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(Washington Post)   The Department of Homeland Security wants to build a national license plate tracking system that will track every driver's movements around the country. What is your destination, citizen?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 147
    More: Scary, Homeland Securities, Department of Homeland Security, tracking system, bus drivers, Virginia General Assembly, Customs Enforcement, on-ramps, mass surveillance  
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4389 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2014 at 9:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-19 11:38:45 AM  

Wangiss: CombinedEffort: Welcome to the United Kingdom, citizensubject...

FTF accuracy


No, you didn't.
 
2014-02-19 11:39:01 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: GoldSpider: MBA Whore: Why the fark is my government screwing my country?

We get it, he's black.

What the fark does skin color have to do with anything?


i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-19 11:41:55 AM  
This slippery slope leads to:

i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-02-19 11:42:33 AM  

saywhat: Spare me the phony outrage - if you didn't think they were already doing this then you're a naive fool.  In many states they take pictures of your license plate at every toll booth so that they can send you a bill.   They probably take a picture at every traffic light camera.  Same thing with credit card use - every time you use one they know where you are.  They use facial recognition software in shopping malls for goodness sake.  That barn doors been open for a long time and frankly I'm not that worried about it.  If the information being gathered starts being used inappropriately (currently undefined on my part), I'll be part of the uprising.


When I crossed a toll bridge in Washington State without any cash I got a bill in the mail. The private company that pursues their tolls allowed me to purchase a transponder and credit part of the purchase to my fine. I thought that was pretty clever.

When the government uses private organizations to accomplish compliance, it feels like fascism. Sadly, there's no solid definition of fascism. "A right-wing authoritarian government" is a sucky definition that can't really be applied to Washington, now, can it? Feels like a lexicographic cop-out (npi).
 
2014-02-19 11:42:37 AM  
So they are going to spend a bazillion dollars on a system that can be defeated by switching license plates with a $5 wrench.
 
2014-02-19 11:48:57 AM  
What do you think those traffic light cameras are for?

Old news.
 
2014-02-19 11:51:43 AM  

GoldSpider: pkellmey: Well, at least racism is alive and well at Fark.

Truly, these people didn't seem to mind this sort of thing when the white guy was president.


I sure minded it when the white guy was president.

I don't care if the next president is green with purple polka dots, it's still wrong.
 
2014-02-19 12:03:23 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: In junior high school, I 'learned' that Soviet citizens could not just up and take vacations, but had to report their movements to the government. Any divergence from their plan = firing squad.


I learned that from Red October... the guys with the accents said so.

"In America, you can travel between states with no papers"
"No papers?"
"No papers".

Ahh, remember the good old days when the US were the good guys and those wanting freedom looked up to us?
 
2014-02-19 12:10:18 PM  
People get wound up about the government being too intrusive in their lives and let their imaginations run wild.  Overall, I think most people would be pleased with the results of a government-accessible, GPS device placed in cars.

Pros:  Amber alerts are a thing of the past.  Some dude snatched a kid and the police are on him.  Tracking dangerous criminals is much easier.  No more high-speed car chases as you can wait for the suspect's car to stop and/or plan measures to make him stop much more effectively.

Cons:  It's a slippery slope and could be used by some LEOs to track ex-girlfriends or government agencies with an agenda.

People either assume their government is completely incompetent or supremely pervasive and expert.  The answer is always somewhere in the middle.  People get spun up about some government bureaucrat monitoring their lives.  These jackwads couldn't even get Obamacare right when it was a cornerstone of his agenda and legacy.  You really think the same lot are going to be tracking your movements with ninja-like stealth and efficiency and using it for nefarious purposes?

Tracking chips in people's cars would be a way to easily increase safety for a large group of people and cost very little (in comparision) to other programs that we put up with to make us FEEL safer (I'm looking at you, TSA).  I get the argument that it would be the first step towards a totalitarian/invasive government.  I don't think that should stop us from taking steps that could help catch terrorists and criminals.
 
2014-02-19 12:11:37 PM  

deanis: Usually the liquor store or a bar. big farking deal.


*knocking at door*

"Greetings citizen.  We have noticed you spend an inordinate amount of time at liquor stores and local drinking establishments.  You must now come with us.  We are taking you mandatory rehabilitation and re-education.  Your employer has already been notified"
 
2014-02-19 12:16:24 PM  

FarkinNortherner: Wangiss: CombinedEffort: Welcome to the United Kingdom, citizensubject...

