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(CNN)   After yesterday's bloodshed, Ukrainian president Yanukovych decides to dial back the rhetoric and become a voice of reason. Just kidding, he orders protesters to "disassociate themselves" from each other or be considered enemies of the state   (cnn.com) divider line 337
    More: Followup, President Viktor Yanukovych, Ukrainian President, Ukrainian, enemy of the state, moral support, Government of Ukraine, Catherine Ashton, Independence Square  
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2129 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2014 at 1:14 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-19 02:41:18 PM

FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: Ukraine Liveblog: Day 2 of The Battle For Maidan Lots of info.

Your source will be discredited as it is Russian in nature.  Obviously western media is correct.


Funny I just just saw an EU parliament member on the stage promising support in Kiev.
 
2014-02-19 02:43:22 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: Ukraine Liveblog: Day 2 of The Battle For Maidan Lots of info.

Your source will be discredited as it is Russian in nature.  Obviously western media is correct.

Funny I just just saw an EU parliament member on the stage promising support in Kiev.


The EU shouldn't be writing checks that their ass can't cash.
 
2014-02-19 02:43:38 PM

FarkedOver: hellfrozeover: Having spent a somewhat lengthy period of time living in Ukraine (specifically the east) I can tell you have no finger on the pulse of the common person there. While there are certainly some factions of neo nazis and other extremist groups, not to mention the very common European anti-semitism, the majority of Ukrainians are sick of Russia manipulating their government in the back room.

I talked to several friends who are there, including some in Kyiv over the past day or so and many are also disgusted by the lack of western support.

What they are trying to do may not be perfect but the system there today is nothing short of criminal.

Earlier in this thread I posted survey data that showed most people DO NOT support the protests and most people DO NOT support the tactics used by the protesters.

If you care to back up your position with real data other than anecdotal evidence, I'd be glad to listen.  If you can disprove the data I have given I would also be glad to listen.


Here's one.  Funny, it says the exact opposite of the survey you found.
 
2014-02-19 02:44:03 PM

FarkedOver: I have no problem with cracking down on nationalistic protestors.  Stamp out fascism before it takes root.


There are some extremists that have joined the protests and unfortunately some are violent, but to characterize the majority of the movement as "fascist" is false. Where are you getting your information, the Ukrainian government? The Russian govenrment perhaps? Or maybe it's someone like Dr. Stephen Cohen? Link goes to a debate moderated by Amy Goodman. Scroll to the end where Cohen defends Vladimir Putin. Neat!

The Ukrainian government wants to be closer to Putin's authoritarian Russia. If you're so anti-nationalism, how is supporting that remotely justifiable? Will you try to claim that nationalism and fascism are terrible, but authoritarianism is just dandy?

The truth is that the opposition includes people from the left, right, and center. Svoboda hard liners do not comprise the majority of the protesters. A cursory look at Ukrainian politics shows that traditional views of opposing left and right wing forces are very muddled there. Pro-EU vs. Pro-Russia is a far more meaningful divide.

Of course Russia and the Ukrainian government want to paint the opposition as nothing but a bunch of violent, far right wing fascists. It's a lie, but it will make it okay to crush them. How nice that they have people like you to carry water for them.
 
2014-02-19 02:45:36 PM

FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: FarkedOver: tinfoil-hat maggie: Ukraine Liveblog: Day 2 of The Battle For Maidan Lots of info.

Your source will be discredited as it is Russian in nature.  Obviously western media is correct.

Funny I just just saw an EU parliament member on the stage promising support in Kiev.

The EU shouldn't be writing checks that their ass can't cash.


The White House is gonna go for sanctions, LOL. Seems the EU will go along

1651 GMT: The White House has condemned the Ukrainian government's actions as "outrageous." AFP reports:
Clashes in Kiev between police and anti-government protesters that have claimed 26 lives are "completely outrageous" and "have no place in the 21st century," Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes told reporters aboard Air Force One.

"The fact of the matter is we have made very clear to the Ukrainian government that it is their responsibility to allow for people (to) protest," Rhodes said.

