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(Politico)   GA lawmakers introduce bill to protect gun owners who "accidentally" carry a gun into an airport. "A lot of people carry a weapon. It's almost like it's just a second nature to them. And sometimes they forget where they have {it}"   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, carrying a firearm, Fort Worth International Airport, Chicago O'Hare, x-ray machines, airports  
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2603 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2014 at 12:25 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-18 12:41:21 PM  

vartian: Serious Black: If you forget where your gun is, you are an irresponsible gun owner. Period.

This. Your right to a gun does not absolve you from your responsibility for it.


Thisthisthis.

/pro-gun
//anti-idiot
 
2014-02-18 12:42:26 PM  
I accidentally drank too much alcohol and got behind a wheel and now Mary Jane Rottencrotch is dead, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:42:32 PM  

Trivia Jockey: dittybopper: Constantly, or just that one time because you were in a rush? Because they'd both be punished exactly the same.

They should be.  My god, allowing someone to be irresponsible with a gun because they're in a hurry is the f*cking definition of stuff I don't want.


Remember we aren't talking about shooting things recklessly, just forgetting that you left your legal handgun in a bag.

And BTW, that's what most of the cases are:  It's not someone actually carrying in a holster on their person, it's a gun left in a bag:

Most of the weapons confiscated in 2013 had gun permits and were found in the carry-on luggage of passengers.

But let's think some more about this:  If you declare your weapon and put it in your checked baggage, you're 100% OK legally.  So why not just give people the option (for a substantial fee!) to have that done, or, alternatively, to just have them stored (again for a substantial fee!) until they return from their trip.

I can't think of any rational security purpose for not doing that.  Hell, *ADVERTISE* that you're doing it:  People who carry concealed would probably be more likely to use an airport where they can check their guns right before going into the secure area than they would one where they would have to leave their guns at home.  Make money off of their fear.  It's Win-Win!
 
2014-02-18 12:42:39 PM  
Is this were all the gun nuts say "Well this guy was a irresponsible gun owner! Don't lump him with other gun owners" but then when someone suggests then that people should have training or the most basics of background checks the same people go "No no no! you can't do that!! They should be able to have guns and make mistakes!"

If you have no problem allowing irresponsible gun owners to have access to guns without even trying to weed them out to some degree you can't also pretend that they shouldn't count as normal gun owners. Because in your world you have no problem with them having easy access to guns.

Either you have to accept them as normal gun owners, or you can support laws for more responsible gun ownership - Saying they shouldn't be considered normal gun owners while be against anything to do make it harder for them to be gun owners is just not honest.

And shut up with the "Well if you pass these laws irresponsible people will still access guns" that's a BS argument only used for guns. Could you imagine someone saying "We should get rid of rape and murder laws because people can still rape and murder even after theses laws are in place!" The reason for laws is not to stop 100% of the activity it's too reduce it.
 
2014-02-18 12:42:41 PM  

Onkel Buck: vartian: Serious Black: If you forget where your gun is, you are an irresponsible gun owner. Period.

This. Your right to a gun does not absolve you from your responsibility for it.

That should be said about having children as well, but thats for another thread.

/pro gun
//anti- your children


I'm kinda both anti your gun and kids :)
 
2014-02-18 12:42:49 PM  
You would think this would be one of those no brainier things where everyone would be on the side of "WTF tard, how about keeping track of your deadly weapon and use some personal responsibility". But it looks like there's a few farkers who don't believe being responsible with your gun is necessary, your extremist views are noted so I can dismiss what you have to say on this subject in the future.
 
2014-02-18 12:42:49 PM  
CSB:

My gym bag has multiple uses....the gym (duh), and I occasionally use it to transport handguns to my local range, and use it as my carry-on bag when flying.

I never leave firearms in it once I'm home, but when I'm about to fly somewhere, I double-check it to make sure there isn't any loose ammo inside.
 
