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(Daily Mail)   Old and busted: Bird whacking wind turbines. New hotness: Bird scorching solar farms   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 117
    More: Scary, solar farms, BrightSource Energy, Solar Energy Industries Association, NRG Energy, Ivanpah Solar, native wildlife, judicial panel  
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8094 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2014 at 3:13 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-16 04:24:55 PM
the birds were singing...making a song like sound
the birds were singeing...burning like in hell

i had a stroke and spell better then these guys!!!
 
2014-02-16 04:30:00 PM

jvl: Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife


The pollution from the coal is killing everyone.
 
2014-02-16 04:30:54 PM

OregonVet: I know someone that is vehemently opposed to wind farms based on his bird watching experience. Staunch gay democrat too. So there must be something to it.


Possibly but I know gay leftists that are also over reactionary, anti-environmental basket cases or idiots, too, especially the ones that have been over-wowed by nuclear power. It's not hard to find an aggressively moronic left winger, they're just not so common as to make it a stereotype, like some other factions I could think of...
 
2014-02-16 04:34:55 PM
This has nothing to do with anything, but as a recent transplant to the Calif high desert (about two hours drive from this place) while there are birds that live in and pass through the desert, they're nowhere near the numbers I ever saw living anywhere else. I really can't think of anything humans do on this large a scale that wouldn't harm some life, so I'm ok with this.

/As long as it's not in my backyard
 
2014-02-16 04:35:27 PM
Birds die. Get over it.

Some birds don`t. That`s evolution, they`ll get over it.

Dip, recover, healthier. Sorted.

Non-problem is a non-problem.

Any birds that don`t move from scorching, burning, death deserve what they get.

What they get is dead and the rest of the flock not going back there.
 
2014-02-16 04:36:19 PM
Do what now?
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-16 04:37:52 PM

Slartibartfaster: jvl: Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife

The pollution from the coal is killing everyone.


Wow, everyone?

Overstate much?
 
2014-02-16 04:39:21 PM

nytmare: Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for... for just such an emergency.


Goddamnit. I read it in his voice too and now I can't stop giggling.
 
2014-02-16 04:40:33 PM
Also, dozens does not compare to the the greatest killer of small birds.

LarryDan43 got it.

Felis. The housecat.

Anyone who cares about this sort of thing would be much, much, much more angry about cats.
 
2014-02-16 04:43:57 PM

nytmare: Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for... for just such an emergency.


Bravo. Well played.
 
2014-02-16 04:54:23 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-16 04:55:50 PM

Mega Steve: More birds die from getting sucked into jet engines, but I don't hear them crying about that


Yeah, they're dead, so they can't cry.  Another problem solved.

Also, per the article, some people from the Western Watershed (or something) are pissed off about this operation.  I've looked at the pictures again, what water are they talking about?  Is it in some shed?  That's like the Protectors of the Arctic Ice Pack getting huffy over this.
 
2014-02-16 04:56:48 PM

here to help: The more you eat the more you fart: Proof you just cant please some motherfarkers.

Drill oil wells? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Fracking for natural gas? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Build a renewable energy solar power plant? They biatch a few blackbirds got scorched.


Stfu. Unless you expect everyone to go back to the stone age, we will need energy in some form from somwehere.

You got your solar power station instead of fossil fuel-powered plant. Zip it.

As I pointed out it is highly unlikely true environmentalists are the ones doing the squawking here.

I've told this story here before but it again fits. In the old small town/rural area I used to live (and it's actually happening around here too) there were a bunch of old NIMBY clowns and hard line, lockstep talking point conservatards whinging about a massive wind farm that was being proposed in sparsely populated area. For years it was "DURRR... RESEARCH SAYS IT WILL MAKE MY BABBY A SERIAL KILLER AND GIVE ME THE BRAIN CANCERZ!!!" or "IZ TOO EXPENSIVEZ... MORE OILZ!!!" or "IZ UGLY!! DO NOT WANT!!!". Well obviously that's all pretty retarded so the project kept moving forward. Well these selfish dumbf*cks scrounged up a bunch of money (likely for oil goons) and got some "environmental" studies done to find out the impact of the wind farm which was already being built and had already had a TON of money spent on it.

