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(Huffington Post)   And the latest, soon-to-be-disproven theory on the Shroud of Turin's manufacture is that an earthquake 2,000 years ago exposed a dead body wrapped in a shroud to a vein of uranium ore, and made an ancient x-ray   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 169
    More: Unlikely, Shroud of Turin, earthquakes, uranium deposits, neutron emission, University of Padua, Dante, Geochemistry, Malaga  
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4967 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2014 at 10:22 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-16 10:25:16 PM
Well, alrighty then! What more proof do we need?
 
2014-02-16 10:25:37 PM
And brought it back to life.
 
2014-02-16 10:25:38 PM
If this can happen, then a bunch of carbon-14 dating at earthquake sites should be all messed up. Nobody has noticed signs of this. Well, here's another excuse to check again.
 
2014-02-16 10:27:36 PM
i89.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-16 10:28:12 PM
25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.
 
2014-02-16 10:30:00 PM
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD DO NOT GREENLIGHT AUTOPLAY VIDEOS!
 
2014-02-16 10:31:56 PM
Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.

// There is still some scientific interest in the shroud... but it's related to how the image was manufactured, not whether or not it's actually Jesus.  That was answered definitively over three decades ago, with a "no".
// And actually the shroud was declared fake by the church's investigation soon after its recovery, they just reversed the position when they realized people were pilgrimaging to it regardless.
 
2014-02-16 10:36:11 PM

Jim_Callahan: Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.


Oh, no no!

You see, there was an invisible repair job done by craftsmen monks in the 14th century, and the swatch just happened to be taken from that exquisitely performed repair site instead of the original cloth itself.

Yes. They actually claimed that in order to discredit the carbon dating results.
 
2014-02-16 10:36:41 PM
First obstacle: the fabric is a weave made with a type of loom that didn't exist until the 11th century. Explain that before moving on to anything more elaborate. It's like the Chuck Taylor's in Ben Hur.
 
2014-02-16 10:38:25 PM
why do believers seek scientific justification to events they consider divine? If a natural process caused something to occur, is it really miraculous?
 
2014-02-16 10:41:28 PM
Oh, oh, oh, I'm hoping a certain fan of the Urantia Book has the evening free! This could be epic!
 
2014-02-16 10:42:00 PM
Spoiler: Churches lie about stuff to convince you to surrender money and power.
 
2014-02-16 10:44:27 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Jim_Callahan: Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.

Oh, no no!

You see, there was an invisible repair job done by craftsmen monks in the 14th century, and the swatch just happened to be taken from that exquisitely performed repair site instead of the original cloth itself.

Yes. They actually claimed that in order to discredit the carbon dating results.


Not only that but the shroud transformed Jesus (who was probably short and, well, Jewish looking) into Odin!
 
2014-02-16 10:45:38 PM

brandent: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD DO NOT GREENLIGHT AUTOPLAY VIDEOS!


You'd think if we get warnings for slide shows, we'd get warnings for auto play videos.


/here come the people with script blockers
 
2014-02-16 10:46:51 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Spoiler: Churches lie about stuff to convince you to surrender money and power.


Again, to be fair, the Vatican's investigation also initially concluded that the shroud was fake in the 1400s.  They kept the damned thing essentially because the pilgrims insisted and they didn't want to retroactively invalidate a bunch of the faithful's expensive pilgrimages.

I'm not actually sure when they officially reversed their position and went back to calling it genuine, but it was fairly clear that the church wasn't actually fooled for all that long after they bought it.
 
2014-02-16 10:48:01 PM
I don't feel the need to debunk "Hey, we've got a magic sheet over here!" claims. No one has proven that it is magic yet.
 
2014-02-16 10:48:59 PM
It belongs in a museum.
 
2014-02-16 10:50:37 PM
Sadly, I think the Urantia book's explanation that it was magic photons is more likely to be accurate.


/that is, both are steaming bs.
 
2014-02-16 10:52:28 PM

Jim_Callahan: Lenny_da_Hog: Spoiler: Churches lie about stuff to convince you to surrender money and power.