2014-02-18 12:43:03 PM  
I accidentally addressed the reimbursement check to me when another volunteer spent the funds and now I have $500 more than I should, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:43:39 PM  
I accidentally dropped a canister of cyanide outside the lab and now I am going to the funeral of a colleague, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:43:44 PM  
Stupid arguments are stupid.

People (in general) aren't "forgetting they have a gun."  They simply don't connect "carrying a gun" with "is illegal in the airport."

How many people do you think walk into a courthouse with their cellphone, or a small pocketknife?  Did they "forget they had a cellphone?"  No, they just neglected to make the mental connection between "jury duty" and "no cellphones."
 
2014-02-18 12:44:12 PM  

The_Sponge: CSB:

My gym bag has multiple uses....the gym (duh), and I occasionally use it to transport handguns to my local range, and use it as my carry-on bag when flying.

I never leave firearms in it once I'm home, but when I'm about to fly somewhere, I double-check it to make sure there isn't any loose ammo inside.


When you check your bag to ensure that their aren't any guns or ammo in it do you feel Obama's boot on your neck?
 
2014-02-18 12:44:35 PM  
I accidentally violated the age of consent because I didn't check the 17 year old girl's age before porking her, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:45:08 PM  

coeyagi: I accidentally left my cigarette burning while falling asleep and now my two cats and 3 kids are dead, officer. Mulligan?


A blonde is walking down the street.

A guy says, "Hey lady....there's a tampon in your mouth."

She says, "F*ck!  What did I do with my cigarette?"
 
2014-02-18 12:45:15 PM  

dittybopper: Trivia Jockey: It includes: knowing where your gun is at all times,

I'm 50 miles away from my guns, and have been for several hours.  I can't guarantee with 100% certainty where they are.  Am I irresponsible?


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2014-02-18 12:46:05 PM  
I accidentally ran over a girl crossing the street because I was texting, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:46:25 PM  
Considering that a gun would probably be discovered in an area under federal jurisdiction, this law would mean precisely squat.
 
2014-02-18 12:47:01 PM  

The_Sponge: coeyagi: I accidentally left my cigarette burning while falling asleep and now my two cats and 3 kids are dead, officer. Mulligan?

A blonde is walking down the street.

A guy says, "Hey lady....there's a tampon in your mouth."

She says, "F*ck!  What did I do with my cigarette?"


I accidentally laughed at The_Sponge who doesn't want to be responsible for his own actions, officer.  Potato?
 
2014-02-18 12:47:09 PM  

James!: The_Sponge: CSB:

My gym bag has multiple uses....the gym (duh), and I occasionally use it to transport handguns to my local range, and use it as my carry-on bag when flying.

I never leave firearms in it once I'm home, but when I'm about to fly somewhere, I double-check it to make sure there isn't any loose ammo inside.

When you check your bag to ensure that their aren't any guns or ammo in it do you feel Obama's boot on your neck?



Nope....I feel him patting me on the butt and saying "good job".
 
2014-02-18 12:47:56 PM  

coeyagi: The_Sponge: coeyagi: I accidentally left my cigarette burning while falling asleep and now my two cats and 3 kids are dead, officer. Mulligan?

A blonde is walking down the street.

A guy says, "Hey lady....there's a tampon in your mouth."

She says, "F*ck!  What did I do with my cigarette?"

I accidentally laughed at The_Sponge who doesn't want to be responsible for his own actions, officer.  Potato?



Heh.
 
2014-02-18 12:48:13 PM  

dittybopper: Trivia Jockey: It includes: knowing where your gun is at all times,

I'm 50 miles away from my guns, and have been for several hours.  I can't guarantee with 100% certainty where they are.  Am I irresponsible?


Then how do you know your 50 miles away from them?
 
2014-02-18 12:48:18 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: dittybopper: I don't think anyone would accuse me of being an "irresponsible knife owner".

False analogy. A gun is not a knife.


In Georgia, the "illegal to carry in this location" state law (16-11-129) prohibits the carry of weapons.  Knives and firearms are both included under the definition of weapon for this law.