FTF accuracy

No, you didn't.


Oh. I'm sorry.
 
2014-02-19 12:16:34 PM  
More half ass effort by the gubment!! I can see their intention behind this 'effort' by why not just embed a chip in some standardized license plate? that way you know real time tracking information. Wouldn't that make more sense?
not saying I would support such an effort but it would make a lot lot more logical sense.
 
2014-02-19 12:27:03 PM  
I bet Michael Chertoff  is behind this. He made brazillions on airport scanners.
 
2014-02-19 12:38:47 PM  

aseras: I need to patent my infrared laser diode plate "illuminator" that makes cameras useless for this kind of thing, but looks perfectly fine to the naked eye.


Somebody has designed glasses that does that to obscure facial recognition.
 
2014-02-19 12:42:12 PM  
Private companies are allowed to own plate readers and use them ?
You stil have plate stickers?

Oh, America...
 
2014-02-19 12:42:54 PM  
I'm sure some friend/relative of a DHS employee will be getting a fat no-bid contract.
 
2014-02-19 12:44:03 PM  
I'm sure there are plenty of libs who had problems with FISA courts but are OK with this.  Suck it.
 
2014-02-19 01:00:41 PM  

Brick-House: [thewolfmancometh.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]


That was an awesome movie.
 
2014-02-19 01:02:51 PM  

LineNoise: Marcus Aurelius: SlothB77: Is it an improvement that they are telling us first instead of just doing it?

They're doing it already.  Now they're just fighting over who gets the data.

For a while now, around here at least, many cop cars have plate scanners on them that just run the plate of every car they see on the road, be they just tooling around town, or even parked on the street. It will pull the cars status, and the owners status. If the owner comes back with something outstanding, or your car isn't correctly registered, they will stop you.

There has never been an expectation of privacy as far as license plates are concerned.


I accept that if I am out in public, I can be subjected to such a scan.  Question I am curious about is if this would be legal or allowed in neighborhoods for cars parked in driveways (not everyone has a garage)?   I suspect not since police can use FLIR to try to detect grow houses.
 
2014-02-19 01:13:15 PM  

6655321: TSA will require a RFID chip in every plate-- random spot checks will ensure that the correct tag is on the proper vehicle. (Citizens cannot opt out of the inspections because as a requirement of your driving privileges you give the government or its agents the authority to search you and your vehicles without notice and recourse). Ad this to the automatic EZPass query and reporting system  Anyone who does not agree must be Unpatriotic and Unmutual.


Funny you should say that about the TSA... they tried to pull a stunt like that here in Tennessee not too long ago.
 
2014-02-19 01:39:32 PM  
I watch House of Cards not netflix so I know this is already happening.
 
2014-02-19 01:49:03 PM  
I like this idea
ic.pics.livejournal.com

All you gotta do it cause problems and make them blow their 'capture your ass' budget and you're home free!
 
2014-02-19 01:50:36 PM  

KidneyStone: I'd be cool with it if it only recorded plates of vehicles of real interest but it won't work that way.



The fact that they capture all plates is kinda the point of it. Say someone commits a crime in New York and then is tagged by their phone as they drive to Albany (or a crime is committed there obviously by the same person). It's going to need a decent crime as it's a shiat-load of work, but this is something I do on a daily basis.

The cops compare every plate that left New York to the ones that turn up in Albany - hey presto there's the crook's car, it doesn't even matter if it's a rental.

Personally I've worked out who did a child kidnap, a rape and several armed robberies. Not to mention a murder or three.

Why are so many farkers supporting criminals?
 
