If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Network World)   Turns out IPv4 has gone away just like fax machines   (networkworld.com) divider line 39
    More: Interesting, Internet Society, hampers, United States and Canada, fax machines, IP addresses, networking hardware, Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, Internet Protocol  
•       •       •

3734 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Feb 2014 at 9:39 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-18 09:30:20 AM  
Yes, we'll NEVER adapt. It'll be complete, total anarchy. *Yawn*
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-02-18 09:35:42 AM  
My wired connection is Verizon, and is 100% pure IPv4 the way Cerf intended.

I noticed my phone shows an IPv6 address, but obviously it's not relevant when I'm connected via 802.11 to an IPv4 only access point.  I wonder what my odds are of getting an end to end v6 connection when I'm using the phone network.
 
2014-02-18 09:50:34 AM  
This is the kind of 'in the weeds' technical shiat that no end user needs any knowledge of.

If you need to care then likely you are breaking the ToS of your residential internet service.
 
2014-02-18 10:10:31 AM  
This is not a repeat from the last twenty years.

/non-crisis is non-crisis
 
2014-02-18 10:12:17 AM  
I was glad to see Comcast rolled out IPv6 in my area. It gives me a little lead time to harden home my network. Consumer grade routers either come in 2 states regarding IPv6 firewalls: non-existent or completely locked down. Fortunately I don't forward ports (save for UPnP) and rely on OpenVPN when I need to access services at home remotely.

If you're running pfsense you're in good shape because the default config is effectively "deny-all" when it comes to IPv6.

/Start at the end point, then work back and harden those workstations
 
2014-02-18 10:23:56 AM  

MightyPez: I was glad to see Comcast rolled out IPv6 in my area. It gives me a little lead time to harden home my network. Consumer grade routers either come in 2 states regarding IPv6 firewalls: non-existent or completely locked down. Fortunately I don't forward ports (save for UPnP) and rely on OpenVPN when I need to access services at home remotely.

If you're running pfsense you're in good shape because the default config is effectively "deny-all" when it comes to IPv6.

/Start at the end point, then work back and harden those workstations


Ummmm, what he said.
 
2014-02-18 10:27:12 AM  
If only IPv4 could go away the same way fax machines did:

media.mlive.com
 
2014-02-18 10:29:49 AM  
Did somebody finally let them know about NAT?
 
2014-02-18 10:35:34 AM  
subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa  subby drtfa subby drtfa  subby drtfa
 
2014-02-18 10:37:49 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: This is the kind of 'in the weeds' technical shiat that no end user needs any knowledge of.

If you need to care then likely you are breaking the ToS of your residential internet service.


Pretty much, and those of us that work with networking already know about it and have planned for it on our ends.
 
2014-02-18 11:07:02 AM  
/got NATting
 
2014-02-18 11:41:10 AM  

forteblast: If only IPv4 could go away the same way fax machines did:
img.fark.net


That was a printer.

img.fark.net

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER

But still a classic scene.
 
2014-02-18 11:44:24 AM  
Some time in the next few years, someone will come up with a good reason to need IP6 and users will stampede towards it.  And the change will be quite swift.  And then a lot of people will realize that without NAT, they have no effective firewall set up and they get slammed by remote exploits all over the place.  And a new wave of network security will take over again.  This has all happened before and it will happen again.  But... my $1500 router here at work doesn't support IP6, and I've got no motivation right now to change that.
 
2014-02-18 11:57:42 AM  

ReverendJasen: Did somebody finally let them know about NAT?

 Yeah, I wonder how the IETF could have forgotten about that.  I wonder if maybe it doesn't magically solve the problem for numerous reasons that were definitely contained in TFA?
 
2014-02-18 11:59:38 AM  
So in other qords its big in Japan.
 
2014-02-18 12:19:42 PM  
Speaking of fax machines.

I went to submit a receipt for my FSA this morning.  I had two choices.

Online Submission or Fax Submission.

With online submission you print out a PDF, fill it in, scan it, scan your receipt, then upload the scans.

With Fax submission, there is an online form you fill out, you then print it out, sign it, then fax it and your receipt.
 
2014-02-18 12:36:55 PM  
After all this is done it would be a great graduate thesis for someone to see why it has taken so long

$

I can haz PhD now?
 
2014-02-18 12:39:47 PM  
We just bought a new FAX machine here at work. Should we have not done that?
 
2014-02-18 12:43:24 PM  

Pick: We just bought a new FAX machine here at work. Should we have not done that?


