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(NYPost)   I SAID, YOU HAVE CANC-- oh, fark it, transfer him to some other hospital   (nypost.com) divider line 52
    More: Fail, Alfred Weinrib, the deaf man, Commack, brooklyn federal court  
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8724 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2014 at 3:41 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-16 03:45:43 PM
FTA: "A cancer-stricken deaf man died without ever knowing his diagnosis after three Long Island medical facilities failed to get him sign-language interpreters - for seven months, his family charges "

The death panels have begun.
 
2014-02-16 03:49:01 PM
Why is this in the business tab?
 
2014-02-16 03:49:39 PM
No one had a pen and paper?
 
2014-02-16 03:59:38 PM
So I take it his family only got involved after he died and a law$uit became possible?
 
2014-02-16 04:10:05 PM

Panty Sniffer: Why is this in the business tab?


He's looking for a partner for a business project.
 
2014-02-16 04:34:05 PM

Pardon Me Sultan: So I take it his family only got involved after he died and a law$uit became possible?


according to the article the kids are also deaf and no facility provided interpreters for them either to better understand what was going on.
 
2014-02-16 04:57:26 PM

Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?


Our top story tonight, deaf people can't read.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-16 05:04:50 PM

Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?


Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.
 
2014-02-16 05:15:25 PM

dfacto: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.


Documents he undoubtedly signed.
 
2014-02-16 05:16:59 PM

dfacto: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.


You do not get documentation when you are discharged.  Or, at least, I never have.  Which is very annoying when you're arguing with your insurance company later.

/in and out of hospitals during cancer treatment
//doctors talk to each other, not to patients
 
2014-02-16 05:24:37 PM

dfacto: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.


Keep in mind one very important detail.  This is the NY Post.

I guarantee you at least some part of the story is a) inaccurate, b) left out, or c) both.
 
2014-02-16 05:35:25 PM

Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?


End of thread.
 
2014-02-16 06:03:51 PM
What prevented the family from finding interpreters on their own? Their dad was having serious medical issues that they couldn't understand, and TFA makes it sound like they were dragging their heels about that just as bad as the hospitals were.
 
2014-02-16 06:04:40 PM
And not only that, the Regional Gang Task Force was alerted when he threatened hospital staff with frenzied hand gestures.
 
2014-02-16 06:06:47 PM
They should have gotten the guy from Nelson Mandela's memorial service.
 
2014-02-16 06:19:55 PM
Tom Perkins supports this.
 
2014-02-16 06:19:59 PM

stuhayes2010: Documents he undoubtedly signed.


Yes, but the hospital didn't have an interpreter to read the signs

/hear what I did there?
 
2014-02-16 06:22:01 PM
So we've covered:

1) no pen?
2) family couldn't come up with their own interpreter?

And I'll add

3) this was the first time they ever ran into needing interpretation for a doctor?

I call shenanigans.
 
2014-02-16 06:24:27 PM

Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?


Maybe not one knew how to write in braille.
 
2014-02-16 06:26:00 PM

Panty Sniffer: They should have gotten the guy from Nelson Mandela's memorial service.


"I'm sorry sir, you have purple monkey dishwasher."
 
2014-02-16 06:28:17 PM
With meaningful use I think they have to give you a copy within 3 days of your request. Thanks Obama!
 
2014-02-16 07:04:04 PM

AngryDragon: FTA: "A cancer-stricken deaf man died without ever knowing his diagnosis after three Long Island medical facilities failed to get him sign-language interpreters - for seven months, his family charges "

The death panels have begun.


Oh shut up. This is what we get from for-profit healthcare, insurance companies, and lawyers.

What you're spouting is just pants-on-head derp.
 
2014-02-16 07:07:43 PM
American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.
 
2014-02-16 07:34:47 PM

Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?


My thought exactly. FFS the guy was a printer, he had to be literate.

Guillotines: not just for the rich & famous anymore.
 
2014-02-16 07:39:24 PM

antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.


