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(Politico)   GA lawmakers introduce bill to protect gun owners who "accidentally" carry a gun into an airport. "A lot of people carry a weapon. It's almost like it's just a second nature to them. And sometimes they forget where they have {it}"   (m.politico.com) divider line 403
    More: Scary, carrying a firearm, Fort Worth International Airport, Chicago O'Hare, x-ray machines, airports  
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2572 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2014 at 12:25 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-18 03:15:23 PM

Molavian: You know, a national law to protect me from the millions of local laws designed by assholes to f*ck me over would be nice.


Millions? Boy. I thought it was bad that there was ONE law that mentioned me by name after the pickle incident.
 
2014-02-18 03:16:26 PM
Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the law making it illegal to have a gun on a  commercial jetliner ( unless checked in the hold) was Federal and not state.
 
2014-02-18 03:16:49 PM

lennavan: Either way you should spend some time in jail to sit there and feel bad about yourself.


You know, a quick Google suggests to me that most people that get caught don't even spend any time in jail. In fact, most of them seem to just get fines.
 
2014-02-18 03:17:39 PM

trappedspirit: Serious Black: Much like the "accidental discharge" that I am positive only exists in the realm of unicorns and leprechauns, I don't think inadvertent carrying of a gun exists.

You seem to have a serious reading comprehension problem with the English language then.  Both of those phrases exist, have verifiable definitions, and are understood by the general populous.


Sure, it is technically possible for a gun to have a manufacturing defect that allows a round to be discharged from the gun without a person pulling the trigger. That is a true accidental discharge. Those are rather unlikely though. Most handguns manufactured today have a drop safety that prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin when the gun is dropped. Shy of that drop safety malfunctioning and somebody dropping such a gun in a way that the hammer hits the firing pin in the process, the only way for a gun to discharge is for the person holding the gun to pull the trigger. And if you pull the trigger when you don't mean to do so, you err by using the word accident to describe the incident. The correct word for these kinds of situations is negligence. Most militaries around the globe automatically presume that a gun firing when the holder didn't mean for it to happen is negligence because they believe the holder is in control of the gun at all times. I don't think that's a ridiculous standard to apply to anyone who wants to concealed carry (or really own a gun in the first place). You're wielding a tool whose sole use is to destroy anything that is directly lined up with the muzzle.

As for inadvertently carrying, I'd love to hear your argument for how it is responsible for a gun owner to forget that they have a loaded gun on their person.
 
2014-02-18 03:20:11 PM

BubbaWilkins: To be clear,

Most of these people did not forget where they had their gun
.  What they forgot was that they aren't allowed on their person or in carry-on bags through the security checkpoint.  To them, its no different than having a pocket knife or a pair a clippers.  It's pretty easy to get into a routine where you know every place you go it's okay, but forget when going somewhere new.  I forgot I had a pocket knife when I walked into a Federal Building once.  Didn't even occur to me that it wasn't allowed until the security guard saw it in the objects dish as going through the screening.

Irresponsible yes, but I think the punishments are overly harsh for something that should simply be "I'm sorry sir/madam, but you need to store that firearm in your vehicle or other secure location.  We can't let you through with it."


You know what would be really farking awkward?  If there was an AP story with a quote that actually directly contradicted your "fact."

TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns, either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/guns-airlines-93695.html#ixzz2 th t5XqkU

Oh man this is awkward.
 
2014-02-18 03:26:54 PM

lennavan: The_Sponge: lennavan: I'm just curious, where in the fark did you read someone wants to prevent firearm ownership? Can you quote it for me? Because I'm not seeing that. Thanks.


"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it.  - Senator Feinstein

Ah okay.  So Fark.com linked an article discussing the legality of guns going through airport checkpoints and the thread is entirely filled with discussion about guns at airports.  No one in the entire thread or the article even used the word "Feinstein" let alone discussed Diane Feinstein or her policy positions.  Diane Feinstein works for the federal government and this article is about a state law.  So naturally it makes sense you were arguing about what Diane Feinstein said in 1995 and we should all attempt to defend it.

