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(CNN)   After yesterday's bloodshed, Ukrainian president Yanukovych decides to dial back the rhetoric and become a voice of reason. Just kidding, he orders protesters to "disassociate themselves" from each other or be considered enemies of the state   (cnn.com) divider line 337
    More: Followup, President Viktor Yanukovych, Ukrainian President, Ukrainian, enemy of the state, moral support, Government of Ukraine, Catherine Ashton, Independence Square  
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2138 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2014 at 1:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-19 07:31:31 PM  

LewDux: FarkedOver: neo-nazi groups

FarkedOver: fascism

FarkedOver: right-wing neo-nazi groups

FarkedOver: Protestors who happen to be nazi

FarkedOver: Most of the groups are moderate right-wing to far right-wing.

FarkedOver: Nazi Party

FarkedOver: Neo-Nazis


FarkedOver: I'm just asking


I'd just like to point out that this also further demonstrates my point.  If we do not look deeper instead of just seeing the superficial first take then that is a problem.  What LewDux points out here is that we can contort and conform a message to suit our own personal needs.  I'm not supporting the Ukrainian government and not supporting the protesters.  There's enough bullshiat to go around on both sides.  If you all want to assume this protest is just on all fronts, by all means.... go right ahead.  You all do so at your own detriment.

RanDomino: FarkedOver

You're just salty that they tore down that Lenin statue.


tinfoil-hat maggie
"The fact of the matter is we have made very clear to the Ukrainian government that it is their responsibility to allow for people (to) protest," Rhodes said.

"Peaceful protest" means "protest we agree with". People tried protesting in America two and a half years ago and everybody got arrested.

If there's one lesson from Euromaidan, and Tahrir for that matter, it's this: If you want your government to pay attention, you're going to have to set a whole lot of police on fire. Sorry moralizing pacifists, it's farking empirical at this point.


Rann, I agree with you 9 times out of 10.  I can only assume you've been reading the anarchist perspective coming out of Ukraine.  I know I have, and I know the intimidation from the right amongst the protesters is cause for concern. This is something anarchists and communists would unite on.
 
2014-02-19 07:41:37 PM  
FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8
 
2014-02-19 07:49:13 PM  

flexflint: FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8


Blocked at work. Care to describe the video briefly?
 
2014-02-19 07:53:31 PM  
I doubt Jewish youth would be marching with the protesters if there was a neo-nazi movement within (http://www.jta.org/2013/12/08/news-opinion/world/young-jews-take-par t- in-ukrainian-protests-along-with-ultranationalists )
In fact, there has been some great support from the Jewish community for the protests.

Farked Over, you also seem to think that the gov't is responding to violence initiated by the protesters and are in some way justified in doing so.  The exact opposite has been true.  Every act of violence has been started by gov't forces, starting with the Nov 30 beatings (when there were about 300 protesters).  Google the sequence of events and the violent flare ups as a result.  The Maidan protesters have been amazingly restrained.  I've watched the feeds for 2.5 months now (I have a crush on Ruslana :)) and the protesters have fed and sometimes even treated young soldiers of the Interior Army.  There have always been calls for restraint from the Maidan.  All viiolence has started with Berkut attacks and titushky attacking random people
 
2014-02-19 07:55:06 PM  

FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.

This has been going on for a lot longer than this week.  When the state has been met with violence before, they will respond with violence.  This is just how it is.  I'm not condoning it, it's just how it farking is.

It sure farking sounds like you're condoning it because you don't like the people protesting, despite farking everyone telling you that the NeoNazis aren't even a significant minority in the protests.  And, of course, despite multiple people showing you that the issue has split Ukraine down the middle you're still spouting off how it's "not a popular movement" and "doesn't have the support of the Ukrainians".

I don't mind protesting.  The motivation of the protests is what is key.  Everyone has not told me Neo-Nazis aren't a significant minority. I'd say only a significant minority of posts here suggest that. I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation.  Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.


Dude, when did you get the job with RT?
 
2014-02-19 07:59:05 PM  

zimbomba63: FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.

This has been going on for a lot longer than this week.  When the state has been met with violence before, they will respond with violence.  This is just how it is.  I'm not condoning it, it's just how it farking is.

It sure farking sounds like you're condoning it because you don't like the people protesting, despite farking everyone telling you that the NeoNazis aren't even a significant minority in the protests.  And, of course, despite multiple people showing you that the issue has split Ukraine down the middle you're still spouting off how it's "not a popular movement" and "doesn't have the support of the Ukrainians".