TADA


Gyrfalcon: So we've covered:

1) no pen?
2) family couldn't come up with their own interpreter?

And I'll add

3) this was the first time they ever ran into needing interpretation for a doctor?

I call shenanigans.


The really absurd part is that there is no way in the UNIVERSE that deaf people have had to communicate in the rest of the world.

One side, or the other, or both are full of shiat here.
 
2014-02-16 07:42:34 PM

The One True TheDavid: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

My thought exactly. FFS the guy was a printer, he had to be literate.

Guillotines: not just for the rich & famous anymore.


AND WROTE for a deaf newspaper ....
PRETTY FARKING CERTAIN that the national deaf newspaper in the US is written in ENGLISH ...

I dont even need to look it up.
I would bet tons of money and give you odds.
 
2014-02-16 07:45:25 PM
 
2014-02-16 07:47:47 PM
Family's lawyer is not very slimy.

This lawsuit will never fly.
 
2014-02-16 07:50:33 PM

antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.


Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.
 
2014-02-16 07:53:49 PM

Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.


You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...
 
2014-02-16 07:58:27 PM

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: dfacto: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.

You do not get documentation when you are discharged.  Or, at least, I never have.  Which is very annoying when you're arguing with your insurance company later.

/in and out of hospitals during cancer treatment
//doctors talk to each other, not to patients


Hospitals in the Seattle area always give documentation, including diagnoses, filled up info, and other instructions with discharge. What the hell is up with the rest of the country?
 
2014-02-16 08:06:16 PM

Panty Sniffer: Why is this in the business tab?


Because hospitals are for profit businesses and you better dump your shares Monday morning.
 
2014-02-16 08:13:03 PM

doglover: Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.

You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...


Thanks for clearing that up for me, so that leaves the obvious conclsion everyone else in the room drew from what I said ... elderly folks in the final stages of life often lose the ability to read. Basic communication is an obligation, not a frill.

I envy your simple world.
 
2014-02-16 08:18:41 PM

doglover: Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.

You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.


Obviously going deaf will not strip a persons ability to read. However, some people who are born deaf or lose hearing before learning to read. T

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...

Nope. Dead wrong. The hospital is legally required to provide effective communication for all patients. For hospitals, this means providing an interpreter for any important communication with a deaf patient.
 
2014-02-16 08:19:09 PM

doglover: Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.

You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...


CitationNeeded.jpg

I'm pretty sure interpretation isn't something they can charge for.
 
2014-02-16 08:19:42 PM
/reads article

Yeah...that's going to settle PDQ.  Do those hospitals want the bad publicity?
 
2014-02-16 08:28:38 PM
 
2014-02-16 09:19:14 PM
When I first started to read that three LI hospitals were involved, my first thought was that one of them must be the hellhole my mother was taken to after a fall. Imagine my surprise when it wasn't.

SecretAgentWoman: The deaf family never, ever, was in need of interpreter services before I'm sure and had no clue how to get help on their own when the hospital refused to help, I'm sure.


I'm not sure if you've dealt much with hospitals, but if you're not in a good place it can be hell to reach the actual doctor(s) who are supposed to be coordinating care, and it can be especially bad if you're dealing with doctors from multiple departments. It's not at all like making a regular trip to the doctor's office. I guaran-damn-tee you that no doctor is going to go out of their way to show up during the time you've scheduled an appointment with a WNYDAS interpreter, who presumably gets paid by the hour.

And while this man's case may not have needed consultatation on short notice, there are plenty of other circumstances where that would hold true, and that's why the hospital itself has the legal obligation to provide interpreters on request.
 
2014-02-16 09:38:43 PM
The family is suing?  Where the fark was the family when he was going to these hospitals?  No one could come along and sign for him?  Oh wait, I guess no one in the family can sign which means that no one in the family had an inkling to what the guy was saying to them his entire life? I feel for the guy to a point.  Hell, he was 82 years old and at that age the chances of surviving are pretty grim.  Somehow I get the feeling that crossing out "Doing the Radio City Rockets in a hut tub" from his bucket list just wasn't going to happen anyway.
 
