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(NYPost)   Everything we know about Kitty Genovese is wrong   (nypost.com) divider line 67
    More: Interesting, Kitty Genovese, Kew Gardens  
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11690 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2014 at 6:39 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



67 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-16 04:58:41 PM
Great.  Now Harlan's got something else to be pissed off about.
 
2014-02-16 06:02:51 PM
This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.
 
2014-02-16 06:05:25 PM
FTA: "...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

I see that journalism hasn't changed at all in 50 years.
 
2014-02-16 06:11:35 PM
Was she raped and killed?

Then I at least know something correct about her.
 
2014-02-16 06:27:03 PM

DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.


Not in NYC if you're not connected.
 
2014-02-16 06:31:16 PM
♫ Oh, look outside the window
There's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes
And now she's being stabbed

Maybe we should call the cops
And try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun
I'd hate to blow the game

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends ♫

/and this, children, is how pop culture perpetuates urban myth
 
2014-02-16 06:42:05 PM

DrPainMD: FTA: "...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

I see that journalism hasn't changed at all in 50 years.


Some other things haven't changed since then, either.


The story made the Genovese murder front-page news around the world. People began wondering aloud how society had fallen so far, and letters to the editors at various newspapers blamed everything from television to the "women's-lib movement."
 
2014-02-16 06:45:02 PM
there was NO WAY to summarize that story?
FFS

NO WAY to layout the list of OLD version vs NEW version?
FFS, what a waste of brain cells

and now they have to change everything that they taught us in psych 101 ??

HAHAH
 
2014-02-16 06:46:20 PM

nmrsnr: Was she raped and killed?

Then I at least know something correct about her.


Yes, but was in 1990.
 
2014-02-16 06:49:17 PM
So, it was wrong, but not wrong enough to change the essential message of the original story.

Gotcha.
 
2014-02-16 06:49:51 PM
Every couple of years, there's another "debunking" story.

CSB time

I used to live on Austin Street, not far from where this happened.
 
2014-02-16 06:53:52 PM
Guy makes a lot of assumptions based on a police report.  Writes book.  Gets NYPost to shill for him.
 
2014-02-16 06:56:13 PM
Farking new yorkers.
 
2014-02-16 06:56:15 PM

fusillade762: DrPainMD: FTA: "...the real thoughtlessness came from a police commissioner who lazily passed a falsehood to a journalist, and a media that fell so deeply in love with a story that it couldn't be bothered to determine whether it was true."

I see that journalism hasn't changed at all in 50 years.

Some other things haven't changed since then, either.


The story made the Genovese murder front-page news around the world. People began wondering aloud how society had fallen so far, and letters to the editors at various newspapers blamed everything from television to the "women's-lib movement."


Hmmmm... it did happen only a month after the Beatles' first appearances on the Ed Sullivan show. Damn hippies.
 
2014-02-16 06:56:33 PM
That's not what I heard.
 
2014-02-16 06:56:41 PM
img.fark.net

Monsignor: And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
Murphy: Aye.
 
2014-02-16 06:57:08 PM

TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.


I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.
 
2014-02-16 06:57:42 PM
As disturbing as the Genovese murder was, I'm more bothered by the death of Wang Yue.
 
2014-02-16 07:00:50 PM
Personally, I believe the police pushed the story of uncaring neighbors to cover up their own incompetence for failing to respond.
 
2014-02-16 07:03:08 PM
The McManus brothers are gonna be pissed
 
2014-02-16 07:04:59 PM

DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.


I have no problem at all with your ownership.  NY State, however, mandates a year in jail for this transgression (supposedly).
 
2014-02-16 07:09:26 PM

DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.


Responsible Gun Owner© right here, people.
 
2014-02-16 07:12:31 PM

TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.

I have no problem at all with your ownership.  NY State, however, mandates a year in jail for this transgression (supposedly).


Sorry, "City of NY."
 
2014-02-16 07:14:41 PM

OgreMagi: Personally, I believe the police pushed the story of uncaring neighbors to cover up their own incompetence for failing to respond.


That's exactly what happened. A little digging by the New York press would have uncovered that.

But this story is just another example of how the initial reports, no matter how wrong, become the accepted facts. The "uncaring neighbors" story has been debunked numerous times. But most people who have heard Kitty Genovese are convinced its true.
 
2014-02-16 07:15:54 PM

TheHighlandHowler: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.

I have no problem at all with your ownership.  NY State, however, mandates a year in jail for this transgression (supposedly).

Sorry, "City of NY."


This is where a woman was acquitted of killing her police officer husband where it was proved that he was a long time abuser but then given 5 years for possessing and using (one of her husband's) guns.
 
2014-02-16 07:17:36 PM
Everything?

So she was actually a South African Indian, with a wooden leg, working as a translator for a publishing house, and married to an Irish truck driver?  Wow.
 
2014-02-16 07:24:27 PM
Unpossible.  I know nothing about her at all for it to be wrong.
 
2014-02-16 07:31:45 PM

FrancoFile: Everything?

So she was actually a South African Indian, with a wooden leg, working as a translator for a publishing house, and married to an Irish truck driver?  Wow.


www.albinoblacksheep.com

Everything you know is wrong
 
2014-02-16 07:32:24 PM
I did not know that she was a lesbian. Apparently that was a taboo thing to report in 1964.
 