Working for a freight brokering/warehousing business a few years ago we had to keep plenty of fax machines and dot matrix printers around. The FAA and other branches of the fed would only accept those two forms of paperwork. It's maddening when we were doing digital documents for everything else.
 
2014-02-18 12:45:41 PM  
Side note: if you have a Windows 8.1 PC that won't go to sleep no matter the settings, turn IPv6 off. There's something wonky in the OS that Microsoft needs to fix.

http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2013/11/windows-8-1-wont-sleep/#.UwOcJf ld Vc4
 
2014-02-18 12:46:31 PM  
There is a fax machine somewhere in my office. I can ping it.
 
2014-02-18 01:16:26 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: After all this is done it would be a great graduate thesis for someone to see why it has taken so long

$

I can haz PhD now?


I did my Master's thesis on it.
 
2014-02-18 01:57:06 PM  

MightyPez: Pick: We just bought a new FAX machine here at work. Should we have not done that?

Working for a freight brokering/warehousing business a few years ago we had to keep plenty of fax machines and dot matrix printers around. The FAA and other branches of the fed would only accept those two forms of paperwork. It's maddening when we were doing digital documents for everything else.


FAA requires DOT matrix (like what they still use at the podiums at the gates), because they can use a carbon system to make exact duplicates as proof of record
 
2014-02-18 02:14:52 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: This is the kind of 'in the weeds' technical shiat that no end user needs any knowledge of.

If you need to care then likely you are breaking the ToS of your residential internet service.


Residential? Boyo, I haven't had residential internet for over a decade.
 
2014-02-18 02:40:44 PM  

China White Tea: Yeah, I wonder how the IETF could have forgotten about that. I wonder if maybe it doesn't magically solve the problem


When one of their examples was "even refrigerators have IPs now!" it makes you wonder.  Home users with a houseful of IP-enabled appliances are not using up any more routable IPs, as they're almost always NAT, and are not adding to the problem.
 
2014-02-18 02:48:30 PM  
That crisis would be exacerbated by the skyrocketing demand for IP addresses due to a variety of factors: the Internet of Things (refrigerators needing their own IP address); wearables (watches and glasses demanding connectivity); BYOD (the explosion of mobile devices allowed to connect to the corporate network); and the increase in smartphone use in developing countries.

You'd think a rag calling itself "Network World" would be aware of private networks and NAT, but, here we are...
 
2014-02-18 02:58:25 PM  

gingerjet: This is not a repeat from the last twenty years.

/non-crisis is non-crisis


csb:
In 2001, I was a defense contractor building up the new USNorthCom building's multiple LAN connections. The bid said it had to be compliant with IPV6.

What a friggin headache. I'm not even an IT guy. Got it done tho. Definately wasn't paid enough.
 
2014-02-18 02:59:10 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: This is the kind of 'in the weeds' technical shiat that no end user needs any knowledge of.

If you need to care then likely you are breaking the ToS of your residential internet service.


End users who don't care also won't be reading NETWORK WORLD.

FTA cited "the Internet of Things (refrigerators needing their own IP address); wearables (watches and glasses demanding connectivity); BYOD (the explosion of mobile devices allowed to connect to the corporate network); and the increase in smartphone use in developing countries" as a reason for the depletion of IPv4 addresses.  Are most of those devices NATed anyway?  And if not, shouldn't they be?

I think NAT is perfectly fine for devices like that.  In fact, I prefer that my phone, fridge and coffee maker not have a routeable IP and not be directly reachable from the Internet.  I have a headless netbook in a closet at home that's on all the time and has sshd running with port 22 forwarded through the router so I can log in from the outside and have full access to my home network (net security cams, desktop comp, etc).  That netbook is the only system that is reachable from the outside and only on port 22.  That system is being attacked on port 22 pretty much continuously.  Before I set up scripts to block IPs based on failed login attempts, some attackers would spend many hours attempting brute-force entry via SSH.  Others appeared to attempt access via known usernames and (apparently) known common passwords.

Again, that computer is being attacked all the time.  Do I really want all of my Internet enabled Things who's ports and protocols are lock controlled by me to be directly routeable on the 'net?  No.  Before anyone tells me "but your firewall/router can be configured to ..." let me remind them that mobile devices are kind of inherently going to be connected to someone else's network over which I have no control.
 
2014-02-18 03:01:41 PM  

ReverendJasen: When one of their examples was "even refrigerators have IPs now!" it makes you wonder. Home users with a houseful of IP-enabled appliances are not using up any more routable IPs, as they're almost always NAT, and are not adding to the problem.