Seems legit.



I read your post too quickly and thus overlooked you were referencing only the linked article.

And I'm disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.
 
2014-02-18 03:28:11 PM
CSB:
Took a short trip and the bag I used for my luggage was previously used at the range. I get settled on the plane and go into my bag to get a book, when I noticed I still had several empty shell casings in there. (2 .45s, a 9mm, and five .22s if I remember). Security didn't say anything about it on the way through, but I didn't want to chance it on the way back, so I tucked them all into the seat pocket in front of me.

I figure at some point, it made someone's day more interesting.


Also there was one time I brought my rifle on board a flight. It was an military style assault weapon. I handed to the security guy, walked through the metal detector, and he gave me back my rifle. Of course I was on a deployement to Iraq, though. They did, however, confiscate my toenail clippers because of the 1 inch toejam pick. They said it was a dangerous item and not allowed.
 
2014-02-18 03:29:25 PM

skozlaw: lennavan: Either way you should spend some time in jail to sit there and feel bad about yourself.

You know, a quick Google suggests to me that most people that get caught don't even spend any time in jail. In fact, most of them seem to just get fines.


Oh I know, I actually think the laws need to go further.  If someone hits the point where they're not sure if they're currently carrying a gun or not, they should spend a few nights in jail to think about just how stupid they are.  Also from the article I posted just above:

If the state or jurisdiction where the airport is located has tolerant gun laws, TSA screeners will frequently hand the gun back to the passenger and recommend locking it in a car or finding some other safe place for it.
 
2014-02-18 03:29:59 PM

MythDragon: Also there was one time I brought my rifle on board a flight. It was an military style assault weapon. I handed to the security guy, walked through the metal detector, and he gave me back my rifle. Of course I was on a deployement to Iraq, though. They did, however, confiscate my toenail clippers because of the 1 inch toejam pick. They said it was a dangerous item and not allowed.


Reminds me of the story where they took a pilot's nail clippers away.

*FACE PALM*
 
2014-02-18 03:32:30 PM

James!: Only a handful of us can take over an airplane with a paperclip.


modestmovie.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-18 03:35:57 PM

The_Sponge: lennavan: The_Sponge: lennavan: I'm just curious, where in the fark did you read someone wants to prevent firearm ownership? Can you quote it for me? Because I'm not seeing that. Thanks.


"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it.  - Senator Feinstein

Ah okay.  So Fark.com linked an article discussing the legality of guns going through airport checkpoints and the thread is entirely filled with discussion about guns at airports.  No one in the entire thread or the article even used the word "Feinstein" let alone discussed Diane Feinstein or her policy positions.  Diane Feinstein works for the federal government and this article is about a state law.  So naturally it makes sense you were arguing about what Diane Feinstein said in 1995 and we should all attempt to defend it.

Seems legit.


I read your post too quickly and thus overlooked you were referencing only the linked article.

And I'm disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.


This tells me that your cut-off for what is and isn't stupid is not an acceptable one.
 
2014-02-18 03:36:39 PM

The_Sponge: I read your post too quickly and thus overlooked you were referencing only the linked article.


No, my post referenced your post.

The_Sponge: And firearm ownership is an important civil right, whether you like it or not.

Why the fark, in a thread about carrying guns past airport checkpoints, where the linked article is about carrying guns past airport checkpoints, and all of the posts are about carrying guns past airport checkpoints, would you bring up something about firearm ownership?
 
2014-02-18 03:36:39 PM
I've accidentally carried a knife through multiple airports in my carry on bag.

It was a solid confirmation of how useful the TSA is.
 