I don't mind protesting.  The motivation of the protests is what is key.  Everyone has not told me Neo-Nazis aren't a significant minority. I'd say only a significant minority of posts here suggest that. I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation.  Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.

Dude, when did you get the job with RT?


Do you have evidence or are you one in on this dogpile?
 
2014-02-19 08:01:53 PM  

danzak: I doubt Jewish youth would be marching with the protesters if there was a neo-nazi movement within (http://www.jta.org/2013/12/08/news-opinion/world/young-jews-take-par t- in-ukrainian-protests-along-with-ultranationalists )
In fact, there has been some great support from the Jewish community for the protests.

Farked Over, you also seem to think that the gov't is responding to violence initiated by the protesters and are in some way justified in doing so.  The exact opposite has been true.  Every act of violence has been started by gov't forces, starting with the Nov 30 beatings (when there were about 300 protesters).  Google the sequence of events and the violent flare ups as a result.  The Maidan protesters have been amazingly restrained.  I've watched the feeds for 2.5 months now (I have a crush on Ruslana :)) and the protesters have fed and sometimes even treated young soldiers of the Interior Army.  There have always been calls for restraint from the Maidan.  All viiolence has started with Berkut attacks and titushky attacking random people


You seem to think.... I am not advocating violence against peaceful protesters.  I am not advocating for violence against the state.  I am advocating against violence toward those predisposed to violence.  The right-wing on the ground amongst the protesters.  They need to be smashed furiously into the ground.  They need to be smashed by the protesters themselves or the state.  I don't care who does it but the nationalist/fascist faction needs to be snuffed out permanently.
 
2014-02-19 08:03:30 PM  

zimbomba63: Dude, when did you get the job with RT?


I'm sorry I don't support nazis and fascists.
 
2014-02-19 08:04:07 PM  
Checkout the peaceful protesters with guns.
Link
From yesterdays thread.
 
2014-02-19 08:07:42 PM  

FarkedOver: under a mountain: Pwned

Damn, the bar is set low these days for "pwning"


You managed to bang your head on it.
 
2014-02-19 08:08:30 PM  
There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg
 
2014-02-19 08:10:53 PM  

zimbomba63: FarkedOver: under a mountain: Pwned

Damn, the bar is set low these days for "pwning"

You managed to bang your head on it.


ok?
 
2014-02-19 08:16:21 PM  
Ukraine's far-right Svoboda party hold torch-lit Kiev march
From that article: Some of those marching on Wednesday did so in the uniform of a Ukrainian division of the German army in World War Two, AP reports.

Ukrainians veer toward right-wing nationalism
FTA: Few Ukrainians are fond of their current "corrupt dictator." Yet their swing toward the opposition will serve them no better. The Svoboda Party holds 10 percent of parliament and only just removed its Nazi insignia.

http://www.academia.edu/2481420/_The_Return_of_the_Ukrainian_Far_Rig ht _The_Case_of_VO_Svoboda_in_Ruth_Wodak_and_John_E._Richardson_eds._Anal yzing_Fascist_Discourse_European_Fascism_in_Talk_and_Text_London_and_N ew_York_Routledge_2013_228-255
 
2014-02-19 08:22:09 PM  
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-divided-over-wwii-legacy-100702056.html

This is from August 2013..... Ukrainians that took up arms with Nazi Germany were honored by some in the government and by a lot of nationalist parties.... please, someone defend joining the SS and honoring a brave person's sacrifice for fighting on behalf of the SS.
 
2014-02-19 08:22:11 PM  

FarkedOver: flexflint: FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8

Blocked at work. Care to describe the video briefly?


It shows what happens when you let lunatics and hooligans do the dirty work, because history repeats itself. See the Basij in Iran, the violent thugs in Egypt, etcetera.

From here, unlinkable: https://www.facebook.com/gela.turabelidze.1/posts/10203322700849307?st ream_ref=5 , "Street fights in Kiev. The Maidan "Self-defense forces" fighting "titushki" from Kharkov. The titushki were shooting a pistol and using homemade explosives filled with nails. This is a nice video to watch after you see the "Titushki" thugs beating up peaceful protesters. "
 
2014-02-19 08:23:26 PM  

flexflint: FarkedOver: flexflint: FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8

Blocked at work. Care to describe the video briefly?

It shows what happens when you let lunatics and hooligans do the dirty work, because history repeats itself. See the Basij in Iran, the violent thugs in Egypt, etcetera.