"We consistently oppose any of the violence by all sides, but the responsibility is on the government to pull back its riot police, to call a truce and to engage in a meaningful discussion with the opposition about the way forward."
 
2014-02-19 02:46:12 PM

NEDM: Here's one. Funny, it says the exact opposite of the survey you found.


That's pretty much in agreement with what mine said.  I think it just used different language.
 
2014-02-19 02:47:27 PM

Further evidence that this is an East Ukraine/West Ukraine conflict:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Uk r aine_elections_map

Will Ukraine end up like Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia?
 
2014-02-19 02:48:23 PM

hellfrozeover: Your data also shows that 86% of people in western Ukraine support the protests while 81% of those in the east do not. Without spending time to go searching for other studies on my mobile, or checking out the credibility of this particular research company (color me shocked if the money isn't traced to a politician or Russian national), it at the very least confirms that the country is strongly split geographically, which is no surprise at all.


It falls in line with the population.  The western half of the country speaks and is mostly Ukrainian, while the east is Russian.  The western half wants to be with EU and the right Russia.  The cities and army are also split so we are looking at a real civil war in the making. The big question is what will Russia do when it breaks out into open warfare.
 
2014-02-19 02:49:29 PM

FarkedOver: NEDM: Here's one. Funny, it says the exact opposite of the survey you found.

That's pretty much in agreement with what mine said.  I think it just used different language.

When being asked about their attitude to the Euromaidan, 49.0% of the respondents expressed complete or greater support, while 45.5% oppose Euromaidan (to full or greater degree), the research said.


Yeah, no.
 
2014-02-19 02:49:49 PM

patrick767: FarkedOver: I have no problem with cracking down on nationalistic protestors.  Stamp out fascism before it takes root.

There are some extremists that have joined the protests and unfortunately some are violent, but to characterize the majority of the movement as "fascist" is false. Where are you getting your information, the Ukrainian government? The Russian govenrment perhaps? Or maybe it's someone like Dr. Stephen Cohen? Link goes to a debate moderated by Amy Goodman. Scroll to the end where Cohen defends Vladimir Putin. Neat!

The Ukrainian government wants to be closer to Putin's authoritarian Russia. If you're so anti-nationalism, how is supporting that remotely justifiable? Will you try to claim that nationalism and fascism are terrible, but authoritarianism is just dandy?

The truth is that the opposition includes people from the left, right, and center. Svoboda hard liners do not comprise the majority of the protesters. A cursory look at Ukrainian politics shows that traditional views of opposing left and right wing forces are very muddled there. Pro-EU vs. Pro-Russia is a far more meaningful divide.

Of course Russia and the Ukrainian government want to paint the opposition as nothing but a bunch of violent, far right wing fascists. It's a lie, but it will make it okay to crush them. How nice that they have people like you to carry water for them.


If you've read my further comments you'd clearly see that I don't think people should support the Ukrainian government.  But that does not mean that should hitch their wagon to these protesters.

And again as stated earlier:

On November 7th 1923 there was a protest where 3,000 people got out into the streets, where they battled with police and military forces all day, where the state had previously banned this groups meetings, all said and done 18 people were killed by police.  Without further info we could mourn the deaths of those people at the brutal hands of the state. We could support the large crowd of people, we could rally behind this protest.  But what if I told you that this protest took place in Munich Germany, that it stood against the government because it believed it was being ran by Jewish traitors, that it was anti-government because these protesters despised democratic government, that it was led by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party.  With that context I'm sure that our outlook on this protest would change dramatically.  The point being that in politics context is EVERYTHING.

The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.
 
2014-02-19 02:52:05 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: Here's one. Funny, it says the exact opposite of the survey you found.

That's pretty much in agreement with what mine said.  I think it just used different language.

When being asked about their attitude to the Euromaidan, 49.0% of the respondents expressed complete or greater support, while 45.5% oppose Euromaidan (to full or greater degree), the research said.

Yeah, no.