2014-02-18 03:38:00 PM

Molavian: Serious Black: dittybopper: inadvertently carry

Much like the "accidental discharge" that I am positive only exists in the realm of unicorns and leprechauns, I don't think inadvertent carrying of a gun exists. We are talking about a tool whose sole purpose is to annihilate anything and everything that the business end is pointed towards. I believe a responsible gun owner should know where their potentially deadly firearms are at all times. If that's too much for you to handle, you shouldn't own a gun.

I have 70+ guns.  I think most of them are locked up in the basement.


"If you know how many guns you own, you don't have enough"
I've only got 36. I thought I was doing my part to make up for the people who didn't own any, but now I see I haven't been trying hard enough :(
 
2014-02-18 03:41:02 PM

DrBenway: le.

And I'm NOT disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.

This tells me that your cut-off for what is and isn't stupid is not an acceptable one.


FARK!

/FTFM.
//And if you don't believe me, see my earlier posts in this thread.
 
2014-02-18 03:41:06 PM

The_Sponge: And firearm ownership is an important civil right, whether you like it or not.


That's so wrong it would need three lefts to be right again.  Firearm ownership isn't a "civil right".  It's a constitutional right*.  If black people couldn't own guns, then you'd have a civil rights issue.  This is an important distinction because a civil right is a matter of societal ethics and morality, whereas gun ownership isn't.  We only talk about it as a right because we have a specific founding document that says it is.  There's no philosophical basis to say that all decent civilizations must give their citizens the right to bear arms.

* For the purpose of the argument above I assumed there was an unfettered constitutional right to own firearms of most types, though in reality I firmly believe the modern interpretation of the second amendment is about as wrong as the statement of yours I responded to.
 
2014-02-18 03:41:51 PM

sugar_fetus: Felgraf: Then again, RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS (or at least one) think folks shouldn't be charged when a loaded gun is left out, and a 5 year old kills a 2 year old with it, so whatever.

Citation needed, please.


This thread : http://www.fark.com/comments/7728443/Giving-five-year-old-My-First-Ri f le-yields-predictable-results

Specifically,
http://www.fark.com/comments/7728443/83947482#c83947482 
I suppose I wasn't *quite* remembering correctly. They didn't explicitly say the person shouldn't be charged, they just said it was a "Crazy accident".
 
2014-02-18 03:43:22 PM
I do t really get what the big deal is in the first place. Anyone intent on killing people can walk into an airport with a gun. For snyone else, just provide a way to check it into cargo and go.

I can easily see how someone who carries daily could forget to leave it at home. I've lost a couple of keychain pocket knives at airports, I carry one all the time so I forgot to take it out and leave it at home.
 
2014-02-18 03:43:55 PM

Blues_X: If you forget that you are carrying a weapon designed to kill people, you're a dipsh*t.

Case closed.

Good day, sir.


This was good, I am surprised you didn't get more bites.
 
2014-02-18 03:44:27 PM

The_Sponge: Mentalpatient87: No, not that. That's not it. I meant the part where you're equating yourself to Rosa Parks. Like you are similar in any way at all. That's just farking stupid. But please, continue flailing.


I used an example of somebody standing up to an unjust law.

Fine....you guys want to rip on me for wanting to disobey an unjust law?  Fine.  Then I hope you guys "keep it real" by not smoking weed if it is illegal in your state.


You're not being ripped on because of standing up to an unjust law, you're being ripped on for the stratospherically idiotic notion of comparing yourself to Rosa Parks.
 
2014-02-18 03:45:26 PM

The_Sponge: I'm disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.


Fair enough, what other places do you feel it's not stupid to forget you have a firearm?  Is it stupid to forget you have a loaded gun in your closet?  Is it stupid to forget you have a loaded gun on you while you take a nap?  Is it stupid to forget you left a loaded gun out on your coffee table while you're at work and your kids are home?