Again, to be fair, the Vatican's investigation also initially concluded that the shroud was fake in the 1400s.  They kept the damned thing essentially because the pilgrims insisted and they didn't want to retroactively invalidate a bunch of the faithful's expensive pilgrimages.

I'm not actually sure when they officially reversed their position and went back to calling it genuine, but it was fairly clear that the church wasn't actually fooled for all that long after they bought it.


Which means the church is lying about stuff to convince you to surrender money and power.
 
2014-02-16 10:53:17 PM

HighZoolander: Sadly, I think the Urantia book's explanation that it was magic photons is more likely to be accurate.


/that is, both are steaming bs.


Well, according to quantum mechanics....
 
2014-02-16 10:57:32 PM
www.stevedennie.com

There's something... you have something on your chin.
 
2014-02-16 10:57:41 PM
I thought the shroud was from one of the leaders of the Templars that was tortured by the Inquisition.
 
2014-02-16 11:01:30 PM

TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.


At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.
 
2014-02-16 11:03:10 PM
Italian science has been in slow decline for centuries.
 
2014-02-16 11:03:29 PM

mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.


The question is what % are really that stupid and what % are just trolling.

They see me trollin' and they be hatin'
 
2014-02-16 11:04:20 PM

brandent: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD DO NOT GREENLIGHT AUTOPLAY VIDEOS!


Stop browsing the Internet at work!

As for this theory, it seems like a comic book origin story-level coincidence.  "Scientists" are probably concocting these theories while sitting in a basement stoned out of their minds.
 
2014-02-16 11:06:10 PM

mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.


They both revolve around the system's center of mass. Granted, that center of mass is within the radius of the sun and constantly under the influence from other heavier stuff in the solar system.

Now, how many people think there is no gravity on the moon?
 
2014-02-16 11:08:06 PM

UsikFark: mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.

They both revolve around the system's center of mass. Granted, that center of mass is within the radius of the sun and constantly under the influence from other heavier stuff in the solar system.

Now, how many people think there is no gravity on the moon?


Of course there's gravity on the moon. It would have been a lot harder to fake the moon landings if we had to replicate a zero-g environment.
 
2014-02-16 11:09:02 PM

Oldiron_79: mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.

The question is what % are really that stupid and what % are just trolling.

They see me trollin' and they be hatin'


And how many are doing something sarcastic like deciding to anchor their coordinate system to the earth's surface so that the answer is actually that the sun goes around the earth (roughly), rather than giving an intentionally incorrect answer.

Or going with "none of the above" since technically the Earth and Sun both orbit around the binary system's common center of mass as perturbed by the other large bodies in system proximity.

//The fact that it's a stupid coordinate system doesn't mean it doesn't work!
 
2014-02-16 11:09:09 PM

Resident Muslim: /here come the people with script blockers


Reporting as requested sir!
 
2014-02-16 11:09:43 PM
Neutron emissions?


evangelineholland.com
 
2014-02-16 11:11:08 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: UsikFark: mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.

They both revolve around the system's center of mass. Granted, that center of mass is within the radius of the sun and constantly under the influence from other heavier stuff in the solar system.

Now, how many people think there is no gravity on the moon?

Of course there's gravity on the moon. It would have been a lot harder to fake the moon landings if we had to replicate a zero-g environment.


That's why they filmed it on mars.
 
2014-02-16 11:11:38 PM
www.theomag.com
 
2014-02-16 11:13:39 PM

Vampire Lake: Lenny_da_Hog: Jim_Callahan: Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.

Oh, no no!

You see, there was an invisible repair job done by craftsmen monks in the 14th century, and the swatch just happened to be taken from that exquisitely performed repair site instead of the original cloth itself.

Yes. They actually claimed that in order to discredit the carbon dating results.

Not only that but the shroud transformed Jesus (who was probably short and, well, Jewish looking) into Odin!


commonsenseatheism.com
 
2014-02-16 11:13:42 PM
I thought the Christian answer to anything that could be scientifically proven to contradict the Bible is considered to be "God's test of your faith"?  Like dinosaur bones.
 
2014-02-16 11:15:32 PM

Jim_Callahan: Oldiron_79: mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.

The question is what % are really that stupid and what % are just trolling.