2014-02-19 01:51:47 PM  

mod3072: I'm sick and tired of these do-nothing half-measures. What we need to do is just assign a full-time DHS agent to every single person in the country. They will live with you, watch your every move, and report everything they see to the federal government. That information, of course, will have restricted access to protect your privacy, which is paramount. The government may have access to how many times you masturbated yesterday, but they would have to get a warrant from a top secret court that reports to no one in order to find out that the porn that you were watching at the time involved midgets, she-males and farm animals. All of the information about your life, from the fact that you are unable to satisfy your wife in the sack to how you only jiggle once and always get a little pee in your underwear, will be stored in a highly secure, hack-proof database. The password for that database will totally NOT be "password", so don't even try that one. It's a waste of time. The point is, even though the government may be recording the fact that you measure your penis with a ruler and then sob quietly in the dark, they totally will NOT use that against you unless someone accuses you of being a terrorist. Think about it. If you think it's going to be awkward making the dog lick peanut butter off of your balls with a government agent watching you, how hard is it going to be to plan a terrorist attack? It's going to be pretty damn hard. Once every single person in the US is fully monitored 24 hours/day, we will be truly free to live our lives without dealing with the constant, crippling fear that some goat herder is going to crash a 747 into our homes and then rape our daughters. Can you even imagine being that free? Sure, it's going to be a little weird the first few times you lure a homeless "woman" back to your house to exchange a half-eaten ham sandwich for a quick blowjob, but you'll get used to those watching eyes silently judging you. Just remember, it's for the child ...


But then if each person gets assigned their own DHS agent, then each agent will need an agent. And that agent will need an agent and so on, until we've got the human verson of a grey goo scenario.
 
2014-02-19 01:53:54 PM  

LordBeavis: People get wound up about the government being too intrusive in their lives and let their imaginations run wild.  Overall, I think most people would be pleased with the results of a government-accessible, GPS device placed in cars.

Pros:  Amber alerts are a thing of the past.  Some dude snatched a kid and the police are on him.  Tracking dangerous criminals is much easier.  No more high-speed car chases as you can wait for the suspect's car to stop and/or plan measures to make him stop much more effectively.

Cons:  It's a slippery slope and could be used by some LEOs to track ex-girlfriends or government agencies with an agenda.

People either assume their government is completely incompetent or supremely pervasive and expert.  The answer is always somewhere in the middle.  People get spun up about some government bureaucrat monitoring their lives.  These jackwads couldn't even get Obamacare right when it was a cornerstone of his agenda and legacy.  You really think the same lot are going to be tracking your movements with ninja-like stealth and efficiency and using it for nefarious purposes?

Tracking chips in people's cars would be a way to easily increase safety for a large group of people and cost very little (in comparision) to other programs that we put up with to make us FEEL safer (I'm looking at you, TSA).  I get the argument that it would be the first step towards a totalitarian/invasive government.  I don't think that should stop us from taking steps that could help catch terrorists and criminals.


Can't tell if serious, or just stupid.
 
2014-02-19 01:57:50 PM  

Hyjamon: LineNoise: Marcus Aurelius: SlothB77: Is it an improvement that they are telling us first instead of just doing it?

They're doing it already.  Now they're just fighting over who gets the data.

For a while now, around here at least, many cop cars have plate scanners on them that just run the plate of every car they see on the road, be they just tooling around town, or even parked on the street. It will pull the cars status, and the owners status. If the owner comes back with something outstanding, or your car isn't correctly registered, they will stop you.

There has never been an expectation of privacy as far as license plates are concerned.

I accept that if I am out in public, I can be subjected to such a scan.  Question I am curious about is if this would be legal or allowed in neighborhoods for cars parked in driveways (not everyone has a garage)?


It already is; aircraft (manned and unmanned) track cars, people, and objects -- including vehicles parked outdoors, and vehicles can also be tracked as they exit and enter garages.  We are fully surveilled at the discretion of who-the-fark-knows, even while in the "privacy" of our homes.  Online activity, phone data, bank records, everything.  LEOs are fully authorized to search your trash cans as well.  Nothing to see here, citizen.  Stay.  Asleep.
 
2014-02-19 02:05:45 PM  

MythDragon: mod3072: I'm sick and tired of these do-nothing half-measures. What we need to do is just assign a full-time DHS agent to every single person in the country. They will live with you, watch your every move, and report everything they see to the federal government. That information, of course, will have restricted access to protect your privacy, which is paramount. The government may have access to how many times you masturbated yesterday, but they would have to get a warrant from a top secret court that reports to no one in order to find out that the porn that you were watching at the time involved midgets, she-males and farm animals. All of the information about your life, from the fact that you are unable to satisfy your wife in the sack to how you only jiggle once and always get a little pee in your underwear, will be stored in a highly secure, hack-proof database. The password for that database will totally NOT be "password", so don't even try that one. It's a waste of time. The point is, even though the government may be recording the fact that you measure your penis with a ruler and then sob quietly in the dark, they totally will NOT use that against you unless someone accuses you of being a terrorist. Think about it. If you think it's going to be awkward making the dog lick peanut butter off of your balls with a government agent watching you, how hard is it going to be to plan a terrorist attack? It's going to be pretty damn hard. Once every single person in the US is fully monitored 24 hours/day, we will be truly free to live our lives without dealing with the constant, crippling fear that some goat herder is going to crash a 747 into our homes and then rape our daughters. Can you even imagine being that free? Sure, it's going to be a little weird the first few times you lure a homeless "woman" back to your house to exchange a half-eaten ham sandwich for a quick blowjob, but you'll get used to those watching eyes silently judging you. Just remember, it's for ...