So the analogy is good: in the eyes of this law, a knife and gun are the same.  Yet if you have a knife, you can take it back out to your car, have someone come pick it up from you, let it be confiscated, etc, etc.  You are not automatically cuffed and taken to spend the night in the Clayton County Jail.
 
2014-02-18 12:48:28 PM  
I accidentally fell asleep at the commands of the roller coaster ride and now 7 people are dead, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:48:49 PM  

Serious Black: "I would tell you that a lot of people carry a weapon," said state Rep. Alan Powell, a Republican who supports the bill. "It's almost like it's just a second nature to them. And sometimes they forget where they have, you know, they basically forget they've got it in a briefcase or a suitcase."

If you forget where your gun is, you are an irresponsible gun owner. Period.


Now, be fair. A gun is a tool, as the gun fondlers so often tell us. I forget where my tools are all the time. And a tool that I would most likely NEVER EVER use, in my entire lifetime of owning it, would be really easy to lose track of.

/Concealed carry is probably the least useful form of personal protection known to man. It's better than wearing a lightning-rod hat, but not much.
 
2014-02-18 12:49:09 PM  
The problem with gun shills is that they just don't understand that this is the crap that will ultimately give gun grabbers what they want and yet, you defend the irresponsible idiots.
 
2014-02-18 12:49:43 PM  

Trivia Jockey: dittybopper: but what about the inadvertent exceptions?

There are certain things so inherently dangerous that we've placed strict liability on them.  That's so we don't have to try and determine someone's subjective intent.  Guns are one of those things.  There should not be any exceptions for inadvertence.


Exactly.

Also, you can put me in the "there's no way someone inadvertently brings a gun to a farking airport" camp.

What this law does is give people an incentive to try and sneak firearms on airplanes. If they get caught they can say, "oops! my bad" and that's basically that. I can't see how anyone would think this is responsible legislation.
 
2014-02-18 12:50:06 PM  
I accidentally brought a gun to a high school to pick up my kid, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:50:24 PM  

coeyagi: I accidentally fell asleep at the commands of the roller coaster ride and now 7 people are dead, officer.  Mulligan?


Hey not all of these comparisons are fair.  That carnie was actually required to get training before operating that deadly equipment.
 
2014-02-18 12:50:26 PM  

factoryconnection: You have your sh*t together on gun rights, Ditty, but you don't need to take the idiot gun-owner's side just because both of you happen to own guns.  I don't take idiot car-owners' sides in things, nor idiot parents' sides, nor idiot liberals.  Is the group that lives by the philosophy "I'm too preoccupied to have a clue where my gun is" really the team that deserves your support?


Everyone of us is an idiot sometimes.

*EVERY*farkING*ONE*OF*US*.

Even you.

I don't care if you think you are Mr. McCool, never, ever, makes a mistake or forgets something.  You do.  More often than you think.  But that doesn't necessarily make you irresponsible, it makes you *HUMAN*, not a robot.

Approximately 1.8 *MILLION* people fly commercial flights every day in the US.  The TSA seized about 5 guns per day in US airports in 2013.  This in a country where 65% of the people live in areas where it's legal to carry a firearm.

So why are we so set on punishing the 0.0003% of people who make an honest mistake with no ill intent?

Why *NOT* make it so that they can legally check their guns if they inadvertently forgot them in a bag?  Why the urge to punish something like that?
 
2014-02-18 12:50:53 PM  

dittybopper: Trivia Jockey: Rev.K: Nothing to see here folks, just more Responsible Gun OwnershipTM

Because nothing says Responsible Gun OwnershipTM  quite like passing laws to protect negligent gun-owners.


Nothing in this thread could be said better than this.

How about ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE.

The current policy is largely "zero tolerance", with the rare and sane exception being news:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2014-01-29/news/os-sanford-airpo rt -holds-passenger-gun-20140129_1_orlando-international-airport-conceale d-weapon-permit-holders-armed-passenger

Why not just make a "gun check" part of the process?  If you have a gun, and are legally permitted to carry it, why not just provide people who inadvertently carry into an airport security zone a way to store their guns on the premises until they return?