Your data is from a week later so that is to be expected.  I'm sure the number is going to go up initially as this new round of violence sinks in.
 
2014-02-19 02:52:23 PM

FarkedOver: If you can disprove the data I have given I would also be glad to listen.


not to disprove but to share an interpretation.

If you limit your polling to oblast centers, i think, especially in the Ukraine, you can get an obvious  representation of the administrative cities (that are  Russian friendly, that's where the money is).

WHETHER SUPPORT EUROMAYDAN % to the questioned
Yes in total = 44
No in total = 51
found difficult to answer = 5
The maximum level of support of Euromaydan is registered in oblast centers in the West of Ukraine (86%) while 81% of residents of oblast centers of Eastern Ukraine do not support Euromaydan.

apparently has something to do with the history of Ukraine, Russia & newly added western cities & the opposing views of each.

ATTITUDE TO THE FACT THAT IN THE NUMBER OF OBLASTS PROTESTERS CAPTURED / TRIED TO CAPTURE OBLAST STATE ADMINISTRATIONS % to the

positive in total = 32
Negative in total = 60
found difficult to answer = 8
negative attitude to take-over or attempts to capture oblast state administrations by protesters while a third of the questioned have positive attitude to such practice (32%).

this may say more about how people feel about violence and civil unrest in their own backyard.
i don't see this as having anything to do with supporting euromaydan or not, it's a survival instinct. people don't want to kill other people for power.

finally & what i view as most important is the last poll.
WHETHER CIVIL WAR THREATENS UKRAINE % to the questioned
this says to me that most see that civil war is coming (already here?). that is to say they know that the people of Ukraine are not going to sit diddly by why the President sides with Russia over the best interests of the people.

what i'm saing is that the link you provided (to me) doesn't provide a solid answer.

/messy i know.
 
2014-02-19 02:52:53 PM

FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.


Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.
 
2014-02-19 02:54:45 PM

Isitoveryet: what i'm saing is that the link you provided (to me) doesn't provide a solid answer.


No doubt about it.  The whole point of my posts in this thread is that we shouldn't automatically back a protest.
 
2014-02-19 02:55:50 PM
Which side are Zakhaev and the ultranationalists on?
 
2014-02-19 02:56:44 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.


This has been going on for a lot longer than this week.  When the state has been met with violence before, they will respond with violence.  This is just how it is.  I'm not condoning it, it's just how it farking is.
 
2014-02-19 02:57:01 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: Here's one. Funny, it says the exact opposite of the survey you found.

That's pretty much in agreement with what mine said.  I think it just used different language.

When being asked about their attitude to the Euromaidan, 49.0% of the respondents expressed complete or greater support, while 45.5% oppose Euromaidan (to full or greater degree), the research said.

Yeah, no.


They both say Ukraine is split and headed or in a civil war. Police stations are being overrun. Volyn Governor Alexander Bashkalenko was captured Lviv declared indepence went government buildings and radio stations were taken, it's crazy.
 
2014-02-19 02:57:55 PM
A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.
 
2014-02-19 02:58:22 PM
Those that know the difference between right wing and nazi are getting a chuckle over this show of ignorance.

Personally I'll be happy if it winds up as a complete clusterfark that keeps everybody over there busy and leaves us alone
 
2014-02-19 02:59:33 PM

Isitoveryet: DetrimentalScience: and the west is too weak to step in

don't you think the EU should step in WAY before the U.S. starts knocking down fences to invade someones back yard?


Is invade the first word in the dictionary in USA?

Where the fark did you get that notion from?


Anyways, the EU has already implemented travel santions, and is now debating how to implement economic sanctions. The EU doesn't want to fark up Ukraine more than it is by just shutting down their economy (which would also likely force them into the arms of Russia), but is looking at which individuals, oligarchs and politicians, they can hurt financially.
 
2014-02-19 02:59:39 PM

FarkedOver: http://rb.com.ua/eng/projects/omnibus/8911/

Here is some interesting data.  Most people surveyed don't support the protest and most people disapprove of the tactics used by the protestors.