Simple solution: find two people who hate each other, and then hire them to spy on each other. Everyone gets their own "spy buddy" to keep track of their whereabouts. You could even chain them together, so they don't slack off. I watch you, you watch me. We're all watchers, and we're all watched. Sure, it's going to be inconvenient, but that's just the price we pay for security.
 
2014-02-19 02:08:13 PM  

lunkhed: Why are so many farkers supporting criminals?


I don't "support criminals" -- I oppose unreasonable searching, which surveilling and tracking (and compiling the data) is.  The data is misconstrued and abused.
 
2014-02-19 02:33:37 PM  

saywhat: Spare me the phony outrage - if you didn't think they were already doing this then you're a naive fool.  In many states they take pictures of your license plate at every toll booth so that they can send you a bill.   They probably take a picture at every traffic light camera.  Same thing with credit card use - every time you use one they know where you are.  They use facial recognition software in shopping malls for goodness sake.  That barn doors been open for a long time and frankly I'm not that worried about it.  If the information being gathered starts being used inappropriately (currently undefined on my part), I'll be part of the uprising.



It's cute that you think an uprising would be possible at that point. Too many movies for you, I think.
 
2014-02-19 02:37:54 PM  

mod3072: Simple solution: find two people who hate each other, and then hire them to spy on each other. Everyone gets their own "spy buddy" to keep track of their whereabouts


i1.ytimg.com

Scooter spy buddieeeeeeeeees!
 
2014-02-19 03:17:06 PM  

ginko: AliceBToklasLives: In junior high school, I 'learned' that Soviet citizens could not just up and take vacations, but had to report their movements to the government. Any divergence from their plan = firing squad.

I learned that from Red October... the guys with the accents said so.

"In America, you can travel between states with no papers"
"No papers?"
"No papers".

Ahh, remember the good old days when the US were the good guys and those wanting freedom looked up to us?


I do.  Even Ho Chi Minh quoted the U.S. Declaration of Independence in Vietnam's own Declaration.
 
2014-02-19 03:46:30 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: aseras: I need to patent my infrared laser diode plate "illuminator" that makes cameras useless for this kind of thing, but looks perfectly fine to the naked eye.

Somebody has designed glasses that does that to obscure facial recognition.


I saw that episode of White Collar too.
 
2014-02-19 03:48:02 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-19 03:51:24 PM  

CoonAce: lunkhed: Why are so many farkers supporting criminals?

I don't "support criminals" -- I oppose unreasonable searching, which surveilling and tracking (and compiling the data) is.  The data is misconstrued and abused.


Sadly it was only Scalia in his concurrence on Jones that noticed yhe aggregation of data can equal a search. The liberal justices didn't bat an eye since it was in public.

With enough information such as phone location and license plate readers, a government employee can basically recreate the life of an ordinary citizen without a warrant.
 
2014-02-19 03:56:16 PM  
MBA Whore
2014-02-19 09:44:53 AM


Why the fark is my government screwing my country?

Probably because we keep electing fascists.
 
2014-02-19 04:33:29 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I'm sure nothing bad could ever come of this.


And if you don't like it then you are racist.  That's a fact.
 
2014-02-19 04:38:06 PM  

MBA Whore: Why the fark is my government screwing my country?


Because we are letting them.
 
2014-02-19 07:51:36 PM  

BitwiseShift: You'll need to keep your license plate in the safe when ever you're not driving, because just like a gun, if someone steals it and commits a crime it's your fault.


When I was in Greece I noticed that the license plates were attached to cars with pop-rivets instead of screws. I asked about it and was told it was because theft of the 'number plates' as they are called, was a problem because people were stealing other cars' plates to fool all the red-light and speed cams. And since the numbers are assigned for the life of the car and never change, riveting the plate in place on your car was a good solution.
 