That would accomplish the goal of a "gun free zone" in the passenger terminals and by extension on the aircraft, so what harm would be done?

Really, other than making carrying a gun as legally dicey as you possibly can in as many situations as you possibly can in order to make people shy away from it, what possible opposition can you have to something like that?


Short answer? because that gives all would be highjackers and criminals an "out" if they are caught in the boarding process "oops, meant to check that BRB"  leading to a much higher probability of gun violence in or around airplanes.   Better public policy it to put the onus on people who choose to carry deadly weapons to maintain situational awareness at all times.


I say this as someone who DID forget a deadly weapon in my carry on luggage once and was caught by security.  Now in my case it was a custom forged 9-in wrought iron dagger a blacksmith friend had given me as a present, and I was able to convince the guard it was a "letter opener" (whereupon she re-packed my luggage and sent me on my way-pre 9/11 of course), but had I gotten in trouble i would have been nobody's fault but my own.   I think the penalties for such thing should be pretty mild if was truly an accident and no nefarious intent can be proven (Forfeiture of the weapon and a small fine for a first offense), but there should be a strong societal disincentive for carry weapons in that environment
 
2014-02-18 12:52:12 PM  

ikanreed: coeyagi: I accidentally fell asleep at the commands of the roller coaster ride and now 7 people are dead, officer.  Mulligan?

Hey not all of these comparisons are fair.  That carnie was actually required to get training before operating that deadly equipment.


I "accidentally" didn't get a background check at a gun show because I know I am insane and was looking for a way to murder lots of people quickly, and then murdered lots of people quickly, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:53:17 PM  
I accidentally rolled a huge snowball down the mountain that hit a car, flipped it over and killed its inhabitants, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 12:53:18 PM  

Jocktopus: Stupid arguments are stupid.

People (in general) aren't "forgetting they have a gun."  They simply don't connect "carrying a gun" with "is illegal in the airport."

How many people do you think walk into a courthouse with their cellphone, or a small pocketknife?  Did they "forget they had a cellphone?"  No, they just neglected to make the mental connection between "jury duty" and "no cellphones."


Not only that, the majority of the airport guns seized were in their carry-on luggage, not in a holster on their person.

It's hard to imagine a scenario where you forget you are *WEARING* a gun, but much easier to imagine one where it's in a bag that you use for other purposes, and you forgot or missed it when packing for your trip.
 
2014-02-18 01:03:43 PM  

dittybopper: Trivia Jockey: dittybopper: Because nothing says "Common Sense Gun LawsTM" than sending people to prison for unintentional and inadvertent mistakes.

Forgetting you have a loaded pistol in your pocket is a pretty f*cking big unintentional and inadvertent mistake.  Especially when you go to a high-security area like an airport.

What about in a bag you carry for other purposes (like car trips, etc.)?

Generally, that's what happens, not the one in the pocket, the one in the bag you use for other things besides airline flights.
 
Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm all for laws that disincentivize gun owners from being less than hyper-careful with their guns.

So, you're of the mind that people should be strictly punished when they have no ill intent, merely because they are gun owners.

Are you of the same mind for people who drive cars?  Do you think drivers who exceed the speed limit in school zones should have their driving privileges permanently revoked for the the first offense, and have their car seized, even though it was inadvertent?  After all, it's a farkin' *SCHOOL ZONE*.  They could kill a kid by going 30 MPH instead of 20.

Is that the sort of thing you are generally agreeable with, or is it just because *GUNZ!*?


It's sort of like the people who want to perform Transvaginal ultrasounds and make women look at the monitor before consenting to an abortion
 
2014-02-18 01:03:54 PM  
Well, it looks like I'm gonna need a new pair of snowshoes what with all this threadshiat. Ew.
 
2014-02-18 01:03:56 PM  

Serious Black: dittybopper: inadvertently carry

Much like the "accidental discharge" that I am positive only exists in the realm of unicorns and leprechauns, I don't think inadvertent carrying of a gun exists. We are talking about a tool whose sole purpose is to annihilate anything and everything that the business end is pointed towards. I believe a responsible gun owner should know where their potentially deadly firearms are at all times. If that's too much for you to handle, you shouldn't own a gun.