So these people... who had never really given a flying fart about any creature except themselves in their entire lives... found out through these studies there was a certain kind of frog that lived near the site. It was a somewhat unique breed and not particularly endangered but the "studies" found that MAYBE the frogs natural habitat would be disturbed by the project. WEEEELLLLL then the wailing about the poor little f*cking frogs started up, work on the farm was halted, millions of (TAX) dollars had to be spent to find out whether there was merit to the claim and it just made an entire mess of everything benefiting quite literally NO ONE except the fossil fuel industry and even then I can't see how it would have made any significant impact on their bottom line anyway.

So that sh*t is still being debated and tons of money is being wasted and it will likely turn out that everything was fine in the first place and the poor little froggies will indeed survive despite the new turbines.

It is one of the new conservative shill tactics. The left have been so successful at convincing the government and society to do the right thing that now the cons are using faux concern over the environment, racism, poverty, etc to get their way. Except when THEY put it forth it is always about something tiny, inconsequential, wrong or completely fooking retarded and the end result of their nonsense makes things a MILLION times worse in ALL of those situations despite their crowing otherwise.

It's like the whole "I'm not a racist!!! YOU'RE THE RACIST FOR POINTING OUT MY RACISM!!! USING THE N WORD AND HARASSING MEXICANS IS MY CULTURE YOU BIGOT!!!"

F*ckheads.


SUMMARY for wall of text:

Libtards fight a project that they don't like using studies, regulations, or media campaigns = WE ARE AWESOME!
Conservatards fight a project that they don't like using the same studies, regulations, or media campaigns = STOP COPYING US!
 
2014-02-16 04:57:34 PM

brantgoose: Agent Smiths Laugh: InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.

Yes, yes they are.

Some of them actually believe that story too.

And another you'd expect is exactly one Y chromosome for all of the unclean animals. With humans, you would expect no more than four, assuming that Mrs. Noah committed adultery and Shem, Japeth and Ham all had a different Father besides Noah. But that, apparently, would have been a greater taboo than incest for 6,000 years. The Bible doesn't say that the human race is descended from an adulteress.

It says we are all inbred from Cain, possiblly Abel, Enoch and their sisters. The only way around this is to assume that God made Adam and Eve as the ancestors of the Jews, but that there were plenty of people (cave men) around to interbreed with them so that they didn't become hopelessly polydactyl and moronic.

I think creationists cleverly strain out gnats from their wine and then swallow camels and even great blue whales of credulity. The facts do not support creationism in any field of science from astronomy and cosmology to biology, genetics and microbiology.

In order for there to be scores of Y chromosomes with uncountable mutations, evolution would have to exist and work at super-speed instead of the world being billions of years old with evolution working one nucleotide a year for billions of years. This is absurd.

To avoid the issue of speciation, creationists invented "kinds" based on the Biblical word. But these kinds would have to evolve at rocket speeds to produce thousands of species each of rats, bats, sparrows, etc.

Your quibbles prove nothing. The "facts" you are trying to preserve are rendered even more improbable by the cognitive dissonance that allows you to believe in super-rapid evolution but not the slow kind because the book you believe is true is a couple of thousand years old, while the world it purports to explain is billions of years old.

Having your cake and eating it is pecu ...


Hey, pass the bong!
 
2014-02-16 04:58:04 PM
i107.photobucket.com

Bon appétit!
 
2014-02-16 04:59:36 PM
The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.
 
2014-02-16 05:01:45 PM
Build a dome over it to keep the birds out.

Jeez. Do I have to think of everything?
 
jvl
2014-02-16 05:02:16 PM

unyon: jvl: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.

No, it just destroys the habitat capable of sustaining it in the first place.  Either way- no birds.  So I fail to see your point.


And if we had a shortage of bird habitat, or if the mine was in a particularly unique ecosystem, that would be a problem and you'd have a point.
 
2014-02-16 05:02:37 PM

rkiller1: The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.


dcairns.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-16 05:05:40 PM

InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.


If they were in bread, we'd have dinner ready!
 