44 against 51? And this is a poll from January. Same thing happened in Egypt: cops start to beat and shoot people, and your numbers aren't worth anything anymore. Add in some titushky's, which the populace already hated in the first place, and you've got things rolling.
 
2014-02-19 02:59:39 PM

patrick767: A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.


Agents provocateur.
 
2014-02-19 03:00:16 PM

FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.

This has been going on for a lot longer than this week.  When the state has been met with violence before, they will respond with violence.  This is just how it is.  I'm not condoning it, it's just how it farking is.


It sure farking sounds like you're condoning it because you don't like the people protesting, despite farking everyone telling you that the NeoNazis aren't even a significant minority in the protests.  And, of course, despite multiple people showing you that the issue has split Ukraine down the middle you're still spouting off how it's "not a popular movement" and "doesn't have the support of the Ukrainians".
 
2014-02-19 03:01:20 PM

patrick767: A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.


I'm not carrying water for the farking Ukrainian government.  I'm also not carrying water for these protesters.  I'm not denying that this is a messy situation.  I don't know what you want me to say to you, but clearly you want me to say something that is going to further piss you off.  Give me time, I'm sure it'll happen.
 
2014-02-19 03:03:12 PM

dj_bigbird: Isitoveryet: DetrimentalScience: and the west is too weak to step in

don't you think the EU should step in WAY before the U.S. starts knocking down fences to invade someones back yard?

It's cute how you think anyone in the EU would be willing to wade in against the Soviets...er...Russians.


No, that's farking insane. USA wouldn't be that insane either.

But of course, again, what is it with that "invade" thing? Are Americans braindead or something?

I didn't understand either posts before yours, as suggesting that the EU should invade anyone. Something the EU can't do, seeing as it isn't a political union, and doesn't have an army.
 
2014-02-19 03:03:44 PM

danzak: Here is an example of your "restraint".  Warning, NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DipJOV01Pr4">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=DipJOV01Pr4

This is from Khmelnytskyi filmed earlier today


/Ok..was that someone in the hotel (owner? manager) shooting? Or was it a protester.  I'm guessing it was someone who was guarding /staying in the building.  The one dude with the through and through should be ok, but the poor lady who took an AK round to the head is pretty much farked.  Very sad days.
 
2014-02-19 03:03:49 PM

FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.


The great majority of the protesters do not appear to be part of these "far right groups", so your claim is false. The protesters are anti-Russian obviously, but as I said, they come from the left, right, and center. Your characterization of them as far right wing fascists is misleading and fits perfectly with Russian and Ukrainian government propaganda.

Perhaps the police should not have decided to try to clear out the main protest camp yesterday that has been occupied for months. They went in with force and were met by force. People died on both sides.
 
2014-02-19 03:04:51 PM

JorgiX: They should just have a boxing match for the presidency.


your idea has many merit
 
2014-02-19 03:06:37 PM

cameroncrazy1984: patrick767: A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.

Agents provocateur.


You should have posted that response with a grammar nazi image.

Also, it's agents provocateurs.
 
2014-02-19 03:07:18 PM

patrick767: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

The great majority of the protesters do not appear to be part of these "far right groups", so your claim is false. The protesters are anti-Russian obviously, but as I said, they come from the left, right, and center. Your characterization of them as far right wing fascists is misleading and fits perfectly with Russian and Ukrainian government propaganda.

Perhaps the police should not have decided to try to clear out the main protest camp yesterday that has been occupied for months. They went in with force and were met by force. People died on both sides.


It's crazy to me that some guy thinks that all the protesters are far-right anti-Russian groups. Seems to me that the far-right would be very pro-Russia.
 
2014-02-19 03:07:49 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: NEDM: FarkedOver: The violent tendencies of the far right groups is what is creating this toxic event.

Yes, it's the Far Right who is responsible for those government troops machine-gunning a peaceful group in that video posted upthread.

This has been going on for a lot longer than this week.  When the state has been met with violence before, they will respond with violence.  This is just how it is.  I'm not condoning it, it's just how it farking is.

