theocrats". I was getting tired of the constant let down from Syria and Egypt.


I guess you haven't noticed the stage at Maiden or peen listening to the priest they bring in.
 
2014-02-19 03:34:08 PM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: and that's it.  the actual military is constitutionally forbidden from taking part in internal disputes (including civil wars) and this is something that is taken very seriously by them.  there is essentially zero chance they will join any conflict.


I read just read that Yabukovych sacked the commander in chief and installed a new one...do you think it's possible a yes man might be game to shiat on the constitution?
 
2014-02-19 03:35:46 PM  

bdub77: MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?

That would be hugely stupid. It's much better to find out which side favors trade agreements with Russia and then arm those people. See: Syria.


I doubt Putin would even try that. Any hint that he's about to go full Soviet in Eastern Europe and the EU will shut off the gas lines that bring Western Europe natural gas and oil and send oodles cash back to Moscow. The last thing Western Europe wants is a return to Russian satellite states growing them in from the east.

What's more is Putin know's it. That's why he's been playing the kids version of what the US used to do in LAtin America. Send chests of cash and intel to politicians to get them into power where they can do nice things for you, like sign exclusive trade deals that render your own country n economic satellite state of Russia...again.

Whats more is the Ukraine's putative status with regards to NATO. The Ukraine took far more concrete steps than Georgia ever did to join the alliance. Sending into troops into a nation that has previously been enthusiastic about NATO membership might set off some alarms over at the SACEUR's office. Which if you think how the match up between tiny, lightly armed Georgia and the might of the Russian army went, means that any attempt by Russian forces to take on a modern Western military falls somewhere between a desperate plea for assisted suicide and potato.
 
2014-02-19 03:36:27 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-19 03:36:37 PM  

DamnYankees: MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?

That would be quite the bold move, as its not his country.


Didn't stop him before.
 
2014-02-19 03:38:19 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Bomb Head Mohammed: and that's it.  the actual military is constitutionally forbidden from taking part in internal disputes (including civil wars) and this is something that is taken very seriously by them.  there is essentially zero chance they will join any conflict.

I read just read that Yabukovych sacked the commander in chief and installed a new one...do you think it's possible a yes man might be game to shiat on the constitution?


The military chief was replaced with someone who is very pro-military. Additionally, he declared all of the protestors terrorists which gives the military carte blanche to get involved.
 
2014-02-19 03:38:28 PM  
www.interpretermag.com
Places where stuff is going on.
 
2014-02-19 03:41:11 PM  

DetrimentalScience: HotWingConspiracy: Bomb Head Mohammed: and that's it.  the actual military is constitutionally forbidden from taking part in internal disputes (including civil wars) and this is something that is taken very seriously by them.  there is essentially zero chance they will join any conflict.

I read just read that Yabukovych sacked the commander in chief and installed a new one...do you think it's possible a yes man might be game to shiat on the constitution?

The military chief was replaced with someone who is very pro-military. Additionally, he declared all of the protestors terrorists which gives the military carte blanche to get involved.


err pro-kremlin
 
2014-02-19 03:43:13 PM  
I hope the place gets partitioned. Everyone will have to go out and buy new maps. A boost our economy sorely needs.
 
2014-02-19 03:46:15 PM  
 
2014-02-19 03:46:40 PM  
If this is even remotely successful in the Ukraine, look for Belarus to erupt and Minsk to become a battleground that's far worse.

If Ukrainians thought they had it bad -- take a look at the near dictatorship and staunch Communist hold-outs ruling with an iron fist in Belarus.
 
2014-02-19 03:48:54 PM  
We all kraine for Ukraine.
 
2014-02-19 03:53:13 PM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: additionally, please don't think that yannick loves putin.  in fact, he hates him.  however, yannick is between a rock and a hard place now


It's enough to give him a mykraine headache.
 
2014-02-19 03:53:37 PM  
 
2014-02-19 03:55:34 PM  

rockradio1: If this is even remotely successful in the Ukraine, look for Belarus to erupt and Minsk to become a battleground that's far worse.

If Ukrainians thought they had it bad -- take a look at the near dictatorship and staunch Communist hold-outs ruling with an iron fist in Belarus.


CSB:

My SO is getting her PhD and one of her classmates is from Belarus.  I usually like to ask international grad/undergrad students if they want to return to their home country when they are done studying.

"Hey Constantine, do you want to go back to Belarus after graduation?"

And with a stone face that would make Mt Rushmore look soft, he replied without skipping a beat

"No."

/Then began an hour discussion about the government of Belarus
//Don't blame him
 
2014-02-19 03:57:15 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Epresso TV live stream of Maiden


It looks like somebody is celebrating with fireworks.  And tires?
 
2014-02-19 03:57:38 PM  

bdub77: MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?

That would be hugely stupid. It's much better to find out which side favors trade agreements with Russia and then arm those people. See: Syria.


Who stops him?  The world is rapidly seeing Ukraine as belonging to Russia, if they didn't already.
 