I can see you've never carried a gun. I had to wear an M9 around for a year when I was in Iraq (a more useless paperweight was never inflicted on anyone; I worked in an office in the Green Zone, so if the hajjis got inside the wire to the point where I had to shoot at them, I was dead, pistol or no). Within a month, you forget you have the thing on. I left mine lying around (unloaded, because the military isn't as stupid as most Armed Citizens) more than once when I took it off to work out.

People need to realize on both sides of this argument that concealed carry pistols are almost NEVER used. It's a piece of really heavy, really stupid jewelry; an anti-gorilla amulet designed to protect against a largely nonexistent threat. Your odds of using it in a situation where no gun would make for a worse outcome are lotteryesque. Heck, most police detectives never pull out their pistols, let alone Armed Citizens. So if you're silly enough to be in the habit of constantly going armed, you're going to quit thinking about it after a few months or years of it never being necessary.

Also, loaded guns are in no way a hazard to other fliers, so freaking out over the "danger" of inadvertently leaving a loaded handgun in your luggage is just that, a freakout. People who want to hijack airplanes or commit other crimes are a problem; idiot wannabes with guns in their carryons have yet to hurt anyone in an airport or on a plane.
 
2014-02-18 01:05:29 PM  
I accidentally stabbed someone with a ski pole while going down a black diamond in Vail, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 01:05:30 PM  
Taking guns to airports when taking shampoo on board is banned. And people are okay with this?img.fark.net
 
2014-02-18 01:06:05 PM  
I accidentally defrauded the IRS by claiming losses, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 01:06:13 PM  

coeyagi: I accidentally drank too much alcohol and got behind a wheel and now Mary Jane Rottencrotch is dead, officer. Mulligan?


coeyagi: I accidentally addressed the reimbursement check to me when another volunteer spent the funds and now I have $500 more than I should, officer. Mulligan?


coeyagi: I accidentally ran over a girl crossing the street because I was texting, officer. Mulligan?


coeyagi: I accidentally violated the age of consent because I didn't check the 17 year old girl's age before porking her, officer. Mulligan?


coeyagi: I accidentally dropped a canister of cyanide outside the lab and now I am going to the funeral of a colleague, officer. Mulligan?


Am I the only one that really wants to meet this Officer Mulligan fellow?
 
2014-02-18 01:06:16 PM  

Serious Black: dittybopper: inadvertently carry

Much like the "accidental discharge" that I am positive only exists in the realm of unicorns and leprechauns, I don't think inadvertent carrying of a gun exists. We are talking about a tool whose sole purpose is to annihilate anything and everything that the business end is pointed towards. I believe a responsible gun owner should know where their potentially deadly firearms are at all times. If that's too much for you to handle, you shouldn't own a gun.


I had an 'accidental discharge' once.

/OK, more than once
//That was the end of those dates
 
2014-02-18 01:06:31 PM  
I guess i can sort of see his point, after a while it just becomes routine, leaving the house; keys, wallet, phone, gun. I have a small leatherman on my keychain all the time that i never really give any thought to...

EXCEPT WHEN IM GOING TO THE farkING AIRPORT.


I dont know about anyone else, but i generally try to avoid doing things that have the potential to get me anally fisted by a high school drop out.
 
2014-02-18 01:06:42 PM  
I accidentally shot jizz out the car window while getting head from my girlfriend, it hit a motorcycler in the eye and now he's blind, officer. Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 01:06:45 PM  

dittybopper: To *ME*, responsible gun ownership is basically following the four rules of safe gun use, and making sure that unauthorized people like criminals don't get access, and that children only have well-supervised age-appropriate access, that sort of thing.  That's responsible gun ownership.


And a fifth rule of "Never take your weapon somewhere it is unlawful to possess it" is somehow unreasonable?