2014-02-16 07:32:32 PM
The only wrong thing about the Kitty Genovese story is that anyone still believes the long-debunked mythos that "38 people stood and watched the whole thing and did nothing." Most people--certainly anyone in criminology and sociology--knows that the "38 people" story is conflated from the fact that 38 total people saw or heard something on that night, that some or all of them SAID they could have done "something" or "could have done more"; that at least one person yelled out the window to Genovese's attacker but did not confront him; that at least one person called the police but it was unclear who; and that the entire story was spun by subsequent journalists and social do-gooders as a heinous example of how disconnected and apathetic urban society had become. But the truth has always been out there.

But if you rely on pop culture for your history instead of, you know, actual history books, then what you'll get is the "38 people watched Kitty Genovese die and did nothing," instead of the facts, and serve you right.
 
2014-02-16 07:32:33 PM
tl;dr
 
2014-02-16 07:38:38 PM

OgreMagi: Personally, I believe the police pushed the story of uncaring neighbors to cover up their own incompetence for failing to respond.


QFT.
 
2014-02-16 07:40:35 PM
back to back they faced each other
drew their swords......
 
2014-02-16 07:46:51 PM

tripleseven: Every couple of years, there's another "debunking" story.

CSB time

I used to live on Austin Street, not far from where this happened.


Cool Factoid, Bro.
 
2014-02-16 07:51:25 PM
profileimages.torn.com

Does not approve
 
2014-02-16 07:52:12 PM

ChuckyV: [profileimages.torn.com image 600x799]

Does not approve


He rarely does.
 
2014-02-16 07:55:08 PM
So Rorshack wasn't her dry cleaner?
 
2014-02-16 07:56:45 PM

Gyrfalcon: Most people--certainly anyone in criminology and sociology


Yeah, that covers just about everyone.

FWIW, I've heard plenty of people bring up Kitty Genovese when trying to make a point about the callousness of humanity, or what a shiathole New York City is, or any number of other pet peeves they're biatching about at the time.
 
2014-02-16 08:17:53 PM

ChuckyV: [profileimages.torn.com image 600x799]

Does not approve


This!
 
2014-02-16 08:21:16 PM
when The New York Times erroneously reported that 38 of her neighbors had seen the attack and watched it unfold without calling for help.
The Times piece was followed by a story in Life magazine


www.washingtonpost.com

STFU
 
2014-02-16 08:32:49 PM
So nothing is wrong? Cool.
 
2014-02-16 08:33:16 PM

DrPainMD: TheHighlandHowler: DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.

Not in NYC if you're not connected.

I don't live in NY, but you assume that I would let the law interfere with my ownership of guns. You would be wrong.


Not sure what the gun is good for then. If you use it, you're in jail. If you flash it at someone, you're in jail. If someone reports you, you're in jail. If it falls out of your pocket, you're in jail. If a cop catches you with it, you're full of bullets and dead or in jail after your hospital stay.  Seriously, you don't fark with the NYPD when it comes to guns. They have a reputation to maintain.
 
2014-02-16 08:42:23 PM

RatMaster999: So, it was wrong, but not wrong enough to change the essential message of the original story.

Gotcha.


seems to me some girl gets beat up and I see her staggering outside, I would probably at least go out and make sure she's alright, especially since the they also saw the bad guy run away.  At least speaking for myself, it's the minimum I would have done.  Somebody would have seen she was stabbed and called an ambulance instead.

And of course, if she had not been alone, it's unlikely the bad guy would have risked returning.

So yeah, the neighbors get a pass for not sitting idly while she was getting attacked.  They do not get a pass for not getting out of their arses and going outside to check on her.
 
2014-02-16 08:51:27 PM
Yesterday afternoon at the highway exit ramp, I was waiting to turn left.  A woman got out of the car next to me in the right-turn lane, crying, and started walking down the road.  The driver of the car (I assume boyfriend/husband), turned right, rolled the window down, and pulled up next to her.  She kept walking, then crossed 4 lanes of traffic to get away from the car, then started walking back the other way.  He drove down, pulled a u-turn, and came back to her again.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but I considered calling the cops and then decided against it.  No signs of violence or other coercion, and by the time they responded who knows where the two of them would be.

/NSCSB
 
2014-02-16 08:58:14 PM
 
2014-02-16 08:58:21 PM
was she the 'welfare queen' Saint Ronny talked about?
 
2014-02-16 09:32:53 PM
Everything I know is wrong?  So these guys weren't there?

i141.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-16 09:52:49 PM

DrPainMD: This is why I paid for firearms training and a CC permit for my wife.


Yes, because letting one incident change your life is sane.
 
2014-02-16 09:53:17 PM

wildcardjack: FrancoFile: Everything?

So she was actually a South African Indian, with a wooden leg, working as a translator for a publishing house, and married to an Irish truck driver?  Wow.

[www.albinoblacksheep.com image 850x478]

Everything you know is wrong


Everything you know is wrong!
 
2014-02-16 09:54:12 PM

nmrsnr: Was she raped and killed?

Then I at least know something correct about her.


She was killed, then raped. You have the order all wrong.

The killer also escaped custody and went on a 2 day rampage in 1968, which isn't detailed in Wikipedia.
 
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