2014-02-16 05:07:00 PM

dready zim: Slartibartfaster: jvl: Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife

The pollution from the coal is killing everyone.

Wow, everyone?

Overstate much?


Now I'm going to die, too!  Damn you, coal!
 
2014-02-16 05:07:38 PM

optikeye: rkiller1: The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.

[dcairns.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]


Bravo!  That was the exact scene I was thinking of.
Nothing is obscure on Fark.
 
2014-02-16 05:08:25 PM
Every single form of power generation kills wildlife and pollutes the environment. It's just a question of how much and how badly. I read a lot of comments on that site and get the impression that too many people think some perfect form of energy generation exists somewhere somehow and the powers that be have just been too stupid or stubborn to use it exclusively. God, people are dumb.
 
2014-02-16 05:08:51 PM
brantgoose: I think creationists cleverly strain out gnats from their wine and then swallow camels and even great blue whales of credulity. The facts do not support creationism in any field of science from astronomy and cosmology to biology, genetics and microbiology.
 
Astronomy is the best one.  The simple realization that even creationists acknowledge today that the Sun is a star conflicts with Genesis 1:16--and we're just 16 lines in.

The doublethink these people show is absolutely amazing.  O'Brien would be proud.

You speak the truth about entropy and how everything is doomed to failure, which few people really want to admit.
 
2014-02-16 05:13:02 PM

StopLurkListen: While any unneccessary death of wildlife is bad and should be avoided, windows and cats kill birds by the millions. If we really care, we should do something about those.


Cue the bird enthusiasts going on and on about cats.
 
jvl
2014-02-16 05:14:18 PM

kazikian: Every single form of power generation kills wildlife and pollutes the environment. It's just a question of how much and how badly. I read a lot of comments on that site and get the impression that too many people think some perfect form of energy generation exists somewhere somehow and the powers that be have just been too stupid or stubborn to use it exclusively. God, people are dumb.


You're completely right that every form of power generation has downsides.

In this case, it's probably way overblown: migrating birds smack into high rises and die by the millions every year. I doubt this is much different. There aren't a lot of high-flying birds living in Ivanapah, so it's probably just migrants passing through.

Windmills are different. Those damn things are nasty to raptors. Hopefully they'll fix that.
 
2014-02-16 05:14:58 PM

kazikian: Every single form of power generation kills wildlife and pollutes the environment. It's just a question of how much and how badly. I read a lot of comments on that site and get the impression that too many people think some perfect form of energy generation exists somewhere somehow and the powers that be have just been too stupid or stubborn to use it exclusively. God, people are dumb.


The Sun pollutes Earth, too.  Its light polluted this planet with complex self-replicating hydrocarbons.  Those self-replicating hydrocarbons were responsible for severe client change.  They changed the entire planet's atmosphere from methane to nitrogen-oxygen, and created vast lakes of water with dissolved sodium chloride.
 
2014-02-16 05:16:03 PM

StopLurkListen: Given half a chance, a wind turbine or solar power plant would eat you and your family too. You can't reason with them. They are unstoppable.

This message brought to you by Koch Brothers and tasty, tasty coal(tm). Try some on toast today!

[api.ning.com image 696x544]


imgs.xkcd.com
 
jvl
2014-02-16 05:16:11 PM

Cerebral Ballsy: Cue the bird enthusiasts going on and on about cats.


Cue the cat enthusiasts going on and on about how it's perfectly reasonable to let their animals trespass on other peoples property, cause damage, spread diseases, and kill other animals including pets because reasons.
 
2014-02-16 05:16:53 PM

Slartibartfaster: jvl: Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife

The pollution from the coal is killing everyone.


Well someone hates coal miners! Anti-coal!

/not serious
 
2014-02-16 05:21:59 PM
I makes me laugh that this is a top story on Foxnews. I think it must be the first time ever they ran a story on the side of ecology.

Of course, the fact that it's anti-solar power might have something to do with it. Fair and balanced my ass.
 
2014-02-16 05:24:22 PM

jvl: kazikian: Every single form of power generation kills wildlife and pollutes the environment. It's just a question of how much and how badly. I read a lot of comments on that site and get the impression that too many people think some perfect form of energy generation exists somewhere somehow and the powers that be have just been too stupid or stubborn to use it exclusively. God, people are dumb.