From here, unlinkable: https://www.facebook.com/gela.turabelidze.1/posts/10203322700849307?st ream_ref=5 , "Street fights in Kiev. The Maidan "Self-defense forces" fighting "titushki" from Kharkov. The titushki were shooting a pistol and using homemade explosives filled with nails. This is a nice video to watch after you see the "Titushki" thugs beating up peaceful protesters. "


That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.
 
2014-02-19 08:29:38 PM  

FarkedOver: That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.


It's sorta funny Marx is sorta like Jesus everyone feel strongly one way or another about what they said but so few people ever bothered to read or follow what was actually said.

/Now I'm gonna get flamed.
 
2014-02-19 08:30:35 PM  

FarkedOver: There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg


Jeezus man, you're nuts. 
You do realize that Ukraine was part of the USSR after WW2 right?  I don't think they were sheltering Nazi's from justice.
 
2014-02-19 08:31:25 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.

It's sorta funny Marx is sorta like Jesus everyone feel strongly one way or another about what they said but so few people ever bothered to read or follow what was actually said.

/Now I'm gonna get flamed.


You're entering a world of hurt.... I'm sorry :(
 
2014-02-19 08:33:07 PM  

danzak: Jeezus man, you're nuts.
You do realize that Ukraine was part of the USSR after WW2 right? I don't think they were sheltering Nazi's from justice.


I don't make up history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_S S_ %281st_Ukrainian%29
 
2014-02-19 08:37:53 PM  

FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.

It's sorta funny Marx is sorta like Jesus everyone feel strongly one way or another about what they said but so few people ever bothered to read or follow what was actually said.

/Now I'm gonna get flamed.

You're entering a world of hurt.... I'm sorry :(


Meh nothin' better to do : )

www.interpretermag.com
"Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.
 
2014-02-19 08:43:49 PM  

FarkedOver: flexflint: FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8

Blocked at work. Care to describe the video briefly?


Wait, you have a job?  I thought you would be busy spending your day haranguing the masses.  Or is that on weekends only?
 
2014-02-19 08:44:58 PM  

zimbomba63: FarkedOver: flexflint: FarkedOver

Let me show you your Marxism. Your Marxism, let me show you it: http://youtu.be/d50uu5EAvm8

Blocked at work. Care to describe the video briefly?

Wait, you have a job?  I thought you would be busy spending your day haranguing the masses.  Or is that on weekends only?


I do what I can when I can. Most people do.
 
2014-02-19 08:45:08 PM  

FarkedOver: danzak: Jeezus man, you're nuts.
You do realize that Ukraine was part of the USSR after WW2 right? I don't think they were sheltering Nazi's from justice.

I don't make up history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_S S_ %281st_Ukrainian%29


From your link:
Active 28 April 1943 - 15 April 1945
 
2014-02-19 08:45:59 PM  

Confabulat: My 78-year-old Ukrainian mother had no idea about any of this when I talked to her yesterday. I wasn't surprised, she's 78 years old and not always up on current events, so I explained a bit about what I knew. Her father fought against the Bolsheviks so I made some comment about how history always repeats itself to which she replied, "Oh yeah, like Matthew McConaughy said in True Detective last week, time is like a flat circle" and I immediately had to reassess everything I know about my mother.


The fool doesn't even understand that time is a cube. You are right to question her.
 
2014-02-19 08:46:57 PM  

danzak: FarkedOver: danzak: Jeezus man, you're nuts.
You do realize that Ukraine was part of the USSR after WW2 right? I don't think they were sheltering Nazi's from justice.

I don't make up history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_S S_ %281st_Ukrainian%29

From your link:
Active 28 April 1943 - 15 April 1945


From my news article in August 2013, they were being honored..... That's a problem.
 
2014-02-19 08:47:35 PM  

FarkedOver: zimbomba63: Dude, when did you get the job with RT?

I'm sorry I don't support nazis and fascists.


That's odd, from what I've seen you're reading their script.  Well, except today, they didn't even mention the Ukrainian situation.
 
2014-02-19 08:49:14 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.


Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.
 
2014-02-19 08:49:41 PM  

zimbomba63: FarkedOver: zimbomba63: Dude, when did you get the job with RT?

I'm sorry I don't support nazis and fascists.

That's odd, from what I've seen you're reading their script.  Well, except today, they didn't even mention the Ukrainian situation.


If you say so, you seem to be the expert on nazism.
 
2014-02-19 08:50:40 PM  

NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.


Lviv is also the same place where the Ukrainian SS division was "honored" in August.
 