I always thought responsible gun owners should know where their guns are at all times.  But here I am now learning there are gun rights advocates who think it's not stupid to forget where you left your gun.  And I really want some specific quotes out of you for the next time an article like a 4 year old girl shot herself because her father forgot he left his loaded gun laying out within her reach.  I will want to suggest that was stupid of him but it seems you will argue that's not stupid at all.
  http://www.kctv5.com/story/20555073/child-playing-with-gun-acciden tall y-shoots-self
 
2014-02-18 03:46:08 PM

Blues_X: dittybopper: Rev.K: Nothing to see here folks, just more Responsible Gun OwnershipTM

Because nothing says Responsible Gun OwnershipTM  quite like passing laws to protect negligent gun-owners.

Because nothing says "Common Sense Gun LawsTM" than sending people to prison for unintentional and inadvertent mistakes.

ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE


"I accidentally ran over that baby."


People accidentally run over kids all the time and aren't charged with murder. Sometimes it's involuntary manslaughter, sometimes it's negligence, other times it's just a tragic accident. I'm not one to punish someone for making a mistake.
 
2014-02-18 03:46:24 PM

James10952001: I can easily see how someone who carries daily could forget to leave it at home


Right, but that's precisely the kind of behavior we're trying to stop.
 
2014-02-18 03:46:45 PM

Tigger: You're not being ripped on because of standing up to an unjust law, you're being ripped on for the stratospherically idiotic notion of comparing yourself to Rosa Parks.



I wasn't comparing myself to her, I was using a famous example of somebody not obeying an unjust law.
 
2014-02-18 03:47:22 PM

Tigger: You're not being ripped on because of standing up to an unjust law


Actually I'm ripping on him for that, but your point is taken.
 
2014-02-18 03:47:50 PM

lennavan: The_Sponge: I'm disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.

Fair enough, what other places do you feel it's not stupid to forget you have a firearm?  Is it stupid to forget you have a loaded gun in your closet?  Is it stupid to forget you have a loaded gun on you while you take a nap?  Is it stupid to forget you left a loaded gun out on your coffee table while you're at work and your kids are home?

I always thought responsible gun owners should know where their guns are at all times.  But here I am now learning there are gun rights advocates who think it's not stupid to forget where you left your gun.  And I really want some specific quotes out of you for the next time an article like a 4 year old girl shot herself because her father forgot he left his loaded gun laying out within her reach.  I will want to suggest that was stupid of him but it seems you will argue that's not stupid at all.
  http://www.kctv5.com/story/20555073/child-playing-with-gun-acciden tall y-shoots-self



That was a typo.....meant to say "not disagreeing".

And if you think I'm lying, check out my earlier posts.
 
2014-02-18 03:48:05 PM

lennavan: BubbaWilkins: To be clear,

Most of these people did not forget where they had their gun.  What they forgot was that they aren't allowed on their person or in carry-on bags through the security checkpoint.  To them, its no different than having a pocket knife or a pair a clippers.  It's pretty easy to get into a routine where you know every place you go it's okay, but forget when going somewhere new.  I forgot I had a pocket knife when I walked into a Federal Building once.  Didn't even occur to me that it wasn't allowed until the security guard saw it in the objects dish as going through the screening.

Irresponsible yes, but I think the punishments are overly harsh for something that should simply be "I'm sorry sir/madam, but you need to store that firearm in your vehicle or other secure location.  We can't let you through with it."

You know what would be really farking awkward?  If there was an AP story with a quote that actually directly contradicted your "fact."

TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns, either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/guns-airlines-93695.html#ixzz2 th t5XqkU

Oh man this is awkward.


Nothing awkward, it's the simplest answer to give authorities which requires no additional explanation.
 
2014-02-18 03:49:02 PM

James10952001: People accidentally run over kids all the time and aren't charged with murder. Sometimes it's involuntary manslaughter, sometimes it's negligence, other times it's just a tragic accident. I'm not one to punish someone for making a mistake.


If you want to make your analogy more apt, it would be people who accidentally run over kids because they forgot to check their brake fluid for five years and their brakes went out while driving past a grade school.
 
2014-02-18 03:49:40 PM

The_Sponge: DrBenway: le.