2014-02-16 10:29:35 PM

boinkingbill: The family is suing?  Where the fark was the family when he was going to these hospitals?  No one could come along and sign for him?  Oh wait, I guess no one in the family can sign which means that no one in the family had an inkling to what the guy was saying to them his entire life? I feel for the guy to a point.  Hell, he was 82 years old and at that age the chances of surviving are pretty grim.  Somehow I get the feeling that crossing out "Doing the Radio City Rockets in a hut tub" from his bucket list just wasn't going to happen anyway.


Reading comprehension fail? DNRTFA?

FTA:
And a nurse at Good Samaritan Hospital in West Islip, where Weinrib was also treated, laughed when the family showed her a sign in the facility encouraging deaf patients to request interpreters, according to court papers ...Videophones, which should have helped Weinrib communicate, were broken, his kids - who are also deaf - claim.

But by all means, continue the bootstrappy  blame the victims show.
 
2014-02-17 12:26:28 AM

Medic Zero: doglover: Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.

You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...

CitationNeeded.jpg

I'm pretty sure interpretation isn't something they can charge for.


The hospital was definitely in the wrong. That said, the family should not have been waiting around for them to provide interpreter assistance if it wasn't forthcoming. If the hospital was failing in its duty, provide what you need, keep the receipts and sue for damages later. Because this is something the hospital's attorney is going to bring up at the settlement conference, I have no doubt.
 
2014-02-17 03:42:07 AM

Medic Zero: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: dfacto: Farks_alot: No one had a pen and paper?

Or a printer?  Diagnoses come with documentation, documentation states the disease. You can get the documentation, though you should get it automatically when you are discharged.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but since I'm on Fark I sure as hell will: This smells like familial neglect and bullshiat.

You do not get documentation when you are discharged.  Or, at least, I never have.  Which is very annoying when you're arguing with your insurance company later.

/in and out of hospitals during cancer treatment
//doctors talk to each other, not to patients

Hospitals in the Seattle area always give documentation, including diagnoses, filled up info, and other instructions with discharge. What the hell is up with the rest of the country?


I was treated in Seattle.  The only thing I got was instructions for my medication, a sheet of approved food to eat during recovery, and a list of phone numbers to call if anything went wrong.  That's it.  Nothing else.  Nothing about my surgeries, nada.

So yeah, the issue is throughout the entire country, Seattle isn't immune.
 
2014-02-17 05:13:59 AM
im not seeing that much outrage

1. he was 82 at the start of it and went for treatment after extreme pain had begun (thats likely late)
(not a doctor) but it sounds as if the matter was already advanced
(at that point the main option is that hes gonna die)

with the treatment that he did receive' he lasted another 2 years
(not shocking at all -
the question there is, was the treatment received appropriate (whether he or family understood or not)
in which case their only decision would be to accept or deny service

2. nurse  laughing at request for interpeter
get im for that one

3. no one understood risks and options?
over the course of 2 years?

/ yes there may be some issues - but i dont believe at the level of outrage offered in the article
 
2014-02-17 06:05:53 AM
Goddam lawyers and greedy offspring.
 
2014-02-17 06:54:23 AM

Agent Smiths Laugh: AngryDragon: FTA: "A cancer-stricken deaf man died without ever knowing his diagnosis after three Long Island medical facilities failed to get him sign-language interpreters - for seven months, his family charges "

The death panels have begun.

Oh shut up. This is what we get from for-profit healthcare, insurance companies, and lawyers.

What you're spouting is just pants-on-head derp.


Dude.  It's a joke.  Smoke a bowl.
 