They see me trollin' and they be hatin'

And how many are doing something sarcastic like deciding to anchor their coordinate system to the earth's surface so that the answer is actually that the sun goes around the earth (roughly), rather than giving an intentionally incorrect answer.

Or going with "none of the above" since technically the Earth and Sun both orbit around the binary system's common center of mass as perturbed by the other large bodies in system proximity.

//The fact that it's a stupid coordinate system doesn't mean it doesn't work!


Well anyhow if I had some Rick Romero type giving me a survey about the solar system Id be likely to give a Turtles all the way down type response just for the look on the guy's face.
 
2014-02-16 11:17:02 PM
Hmm. I'm no x-ray tech but I'm fairly certainly they show bones and not facial features like mustaches...
 
2014-02-16 11:18:24 PM
You mean they can market the shroud to make money?
www.cmdln.org
 
2014-02-16 11:22:48 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Jim_Callahan: Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.

Oh, no no!

You see, there was an invisible repair job done by craftsmen monks in the 14th century, and the swatch just happened to be taken from that exquisitely performed repair site instead of the original cloth itself.

Yes. They actually claimed that in order to discredit the carbon dating results.


Reweaving is a thing, and can be done very well, so as to be entirely invisible, replicating the exact fineness and weave. Useful thing to know if you ever get a small hole in a nice suit, by the way. Somewhat pricey these days, but it can be worth it. I do assume it would be done very carefully by monks who thought they were taking care of something that touched Jesus. If the sample was taken from a small, unimportant corner, as it was, and if that corner had been repaired, the sample would indeed be contaminated- that's actually a plausible argument, not one you can dismiss out of hand. You need to look at records to see if there's any truth to the repair claim (presumably there was a record, but it's possible it would be lost). Ideally, you'd take a sample from a different site, from the middle somewhere would be best. That's not likely to happen, but you do need further evidence before you dismiss that one. We're not likely to get that sample, however.

Is it a fake? Probably. But we really can't make definitive claims without more data.
 
2014-02-16 11:22:51 PM

99.998er: You mean they can market the shroud to make money?
[www.cmdln.org image 300x300]


Shroud wow!
 
2014-02-16 11:24:30 PM
I could've sworn someone already gave a convincing demonstration of how to make a replica shroud using technology available at the time. No?
 
2014-02-16 11:24:41 PM
Step away from that Dead-guy-on-a-stick you've been licking.
It's a farce to fleece you of your goods.
Like any religion, it's a gimmick designed to take you to the cleaners.
Its Edjumakashun 1.0
A deal you make with a debbel.

Or, just keep licking that Dead-guy-on-a-stick.

Worship that  that Dead-guy-on-a-stick

Suck  that Dead-guy-on-a-stick off.

put your money in the hands of the con men.
 
2014-02-16 11:26:09 PM

Jim_Callahan: Um, the shroud of Turin was RC-dated by several different, independent labs and they all agreed that it dates from the 14th century, with a give or take of about 4 decades.

So... any theory that relies on something happening to it 2000 years ago is going to have kind of an uphill battle, since they're claiming that cloth can be painted 1300 years before it was woven.

// There is still some scientific interest in the shroud... but it's related to how the image was manufactured, not whether or not it's actually Jesus.  That was answered definitively over three decades ago, with a "no".
// And actually the shroud was declared fake by the church's investigation soon after its recovery, they just reversed the position when they realized people were pilgrimaging to it regardless.


I know I'm going to get blasted with the mistaken belief that it is real (which it isn't) but I thought I would actually try to explain the 'hypothesis' in the article.  The article does not explain it.  It was carbon dated to the 14th century.  That relies on the proportion of carbon 14 in the sample.  Stable carbon is carbon 12.  carbon 14 has 2 more neutrons than carbon 12.  One can tell how long something has been dead due to the half life of carbon 14.  i.e. carbon 14 decays and no longer is carbon after the radioactive decay.  So by claiming that the shroud was bombarded with neutrons 2000 years ago it is an assertion that the 'false' dating was caused by an artificial change in the concentration of carbon 14.  i.e. 2000 years ago some of the carbon 12 absorbed neutrons to become carbon 14 and thereby making an 'unnatural' proportion of carbon 14 so that it throws the dating off to make the scientists think it is from 1400 instead of 2000 years ago.