And I'm NOT disagreeing that it's stupid to forget that you have a firearm in your carry-on bag or luggage.

This tells me that your cut-off for what is and isn't stupid is not an acceptable one.

FARK!

/FTFM.
//And if you don't believe me, see my earlier posts in this thread.


Ah, well then you can disregard my post above.  I'm not suggesting lengthy prison sentences.  Doing stupid shiat with guns has major consequences.  Forgetting where your gun is leads to these stories about kids shooting and killing themselves accidentally because daddy forgot he left his gun out.  So yeah, if somehow, such as during airport screenings, the authorities find out you had no idea where your gun is, that should be punishable by spending a few days in jail.  It's not so outrageous to suggest you should always know where your gun is at.
 
2014-02-18 03:50:26 PM

The_Sponge: I wasn't comparing myself to her, I was using a famous example of somebody not obeying an unjust law.


And the comparison between people of a certain race not being allowed to choose their own seat on a bus and you registering a handgun is patently absurd.  That's why you're being called out on it.
 
2014-02-18 03:52:34 PM

Trivia Jockey: The_Sponge: I wasn't comparing myself to her, I was using a famous example of somebody not obeying an unjust law.

And the comparison between people of a certain race not being allowed to choose their own seat on a bus and you registering a handgun is patently absurd.  That's why you're being called out on it.



It's examples of people disobeying unjust laws.....now to what degree are they important is a different matter.
 
2014-02-18 03:54:03 PM

Felgraf: sugar_fetus: Felgraf: Then again, RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS (or at least one) think folks shouldn't be charged when a loaded gun is left out, and a 5 year old kills a 2 year old with it, so whatever.

Citation needed, please.

This thread : http://www.fark.com/comments/7728443/Giving-five-year-old-My-First-Ri f le-yields-predictable-results

Specifically,
http://www.fark.com/comments/7728443/83947482#c83947482 
I suppose I wasn't *quite* remembering correctly. They didn't explicitly say the person shouldn't be charged, they just said it was a "Crazy accident".


As that citation does not say someone should not be charged,  your statement is wrong, yes?

Finally, some honesty in a Fark gun thread. :-)
 
2014-02-18 03:54:07 PM

lennavan: Ah, well then you can disregard my post above. I'm not suggesting lengthy prison sentences. Doing stupid shiat with guns has major consequences. Forgetting where your gun is leads to these stories about kids shooting and killing themselves accidentally because daddy forgot he left his gun out. So yeah, if somehow, such as during airport screenings, the authorities find out you had no idea where your gun is, that should be punishable by spending a few days in jail. It's not so outrageous to suggest you should always know where your gun is at.



I'm on the fence with a few days in jail, but HEFTY fines are definitely a must.
 
2014-02-18 03:55:21 PM

Molavian: Brainsick: /better go make sure

Ha, the joke's on you.  I lost all my guns in a tragic canoeing accident in the middle of Lake Michigan!


You've used that line online at least twice. Goes to criminal intent.
And nobody sane takes a farking canoe across the middle of Lake Michigan.
 
2014-02-18 03:56:59 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Molavian: Brainsick: /better go make sure

Ha, the joke's on you.  I lost all my guns in a tragic canoeing accident in the middle of Lake Michigan!

You've used that line online at least twice. Goes to criminal intent.
And nobody sane takes a farking canoe across the middle of Lake Michigan.



Mine were lost when I became a pacifist and threw them into Lake Chelan....the third deepest lake in the U.S.
 
2014-02-18 03:57:32 PM
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun*

*Unless the good guy doesn't even know he's carrying a gun
 
2014-02-18 03:58:19 PM

coeyagi: I accidentally violated the age of consent because I didn't check the 17 year old girl's age before porking her, officer. Mulligan?


...Okay. But if it happens 3 more times, I am issuing you a citation.
 
2014-02-18 03:58:25 PM

The_Sponge: Tigger: You're not being ripped on because of standing up to an unjust law, you're being ripped on for the stratospherically idiotic notion of comparing yourself to Rosa Parks.