2014-02-19 03:58:30 PM  

Ambitwistor: Bomb Head Mohammed: additionally, please don't think that yannick loves putin.  in fact, he hates him.  however, yannick is between a rock and a hard place now

It's enough to give him a mykraine headache.


I loled
 
2014-02-19 03:59:06 PM  

Ned Stark: I hope the place gets partitioned. Everyone will have to go out and buy new maps. A boost our economy sorely needs.


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-19 03:59:15 PM  

DECMATH: tinfoil-hat maggie: Epresso TV live stream of Maiden

It looks like somebody is celebrating with fireworks.  And tires?


It a fun concert really.
 
2014-02-19 04:03:29 PM  

Pubby: bdub77: MaudlinMutantMollusk: What's the line on Putin rolling in the tanks?

That would be hugely stupid. It's much better to find out which side favors trade agreements with Russia and then arm those people. See: Syria.

I doubt Putin would even try that. Any hint that he's about to go full Soviet in Eastern Europe and the EU will shut off the gas lines that bring Western Europe natural gas and oil and send oodles cash back to Moscow. The last thing Western Europe wants is a return to Russian satellite states growing them in from the east.

What's more is Putin know's it. That's why he's been playing the kids version of what the US used to do in LAtin America. Send chests of cash and intel to politicians to get them into power where they can do nice things for you, like sign exclusive trade deals that render your own country n economic satellite state of Russia...again.

Whats more is the Ukraine's putative status with regards to NATO. The Ukraine took far more concrete steps than Georgia ever did to join the alliance. Sending into troops into a nation that has previously been enthusiastic about NATO membership might set off some alarms over at the SACEUR's office. Which if you think how the match up between tiny, lightly armed Georgia and the might of the Russian army went, means that any attempt by Russian forces to take on a modern Western military falls somewhere between a desperate plea for assisted suicide and potato.


Considering Russia's typical response to political issues with Eastern Europe is "cut of natural gas supplies until they comply" I don't think that threat is going to be too effective. And more likely than sending troops into the Ukraine is to cut of gas supplies to dissenting regions with teh elp of the Ukraine government.
 
2014-02-19 04:03:41 PM  
I wonder how the eu will react to this. On the one hand, they want pro western government, on the other, supporting a group that ha effectively broken away from the central government might come back to haunt them in pleases like Catalonia
 
2014-02-19 04:04:06 PM  

cgraves67: dittybopper: This land is Ukraine,
this land is Mykraine
From Zakarpattia,
To the Luhansk Oblast
From Chernobyl,
to the Black Sea waters,
This Kraine was made for U and Me.

*golf clap*


All Ur Kraines r belong to (R)us(sia)!
 
2014-02-19 04:05:23 PM  
The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine.
 
2014-02-19 04:07:48 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: [www.interpretermag.com image 620x377]
Places where stuff is going on.


That's weak.
 
2014-02-19 04:08:03 PM  
HotWingConspiracy: Bomb Head Mohammed: and that's it.  the actual military is constitutionally forbidden from taking part in internal disputes (including civil wars) and this is something that is taken very seriously by them.  there is essentially zero chance they will join any conflict.

I read just read that Yabukovych sacked the commander in chief and installed a new one...do you think it's possible a yes man might be game to shiat on the constitution?

This is the fear.  I suspect the army guy who got sacked told Yannick flat out something to the effect that he didn't care much for either the protesters or the government but that his duty was to the constitution.  However, I don't think just sacking one chief will change the fundamental fact that every officer has the same "we only deal with external threats" philosophy drilled into them and as a basic part of their oath.   It's not like a small thing to them - this "external threats only" is really a core part of their oath that they as military people take very seriously.

The bigger question is why yannick has fired his top military guy at a time like this.  Basically it comes down to he did the same sort of math that I outlined in my previous post and this is the first time he personally really encountered the military mindset that he was only peripherally aware of.

At least, that's my hope in what the situation is.  My confidence level in my particular interpretation here is only around 70%.
 
2014-02-19 04:08:24 PM  
Obviously Russia wants Ukraine. By taking it he can stop the EU from controlling all of Europe and collecting 5 extra armies per turn.
 
2014-02-19 04:08:28 PM  

dittybopper: This land is Ukraine,
this land is Mykraine
From Zakarpattia,
To the Luhansk Oblast
From Chernobyl,
to the Black Sea waters,
This Kraine was made for U and Me.


Win
 
2014-02-19 04:08:32 PM  

vpb: devildog123: Do these guys have any troops with guns on their side, or are they just hoping that the central government won't drop the Army on their laps and tear them apart?

The Minister of Defense has stated that the Army isn't going to get involved.

Besides, Ceausescu tried that and he ended up against a wall.


Always my favorite scene, Ceausescu and his wife, sitting at the table, threatening the military officers, while outside the firing squad is being formed up.  Well, bye!
 
2014-02-19 04:10:48 PM  

error 303: The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine.


Missed it by  that much.
 
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