Far fetched obviously.  You'd think the article could at least try to explain the central 'hypothesis' being proposed though.
 
2014-02-16 11:32:02 PM
Well, that proves it. The Shroud of Turn is carbon-dated to the 1300s. The Shroud of Turin is a photograph made by crushing uranium bearing rock.

Ergo, the Shroud of Turin was made by the only man with the scientific and artistic credentials to invent photography several centuries before Daumier or other pioneers.

Leonardo da Vinci did it, in the 1400s. The dating is a century or two off--the wrong way!

If you have any other mysteries for the Great Brantgoose to solve, let me know, but I'm going to have to get back to you after I take my annual bath.
 
2014-02-16 11:32:42 PM
g-ecx.images-amazon.com

So far, I like their theory the best.  It's not Jesus, but Volkringer image of Jacques de Molay.
 
2014-02-16 11:33:59 PM
I'm just kidding. It must have been some alchemist or other. The Shroud of Turin already existed in the 1300s and many people were already saying it was a fake to boost the fame and fortunes of the Royal Family of Piedmont. I'm talking a bishop here, not scientists, of course. God told him it was a fake.
 
2014-02-16 11:35:31 PM

brantgoose: Well, that proves it. The Shroud of Turn is carbon-dated to the 1300s. The Shroud of Turin is a photograph made by crushing uranium bearing rock.

Ergo, the Shroud of Turin was made by the only man with the scientific and artistic credentials to invent photography several centuries before Daumier or other pioneers.

Leonardo da Vinci did it, in the 1400s. The dating is a century or two off--the wrong way!

If you have any other mysteries for the Great Brantgoose to solve, let me know, but I'm going to have to get back to you after I take my annual bath.


No it was legitimate from 33AD then some guy in a delorean took it to the year 1355 for some reason throwing off its carbon dating.
 
2014-02-16 11:35:38 PM

onyxruby: Hmm. I'm no x-ray tech but I'm fairly certainly they show bones and not facial features like mustaches...



This ^^^
 
2014-02-16 11:37:16 PM

brandent: I know I'm going to get blasted with the mistaken belief that it is real (which it isn't) but I thought I would actually try to explain the 'hypothesis' in the article.  The article does not explain it.  It was carbon dated to the 14th century.  That relies on the proportion of carbon 14 in the sample.  Stable carbon is carbon 12.  carbon 14 has 2 more neutrons than carbon 12.  One can tell how long something has been dead due to the half life of carbon 14.  i.e. carbon 14 decays and no longer is carbon after the radioactive decay.  So by claiming that the shroud was bombarded with neutrons 2000 years ago it is an assertion that the 'false' dating was caused by an artificial change in the concentration of carbon 14.  i.e. 2000 years ago some of the carbon 12 absorbed neutrons to become carbon 14 and thereby making an 'unnatural' proportion of carbon 14 so that it throws the dating off to make the scientists think it is from 1400 instead of 2000 years ago.

Far fetched obviously.  You'd think the article could at least try to explain the central 'hypothesis' being proposed though.


Thanks for that.  I was familiar with the old news that it'd been carbon-dated to the 14th century, but TFA makes no mention of that anywhere, so I was completely confused.

Your comment at least explains what the article is trying to claim, although it seems like complete BS.
 
2014-02-16 11:38:53 PM

UsikFark: mjbok: TheBitterest: 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the Earth. The Shroud shouldn't be this hard of a sell.

At first I found that statistic hard to believe.  As it turns out, it is true.  The little fact that you're omitting is 34% of Europeans do.

They both revolve around the system's center of mass. Granted, that center of mass is within the radius of the sun and constantly under the influence from other heavier stuff in the solar system.

Now, how many people think there is no gravity on the moon?


The problem is that the 25% of Americans who think the sun revolves around the Earth are not thinking of the scientific explanation that both are revolving around the solar system's center of mass. At least 24.95% of them are thinking that the Earth is in the middle and the sun rises and sets in a circle around it. And the other. 05% are thinking that there's a big switch in the back that turns it off at night and on in the morning.
 
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