2014-02-19 08:51:01 PM  

danzak: FarkedOver: danzak: Jeezus man, you're nuts.
You do realize that Ukraine was part of the USSR after WW2 right? I don't think they were sheltering Nazi's from justice.

I don't make up history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_S S_ %281st_Ukrainian%29

From your link:
Active 28 April 1943 - 15 April 1945


Did you think SS divisions stayed active after the war?
I've got a link at 18:16:21 that say a bunch of those old men marched in the old uniforms
 
2014-02-19 08:56:07 PM  

FarkedOver: There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg


So what you're telling us, is that when the Soviets retook the Ukraine in 1944, they didn't bother any of the people who collaborated with the Nazis?  Now be very clear, this is what you are saying?  Oh yeah, citation please!
 
2014-02-19 08:57:34 PM  

NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.


Thy got the "artillery" when the army backed down and left the city instead of fighting probably why that guy got sacked.
 
2014-02-19 08:59:41 PM  

zimbomba63: So what you're telling us, is that when the Soviets retook the Ukraine in 1944, they didn't bother any of the people who collaborated with the Nazis? Now be very clear, this is what you are saying? Oh yeah, citation please!


I have absolutely zero problem with anyone who killed or imprisoned nazis or their collaborators in the aftermath of WW2.
 
2014-02-19 09:00:51 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.


Honey, those people have been in a long, dark winter for decades. What did you expect them to do? They started out peaceful, and it didn't work; what would your solution be?

Besides, those guns were probably given to them by the Ukrainian artillery regiments.
 
2014-02-19 09:02:24 PM  

zimbomba63: FarkedOver: There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg

So what you're telling us, is that when the Soviets retook the Ukraine in 1944, they didn't bother any of the people who collaborated with the Nazis?  Now be very clear, this is what you are saying?  Oh yeah, citation please!


Yea man that's why East Germany had no Germans left alive once the Soviets got there.

/Moran.
 
2014-02-19 09:02:42 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Thy got the "artillery" when the army backed down and left the city instead of fighting probably why that guy got sacked.


No, that's not "probably why that guy got sacked" ... .
 
2014-02-19 09:07:15 PM  
Farmed Over, have a read here. This showed up on my FB feed

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-a n d-ukraine/
 
2014-02-19 09:08:03 PM  
Sorry, remove the spaces, don't know why they're added
 
2014-02-19 09:08:06 PM  

flexflint: tinfoil-hat maggie: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Thy got the "artillery" when the army backed down and left the city instead of fighting probably why that guy got sacked.

No, that's not "probably why that guy got sacked" ... .


Well thanks for explaining thing to me...
 
2014-02-19 09:09:26 PM  

danzak: Sorry, remove the spaces, don't know why they're added


Learn to link it's easy really
 
2014-02-19 09:10:01 PM  

FarkedOver: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Lviv is also the same place where the Ukrainian SS division was "honored" in August.


And?  Are you saying that Lyiv is now the "National Socialist Republic of Lyiv"?
 
2014-02-19 09:11:08 PM  

danzak: Farmed Over, have a read here. This showed up on my FB feed

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-a n d-ukraine/


Thanks :) I will check it out.  Gracias!
 
2014-02-19 09:14:29 PM  

NEDM: And? Are you saying that Lyiv is now the "National Socialist Republic of Lyiv"?


Take it with a grain of salt is all I'm saying as this area has been known to be sympathetic to the far right.

Revolutions are a tricky thing.  Revolutions are ripe for opportunists and are frequently ruined by those opportunists.  The far right is very opportunistic and it always has been.  If the far right can be staved off, great.... it's a wait and see approach more than anything.
 
2014-02-19 09:14:55 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: flexflint: tinfoil-hat maggie: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Thy got the "artillery" when the army backed down and left the city instead of fighting probably why that guy got sacked.

No, that's not "probably why that guy got sacked" ... .

Well thanks for explaining thing to me...


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-f eb -19-live-updates-337098.html
"Head of the armed forces Volodymyr Zamana near Kyiv Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych replaced Zamana on Feb. 19 after announcing a new "anti-terror" operation in response to the country's deadliest violence since its post-Soviet independence. Zamana was known to have publically disagreed with Yanukovych at the start of the month when the embattled Ukrainian leader first considered imposing a state of emergency in response to the wave of pro-EU protests gripping Kiev and other parts of the country."

He wasn't the first to openly question Yanu's decisions, and if things deteriorate, he certainly won't be the last.
 
2014-02-19 09:18:53 PM  

NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Lviv is also the same place where the Ukrainian SS division was "honored" in August.