I wasn't comparing myself to her, I was using a famous example of somebody not obeying an unjust law.


Brilliant.
 
2014-02-18 03:59:59 PM

The_Sponge: Trivia Jockey: The_Sponge: I wasn't comparing myself to her, I was using a famous example of somebody not obeying an unjust law.

And the comparison between people of a certain race not being allowed to choose their own seat on a bus and you registering a handgun is patently absurd.  That's why you're being called out on it.


It's examples of people disobeying unjust laws.....now to what degree are they important is a different matter.


It's implicit in bringing it up that you are drawing a parallel. That you're evading that point makes you disingenuous at best. Either that, or we're back to the question of your ability to discern what is and isn't too stupid.
 
2014-02-18 04:00:02 PM

BubbaWilkins: lennavan: BubbaWilkins: To be clear,

Most of these people did not forget where they had their gun.  What they forgot was that they aren't allowed on their person or in carry-on bags through the security checkpoint.  To them, its no different than having a pocket knife or a pair a clippers.  It's pretty easy to get into a routine where you know every place you go it's okay, but forget when going somewhere new.  I forgot I had a pocket knife when I walked into a Federal Building once.  Didn't even occur to me that it wasn't allowed until the security guard saw it in the objects dish as going through the screening.

Irresponsible yes, but I think the punishments are overly harsh for something that should simply be "I'm sorry sir/madam, but you need to store that firearm in your vehicle or other secure location.  We can't let you through with it."

You know what would be really farking awkward?  If there was an AP story with a quote that actually directly contradicted your "fact."

TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns, either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/guns-airlines-93695.html#ixzz2 th t5XqkU

Oh man this is awkward.

Nothing awkward, it's the simplest answer to give authorities which requires no additional explanation.


Right.  So when someone walks up to a security checkpoint and goes through the scanner looking for weapons and has their bags X-rayed looking for weapons, and there are signs and notices all over the damn place saying all the things you can't bring on the airplanes, including guns, it makes sense people forgot you're not allowed to bring guns on airplanes.

And sure that AP story quoting the TSA spokesperson directly stating forgetting they had the guns on them was the most common reason but your gut feeling knows better!

I love that you doubled down rather than admit you made a silly mistake in assuming what was true.
 
2014-02-18 04:02:12 PM

The_Sponge: Fine....you guys want to rip on me for wanting to disobey an unjust law? Fine. Then I hope you guys "keep it real" by not smoking weed if it is illegal in your state.


I smoke weed sometimes. I'm like Ghandi, Thoreau, Dalai Lama, John Lennon, and Lech Wałęsa combined.
 
2014-02-18 04:03:11 PM

The_Sponge: It's examples of people disobeying unjust laws.....now to what degree are they important is a different matter.


But the degree is what makes a comparison reasonable or not.
 
2014-02-18 04:04:27 PM

DrBenway: It's implicit in bringing it up that you are drawing a parallel. That you're evading that point makes you disingenuous at best. Either that, or we're back to the question of your ability to discern what is and isn't too stupid.



It was brought up because somebody essentially made the point that you should always obey the law.
 
2014-02-18 04:06:38 PM

lennavan: BubbaWilkins: lennavan: BubbaWilkins: To be clear,

Most of these people did not forget where they had their gun.  What they forgot was that they aren't allowed on their person or in carry-on bags through the security checkpoint.  To them, its no different than having a pocket knife or a pair a clippers.  It's pretty easy to get into a routine where you know every place you go it's okay, but forget when going somewhere new.  I forgot I had a pocket knife when I walked into a Federal Building once.  Didn't even occur to me that it wasn't allowed until the security guard saw it in the objects dish as going through the screening.

Irresponsible yes, but I think the punishments are overly harsh for something that should simply be "I'm sorry sir/madam, but you need to store that firearm in your vehicle or other secure location.  We can't let you through with it."