You're completely right that every form of power generation has downsides.

In this case, it's probably way overblown: migrating birds smack into high rises and die by the millions every year. I doubt this is much different. There aren't a lot of high-flying birds living in Ivanapah, so it's probably just migrants passing through.

Windmills are different. Those damn things are nasty to raptors. Hopefully they'll fix that.


Modern wind turbine design has 200+ feet single column towers. There's no place to land except the very top next to the axle where the relative speed of the turbine blades are slow. That alone helps avoid a lot of bird deaths.
 
2014-02-16 05:25:37 PM
Install breading sprayers.
 
2014-02-16 05:25:58 PM

Benjimin_Dover: Libtards fight a project that they don't like using studies, regulations, or media campaigns = WE ARE AWESOME!
Conservatards fight a project that they don't like using the same studies, regulations, or media campaigns = STOP COPYING US!


I'm sure that's how you view it, Sparkles.

More like sane people with a bit of intelligence, forethought, common sense and education who give a f*ck about something beyond their own personal gain use due diligence to weigh the pros and cons of major policies and activities to do what's best for society as a whole and then work together to enact positive change in the world = Hey... look at us being compassionate human beings ensuring the future of our species and planet isn't a total hellhole deathpit f*ck up... but we can still do better so let's get back to work.

Obnoxiously wealthy assholes who want to steal every last penny from every man woman and child on the planet no matter how horrendously it affects everyone else convince selfish, ignorant dullards to do their dirty work for them against those dullards best interests = *facepalm*

Congratulations. You're self defeating moron. I'm sure you are quite proud of yourself about it too.
 
2014-02-16 05:42:53 PM
Argon Oil has already worked out how to use birds to solve the nation's energy needs. Linky linky
 
2014-02-16 05:46:59 PM

here to help: people with a bit of intelligence, forethought, common sense and education who give a f*ck about something beyond their own personal gain


And here I thought Adam Smith had some intelligence, forethought, common sense and eduction, that acting in you own self-interest was beneficial to society.
 
2014-02-16 05:53:05 PM

rkiller1: The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.


upload.wikimedia.org

Would like to have a word with you.
 
2014-02-16 05:55:43 PM

here to help: It is one of the new conservative shill tactics.


/shill-like typing detected
 
2014-02-16 06:01:54 PM

juvandy: Although solar power is the way of the future, I don't think massive plants like this are the best way to capture it.  Not only do they scorch birds, but building the plant destroys a lot of habitat for relatively little gain, like a hydroelectric dam.

Why can't we just install solar panels on every rooftop of every building?  It's noninvasive in comparison, and gives us plenty of usable land coverage.  The only reason I can think is that it takes the power generating out of the hands of the power companies...


That and the price point.  I think over the next decade with advances in solar tech, materials used for panels, durability and reducing their profile-ugliness factor that will be the case.  But more to support your point there are some areas where solar on homes is prevalent and there are disputes on selling power back to the grid or being charged for supplying your own, etc.

I'd say 10 years and all disputes between power companies and customers will be worked out.  And then it is just a matter of people affording the upfront cost of installations.
 
2014-02-16 06:04:38 PM

traylor: rkiller1: The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 316x477]

Would like to have a word with you.


If that bird had learned to fly away on its own, instead of counting on others to give it a ride along, it might have survived.
 
2014-02-16 06:24:28 PM

show me: traylor: rkiller1: The US has and estimated 10 billion birds.  I don't think we'll run out.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 316x477]

Would like to have a word with you.

If that bird had learned to fly away on its own, instead of counting on others to give it a ride along, it might have survived.


It might have survived if people hadn't been so ignorant about the environmental impacts of their actions.

Or do you say, that species that are too stupid to adopt to human behavior don't deserve to exist?
 
2014-02-16 06:31:29 PM
There's no pleasing these hippies.
 
2014-02-16 06:33:57 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

[img.fark.net image 615x410]


Coal plants are quickly being converted to natural gas, which is cheap and fairly low on the pollution scale compared to just about anything else.  The downside is our cheap natural gas is a byproduct of fraking, which has a bad reputation (possibly undeserved).
 