I've carried a leatherman in my pocket as a matter of course from freshman year in high school to present with the sole exception of basic training and the first four weeks of AIT.  It comes with me to work, on dates with my wife, babysitting for friends, to the movie theatre, to everywhere I go.

EXCEPT when I am getting on an airplane or entering another area where it is expressly forbidden.  The night before it goes into my checked luggage if I am taking a bag.  If I am not checking luggage it goes on my nightstand.  On arrival as soon as I get my checked bag if I'm exiting the airport it goes directly into my pocket again.  I have never had it confiscated at an airport, and I fly fairly frequently (On average around once a month between business and pleasure over the last few years, less often before that).

I recognize as a responsible knife owner that it is not allowed past that point, and that it should not be on my person as I pass that point.  I recognize as a responsible knife owner that I am carrying something that can be used as a weapon even though it is pretty expressly a tool.  I recognize that as such there are some places where it won't be allowed in and that I may be barred from entry or have it confiscated if I try to carry it in.


I have zero sympathy for the idea of forgetting that you are carrying a weapon.

I have zero sympathy for the idea of entering a airport security checkpoint without complete knowledge of everything on your person and in your carry on luggage.

If you can't tell me whether or not you are currently in possession of a deadly weapon, you shouldn't be carrying them.  Especially in areas where it is so expressly well known that it is unlawful to do so.


If I can remember to put my knife in checked luggage or leave it at home without the motivation of being charged with a crime for failing to do so, you can leave your weapon at home or check it properly.  Zero sympathy.


/also keeps a checklist of times the leatherman would have been useful but wasn't present due to lack of checked luggage
//current record is 4 hours from time of landing to realizing having it would have been useful
 
2014-02-18 01:07:15 PM  

Serious Black: "I would tell you that a lot of people carry a weapon," said state Rep. Alan Powell, a Republican who supports the bill. "It's almost like it's just a second nature to them. And sometimes they forget where they have, you know, they basically forget they've got it in a briefcase or a suitcase."

If you forget where your gun is, you are an irresponsible gun owner. Period.


Yup. Just wanted to make sure someone had said this. And seconded it. And continued to second it. And said "this" a few times.

Regardless of what laws anyone wants to pass, it's pretty stupid to say that the basis is that it's normal to forget you're carrying a weapon around with you.
 
2014-02-18 01:07:18 PM  
I accidentally outted a CIA operative via Robert Novak, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 01:07:28 PM  

mbillips: People who want to hijack airplanes or commit other crimes are a problem; idiot wannabes with guns in their carryons have yet to hurt anyone in an airport or on a plane.


How do you distinguish the two?
 
2014-02-18 01:08:02 PM  
I accidentally solicited for sex in a men's bathroom in the Minneapolis airport, officer.  Mulligan?
 
2014-02-18 01:08:13 PM  

BunkoSquad: dittybopper: What about in a bag you carry for other purposes (like car trips, etc.)?

Generally, that's what happens, not the one in the pocket, the one in the bag you use for other things besides airline flights.

I make sure there's no "too big bottle of contact lens solution" in that bag before I go to the airport, because I'm aware enough to know THAT I AM GOING TO THE AIRPORT


FWIW, in the US you can just take contact solution (or pretty much any liquid) out of your bag declare it "medicinal".  While normally a threat to national security, speaking the magical "medicinal" word to the TSA renders liquids in excess of 3.4 oz safe.

/thread-jack
 
2014-02-18 01:08:24 PM  

Jocktopus: Stupid arguments are stupid.

People (in general) aren't "forgetting they have a gun."   They simply don't connect "carrying a gun" with "is illegal in the airport."

How many people do you think walk into a courthouse with their cellphone, or a small pocketknife?  Did they "forget they had a cellphone?"  No, they just neglected to make the mental connection between "jury duty" and "no cellphones."



LOLWUT?

When was the last time carrying a gun onto a plane was legal?  1971?
 
2014-02-18 01:08:39 PM  
I accidentally solicited for prostitutes before getting a round of applause for my return on the floor of Congress, officer. Mulligan?
 
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