You know what would be really farking awkward?  If there was an AP story with a quote that actually directly contradicted your "fact."

TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns, either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/guns-airlines-93695.html#ixzz2 th t5XqkU

Oh man this is awkward.

Nothing awkward, it's the simplest answer to give authorities which requires no additional explanation.

Right.  So when someone walks up to a security checkpoint and goes through the scanner looking for weapons and has their bags X-rayed looking for weapons, and there are signs and notices all over the damn place saying all the things you can't bring on the airplanes, including guns, it makes sense people forgot you're not allowed to bring guns on airplanes.

And sure that AP story quoting the TSA spokesperson directly stating forgetting they had the guns on them was the most common reason but your gut feeling knows better!

I love ...


I aim to please....and also to keep the groupings tight.
 
2014-02-18 04:11:28 PM

The_Sponge: DrBenway: It's implicit in bringing it up that you are drawing a parallel. That you're evading that point makes you disingenuous at best. Either that, or we're back to the question of your ability to discern what is and isn't too stupid.


It was brought up because somebody essentially made the point that you should always obey the law.


So it was a comparison between Rosa Parks breaking the law and a gun owner breaking the law?

Noted.
 
2014-02-18 04:11:48 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Molavian: Brainsick: /better go make sure

Ha, the joke's on you.  I lost all my guns in a tragic canoeing accident in the middle of Lake Michigan!

You've used that line online at least twice. Goes to criminal intent.
And nobody sane takes a farking canoe across the middle of Lake Michigan.


See?  I have supporting evidence that my accident was not only possible, but probable!
 
2014-02-18 04:25:29 PM

James10952001: Sometimes it's involuntary manslaughter, sometimes it's negligence, other times it's just a tragic accident


For one thing, it's never an accident when some random citizen brings a gun in an airport. It's always negligence. Kids can run out in front of drivers who are doing everything right. Nobody's gun ever got up and jumped in their briefcase.

For another, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There are degrees of charges for running over children and their are degrees of charges for gun-in-airport incidents. If you run over a kid by mistake because you were going too fast, you get involuntary manslaughter. If you're a numbnut who doesn't take care with where his firearm is, you also get a lesser charge.

Now, if you aim your car at a group of schoolchildren and run them down, you're probably going to get a little bit stiffer sentence. Likewise, if you take your gun out in the damn terminal and start shooting people, you probably aren't just getting a fine.

Guns don't make you immune from the law or common sense. The same principals at play in virtually every other aspect of the law apply here. Crimes of "honest" negligence carry lighter penalties and crimes of malice carry stiffer penalties. This is true whether those crimes involve some nitwit with a gun or not. Why should negligent gun owners get mulligans? Generally speaking, negligent drivers don't. People who start a fire that gets out of control generally don't get an "oops my bad". Just because it's a gun owner doing something irresopnsible suddenly we're supposed to start making eceptions though?

How about no. A thousand dollar fine seems like a perfectly fine way to reinforce the notion that if you're going to carry a dangerous weapon around in public that maybe you should pay a little bit more attention to where it is. Some time in prison sounds like a perfectly fine way to reinforce that idea on repeat offenders. If you're that stupid you shouldn't be running around in public with a gun anyway.
 
2014-02-18 04:44:31 PM
Well I know this might seem like a shock to some of you, but you are allowed to carry firearms into the airport to be stowed underneath the plane, so that you can have them wherever you are going.

Hunting trips for instance, target shooting matches, whatever. We have a 2nd Amendment.

However Airport rules are very strict and can border on confusing as each state, city and municipality has its own laws.

So I believe they are trying to protect the guy who walks in and has his firearm in a soft case unlocked and forgot to notify the airport he was bringing it ahead of time, that sort of thing.
 
2014-02-18 04:47:08 PM
Outsider-looking-in here (though I've spent enough time in the USA to understand the local attitude to gun ownership and the 2nd amendment).