And?  Are you saying that Lyiv is now the "National Socialist Republic of Lyiv"?


NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Lviv is also the same place where the Ukrainian SS division was "honored" in August.

And?  Are you saying that Lyiv is now the "National Socialist Republic of Lyiv"?


I don't believe they've named a government yet.

news.bbcimg.co.uk
Jan 12014, Kiev march
 
2014-02-19 09:22:02 PM  

flexflint: tinfoil-hat maggie: flexflint: tinfoil-hat maggie: NEDM: tinfoil-hat maggie: "Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Yes, Lyiv has declared independence yesterday.  Considering how the government has been acting, it's perfectly understandable for them to have deployed artillery.

Thy got the "artillery" when the army backed down and left the city instead of fighting probably why that guy got sacked.

No, that's not "probably why that guy got sacked" ... .

Well thanks for explaining thing to me...

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-f eb -19-live-updates-337098.html
"Head of the armed forces Volodymyr Zamana near Kyiv Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych replaced Zamana on Feb. 19 after announcing a new "anti-terror" operation in response to the country's deadliest violence since its post-Soviet independence. Zamana was known to have publically disagreed with Yanukovych at the start of the month when the embattled Ukrainian leader first considered imposing a state of emergency in response to the wave of pro-EU protests gripping Kiev and other parts of the country."

He wasn't the first to openly question Yanu's decisions, and if things deteriorate, he certainly won't be the last.


That's beter I like citations and supported positions, thanks.
 
2014-02-19 09:22:45 PM  

FarkedOver: There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg


If that's what it takes to have a serious "Nazi

tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.

It's sorta funny Marx is sorta like Jesus everyone feel strongly one way or another about what they said but so few people ever bothered to read or follow what was actually said.

/Now I'm gonna get flamed.

You're entering a world of hurt.... I'm sorry :(

Meh nothin' better to do : )

[www.interpretermag.com image 620x382]
"Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.


Technically, maggie, they're not protesters. They're the new state's defense forces.

They were protesters for MONTHS. Peacefully, at that, until people started disappearing, women started getting raped, and protesters started getting shot.

Nonviolent protest refers to both sides of the equation. Once the state starts getting violent, it's a good idea for the people to start getting violent right back.
 
2014-02-19 09:23:53 PM  

iq_in_binary: FarkedOver: There is a Nazi/Fascist problem in Ukraine whether you all want to admit it or not.  Svoboda  has seats in the government.  They actively support nationalism and nazism.  They honor Ukrainian citizens who joined the SS.  There is a white power movement in Ukraine whether or not you all want to admit it or not and they have an active violent presence on the ground in these protests.  I know it's a tough pill to swallow but it is the truth. They have prosecuted ZERO people for warm crimes that occurred during WW2 and this is a problem considering the atrocities committed by the Nazi war machine.  Ukraine has a Nazi problem.

dealwithit.jpg

If that's what it takes to have a serious "Nazitinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: That in no way, shape or form describes marxism.... If you think it does, please try reading any of Marx's works again.

It's sorta funny Marx is sorta like Jesus everyone feel strongly one way or another about what they said but so few people ever bothered to read or follow what was actually said.

/Now I'm gonna get flamed.

You're entering a world of hurt.... I'm sorry :(

Meh nothin' better to do : )

[www.interpretermag.com image 620x382]
"Peaceful protesters" in Lviv with antitank guns.

Technically, maggie, they're not protesters. They're the new state's defense forces.

They were protesters for MONTHS. Peacefully, at that, until people started disappearing, women started getting raped, and protesters started getting shot.

Nonviolent protest refers to both sides of the equation. Once the state starts getting violent, it's a good idea for the people to start getting violent right back.

Dammit

 
2014-02-19 09:25:16 PM  

FarkedOver: zimbomba63: FarkedOver: zimbomba63: Dude, when did you get the job with RT?

I'm sorry I don't support nazis and fascists.

That's odd, from what I've seen you're reading their script.  Well, except today, they didn't even mention the Ukrainian situation.

If you say so, you seem to be the expert on nazism.


Wait, so you're saying that RT is a mouthpiece for nazis and/or fascists, but, RT says that the Ukrainian protestors are nazis and/or fascists, but, RT is Russia's mouthpiece supporting Yanokovych, so does that make him a nazi and/or fascist, too?  So, nazis and/or fascists are rebelling against nazis and/or fascists, while a nazi and/or fascist new outlet chooses sides. Gosh, your world is so confusing.
 
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