It sure farking sounds like you're condoning it because you don't like the people protesting, despite farking everyone telling you that the NeoNazis aren't even a significant minority in the protests.  And, of course, despite multiple people showing you that the issue has split Ukraine down the middle you're still spouting off how it's "not a popular movement" and "doesn't have the support of the Ukrainians".


I don't mind protesting.  The motivation of the protests is what is key.  Everyone has not told me Neo-Nazis aren't a significant minority. I'd say only a significant minority of posts here suggest that. I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation.  Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.
 
2014-02-19 03:08:28 PM

patrick767: cameroncrazy1984: patrick767: A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.

Agents provocateur.

You should have posted that response with a grammar nazi image.

Also, it's agents provocateurs.


So we were both wrong.
 
2014-02-19 03:09:18 PM

FarkedOver: I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation


Hooray appeals to authority!
 
2014-02-19 03:10:01 PM
FarkedOver:

I'm not carrying water for the farking Ukrainian government.  I'm also not carrying water for these protesters.  I'm not denying that this is a messy situation.  I don't know what you want me to say to you, but clearly you want me to say something that is going to further piss you off.  Give me time, I'm sure it'll happen.


See you don't seem to feel entirely comfortable with either side in the conflict, neither one representing a policy agenda that fully conforms with your beliefs and priorities.  Since you don't want to make a deal with either of the devils you'd just prefer to avoid the appearance of supporting either.

Unfortunately, that's exactly the wrong kind of response, especially for an outside observer.  By choosing to support neither side you fall for the classic fallacy of neutrality, that by remaining above the fray you won't have an impact on its outcome.  However, the balance of power between belligerents is not equal and one side (the Government) doesn't need outside assistance or support to overcome its opposition.  So by supporting neither side you are, in fact, "carrying water" for the government.  Have the courage to admit it.
 
2014-02-19 03:10:12 PM

patrick767: cameroncrazy1984: patrick767: A Ukrainian reporter was murdered in Kiev today.

FarkedOver:

Will you also claim that the titushki do not exist? It's been very widely reported that the government hires these thugs as both enforcers and to act as agent provocateurs, stirring up violence amidst the protesters.

Agents provocateur.

You should have posted that response with a grammar nazi image.

Also, it's agents provocateurs.


Usage example: "The agents provocateurs ordered four Whoppers Jr."
 
2014-02-19 03:10:27 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation

Hooray appeals to authority!


Huh? What?
 
2014-02-19 03:10:53 PM

FarkedOver: Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.


...Yes it farking does!  It means that half the farking country is behind it!  Jesus Christ, listen to yourself!
 
2014-02-19 03:13:04 PM

spawn73: Isitoveryet: DetrimentalScience: and the west is too weak to step in

don't you think the EU should step in WAY before the U.S. starts knocking down fences to invade someones back yard?

Is invade the first word in the dictionary in USA?

Where the fark did you get that notion from?


Anyways, the EU has already implemented travel santions, and is now debating how to implement economic sanctions. The EU doesn't want to fark up Ukraine more than it is by just shutting down their economy (which would also likely force them into the arms of Russia), but is looking at which individuals, oligarchs and politicians, they can hurt financially.


the first word in the english dictionary is A, invade doesn't come until you get into the I's.

i got the notion of the U.S. invading when i incorrectly interpreted the use of the term "west" in a post, then, i instantly realized my mistake. & thank you for being on top of things.

what's interesting is that some people believe that Yanukovych was playing both sides of the coin, he was holding out on signing the EU agreement in the hopes that Russia would increase their bailout while demanding more money form the EU simply to bring Ukraine up to EU standards of business.

what gets me is that it seems that he has Ukraines best interests in mind but his heart will always take him home to mother Russia.

so send him to Russia.
 
2014-02-19 03:13:47 PM
Drone footage over Kiev

Something else to see technology at work (sigh)
 
2014-02-19 03:14:45 PM
Dear Ukraine,

Please don't go all Tiananmen Square on your protestors.