As are most enterprises.  I have over 1,400 devices at my location and none of them have routable IP's.  I have no clue how many thousands of devices there are overall in the enterprise, but would bank that there are maybe a dozen routable IP's.  Not that it wouldn't do us good to go IPv6 in house.  But we're not causing the problem.

At my house I've got 2 desktops, 3 laptops, 4 tablets, 3 smart phones, DVR, Wii, and a PS3.  And none of them are routable.
 
2014-02-18 03:13:12 PM  
To "tl;dr" my earlier post:

Mobile and most "Internet of Things" shouldn't have have a routable IP because the user can't control the IP security of either the device or the network service provider.
 
2014-02-18 03:47:02 PM  
I got a 169 IP address everywhere I go so I don't need IPv6
 
2014-02-18 04:05:56 PM  
When I was in the military there was this "prank" that would sometimes be played on new enlisted.  They'd be told they needed to go see Sergeant So-and-So to get some 'PU55Y' cable (in case that gets curse-filtered, that's 'P U 5 5 Y').  Someone would write the name of it down on a piece of paper and inevitably they'd go to get the cable and the person they were told to see would have no idea what they were talking about.  Then they'd show the note with 'pussy' written on it and good times would be had by all.

Still not sure what was actually funny about that.
 
2014-02-18 04:06:56 PM  
Huh, I guess 'pussy' isn't even filtered.  I'd assumed it would be.  'Pussy' is at least as bad as 'shiat,' right?
 
2014-02-18 04:07:37 PM  

MightyPez: I was glad to see Comcast rolled out IPv6 in my area. It gives me a little lead time to harden home my network. Consumer grade routers either come in 2 states regarding IPv6 firewalls: non-existent or completely locked down. Fortunately I don't forward ports (save for UPnP) and rely on OpenVPN when I need to access services at home remotely.

If you're running pfsense you're in good shape because the default config is effectively "deny-all" when it comes to IPv6.

/Start at the end point, then work back and harden those workstations


The pfsense implementation is the only one that makes sense if you for some reason aren't doing NAT.  Just because each device may have an external IP address doesn't mean those connections should bypass the router's firewall and port filtering rules.  The fact that most consumer grade IPv6-capable routers operate like that is alarming to say the least.
 
2014-02-18 04:44:48 PM  
LZeitgeist:

But still a classic scene.

Yes and either he or the IT support people were morons.  Either his document template OR his default printer settings are set to A4.  If you tell something of the age of the movie it's in America it will usually default to Letter.

Basically the character was a moron who didn't know how to change the default settings and/or too inept to ask someone more knowledgeable for help.  Worst case, he fiddled with something he didn't understand and was paying the price.

So whilst it's a really good scene it is very reminiscent of the chimps beating on things with bones in 2001.
 
2014-02-18 04:47:20 PM  

JesusJuice: Still not sure what was actually funny about that.


In my workshop is was self amalgamating tape.  It was funny until one day someone pulled a roll of it out of their kit and handed it over.

/Yep, self amalgamating tape is a thing these days.
 
2014-02-18 06:50:08 PM  

JesusJuice: When I was in the military there was this "prank" that would sometimes be played on new enlisted.  They'd be told they needed to go see Sergeant So-and-So to get some 'PU55Y' cable (in case that gets curse-filtered, that's 'P U 5 5 Y').  Someone would write the name of it down on a piece of paper and inevitably they'd go to get the cable and the person they were told to see would have no idea what they were talking about.  Then they'd show the note with 'pussy' written on it and good times would be had by all.

Still not sure what was actually funny about that.


In the Navy version of the joke, they would eventually find someone who had the non-existent item, but they couldn't get it, because they didn't have a properly filled out Form ID-10-T.   Then they would start wandering around trying to find the right form.
 
2014-02-19 12:16:24 AM  

NewWorldDan: ut... my $1500 router here at work doesn't support IP6, and I've got no motivation right now to change that.


$1500 in today's money? What $1500 router doesn't run dual IPv4 and IPv6 stacks?
 
2014-02-19 01:21:56 AM  
Is the IPv4 non-crisis the same as the Y2K non-crisis? That one went out with a snore, too.

I'm happy to say that my company finally took the fax number off our business cards, though we still have the machine sitting there. I don't understand who really needs that technology. I think lawyers believe it is somehow more secure/legal than scan/email?

I still fondly remember when one of my old companies was finally convinced they didn't need to buy computers with 3-1/2" Floppy drives. Finally realizing a CD burner could hold hundreds of the 1.44 MB disks, and that the reliability of 3-1/2" magnetic  disks was, like, zero.
 
Displayed 39 of 39 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report