2014-02-19 07:59:17 PM  
UPDATE: PROGRAM CANCELLED (at least for now, until all the attention dies away and you don't notice, and it gets re-instated on a Friday afternoon on a three-day weekend)

Department of Homeland Security cancels national license-plate tracking plan
 
2014-02-19 09:13:52 PM  
U Shiat A!  U Shiat A!
 
2014-02-19 09:23:16 PM  
LOST TAG
 
2014-02-19 09:25:02 PM  

KeatingFive: MBA Whore: Why the fark is my government screwing my country?

We get the government people vote for. Talk to your neighbors.


A two-party system is a sham; at least the one in the United States of Murkin is.
 
2014-02-19 09:27:54 PM  

Alien Robot: UPDATE: PROGRAM CANCELLED (at least for now, until all the attention dies away and you don't notice, and it gets re-instated on a Friday afternoon on a three-day weekend)

Department of Homeland Security cancels national license-plate tracking plan


Well, that didn't take long. Looks like somebody forgot the first rule of bureaucratic life...never embarrass the boss.
 
2014-02-20 12:14:14 AM  
I luv the way they need a private company to do it, because a private company is not restricted in how they use the private information of 'customers'.  It's a way too get around the rules that 'hamstring' (read: stop from becoming Nazis) government departments. But nothing stops a government department from buying such information from a private company.

Anyone in a government department who suggests such things should be fired and then jailed for treason ... alas I fear the horse has already bolted and such 'tricky tricks' has become the norm ... "oh I just found a way for us too get around these pesky rules", "sweet here is your promotion"  (read the derp and hurdles the Bush era lawyers went through in order to change the concept of 'torture' into an acceptable proceedure called 'enhanced interrogation', and still none of those farks have gone to jail :(
 
2014-02-20 12:17:30 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: In junior high school, I 'learned' that Soviet citizens could not just up and take vacations, but had to report their movements to the government. Any divergence from their plan = firing squad.


Although the firing squad is an exageration, a citzen still cannot move freely around Russia - they have to report where they are staying.  My ex-boss went looking for a Russian bride and when she stayed at his hotel she had to show her ID and be logged into the database as having stayed there with him.  Most of Russia's supposed new freedoms are smoke screens, it's pretty much still the same totalitarian state.
 
2014-02-20 12:42:28 AM  

Wangiss: saywhat: Spare me the phony outrage - if you didn't think they were already doing this then you're a naive fool.  In many states they take pictures of your license plate at every toll booth so that they can send you a bill.   They probably take a picture at every traffic light camera.  Same thing with credit card use - every time you use one they know where you are.  They use facial recognition software in shopping malls for goodness sake.  That barn doors been open for a long time and frankly I'm not that worried about it.  If the information being gathered starts being used inappropriately (currently undefined on my part), I'll be part of the uprising.

When I crossed a toll bridge in Washington State without any cash I got a bill in the mail. The private company that pursues their tolls allowed me to purchase a transponder and credit part of the purchase to my fine. I thought that was pretty clever.

When the government uses private organizations to accomplish compliance, it feels like fascism. Sadly, there's no solid definition of fascism. "A right-wing authoritarian government" is a sucky definition that can't really be applied to Washington, now, can it? Feels like a lexicographic cop-out (npi).


The definition of fascism is pretty much: "a form of government in which there is a collusion between the government and corporations (the Elite) in order to control and direct the activities of the citizens in ways which benefit and maintain the control of said government and corporations (the Elite)."  Its basically a system in which corporations become as important as the government and in which the people come a very sad last third and human decency takes an even sadder last place.

They can often appear too be quite nice - bread and circuses (food and entertainment) have been historically shown to be a great way to keep the people/masses from responding (look too Singapore and Dubai as excellent modern examples).

Alas the central truth of a Fascist state is that the activities of the government and corporations is not too benefit the totality of the community, but to maintain the status quo and to enhance the power and wealth of the Elite.  Human Rights, Human Dignity, Common Decency, etc. are not in their play book.

Control and maintainance of the status quo are the name of the game.
 
2014-02-20 12:50:01 AM  
People don't seem to realize that an effective police force is a luxury.
 
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