A loaded hand-gun is a weapon. It is designed to kill from a distance, which means that unlike a knife, it can be used without endangering the bearer. It is small enough to be concealed, unlike a rifle or cross-bow. It is therefore unique, and has to be singled out for particular scrutiny.

The whole debate around guns in the USA is also unique. While I've had Americans criticise Australia for our strict gun laws, I also acknowledge there is a massive difference between suppressing the rise of a gun culture in a country that doesn't have one, and attempting to remove guns from a country that was built on them.

But that doesn't change that with additional rights comes additional responsibility.

Being able to walk into an airport (or anywhere else) carrying a loaded weapon and not being aware of it is not being responsible. Any more than accidentally driving off with your child on top of the car is being responsible.

The severity of a risk has two components - the likelihood of occurring and the impact if it does.  Accidentally drinking out-of-date milk might be fine, but in the worst case it could cause you to feel sick to the stomach. Similarly, chances are an armed individual inside an airport is harmless, but if not, the consequences can be devastating. Same as having guns inside schools, or inside courts. There is a good reason why there are areas where these are restricted.

Should "intent" be an excuse for every transgression? Hell no. There was a little kid killed outside a school here late last year ago when another mother accidentally put the car in "drive" rather than "reverse" and plowed into a six-year old. Was it an accident? Yes. Did she intend to kill the child? No. But that level of carelessness merits punishment. The right to drive a vehicle comes with the responsibility to not drive it over children. She was charged with "gross negligence occassioning death". It would have been much better for everybody if the whole situation had never occurred, and a lot of laws where the potential impact is high exist to avoid them from occuring in the first place. Part of that deterence is punishment to the transgressor that enters the public awareness.

While you may have the right to own and carry one, you have a responsibility to follow the rules. This isn't a new rule that was imposed upon you. It was a rule that's existed a long time. If you don't follow the rules, you get punished. Your punishment deters others from doing the same thing. Society, as a whole, comes out ahead.

And I reject the "gun lockers at airports" idea. That's outsourcing your responsibility. "Well, if they didn't want us to carry guns on planes, they'd look after them for us". The world doesn't work that way, unless you want to live in some sort of socialist utopia... in which case they should clean your car, mind and feed your children and drop over to water your plants and feed your pets. If somebody wants to start a business nearby an airport offering gun-lockers, good on them. Entrepreneurship in its purest form.

"No one in this world, so far as I know - and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me - has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." -- Mencken.

Post 9/11, nobody can argue that they don't know that the TSA are going through everybody with a fine tooth comb... and/or a rubber glove. The full body scanner debate was all over the press for ages.

So to me, the answer is simple. If you are allowed to carry guns in public, but you walk into an airport, then they need to be treated the same way as nail files, bottled water, scissors and all the other crap that gets confiscated at a TSA point. You bring it in, you lose it. So it's a $5000 rare classic? Tough. You knew the rules.

As an aside, I can't reconcile how a culture that regards "socialism" and "liberal" as dirty words - that rejects social concepts such as universal health care on the ideological grounds that government should not be interfering in people's lives - can then turn around and expect that same government. to then step in and save them from their own stupidity. You can have it one way or the other. There seems to be an ingrained expectation that the entire structure of society - the government, the public service... and even The Church -- exists only to fulfill your particular individual needs. There is no empathy that the individual standing next to you also has needs... and at some point, all those individual needs seem to over lap.

I live in Australia, and we are also rapidly following the USA's lead into a culture of diminished personal responsibility. We don't have a Bill of Rights, but that hasn't stopped us being home to the second most litigious state in the world, behind only California. We have massive public spats between private cars, public transport users, pedestrians and cyclists... all believing they have the moral high ground. Personally, I see a great benefit to giving everybody a gun... fear of being held accountable might stop some of the aggression.
 
2014-02-18 04:51:01 PM
If you forget you're carrying it, how the hell are you going to remember to use it if you need it?
 
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