2014-02-16 06:35:57 PM

brimed03: PETA and their ilk don't count for spit


PETA is the Westboro Baptist Church of the animal and environment world.
 
2014-02-16 06:44:56 PM

brantgoose: Entropy. You can't escape it. But you can slow it down.

With fossil fuels you get pollution.

With nuclear power you get a different kind of pollution (heat from cooling towers and water pipes, radiation, occasionally a runaway China Syndrome or a nuclear weapons Ka-Boom!

With wind you slow the winds and kill the birds.

With solar you slow the winds, soak up the light and heat and roast the birds.

It's all entropy and the only impossible answer is a perpetual motion machine that does not generate any heat or waste. Lots of luck, chum-ps!

Every form of power is generated at the cost of a given amount of entropy. You can pump energy uphill, contrary to the crap that creationists and cranks talk, but this merely means that you are dumping more waste heat outside of the system or else sucking energy into the system from outside. The Law of Entropy is not to be violated, it can only be disguised or ignored by a crank.

The only way to escape entropy is to escape the system. Local entropy might decline when living organisms or machines turn some form of latent power into active work, but the only way to avoid the heat and waste is to dump it outside.

For centuries humans have been dumping their waste into the air and water or the soil and thus "eliminating" it. But this is not what really happens. It doesn't go away, it goes downstream. Where it makes the world nastier for other people, animals, plants, and machines.

Creationists are polemicists and apologists for a very primitive pre-scientific view of the world and this is the waste and heat into which they pull scientists and any reasonable, informed or rational person. They perpetuate the muck of ignorance and dwell happily in it like pigs.

It doesn't matter if you are a liberal or a conservative, a believer or an unbeliever, a denialist or a scientist, if you fail to recognize the Law of Entropy and do your best to fight it where and while you can. But you can't win this game, you can't break even, and you ca ...


Hey dude.  Just FYI, you are taking the thermodynamic mathematically measurable term of entropy, running it through a philosophical filter, and applying it incorrectly here. For example, if in a process, two types there are two types of outcomes, say... increased pressure and increased heat (such as in a steam engine), then the heat (even if it might be "wasted" is still considered enthalpy, not entropy.  Entropy sometimes gets confused with chaos, and that isn't really the case.  Entropy is sort of a catchall thermodynamic term that catches value that disappears from the system.  If you did a full thermodynamic balance of a system capturing EVERYTHING (even things that we might consider wastes or byproducts) and the equation still doesn't balance out.  i.e. What goes in > what comes out. Then the difference is entropy.  Entropy, to us, disappears.

It's important, because it goes to the crux of your argument that there is always entropy.  That is correct.  But it DOESN'T meant that there are always byproducts, co-products, or waste.  Those can be eliminated or controlled, it can just be very difficult to do.
 
2014-02-16 06:55:43 PM

traylor: Or do you say, that species that are too stupid to adopt to human behavior don't deserve to exist?


That depends on how you are using the word 'deserve' here.  Sheep that are stupid enough to run towards the wolves aren't going to exist.  Did they deserve the gift of life they were given, which was subsequently spent consuming resources that could have nourished smarter sheep and made the species stronger?  They got what they deserved (earned).
 
2014-02-16 07:00:29 PM
Another vote for nuclear
 
2014-02-16 07:02:37 PM

Gunboat: Another vote for nuclear


But, but, but China Syndrome and Three Mile Island!
 
2014-02-16 07:08:18 PM

dennysgod: StopLurkListen: Given half a chance, a wind turbine or solar power plant would eat you and your family too. You can't reason with them. They are unstoppable.

This message brought to you by Koch Brothers and tasty, tasty coal(tm). Try some on toast today!

[api.ning.com image 696x544]

[imgs.xkcd.com image 726x969]


Lol, that's farking funny. I haven't seen that one before.
 
2014-02-16 07:13:03 PM

rkiller1: But, but, but China Syndrome and Three Mile Island!


Even so, no birds died in either. :)

/seriously
 
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