2014-02-17 07:01:48 AM

bindlestiff2600: im not seeing that much outrage

1. he was 82 at the start of it and went for treatment after extreme pain had begun (thats likely late)
(not a doctor) but it sounds as if the matter was already advanced
(at that point the main option is that hes gonna die)

with the treatment that he did receive' he lasted another 2 years
(not shocking at all -
the question there is, was the treatment received appropriate (whether he or family understood or not)
in which case their only decision would be to accept or deny service

2. nurse  laughing at request for interpeter
get im for that one

3. no one understood risks and options?
over the course of 2 years?

/ yes there may be some issues - but i dont believe at the level of outrage offered in the article


There is this little tidbit:
Alfred Weinrib, 82, even attempted suicide after nurses at one geriatric rehab facility ignored his desperate pleas for help getting to the bathroom because they couldn't understand him, his children claim in a Brooklyn federal court lawsuit.

And this from the NY patients bill of rights:
As a patient in a hospital in New York State, you have the right, consistent with law, to:
(1) Understand and use these rights. If for any reason you do not understand or you need help, the hospital MUST provide assistance, including an interpreter


The suit isn't about the cancer, its about the denial of service and rights.

/And some  clarification on thedate . April would refer to April 2013 as April 2014 has not yet occurred. So he lasted all of 7 months -- as the article said.
 
2014-02-17 10:08:25 AM

antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.


whyyyyyyyyyy can't they read? that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard, not you, but that matter. why are they willfully ignorant?
 
2014-02-17 12:36:07 PM

Panatheist: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

whyyyyyyyyyy can't they read? that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard, not you, but that matter. why are they willfully ignorant?


I'm not really sure how this happens, but my best guess is that it is rarely a willful thing. Two factors could be the separateness of the deaf community from the culture at large, and segregated education.
 
2014-02-17 01:21:31 PM

Gyrfalcon: Medic Zero: doglover: Greylight: antisocialworker: American Sign Language =/= English. Many deaf people cannot read. Also, if the facts are reported accurately (a big "if"), the hospitals will probably be hearing from the Department of Justice. Hospitals are legally required to provide effective communication, and the DOJ has been goingafter institutions that don't use an interpreter.

Though in this case the gentlemen was a printer, and could at one time read well. I do think there was a basic failure in not providing any interpretive services for the man and his family over the course of his passing. Given all he gave to the deaf community I can see how upset the family would be that throughout that difficult time his requests for reasonable accommodations were being discarded along with his dignity during his final days as unnessasarry. While I think the article got the angle wrong, there is a big business rolls over the little guy when he is at his most vulnerable aspect to this story though it is overstated so badly one can't get to the end of the article without wondering if he could still read.

You don't lose reading if you go deaf. Hell, you don't even lose reading if you go blind.

Also, hospitals don't provide anything. They sell it. Family shoulda acted as or hired their own interpreter. An asprin is $100 in the ER. Imagine their interpreter's rates...

CitationNeeded.jpg

I'm pretty sure interpretation isn't something they can charge for.

The hospital was definitely in the wrong. That said, the family should not have been waiting around for them to provide interpreter assistance if it wasn't forthcoming. If the hospital was failing in its duty, provide what you need, keep the receipts and sue for damages later. Because this is something the hospital's attorney is going to bring up at the settlement conference, I have no doubt.


I doubt it will get to court, but if it does don't hold your breath waiting for the Hospital lawyers to to argue their inability to deliver dignified end of life health care was mitigated because the victim wasn't boot strappy enough.

What a strange idea that hospitals should have a right to operate even if they cannot do so within very clear regulations designed to protect an individuals rights.
 
2014-02-17 02:26:52 PM
Just did my hospital's yearly mandatory education on providing interpreters for patients with "LEP" - Limited English Proficiency, as they call it. (We could call it "not speaking the language spoken where you live", but that's another thread for another day.)
They specifically do NOT want us to just write things down for deaf patients. I do not know what the rationale is, but that is the policy. I can, however, speculate:
a) May slow down conversation
b) the health provider may be tempted to omit some information/details so as to not have to write out EVERY SINGLE WORD they would normally speak
c) the deaf patient may not be able to speak clearly.
 
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