Thanks,

R
 
2014-02-19 03:16:55 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.

...Yes it farking does!  It means that half the farking country is behind it!  Jesus Christ, listen to yourself!


And half the country doesn't.  That doesn't sound very popular, it sounds more like civil war BS.  You need to relax man, you're getting bent out of shape like I came over your house and shiat in your cereal this morning.... Christ.
 
2014-02-19 03:17:33 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation

Hooray appeals to authority!

Huh? What?


Only you apparently have the authority to decide the "reality" of the situation. Those with differing opinions obviously don't.
 
2014-02-19 03:18:32 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I'd say that the people that claim the ultra-right groups aren't a vocal, disruptive, violent and influential minority are being disingenuous and not aware of the reality of the situation

Hooray appeals to authority!

Huh? What?

Only you apparently have the authority to decide the "reality" of the situation. Those with differing opinions obviously don't.


Ok.
 
2014-02-19 03:31:18 PM

vpb: I know where he can get some advice for handling the situation!

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 304x171]


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-19 03:43:16 PM
Fark has been a hive of scum and villainy for quite some time but I'm hard pressed to think of a subject where people have been so aggressively ignorant!  Ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine are (shock) pro Russian but even the East is starting to get fed up with Yanukovich's rule (there are protests even happening in Donbass and Kharkiv).  Ethnic Ukrainians largely see themselves as European.  Full stop.  If you believe otherwise, you are not qualified to hold even a casual discussion on this topic.

But then again, what the hell would an Ethnic Ukrainian that speaks the language know?  Listening to the speakers themselves with no filter obviously doesn't hold a candle to FarkedOver's wild assertions from government propaganda sources!  Before you go on about your poll again, it is pretty damn clear to everyone that polls mean jack and shiat even HERE in the US.  You want to use those polls as hard evidence when their media makes Fox News look legit:img.fark.net
Rough translations:
Left: "What Russian media showed"
Right: "What I saw"
 
2014-02-19 03:46:49 PM

NEDM: FarkedOver: Split down the middle does not equal popular movement or support of the Ukrainian people.

...Yes it farking does!  It means that half the farking country is behind it!  Jesus Christ, listen to yourself!


i17.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-19 03:51:55 PM
So, are we going to start having an official news recap stickied at the top, and  green blue/yellow thread banners?

/this feels so 2009
//seriously though, I hope things turn out well for the average Ukrainian in all this unrest
 
2014-02-19 03:58:01 PM

Farkin' Uke: Fark has been a hive of scum and villainy for quite some time but I'm hard pressed to think of a subject where people have been so aggressively ignorant!  Ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine are (shock) pro Russian but even the East is starting to get fed up with Yanukovich's rule (there are protests even happening in Donbass and Kharkiv).  Ethnic Ukrainians largely see themselves as European.  Full stop.  If you believe otherwise, you are not qualified to hold even a casual discussion on this topic.

But then again, what the hell would an Ethnic Ukrainian that speaks the language know?  Listening to the speakers themselves with no filter obviously doesn't hold a candle to FarkedOver's wild assertions from government propaganda sources!  Before you go on about your poll again, it is pretty damn clear to everyone that polls mean jack and shiat even HERE in the US.  You want to use those polls as hard evidence when their media makes Fox News look legit:[img.fark.net image 600x270]
Rough translations:
Left: "What Russian media showed"
Right: "What I saw"


I already stated that poll was old, and the new poll reflects newer numbers.  As the state responds with more violence the protests support will increase.  That's just how it goes.

Maybe the heroic SS Galician division will ride in to rescue the people of Ukraine from the godless soviet horde!
 
2014-02-19 04:03:13 PM
What are they yelling on stage?  Sounds like "slava nazi" ?
 
2014-02-19 04:04:43 PM
2100 GMT: Pravda is reporting that opposition leader Vitali Klitschko and others have re-entered negotiations with President Yanukovych, and there would be a temporary ceasefire where police officers would hold off on assaulting Maidan Square.
This is a developing story.
 
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